From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #245 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, June 29 2003 Volume 12 : Number 245 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) ["FS Thomas" ] Television reissues ["Maximilian Lang" ] p*litics (if you don't want to read about 2k election again, delete now!) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: p*litics [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: p*litics ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: 40/70, several ffs [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Southern Baptists, from a refugee (was Re: p*litics) [Dolph Chaney ] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benic=E0ssim_Festival?= ["Marc Holden" Subject: RE: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf > Of Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:58 PM > To: something Shakespeare never said > Subject: Re: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) > > the nefarious Electoral College Would that be the self-same nefarious Electoral College that keeps the country's most populated states from being the sole guiding force in the nation's politics? Because if it is, then I can't see how that's a bad thing. > So if you favor > Candidate X from Party Not-A-Not-B, if you really want to further that > agenda...well, nothing you do in a presidential vote is going to affect > that > terribly. With the exception that, with enough of a voter turnout in elections you *might*, as a third party candidate, gather enough to get into the following debate. > Except for one key thing: the "religious" (i.e., fanatic) right has far > less > influence over the Democrats than over the Republicans. Yes, both parties > are completely in the pocket of corporate interests, etc., and that > sucks...but it's far less likely that an Ashcroft would have come from the > Democrats. Ever listen to a good Southern Baptist preacher? Pretty hard-leaning dems, and relatively racist. > And then do everything else the guy talks about - cuz I think he's right > there. And that should include a concerted effort to institute a truly > democratic voting system: scrap the Electoral College, put in place > something like Instant Runoff Voting, etc. I used to be very against the concept of the electoral college--the idea that the popular vote can somehow be de-railed by these so-called representatives who will cast their votes the way they *think* you will--until the Gore/Bush election. Before anyone sparks up their flamethrower, my change of heart didn't come from the fact that Florida fell the way it did, but rather after a long discussion with a friend of mine about the structure of the voting system in the country and the reasons we have a representational and not straight forward democracy. For the sake of protecting the interest of the lowly populated and smaller states, the electoral process is worth the hassle. - -ferris. (And as far as simpering over the 2000 election, he *did* win the popular vote (narrowest margin, 574), there would have been an allowed recount as long as it was a full-state recount (something the DNC refused), and thank God(s) Al Gore wasn't president on 9/11/01.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:57:10 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Television reissues http://www.marquee.demon.co.uk/news.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:19:21 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: p*litics (if you don't want to read about 2k election again, delete now!) Quoting FS Thomas : > > the nefarious Electoral College > > Would that be the self-same nefarious Electoral College that keeps the > country's most populated states from being the sole guiding force in the > nation's politics? Because if it is, then I can't see how that's a bad > thing. Because it gives One Person who happens to live in Nevada far more voting power than One Person who happens to live in New York. The senatorial system, giving each state two senators regardless of population, already (depending on your point of view) either (a) gives those folks overrepresentation, or (b) ensures that the interests of less-populated states are not railroaded. The Electoral College's overrepresentation of smaller, rural populations is one reason for Republican dominance, since for whatever reason, those populations vote Republican (the South and the West - and look at the regions from which every president in the last forty years has come from) - probably because the Dems are perceived as the party of the Northeastern elite. If you really want to believe that your vote (you're in Texas, right?) is worth less than Joe Smith's in North Dakota, fine. But I don't think that should be the case. > > > So if you favor > > Candidate X from Party Not-A-Not-B, if you really want to further that > > agenda...well, nothing you do in a presidential vote is going to > affect > > that > > terribly. > > With the exception that, with enough of a voter turnout in elections you > *might*, as a third party candidate, gather enough to get into the > following debate. Under current rules - designed to shut out third parties - yes. Far better to build the strength of those parties from the grassroots upward so they're dependent upon the permission of the Demopublicans to exist. > > Except for one key thing: the "religious" (i.e., fanatic) right has > far > > less > > influence over the Democrats than over the Republicans. Yes, both > parties > > are completely in the pocket of corporate interests, etc., and that > > sucks...but it's far less likely that an Ashcroft would have come from > the > > Democrats. > > Ever listen to a good Southern Baptist preacher? Pretty hard-leaning > dems, and relatively racist. True - but they're not going to be Democrats for long. The primary reason, historically, they're Democrats is because Lincoln was a Republican. But ever since (at least) Nixon's Southern Strategy, the south has been either becoming more Republican, or more of those Democrats are converting, or (most common) the Democrats have been drifting (drifting? Hell, running at full-tilt) rightward. Still, Southern Baptist preachers and their constituents are not the dominant demographic of the entire Democratic party...insofar as it still has one. > (And as far as simpering over the 2000 election, he *did* win the > popular vote (narrowest margin, 574), there would have been an allowed > recount as long as it was a full-state recount (something the DNC > refused), and thank God(s) Al Gore wasn't president on 9/11/01.) We really don't want to go there, do we? I'll just say (a) purge of voter rolls (b) "butterfly ballot" (not, in fact, designed by a Democrat - irrelevant if so - but an ex-Democrat who had joined the Republicans), and (c) strategic mistakes on the part of the Democrats re the recount - all don't mean the results were accurate. Reams of analysis suggests that, in fact, the will of Florida voters tilted Gore's way. And regardless, the will of the *people who actually voted nationwide* did so. Funny how, everywhere you look, there's Bush: which state has the most aggressive "felon"-purging policy, guaranteed to knock lots of black (i.e., Democratic) voters off the role, even if they only have the same *name* as felons? Florida...governed by Bush's brother. Which network early on called Florida for Bush, even though that was at that point by no means certain (probably influencing the remaining vote)? Why, the one with a Bush cousin making that call. And when the decision went to the Supreme Court, why there's Scalia, two of whose sons work for Bush-connected law firms; and Thomas (Clarence - not Ferris... ;-), whose wife worked for the Heritage Foundation planning a transition to the (not yet elected) Bush administration. Both should have recused themselves from the decision, since they clearly had interest in one side's prevailing. There's more - but already, Fegs are threatening to unsubscribe again. And I'm no fan of Al Gore - but the record of the Bushies on that score is not exactly cheerworthy either. Bad intelligence, bad follow-through, no budget to rebuild Afghanistan, cut troop benefits... Besides which, I hope you're not saying, "well, even if Bush does occupy the White House illegally, that's okay, since it's better that way." Yep, and Italian trains ran on time. (Ooops...narrowly avoiding that Godwin chap and his rule...) In the interests of not furthering *that* whole debate, let's maybe find some things we can agree on. The article Chris referred to contained the writer's reasoning for not bothering to vote. I say, basically, there are enough differences between the two main parties that voting is still useful, although far from ideal. You agree - otherwise, you wouldn't have written "thank God(s) Al Gore wasn't president on 9/11/01." I suspect you may also agree that, for whatever reasons, and with whatever potential solutions, the current system is far from representative, as it's supposed to be. You may also agree that that might be one factor causing lower voter turnout. I'm sure that, from your political perspective, you can name groups or issues that seem to have popular support that somehow don't get enacted because the people in charge don't favor them - even if I name different issues and groups, the situation seems the same from this point of view. And hey - the very fact that you're responding at least shows that you give a damn: that's a plus right there, no matter how much I might disagree w/your interpretations or perspective. ..Jeff, who should hurry up and order _Luxor_ so he's got something else to talk about... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: it's not your meat :: --Mr. Toad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:21:59 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: p*litics Oh well, it was good while it lasted...bleh. Anyone wanna list their top 40 politicians of the '70s? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:26:19 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: p*litics Quoting Eb : > Anyone wanna list their top 40 politicians of the '70s? How about "best records made by once or future elected office-holders"? Did that guy from the Smithereens ever get elected to anything in New Jersey? ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: it's not your meat :: --Mr. Toad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:30:12 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: p*litics >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Subject: Re: p*litics >Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:26:19 -0500 >Quoting Eb : > > Anyone wanna list their top 40 politicians of the '70s? >How about "best records made by once or future elected office-holders"? Did >that guy from the Smithereens ever get elected to anything in New Jersey? No, he did not win. He did not get the state house but he looks like he ate it. He must weigh 300 pounds now. Max _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:09:31 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: 40/70, several ffs >not. Also, no love for the Undertones, Miles Davis, Alice Cooper, >solo Bryan Ferry, the Police, Ultravox, CSNY, Henry Cow, the Move, >the Roches, the Band...even Richard Harris. considered the Police and Miles. Never 'got' Henry Cow. Forgot about "The Last Waltz", although I think the Band's 60s albums were better. If "Vienna" had been a few months earlier I might have considered it. And - dammit - had the wonderful self-titled Roches album wrongly filed as 1980. - --- >What is *with* those people who spell their name "Jeffery"? Makes no sense >at all... Nearly as bad as "Micheal" (not counting the Irish) or "Jonathon" >or (worse) "Johnathon"... agreed. In NZ we have a plague of "Shayne"s, which is similarly annoying. Worst I've come across, though, is probably a "Shinayde", presumably pronounced the same as Ms O'Connor. James (realising that soccer has become more popular in the US than he thought!) James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:24:13 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Southern Baptists, from a refugee (was Re: p*litics) At 04:19 PM 6/28/2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey quoted Ferris: > > Ever listen to a good Southern Baptist preacher? Pretty hard-leaning > > dems, and relatively racist. >and then wrote: >True - but they're not going to be Democrats for long. Um, too late. They're already Republicans and have been since Carter. My dad's a Southern Baptist preacher, and he and all the other ones I've met are solid Republicans. (Dad is also relatively racist -- there was a memorable moment of perplexitude at dinner one time when I came home from college and he ranted about how interracial marriage was wrong. I did *not* let that slide.) I distinctly remember being the only family member who wanted Carter to win in '80 -- and I was 7. I now take ENORMOUS pride in my precocious good judgement of character. :) dolph now using that nasty bottle o' Speyburn to marinate a steak ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:07:07 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Southern Baptists, from a refugee (was Re: p*litics) On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 06:24 PM, Dolph Chaney wrote: > At 04:19 PM 6/28/2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey quoted Ferris: >> > Ever listen to a good Southern Baptist preacher? Pretty >> hard-leaning >> > dems, and relatively racist. >> and then wrote: >> True - but they're not going to be Democrats for long. > > Um, too late. They're already Republicans and have been since Carter. > My dad's a Southern Baptist preacher, and he and all the other ones > I've met are solid Republicans. And the hard right finally took over the Southern Baptist Convention about 10 years ago. To the extent that Baylor University severed it's ties, and moderate Baptists have started their own association. - - Steve __________ God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. - George Bush, as related to Harretz by Mahmoud Abbas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:02:48 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Yes, but what am I wearing right now? Rex.Broome wrote: > > np. a really great live set by Eels that I'm surprised to be enjoying as > much as I am "Oh What A Beautiful Morning?" Shootenanny is good. I'm a bit depressed to see Butch being moved down the credits. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:29:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: 40/70, several ffs James Dignan wrote: > >What is *with* those people who spell their name > >"Jeffery"? Makes no sense at all... Nearly as bad > >as "Micheal" (not counting the Irish) or "Jonathon" > >or (worse) "Johnathon"... > > agreed. In NZ we have a plague of "Shayne"s, which is > similarly annoying. Worst I've come across, though, is > probably a "Shinayde", presumably > pronounced the same as Ms O'Connor. At least those have some sort of spelling logic behind them, unlike JeffERy. One of the worst I've seen though is a certain power? forward for the Golden State Warriors who - -- though his first name is pronounced like it was Antoine - --spells it Antawn (Jamison). Not even Antwan. Antawn. > James (realising that soccer has become more popular in > the US than he thought!) WARNING: rant below. It's huge amongst kids, at least for playing. I suspect that more than any other sport though -- maybe any other kids activity -- soccer parents drain whatever love of the sport the kids develop by the zealousness and narcisism. Soccer parents (well, a lot of them) make Southern Baptists look moderate and open-minded. It's only a sport -- all preferences are aesthetic in nature. Except for maybe something like extreme fighting or golf, your particular favorite says nothing important about you whatsoever. Unfortunately, a lot of soccer parents seem to think having their kids play soccer is equivolent to having their kids be child classical music prodigies (and there are parents like this with all sports, of course; the soccer ones are just worse because they think that the soccer makes them more worldly, thus making the parents more smug). But if you could get rid of those parents, soccer would actually have a decent shot at displacing hockey as the 4th major team sport in the US. ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:54:44 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benic=E0ssim_Festival?= I was looking up some stuff on a German site, but unfortunately my German is very poor. There was some information about the Benic`ssim Festival, August 8-10th in Valencia Spain, which states that the Soft Boys are on the line-up. I wouldn't be able to make it anyway, but I'd really like to know if this is going to happen and who would be playing bass. It might have been planned before the split, but I'm only guessing at this point.Here's an English link to the site: http://www.virtualfestivals.com/festivals/festival.cfm?eventid=507&dbtable=eventgroup§ion=lineup Later, Marc If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did." Jack Handey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:23:47 -0700 From: "Eddie Tews" Subject: From Nashville Came A Dark Horse Riding On received LUXOR from the museum yesterday. his voice sounds pretty good, and the pictures are cool. otherwise, this is total crap. definitely the low-point of robyn's career. also, yesterday picked up the new throwing muses from the library. (you see, if you're willing to wait in line for a few months, the public library plus an mp3 jukebox is a match made in heaven. LUXOR and ONE BEAT are the only two CDs i've purchased since january '02... what's more, it's all completely "legal", so far as i'm aware. inasmuch as taxpayers own the library's collections, and owners of CDs are authorised to make copies for personal use, what could the RIAA say about it? not that i'm opposed to file-sharing, or shoplifting, or what have you. i'm just sayin'.) if it's not quite as good as LIMBO (but then, how many rekkids are?), it's still pretty fuckin' good. *also* picked up THE DAY THEY SHOT A HOLE IN THE JESUS EGG. for those who've not seen wayne's june '02 liner notes, the "chapter" headings are hee-larious: waitin' for my ride jesus is floatin' outside; reapplying yourself as steam; if i'm lost, well i don't care; standin' on yer mountainside; yer fucked if you do, and yer fucked if you don't; i was born the day they shot john lennon's brain; god walks among us now!!. but here's a line that takes on new meaning: "the insanity and abandon that we so embraced in our live shows (around this time we would set off fireworks - -- big ones!! -- on stage and *catch stuff on fire*)..." okay, here are my '70s albums (which i predict y'all are gonna ridicule mercilessly). i've even ranked 'em, for fuck's sake. p.s. is a pretty damned interesting site. 1. Pink Floyd -- The Wall 2. The Velvet Underground -- Loaded 3. David Bowie -- Santa Monica '72 4. The Soft Boys -- Wading Through A Ventilator [an EP, but *easily* the most essential soft boys disc of *any* decade...] 5. The Band -- Soundtrack, The Last Waltz 6. The Cars -- The Cars [rhino's demos disc is even better...] 7. The Rolling Stones -- Some Girls [Let It Bleed would've been #3, if released a few months later...] 8. The Sex Pistols -- Never Mind The Bollocks... 9. Tim Curry & The Original Roxy Cast -- Soundtrack, The Rocky Horror Show 10. Judas Priest -- Hero, Hero 11. Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band -- Trout Mask Replica 12. Rush -- Caress Of Steel 13. The Doors -- L.A. Woman 14. Supertramp -- Crime Of The Century 15. Deep Purple -- Machine Head 16. The B-52's -- The B-52's 17. AC/DC -- Highway To Hell 18. Led Zeppelin -- Physical Graffiti 19. Gang Of Four -- Entertainment! 20. Bruce Springsteen -- Born To Run 21. The Moody Blues -- A Question Of Balance 22. Creedence Clearwater Revival -- Cosmo's Factory 23. The Eagles -- Hotel California [laugh if you must...] 24. Boston -- Boston [laugh if you must...] 25. Lou Reed -- Berlin 26. Traffic -- John Barleycorn Must Die 27. Big Star -- Radio City 28. Yes -- The Yes Album 29. The Who -- Who's Next 30. Talking Heads -- More Songs About Buildings And Food 31. The Clash -- London Calling 32. Neil Young & Crazy Horse -- Rust Never Sleeps 33. Heart -- Dreamboat Annie 34. John Lennon -- Imagine 35. Van Halen -- Van Halen I [Fair Warning, their true masterpiece, released 17 months into the '80s...] 36. Roxy Music -- For Your Pleasure 37. Golden Earring -- Moontan 38. The Beatles -- Let It Be 39. Television -- Marquee Moon 40. Fleetwood Mac -- Rumours Honorable Mention: 41. The Jam -- This Is The Modern World [The Gift, recorded about a year too late, would've been in the top 20...] 42. Thin Lizzy -- Jailbreak 43. The Ramones -- Ramones 44. George Harrison -- All Things Must Pass 45. King Crimson -- Larks' Tongues In Aspic 46. Iggy & The Stooges -- Raw Power 47. Dire Straits -- Dire Straits 48. Richard & Linda Thompson -- Pour Down Like Silver 49. Richard Pryor -- Bicentennial Nigger 50. KISS -- Destroyer 51. Aerosmith -- Rocks 52. The Modern Lovers -- The Modern Lovers 53. Crass -- The Feeding Of The 5,000 KEN "Keep that in mind at all times" THE KENSTER ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:49:28 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: From Nashville... / Dylan Covers Eddie sez: > okay, here are my '70s albums (which i predict y'all are gonna ridicule > mercilessly). i've even ranked 'em, for fuck's sake. No merciless ridiculing from this quarter; six direct matches and eight near misses to my list. I think that qualifies me for some sort of therapy. ================= A note about the upcoming Chris Smither album (from the press kit) reminded me of the Dylan covers thread: "But it is "Desolation Row" that Smither and Goodrich rebuilt from the ground up. Smither's acoustic guitar and slowly tapping foot walk the melody down deserted streets as Goodrich lays down subtle, pale washes of reed organ and piano mixed with Richard Downs' far-off horns and Mike Piehl's sad, martial drum. Smither and guest Bonnie Raitt sing as if Dylan's opaquely evocative lyrics mean everything in the world and by the time of Raitt's ravishingly spare slide solo, we believe every syllable. It is a stunning, eulogaic performance." Now I've heard Chris' solo acoustic version of that song, and it is stunning. I can only imagine what this one will be like. Anyway it got me thinking again as to which Dylan covers are *really* my favorites, and the list has changed with more time to think about it. 10 choices, FWIW: All Along the Watchtower - Jimi Hendrix Girl From the North Country - Leo Kottke When I Paint My Masterpiece - Greatful Dead When the Ship Comes In - Tommy Makem Not Dark Yet - RH My Back Pages - Byrds What Was it You Wanted? - Chris Smither Blowin' in the Wind - Peter, Paul & Mary (chuckle if you must) Blind Willie McTell - Jeffrey Foucault Pledging My Time - Greg Brown Michael "in retrospect, it probably wasn't worth that much" Wells ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #245 ********************************