From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #244 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, June 28 2003 Volume 12 : Number 244 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Strom & Sodomy ["Poole, R. Edward" ] "Phair is less than fair" ["Natalie Jane" ] Stealth Goth [Groove Puppy ] Video Hitchcock etc. ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Video Hitchcock etc. [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Crotch in exileville ["Maximilian Lang" ] A common occurence? (0%RH) ["Charlotte Tupman" ] Re: Video Hitchcock etc. [Eb ] Re: Video Hitchcock etc. [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Luxor CDDB entry [Ken Weingold ] Re: Luxor CDDB entry ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: A common occurence? (0%RH) [Eb ] RE: Four big digests in one day??? [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] RE: Four big digests in one day??? [Catherine Simpson ] Divers alarums [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Reap [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Divers alarums [Eb ] RE: Reap ["Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" ] Re: A common occurence? (0%RH) [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Reap ["Michael Wells" ] Re: Reap [Capuchin ] heh ["Michael Wells" ] Re: Reap [Brian Cully ] Re: Terrible Vocalists Make Better Lovers [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) [Christopher Gross ] Re: Billy, don't be a Jeffrey [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] record reviews ["Marc Holden" ] Underwater Moonlight review ["Marc Holden" ] Re: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Strom & Sodomy So, is it just me, or does it seem quite a coincidence that Strom Thurmond died within hours of the Supreme Court's decision in Lawrence v. Texas (recognizing a due process privacy right in consensual sex within the home, while striking down Texas' and other states' laws criminalizing homosexual sodomy)? I think that was the last nail in the coffin. Barney Frank just spoke here at my law firm -- he was scheduled by our "diversity committee" 3 months ago, but the timing was excellent (indeed, we were worried he would cancel because of all the CNN, MSNBC, etc demands on his time) -- and it was great for there to be good news for him to discuss, for a change. I also liked his rejoinder to my comment about old Strom: "Well, I'm the last person would say that Strom was pro-gay, but I can't seem him complaining about any decision that allows for more sex." - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - This e-mail message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering this confidential communication to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error, and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this e-mail message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this confidential communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail message and permanently delete the original message. To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to postmaster@dsmo.com Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP http://www.DicksteinShapiro.com ============================================================================= = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:46:05 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: "Phair is less than fair" >I picked up the new Liz Phair CD after having lunch with Kathy in Center >City Philadelphia. I popped it in when I got in my car at the train >station. Man....I guess she can still write songs but I don't know that I >will ever listen to it. I heard about 1/3 of the CD at indie-rock palace Jackpot Records the other day. It wasn't horrible but yeah, it was very generic and character-less, run-of-the-mill mainstream-sounding songs and production - she actually sounded to me like Madonna (and that's not a compliment, coming from me). I was never a huge fan of Phair's but I respected her and thought she was pretty cool (insert brag - I even met her once! she was nice). Now she's just one of a zillion top-40 wanna-bes. Whatever... at least all you guys can get off on the record cover, I guess that's worth something... ;) n. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:09:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Groove Puppy Subject: Stealth Goth - --- Groove Puppy wrote: > > And I think Express is a > > great album. > > I do have Express and it does have it's moments. > > (H) > > np Fun Lovin Criminals "Come Find Yourself" Completely missed the irony that I was listening to "Scooby Snacks", complete with Tones on Tail sample. Sheesh. np Martin Stephenson & the Daintees "Salutation Road" (definitely no goth) ===== CHUCKHOLE All that great punk rock taste with only half the calories. http://clix.to/chuckhole http://www.mp3.com/chuckhole __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:44:16 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Video Hitchcock etc. Eb: >>I'm not sure if I've ever seen a Hitchcock video either. Couldn't even say how >>many he has made. Vague memory of *maybe* seeing one for "Madonna of >>the Wasps"? There were videos for all the A&M singles plus "Raymond Chandler Evening" and "Beautiful Girl", and 120 Minutes (as well as Postmodern MTV) played the ass out of them... that's why I made the distinction about the Butcher. But like I said, I was kinda stuck with MTV as my source for college rock. _____ JeFFrey: >>Well, given that Corgan dated Courtney BEFORE she was >>married to Kurt, that last parts a bit implausible Rilly? I thought he cowrote half of Celebrity Skin before walking out in disgust, and that's what you were mentioning. Lots of Courtney Love and Liz Phair today... hmmm... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:57:09 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Video Hitchcock etc. Quoting "Rex.Broome" : > JeFFrey: > >>Well, given that Corgan dated Courtney BEFORE she was > >>married to Kurt, that last parts a bit implausible I said no such thing. I've invited my very close personal friends Miho Hatori and Yuka Honda (a/k/a Cibo Matto) to advise: "We know our Jeffreys / You've got to know your Jeffreys" I...am not a Dwarf. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: we make everything you need, and you need everything we make ps: Dig! Pop-cultural references from the sixties/seventies, eighties, *and* nineties - all in one post. I'm so ashamed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:36:25 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Crotch in exileville >From: "Jason R. Thornton" >Subject: Re: Crotch in exileville >Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:08:41 -0700 >At 03:27 PM 6/27/2003 -0400, Maximilian Lang wrote: >>Yeah, well I listened to the online EP and think it is really great, go >>figure. It has cover art available on the site but it is not really user >>friendly to burn it onto a disc, it is one large asf file that you have to >>go through a few things to even get to. >So, where exactly is this online EP? You need the disc in your computer to access it. Max _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:08:21 +0100 From: "Charlotte Tupman" Subject: A common occurence? (0%RH) A recent press clipping that I had to share with you: >A young girl who was blown out to sea on a set of inflatable teeth was >rescued by a man on an inflatable lobster. >A coastguard spokesman commented, "This sort of thing is all too common". > (The Times) Re: the top 40 70s albums, I've been following the thread with great interest... I'd intended to compile my own list, but was horrified to discover that I didn't actually OWN 40 albums by separate artists from the 70s! But then as I was only *just* born in the 70s ('Another Brick in the Wall Part 2' was the first Christmas no.1 of my life) then hopefully I can be forgiven... Charlotte _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:13:17 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Video Hitchcock etc. >There were videos for all the A&M singles plus "Raymond Chandler Evening" >and "Beautiful Girl", and 120 Minutes (as well as Postmodern MTV) played the >ass out of them... I don't really remember what his A&M singles were, beyond "Madonna" and "Balloon." "So You Think You're in Love"? "Arms of Love"? I might have seen the "Balloon" and "Madonna" videos, though I have only the faintest of visual memories. Definitely didn't see any of the others. > that's why I made the distinction about the Butcher. Just remember: "Grooving in the Bus Lane" is a better song than "Grooving on an Inner Plane." ;) >Lots of Courtney Love and Liz Phair today... hmmm... Seems like Liz Phair (and her "conversion" to top 40) is one of *the* music-discussion topics in general, right now. That and the RIAA's witch hunt, of course. And what's going to happen to Strom Thurmond's lost recording sessions with Owen Bradley. One reason why Liz Phair might be considered "hot": http://i.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/030522/13516__liz_l.jpg Eb PS This is pretty neato: http://www.andreaspacific.com/media/ifeelfine.swf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:22:15 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Video Hitchcock etc. Quoting Eb : > One reason why Liz Phair might be considered "hot": > http://i.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/030522/13516__liz_l.jpg With all due respect for Ms. Phair's inherent hotness, the posture, outfit, and gesture pretty much guarantee hotness w/all but, uh, the deformed. ..Jeff, who obviously has no standards at all anyway J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: This album is dedicated to anyone who started out as an animal and :: winds up as a processing unit. :: --Soft Boys, note, _Can of Bees_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:33:21 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Luxor CDDB entry So any of you the first to enter the Luxor info? Penelope's Angles was entered as Penelope's Angels. I corrected it. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:54:08 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Luxor CDDB entry Ken wrote: > > So any of you the first to enter the Luxor info? > Penelope's Angles > was entered as Penelope's Angels. I corrected > it. It's right on freedb.org. Stewart (after too many Balvenies, and a couple of St Ambroise Oatmeal Stout) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:57:36 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: A common occurence? (0%RH) >Re: the top 40 70s albums, I've been following the thread with great >interest... I'd intended to compile my own list, but was horrified >to discover that I didn't actually OWN 40 albums by separate artists >from the 70s! Note: Just 'cuz Jeme finished his "computations" doesn't mean there's no reason for folks to post further lists. I dunno...maybe I should have said Top 20 or 30 instead of 40, so the collection-impaired wouldn't feel left out. If you can't come up with 40 different artists, you might as well post what you have. But I do think the lists are a lot more interesting when they're limited to one-album-per-artist. Otherwise, we'd have too many lists overstuffed with Dylan, Bowie, Neil Young, etc. My own list would have plenty of repetition, too. Just occured to me...Big Star was at the top of the consensus, and yet there wasn't even *one* vote for either Badfinger or the Raspberries. Hrm. No votes for Claudine Longet either, believe it or not. Also, no love for the Undertones, Miles Davis, Alice Cooper, solo Bryan Ferry, the Police, Ultravox, CSNY, Henry Cow, the Move, the Roches, the Band...even Richard Harris. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:06:36 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: RE: Four big digests in one day??? >He told me the >other day that he sang it for his preschool teacher, and she said it was >"interesting" and asked if his parents knew he was singing a song about dead >people - that's my boy! I take it his teacher has never seen what you look like ;) James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:14:13 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Four big digests in one day??? First ME: >He told me the >other day that he sang it for his preschool teacher, and she said it was >"interesting" and asked if his parents knew he was singing a song about dead >people - that's my boy! Then James: >>I take it his teacher has never seen what you look like ;) Yes, actually, she has, so I think that's why she just dropped the subject ;)Granted, she's only seen when I'm on my way to work, but even then I still wear black every day (with maybe a *hint* of purple), and she's seen the tattoos... - - Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:21:43 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Divers alarums >Spot on! I thought I quite liked their version of "Can't you hear my heart >beat" until I recently re-heard the superb Goldie and the Gingerbreads >hit. Great record, particularly the inanely lifeless organ solo. > >And I would nominate their cover of Donovan's "Museum" as the worst >Herman's Hermits record I am aware of. worse than "I'm Henry VIII I am"? And still legal? - --- >>> a pretty sizeable ambient/industrial/illbient collection > >Hey, haven't seen that last genre namechecked for a while. true, it seems to have gone out of style. But I prefer it to "Isolationism" which is the other name I've heard for it. And it describes in nicely. >One thing I notice about your list of "Gothy" Robyn titles... they're almost >all in the class of his "funny" songs... to me, at least. good point. I hadn't noticed that. And surely, no Goth would ever record "The pit of souls (Country version)" - --- >>Surprised to see Led Zeppelin, Patti Smith and Roxy Music that far >>down the list. And surprised to see Big Star, the Stooges and >>Television so high. I'm surprised that John Cale is placed so low. And it seems I may have to investigate Big Star, of whom I know nothing. - --- >More than once I read reviews which compared their guitarist to D. Boon. Either (likely) there's more than one D. Boon, or (unlikely) their guitarist looks like a small, round, Australian cricketer with a big moustache. - --- >I come up with 134 of the feg-approved '70's titles in my collection, >although I may be behind on the revisions of the list. Just noticed Burrito >Deluxe... I had it down as 1969 or else that probably woulda made the grade, >inferior as it is to the debut. I also note Steve Winwood's "Arc of a diver", which my copy clearly says is 1980. It would have made the 'bubbling under' list for me, but probably not the top 40. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:21:52 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Reap >>> Strom Thurmond. never heard of him. But probably much of the list hasn't heard of Marc-Vivien Foe, either. James ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:24:52 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Divers alarums >I'm surprised that John Cale is placed so low. And it seems I may have to >investigate Big Star, of whom I know nothing. > Now that's most surprising of all. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:31:42 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: RE: Reap James kvetched: > >>> Strom Thurmond. > > never heard of him. > But probably much of the list hasn't heard of Marc-Vivien Foe, either. Just because you haven't heard of the great American political bad guys. Doesn't mean we American's are ignorant of dead footballers from Cameroon. Stop pouting. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:38:03 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: A common occurence? (0%RH) At 05:57 PM 6/27/2003, Eb wrote: >Just occured to me...Big Star was at the top of the consensus, and yet >there wasn't even *one* vote for either Badfinger or the Raspberries. Badfinger's STRAIGHT UP made my top 50. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:39:21 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: Reap Jason counter-kvetches: > Just because you haven't heard of the great American political bad guys. > Doesn't mean we American's are ignorant of dead footballers from > Cameroon. Stop pouting. Given the all-whites performance in the Cup (-10 goal differential in three straight losses), James has room to pout. As do we, actually. Michael "next time, we'll send the starters" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:07:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Reap On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, James Dignan wrote: > >>> Strom Thurmond. > > never heard of him. He was old. Real old. And he loved the ladies and hated the blacks and gays and anybody else that wasn't just like him or a lady. He and "Fritz" Hollings had been the ONLY senators from South Carolina (each state gets two, mind you) for 36 years until last November when Strom retired. (Hollings is responsible for a whole lot of evil in the Senate himself. On some other lists I frequent he is refered to as "the Senator from Disney" for his support of copyright extension and hate for all things non-commercial.) > But probably much of the list hasn't heard of Marc-Vivien Foe, either. I sure have... especially because he turns up whenever you run any kind of search for "vivien lyon" (having once played for Lyon, I guess). J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:20:33 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: heh http://www.smthop.com/Editorials2.asp?NewsNum=145 Michael "space tacos for everybody" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:12:30 -0400 From: Brian Cully Subject: Re: Reap A friend of mine posted something to his livejournal which i absolutely loved: http://www.livejournal.com/~nihilistic_kid/256946.html I haven't voted since I turned 21, because I felt that it didn't make a difference. Nick's managed to say exactly why. - -bjc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 03:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Terrible Vocalists Make Better Lovers "Rex.Broome" wrote: > Max on what's compelling about Dylan: > >>Or Tom Verlaine, or Louie Armstrong or Howard Devoto or > >>Johnny Rotten or Mark E. Smith or Patti Smith or Dean > >>Wareham or Ian Curtis or Guy Keyser > >>or Ian Dury or Tom Waits.... > > Or Johnny Cash or Neil Young or Joey Ramone or Lou Reed > or Pete Shelley or Jonathan Richman or Frank Black > Francis or John Lennon or Alex Chilton etc. etc. etc. > > Thanks. I just have to admit it: I like sucky singers > better than good ones. Maybe because I can relate. It comes down to what's the more important part of singing "well": technical virtuosity and range or the ability to communicate ideas and emotions. There are a few people can do both it seems -- Nat Cole comes to mind, Ian McCulloch, David Bowie, and Sinead O'Connor as well -- but when push comes to shove, you have to decide whether tis nobler to be Whitney or Dylan. Maybe none of the above sing "pretty" (though Lennon did at times), but all of them sing beautifully. Except Mark E. Smith, who just sucks. (duck) ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 03:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Billy, don't be a Jeffrey "Rex.Broome" wrote: > [not quite] JeFFrey: > >>Well, given that Corgan dated Courtney BEFORE she was > >>married to Kurt, that last parts a bit implausible > > Rilly? I thought he cowrote half of Celebrity Skin > before walking out in > disgust, and that's what you were mentioning. Well, he did that too, but that's not what I was thinking of. Then again, I don't actually believe that Kurt wrote Live Through This, albeit for the less generous than most reason that if he had, it would have been a better record. === Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: re: Rex's blaming him for my statement above: > I said no such thing. I've invited my very close personal > friends Miho Hatori and Yuka Honda (a/k/a Cibo Matto) to > advise: > > "We know our Jeffreys / You've got to know your Jeffreys" > > I...am not a Dwarf. To be fair, there was a plague of Jeffrey let loose on the country in the early 70s. And that's not even getting into those inferior Jefferys and (most disturbingly of all) Geoffreys. And everybody's a Dwarf sometime. === James Dignan wrote: > >And I would nominate their cover of Donovan's "Museum" > >as the worst Herman's Hermits record I am aware of. > > worse than "I'm Henry VIII I am"? And still legal? Jesus, that's a terrible song. Naturally, the oldies station I work at plays it a lot. And also "Mrs. Brown you have a lovely Daughter," which apparently when my parents began dating my father liked to sing as "Mrs. Jolley, ...." Oy vey, it's a miracle I exist. > --- > >More than once I read reviews which compared their > >guitarist to D. Boon. > > Either (likely) there's more than one D. Boon, or > (unlikely) their guitarist looks like a small, round, > Australian cricketer with a big moustache. Singer-Guitarist with the Minutemen; killed in an auto accident around Christmas in 85. Double Nickels on the Dime is generally considered seminal, though I don't know their catalog enough to give a good assessment (though I do like that one). ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) > A friend of mine posted something to his livejournal which i > absolutely loved: > http://www.livejournal.com/~nihilistic_kid/256946.html > > I haven't voted since I turned 21, because I felt that it didn't make > a difference. Nick's managed to say exactly why. The annoying part is that if I posted a reply to this, *I* would be the one seen as starting a political argument on the list. Meanwhile, at work I temporarily have access to a machine with a CD-burner and Windows 2000 Pro. A perfect opportunity to burn those thousands of mp3s I've downloaded at work, I thought. However, when I try, I get a CDR that my Windows NT machine at work can read, but my Mac at home (running OS 9.2) CAN'T read. The Mac thinks they're unformatted disks. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? Reply off-list, please. Thanks, Chris nnp: several GB of mp3s I only have on my computer at work ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:39:02 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Billy, don't be a Jeffrey Quoting Jeff Dwarf : > To be fair, there was a plague of Jeffrey let loose on the > country in the early 70s. And that's not even getting into > those inferior Jefferys and (most disturbingly of all) > Geoffreys. What is *with* those people who spell their name "Jeffery"? Makes no sense at all... Nearly as bad as "Micheal" (not counting the Irish) or "Jonathon" or (worse) "Johnathon"... > > > worse than "I'm Henry VIII I am"? And still legal? > > Jesus, that's a terrible song. 'Tis...but without it, the immortal lines "second verse / history as farce" would never have been included in...uh, that Marxist pop song that I haven't written yet. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: This album is dedicated to anyone who started out as an animal and :: winds up as a processing unit. :: --Soft Boys, note, _Can of Bees_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:53:53 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: record reviews Here's a new music resource for you: http://www.chthonicionic.net/bile/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:55:45 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Underwater Moonlight review The end of the Underwater Moonlight review seemed very Robynesque: "...Queen of Eyes made my cat sick. Twice. I think I'm going to sue. Track twelve, Vegetable Man? No, no, no, no and no. Horrible. Like a dawn chorus of bees slowly being ground into mince for the cheap meat market. In fact, this should've been put down years ago." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:57:53 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Reap (plus, CDR-burning issues) Quoting Christopher Gross : > > A friend of mine posted something to his livejournal which i > > absolutely loved: > > http://www.livejournal.com/~nihilistic_kid/256946.html > > > > I haven't voted since I turned 21, because I felt that it didn't make > > a difference. Nick's managed to say exactly why. > > The annoying part is that if I posted a reply to this, *I* would be the > one seen as starting a political argument on the list. Well, I'm wearing three inches of flameproof bubblewrap at the moment, so, uh, I guess I will. (Apologies to our non-US readers, to whom this is relevant only as, unfortunately, the president of the US affects your lives as well): The guy makes some valid points - anyone imagining the Democrats to be magical saviours on white horses probably also expects monkeys to be flying out of my ass on nonstop flights to Oz - but the problem is, I think, that he holds an idealistic, civics-class view of voting. Voting is absolutely *not* an arena in which everyone can go and vote for their favorite candidate, and the favored candidate wins (insert your own Bush/Gore ref here). The winner-take-all, two-party system (complicated in pres elections by the nefarious Electoral College) means voting must be *strategic* if it's going to be anything at all. Now, please: Nader voters and others, do not crucify me. The fact is, by far the better strategy for th left is to build a powerbase from below: local, etc. offices. Plus (cue from the hard right) pressure groups to influence higher-level candidates. Oh - and money, raised by any means necessary. And fanaticism that breeds feral, cunning dishonesty. (See, this is why good progressives have so much trouble building a powerbase: it's against their nature.) Anyway, in a presidential election, either the Republican or the Democrat wins. Period. There are counterexamples from, what, a hundred years ago? But they're totally irrelevant to the current political scene. So if you favor Candidate X from Party Not-A-Not-B, if you really want to further that agenda...well, nothing you do in a presidential vote is going to affect that terribly. So far, maybe I'm agreeing with this Nick character. Except for one key thing: the "religious" (i.e., fanatic) right has far less influence over the Democrats than over the Republicans. Yes, both parties are completely in the pocket of corporate interests, etc., and that sucks...but it's far less likely that an Ashcroft would have come from the Democrats. The bit about the Supreme Court is not "horseshit": true, pressure counts, public distaste counts...but not on the core issues of the hard right, which has no interest w/s/e in democracy. Polls have shown for years that most Americans favor abortion rights, most favor gun control, etc. But those issues are so dear to the hard right, there's no way they're going to cede any democratic ground on them. So, as long as you accept that what you're doing when voting for president is along the lines of piling another (not all that effective, but still) sandbag against the flood - and *not* magically causing it to recede and disappear - you'll be okay. And then do everything else the guy talks about - cuz I think he's right there. And that should include a concerted effort to institute a truly democratic voting system: scrap the Electoral College, put in place something like Instant Runoff Voting, etc. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: we make everything you need, and you need everything we make ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #244 ********************************