From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #239 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, June 26 2003 Volume 12 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Watch my ass [gshell@metronet.com] RE: A quick one for the Goths [Catherine Simpson ] Legendary, but not live ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Is it hard to mint 2 dudes with mullets fighting over the last beer? ["Gl] wheeze wheeze ["Natalie Jane" ] Cookie Monster vs. Eddie Vedder ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Feg Goths... Feggoths... paging Mr. Lovecraft! ["Rex.Broome" ] RE: Feg Goths... Feggoths... paging Mr. Lovecraft! [Catherine Simpson ] He.. Is.. Not-Uh... Appreciated-Uh! ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: 40 from the 70s (2.5% RH content) [Daryl Burtzos ] Re: Stuff [Eb ] Re: Stuff ["Glen Uber" ] RE: Stuff ["Iosso, Ken" ] Re: The Goth question considered yet again [Ken Weingold ] RE: Stuff [Eb ] RE: wheeze wheeze ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: 40 from the 70s (2.5% RH content) [Tom Clark ] Golden Age of Grunge (sic) ["Rex.Broome" ] RE: Stuff ["Glen Uber" ] Re: Stuff [Tom Clark ] RE: Golden Age of Grunge (sic) ["Iosso, Ken" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:56:51 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: Re: Watch my ass hey, i've first sodomized in 1970 when i was three, in some way or another. it has always been consensual as far as i was concerned and though i wasn't an adult when i started, i'm still not an adult and therefore have never really had to worry. i wonder if they could have arrested a man for blowing himself? > -tc, planning my trip to the ranch in Crawford... if we get george drunk, think he might give us a go? man, think of how much those pictures would be worth. this might be the path to our own financial valhalla. would that be evil to sell pictures of us sodomizing with the president, for profit? fuck it, i can live with the label. look at all the ones i live with now. i'm not gay but sometimes i wish i was bisexual, just for the convenience. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:09:43 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: A quick one for the Goths Honestly, the only song by The Fall I can think of is Big New Prinz ("check the record, check the record, check the guy's track record..."). It's an OK song, though nothing to do with Goth... I've never heard the "Witch Trials" album - perhaps it's worth a listen if I ever come across it... And Rex, I can't imagine you with purple hair! Got any pictures? - - Catherine - -----Original Message----- From: Rex.Broome [mailto:Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:24 AM To: 'fegmaniax@smoe.org' Subject: A quick one for the Goths Yo, do Goths like the Fall? The "Witch Trials" album has that brittle trebly minor key thing going on and, like, witches... the early stuff seems viable. Oh, and I had purple hair m'self for a while. It was essentially inspired by Miki Berenyi but looked like an early grunge thing because of my taste in shirts at the time. I'm kinda pissed that my dad didn't book a gig for our band that year. I woulda really enjoyed playing "Okie from Muskogee" while sporting a magenta pageboy cut. But ya can't have everything. Rex, leading the list in posts mentioning both Haggard and Mark E. Smith for the past 10 seconds ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:13:41 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Legendary, but not live Jason R. Thornton wrote: > I saw the Legendary Pink Dots once recently based on some friend's > recommendations, and hated them. Sorry Mary. ;) I agree. They're better on record. I've seen them live three or four times (I even ran into Mary at one of their gigs in DC), but have always considered their live show a bit weak. But they are prodigious, always putting records out. I think I'm a few CDs behind on their output. ObGothContent: Seeing Ka-Spel on his own was cool, however. I saw him open for Skinny Puppy back in 1986. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:16:03 -0700 From: "Glen Uber" Subject: Is it hard to mint 2 dudes with mullets fighting over the last beer? Something for Rex: - -- Cheers! - -g- "Remember when you're out there trying to heal the sick that you must always first forgive them." --Bob Dylan, "Open The Door, Homer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:18:20 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: wheeze wheeze > >I just think Dylan should have kept > > his mouth shut and let others sing his fine songs. Whaddya think? What's > > so compelling about Dylan that everyone overlooks the fact that he can't > > sing? I don't know who said this... but yeah, exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. I had a brief period where I thought I could like Dylan... I bought some album of his that I was supposed to like (Highway 61 Revisited, I think), listened to it a bunch of times... but for all my efforts, I found it totally dull, and I couldn't get past that tuneless asthmatic donkey's bray of a voice. I've heard some of his more recent stuff which was more palatable (I think he's discovered the concept of a melody), and I like his songs OK when other people sing them, but I'm afraid I still cling to my heretical position. Speaking of tuneless and dull, I hate Sleater-Kinney with a passion... but I love Quasi. I think I'm the only one in the world. n. np: Jay Farrar, Terroir Blues - as good as I hoped it would be _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:19:36 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Cookie Monster vs. Eddie Vedder Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I think a lot of prog bands would be better if they'd throw away their > metal albums... A very good point. However, if they sound more like metal, and they don't have a Mellotron, they're not Prog My problem w/metal nowadays is the goddam Drano-victim vocals: My theory on that is: it's popular because it's so easy to do (well, easy until your larynx is raw). Growling like Cookie Monster doesn't require attention to things like, say, staying in key or subtle intonation. I always figured there was a MIDI effect or effects pedal for it by now. The two choices for the vocalist of any metal band is: sound like the Cookie Monster or sound like Eddie Vedder. Tragic, that. They should consider sounding like Robert Wyatt or Dagmar Krause. > The other thing is that pummeling becomes nearly ambient when it's all > you > do - *contrast*, folks, *contrast.* Otherwise, there seem to be some > fairly interesting musical ideas > there - mostly the ones borrowed from...prog bands. Well, Opeth does have the contrast thing down, but I think they learned that from Steve Wilson (arch Progster). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:21:29 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: wheeze wheeze In reference to: > >I just think Dylan should have kept > > his mouth shut and let others sing his fine songs. Whaddya think? What's > > so compelling about Dylan that everyone overlooks the fact that he can't > > sing? Natalie wrote: >>I don't know who said this... but yeah, exactly. I couldn't have said it >>better myself. I'll claim that quote, Natalie. - - Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:45:47 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Feg Goths... Feggoths... paging Mr. Lovecraft! Jeff D: >>The closest I can think of for myself is I love Nirvana, >>like Smashing Pumpkins quite a bit, non-plussed by Pearl >>Jam, annoyed by Alice in Chains, truly detest Soundgarden. This is an interesting continuum. My version would be: like Nirvana, nonplussed by Pearl Jam (although I hated them at first), respect but dislike Soundgarden, have contempt for Smashing Pumpkins but can kind of understand why some would find them legit, and loathe detest have contempt for and cannot possibly understand how anyone could ever say anything good about Alice in Goddamn Chains. >>Why on earth do people think Live sound like R.E.M.? Because they try so, so hard! _______ JeFFrey: >>Who was that hideously awful band from Florida...they had a >>minor hit called "Cumbersome" which, somehow, came out >>"cawwwwm-brrr-soohhhmmm" - god that was awful. Oh Christ. I believe they were one of several contemporaneous bands who all had the word "Mary" and a number in their name and sucked donkey balls through a straw. That one particularly grated not only sonically but because the songwriter clearly didn't know the meaning of the word he used as a song title. There was another song in this same category by some other assholes which was entitled "Stupefy"... that was later, though... On prog: >>Certainly the genre has its execrable and/or laughable moments (...) but I >>think one dismisses the whole genre (or lumps it all together as the same) at >>peril to their musical enjoyment. I'm coming to see this POV. The main thing is that I like so many newer records which have proggy touches that I'm in danger of becoming a (bigger) hypocrite. If I want to keep my license to ask people how they can like the Smiths but not the Byrds (or whatever), I can't really dismiss Roger Waters while embracing the Flaming Lips. But still, within seconds of any song by Yes, ELP, Rush, or Genesis, my teeth are irretrievably and viscerally on edge and it's all I can do to stop myself from yelling "STOP WITH THE WANKING!" >>But then, I'm batshit insane. Right there with ya, homey. Today more than usual. Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:38:02 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Goth 'n' Robyn On Thu, Jun 26, 2003, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > OK, I'll come out of the goth closet a little more. I've got a fairly > large black Eye of Horus tattoo on my upper left arm. I even stole had the > tattoo artist steal the design from a Sisters of Mercy album cover, > although he tweaked it a bit. Heh heh. I have a winged scarab on my upper right shoulder. I was goth-ish in high school, and of course it sort of stays with you. Lots of my friends were, but I never really fit into any particular thing. I just sort of did my own thing. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:38:04 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Feg Goths... Feggoths... paging Mr. Lovecraft! JeFFrey: >>Who was that hideously awful band from Florida...they had a >>minor hit called "Cumbersome" which, somehow, came out >>"cawwwwm-brrr-soohhhmmm" - god that was awful. Rex: >>Oh Christ. I believe they were one of several contemporaneous bands who all >>had the word "Mary" 7Mary3 - God-awful band... - - Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:45:51 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: RE: A quick one for the Goths Catherine Simpson wrote: > > Honestly, the only song by The Fall I can think > of is Big New Prinz I had completely forgotten that, in 1987, I was a huge fan of The Fall. "This Nation's Saving Grace" [which had "Cruiser's Creek", probably The Fall's only nearly-Radio Friendly song] and "Bend Sinister" were great. Dang, now I've got MES's voice stuck in my head. It sounds like a sheep and a mosquito having a sneering competition. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:03:34 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: He.. Is.. Not-Uh... Appreciated-Uh! >>Honestly, the only song by The Fall I can think of is Big New Prinz ("check >>the record, check the record, check the guy's track record..."). It's an OK >>song, though nothing to do with Goth... That's definitely after the retro-garage tendencies had come to the fore in the Brix era. Kicks ass, though. (And BTW I have seen a Brix E. Smith track on at least one Goth compilation, now that I think about it, despite the fact that her band Adult Net was more retro-'60's than the Fall ever were.) >>I've never heard the "Witch Trials" album - perhaps it's worth a listen if I ever >>come across it... It's more "Goth-friendly" but not a great Fall record or really a great record at all (IMHO)... the band almost immediately thereafter found a more original voice. But it ain't bad. However, I think I can safely recommend mid-period records like "Hex Enduction Hour" and "This Nation's Saving Grace" to anyone with a taste for dark and unhinged music. The slightly club-inflected post-Brix album "Extricate" might be a good fit, too, and while you're at it you could pick up the Monks' "Black Monk Time" (two of whose songs are covered on "Extricate") for a truly fucked up alternative take on the '60's garage model with a nicely misanthropic bent bereft of either incense or peppermints. Warning: contains thrash-banjo, and lots of it. >>And Rex, I can't imagine you with purple hair! Got any pictures? I know, wacky, huh? Somewhat lamely I have only B&W shots from that era, except for a few from Christmas morning back in WV with Grandma and stuff. Kind of funny but I'm usually wearing a hat because it's early morning and until I get a shower I can't do anything with my hair no matter what color it is. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:57:12 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Goth 'n' Robyn Ken Weingold: >>Heh heh. I have a winged scarab on my upper right shoulder. >>I was goth-ish in high school, and of course it sort of stays with >>you. Lots of my friends were, but I never really fit into any >>particular thing. I just sort of did my own thing I first discovered "goths" while in London in the summer of 1980, the summer I turned 16. No one was really calling them goths back then, I just knew that these strange people in black with interesting hair colors and styles, wearing great make-up (girls and boys alike!), listening to a band called The Cure were the coolest people I'd ever seen, and were entirely unlike the snooty, completely white-bread, Izod-wearing, BMW-driving kids I went to high school with. Still, it took me until I was 18 and going to Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore to really *become* part of the Goth scene, when someone recommended that I check out a place called the Marble Bar, which was the center of Baltimore's alternative/underground scene. From then on out, there was no turning back... I know it's something most people think you should kind of "grow out of", but I just don't see that happening for me any time in the near future... I think it's funny when I see little young Goth-kids, though. I can't help but think "I was Goth before you were born!" - - Catherine (pre-apologizing for her misty-eyed nostalgic musing) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:01:03 -0500 From: Daryl Burtzos Subject: Re: 40 from the 70s (2.5% RH content) Delurking before the final votes are tallied and this thread *completely* dies, here's my forty cents... > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:30:08 -0500 > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > Subject: Risking the Wrath of Eb (tm) > > Oh: is anyone compiling the list's 40 from the '70s lists? I'd be > curious to > see if there's any consensus, or at least how things rank. > > ..Jeff ...including the bleeding obvious, the ones Rolling Stone Requires, the ridiculously mainstream & disappointingly conventional, the muso crap & the proggy twee, and the no-way-what-the-f*#k-is-this-@sshole-thinkin,' but I love 'em all pretty much one end to t'other, presented in tally-friendly, anal-retentive, too-lazy-to-assign-individual-ranking-OK-I-just-trolled-through-the-database alphabetical order: Ash Ra Tempel - Join Inn Syd Barrett - Barrett Beach Boys - Sunflower Beatles - Let It Be Big Star - Radio City Brinsley Schwarz - Nervous on the Road Cheap Trick - Cheap Trick The Clash - The Clash (USA version) Creedence Clearwater Revival - Cosmo's Factory Nick Drake - Bryter Layter Fairport Convention - Full House Fleetwood Mac - Rumours Funkadelic - Standing on the Verge of Getting it On Grateful Dead - American Beauty Jimi Hendrix - The Cry of Love King Crimson - Red Kinks - Lola vs Powerman and the Moneygoround Leo Kottke - My Feet Are Smiling Led Zeppelin - untitled John Lennon - Imagine Little Feat - Waiting For Columbus Mahavishnu Orchestra - Inner Mounting Flame Meters - Rejuvenation Van Morrison - Moondance Parliament - Up For the Down Stroke Gram Parsons - Grievous Angel Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon Bonnie Raitt - Give It Up Rolling Stones - Exile on Main Street Paul Simon - Paul Simon Soft Boys - Can of Bees Steely Dan - Countdown to Ecstasy Rod Stewart - Every Picture Tells A Story Television - Marquee Moon Richard & Linda Thompson - Pour Down Like Silver Velvet Underground - Loaded The Who - Who's Next Yes - The Yes Album Neil Young - After the Gold Rush Hope I can count. Seriously whittled down from a list nearly twice as long - can't believe what I excluded, though nearly every deletion showed up elsewhere (and left this list slanted way towards the first half of the decade). Great lists from everybody w/ some great surprises! Daryl (first post finally outta the way, some 26 months late) as you were.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:49:23 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Goth 'n' Robyn On Thu, Jun 26, 2003, Catherine Simpson wrote: > I haven't gotten a new one in about 6 years - I'm considering a celtic > cross, but same problem - everything seems too generic. Oh, and anyone who > tells you that getting a tattoo is excruciating is exaggerating; but, by the > same token, anyone who tells you that it doesn't really hurt, is either > lying or has an unusually high love for/tolerance for pain ;) Well it depends where on your body it is, how many needles are used, and what the artist is doing. Filling in color with five needles over and over again in the same area can be a bit excruciating. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:06:55 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Stuff >Jeff(?): > Why on earth do people think Live sound like R.E.M.? Because they do? The thing is, Live is the one band who rips off *late* R.E.M. Other R.E.M. clones target Murmur/Reckoning, but Live rips off the Warner Bros. years. After Stipe's voice became more "ornery," and the guitars turned a bit more aggressive. >Brian Eno -- Discreet Music Ooh Jeff...very esoteric. ;) >Ross, in indie-rock small case: >television - adventure Huh! Now there's a preference you don't often see. >Someone: >but what always irked me about so-called >"grunge" is that the three most commercially popular exponents thereof >(Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden) sound absolutely nothing like one another Superunknown outsold any Alice in Chains album, but on the whole, Alice in Chains has sold more records than Soundgarden. Someone needs to post a picture of Catherine Simpson, so we can behold all her tattooed, gothy splendor. :) I think my favorite Fall album is The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall. That band used to get on my nerves -- partially because it seemed like everyone I knew who liked the Fall had musical tastes which I didn't respect -- but I eventually warmed up to them. Though I still know a guy who rates them as pretty much *the* ultimate band in history, and I have a real hard time understanding what his criteria might be. Eb PS Daryl Burtzos, you seem like someone whom we oughta hear from more often. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:10:42 -0700 From: "Glen Uber" Subject: Re: Stuff Eb earnestly scribbled: >PS Daryl Burtzos, you seem like someone whom we oughta hear from more often. No kidding. Funkadelic, the Meters and Parliament on the list. That brother's adding some soul to these here proceedings. - -- Cheers! - -g- "Work is the curse of the drinking class." - --Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:14:22 -0500 From: "Iosso, Ken" Subject: RE: Stuff It's true some Live does sound like some REM. That's not to say they are anywhere as good as REM. Very similar case is how much the Goo Goo Dolls sound like the great Replacements records. Again they are not in the same league. Ken Iosso -----Original Message----- From: Eb [mailto:ElBroome@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 3:07 PM To: fgz Subject: Re: Stuff >Jeff(?): > Why on earth do people think Live sound like R.E.M.? Because they do? The thing is, Live is the one band who rips off *late* R.E.M. Other R.E.M. clones target Murmur/Reckoning, but Live rips off the Warner Bros. years. After Stipe's voice became more "ornery," and the guitars turned a bit more aggressive. >Brian Eno -- Discreet Music Ooh Jeff...very esoteric. ;) >Ross, in indie-rock small case: >television - adventure Huh! Now there's a preference you don't often see. >Someone: >but what always irked me about so-called >"grunge" is that the three most commercially popular exponents thereof >(Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden) sound absolutely nothing like one another Superunknown outsold any Alice in Chains album, but on the whole, Alice in Chains has sold more records than Soundgarden. Someone needs to post a picture of Catherine Simpson, so we can behold all her tattooed, gothy splendor. :) I think my favorite Fall album is The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall. That band used to get on my nerves -- partially because it seemed like everyone I knew who liked the Fall had musical tastes which I didn't respect -- but I eventually warmed up to them. Though I still know a guy who rates them as pretty much *the* ultimate band in history, and I have a real hard time understanding what his criteria might be. Eb PS Daryl Burtzos, you seem like someone whom we oughta hear from more often. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:55:23 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: The Goth question considered yet again In the mid-80s in high school I an dsome of my friends were into bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cult, New Order, The Cure, etc. This was before the "Alternative" label, which of course when it came about was anything but. So one day in high school I asked my friend what he tells people when they asked what kind of music he listened to. He said, "Fuck you." - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:20:25 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: Stuff >It's true some Live does sound like some REM. That's not to say they are >anywhere as good as REM. Very similar case is how much the Goo Goo Dolls >sound like the great Replacements records. Again they are not in the same >league. Did I claim either point? I think Live and the Goo Goo Dolls suck hard. >No kidding. Funkadelic, the Meters and Parliament on the list. That >brother's adding some soul to these here proceedings. And even better, he doesn't seem to have a fetish for "mouses." ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:34:02 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: wheeze wheeze >From: Catherine Simpson >Subject: RE: wheeze wheeze >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:21:29 -0700 > > >I just think Dylan should have kept > > > his mouth shut and let others sing his fine songs. Whaddya think? >What's > > > so compelling about Dylan that everyone overlooks the fact that he >can't > > > sing? Or Tom Verlaine, or Louie Armstrong or Howard Devoto or Johnny Rotten or Mark E. Smith or Pattie Smith or Dean Wareham or Ian Curtis or Guy Keyser or Ian Dury or Tom Waits.... Max _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:28:31 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: 40 from the 70s (2.5% RH content) on 6/26/03 1:01 PM, Daryl Burtzos at dburtzos@tbcnet.com wrote: > Steely Dan - Countdown to Ecstasy Really? I think that falls just ahead of Gaucho at the bottom of my SD rankings. I probably would have put Pretzel Logic in my list if I had thought of it at the time. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:41:54 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Golden Age of Grunge (sic) Jeffrey: >>what always irked me about so-called >>"grunge" is that the three most commercially popular exponents thereof >>(Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden) sound absolutely nothing like one >>another (except, perhaps, in being influenced by "the seventies" - which is to >>say, so broadly as to be meaningless). I'd love to see a breakdown of how that term shifted usage between, say, 1988 and 1993. I remember it being used to describe loud but shambolic bands, with guitar sounds that were less crunchy-distorted and more sludgey-blurry-distorted; ultra-precise "shredding" wasn't really part of it. Crazy Horse was the touchstone but you could also include the Stooges and some NYC punk bands; the contemporary version of it would've been Sonic Youth, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr et. al. When I first heard the term applied to the Seattle scene I only knew three of the bands so tagged: Mudhoney and Screaming Trees, both of whom kind of fit the model, and Soundgarden, who were metal-based but still at least a little sludgy early on. Then you got Nirvana, who still fit in depite a shinily produced record; all fine and well. Whiplash-inducing swish pan to me seeing the video for Pearl Jam's "Alive" and saying, "What the hell is this?"... it had less in common with Mudhoney than... well, not Whitesnake, precisely, but maybe Blind Melon or Galactic Cowboys? It was polished commercial hard rock with no discernible punk or countercultural nods other than perhaps the rasta hat the bass player was wearing. Not that there's anything *wrong* with that, but it was the pivot point from which the term "grunge" switched from meaning "skronky and kinda lo-fi" to "highly polished minor key heavy metal performed by guys who are pierced so you know they're alternative" in the Alice in Chains mode. Later on I sort of liked Pearl Jam when they decided to play out of key and subbed for Crazy Horse, but Vedder's vocal style still isn't my bag. Anyone else remember the "old grunge"? Or was it all just a dream? One more contradiction: I basically like Sebadoh and Folk Implosion but I strongly dislike the Beta Band, who are sometimes easily mistaken for Folk Implosion. - -Rex "ball of confusion" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:32:20 -0700 From: "Glen Uber" Subject: RE: Stuff Eb earnestly scribbled: >And even better, he doesn't seem to have a fetish for "mouses." ;) Hey! Be nice! ;) - -- Cheers! - -g- "Remember when you're out there trying to heal the sick that you must always first forgive them." --Bob Dylan, "Open The Door, Homer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:32:43 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Stuff on 6/26/03 1:14 PM, Iosso, Ken at Ken.Iosso@CO.RAMSEY.MN.US wrote: > Very similar case is how much the Goo Goo Dolls > sound like the great Replacements records. AAAHH! Blasphemer!!!! Granted, my current knowledge of the them is that there is a space in my brain marked "Goo Goo Dolls: Suck", but have they really done anything that sounds like Tim or Let It Be?? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:33:21 -0500 From: "Iosso, Ken" Subject: RE: Golden Age of Grunge (sic) My last post today: Grunge refers to wearing flannel shirts and living near Seattle (not in Minneapolis), not a musical style. Ken Iosso Aide to Commissioner Ortega phone 651-266-8367 fax 651-266-8370 -----Original Message----- From: Rex.Broome [mailto:Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 3:42 PM To: 'fegmaniax@smoe.org' Subject: Golden Age of Grunge (sic) Jeffrey: >>what always irked me about so-called >>"grunge" is that the three most commercially popular exponents thereof >>(Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden) sound absolutely nothing like one >>another (except, perhaps, in being influenced by "the seventies" - which is to >>say, so broadly as to be meaningless). I'd love to see a breakdown of how that term shifted usage between, say, 1988 and 1993. I remember it being used to describe loud but shambolic bands, with guitar sounds that were less crunchy-distorted and more sludgey-blurry-distorted; ultra-precise "shredding" wasn't really part of it. Crazy Horse was the touchstone but you could also include the Stooges and some NYC punk bands; the contemporary version of it would've been Sonic Youth, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr et. al. When I first heard the term applied to the Seattle scene I only knew three of the bands so tagged: Mudhoney and Screaming Trees, both of whom kind of fit the model, and Soundgarden, who were metal-based but still at least a little sludgy early on. Then you got Nirvana, who still fit in depite a shinily produced record; all fine and well. Whiplash-inducing swish pan to me seeing the video for Pearl Jam's "Alive" and saying, "What the hell is this?"... it had less in common with Mudhoney than... well, not Whitesnake, precisely, but maybe Blind Melon or Galactic Cowboys? It was polished commercial hard rock with no discernible punk or countercultural nods other than perhaps the rasta hat the bass player was wearing. Not that there's anything *wrong* with that, but it was the pivot point from which the term "grunge" switched from meaning "skronky and kinda lo-fi" to "highly polished minor key heavy metal performed by guys who are pierced so you know they're alternative" in the Alice in Chains mode. Later on I sort of liked Pearl Jam when they decided to play out of key and subbed for Crazy Horse, but Vedder's vocal style still isn't my bag. Anyone else remember the "old grunge"? Or was it all just a dream? One more contradiction: I basically like Sebadoh and Folk Implosion but I strongly dislike the Beta Band, who are sometimes easily mistaken for Folk Implosion. - -Rex "ball of confusion" Broome ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #239 ********************************