From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #229 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, June 22 2003 Volume 12 : Number 229 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: It's positively Alarming (0% RH) [Ken Weingold ] OT: looking for a game boy system [tanter@tarleton.edu] 100% conical ["Brian Huddell" ] Re: 100% conical [Ethyl Ketone ] Re: Luxor artwork [brian@lazerlove5.com] Backwards/Riley [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: 100% conical ["Stewart C. Russell" ] CDDB [Ken Weingold ] RE: CDDB ["FS Thomas" ] Prime Shagging ["FS Thomas" ] Re: CDDB [Ken Weingold ] Re: CDDB [Eb ] Re: CDDB [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: CDDB [Eb ] Re: CDDB ["Maximilian Lang" ] RE: CDDB ["Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" ] RE: LAUGH!!!! [Eb ] Re: CDDB [Eb ] RE: LAUGH!!!! [Eb ] RE: CDDB ["FS Thomas" ] RE: CDDB ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: CDDB [Ken Weingold ] Re: CDDB [Dolph Chaney ] toronto is safe ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: CDDB ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: CDDB [Ken Weingold ] Re: CDDB [Tom Clark ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:10:11 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: It's positively Alarming (0% RH) So is Coloursound officially over? I really liked the album a lot. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:46:00 -0500 (CDT) From: tanter@tarleton.edu Subject: OT: looking for a game boy system Sorry to bug you folks, but I'm wondering if any of you has a game boy advanced system lying around, not being used much, that you'd be willing to sell to a fellow feg..?? My 8 yr old is desperate and I can't bear the thought of spending $70 for a new one. I am checking ebay, but would rather stuff the coffers of one of you..... Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:50:14 -0500 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: 100% conical Anybody have cone-preservation tips they want to share? If you own a cone you've probably noticed how volatile the ink can be -- it doesn't take much to rub it off. I know I've seen my artist friends spraying something on painted surfaces to preserve them (shellac?) but I have no idea how well that would work on one of Robyn's cones. My cone is dusty and I'm afraid to clean it. Sometimes I can't sleep at night. +brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:13:06 +0200 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: 100% conical On Domenica, giu 22, 2003, at 05:50 Europe/Rome, Brian Huddell ha scritto: > Anybody have cone-preservation tips they want to share? If you own a > cone > you've probably noticed how volatile the ink can be -- it doesn't take > much > to rub it off. I know I've seen my artist friends spraying something > on > painted surfaces to preserve them (shellac?) but I have no idea how > well > that would work on one of Robyn's cones. My cone is dusty and I'm > afraid to > clean it. Sometimes I can't sleep at night. > > +brian > > Sorry for putting this on-list but it might be useful to all cone owners. What your artist friends are probably spraying on their work is either "fixative" or some kind of more permanent coating like "crystal clear" (name brand in the states). Fixative was developed for charcoal and pastel drawings, to "fix" the dust of the chalk. Some kinds of fixatives are termed "workable" not really the one you want for this. Crystal Clear and the like are polyurethane finishes that can leave a high sheen to the surface. My suggestion is to test the spray (which ever you choose) on another plastic surface with magic marker on it before spraying your cone. SOME sprays make SOME marker inks run. That would be most unpleasant. Shellac will run and has a tendency to turn things yellow. I'd stay away from anything that needs to be brushed on as the chance of running is greater and the chance of melting and running the marker ink is greater.. Fixative might be best. You can build up a protective coating by spraying light coats from about a foot away (do this in a well ventilated place!) and after 10 minutes or so, spray another light coat. Keep adding the light coats, waiting 10 - 30 minutes in between. Eventually you build up a surface that you could wipe the dust and not harm the image. And fixative does not leave a shiny coating like some of the polyurethane sprays. Anyway, always test before final usage! Hope this helps, - - c ************************************** "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." ************************************** C. Galbraith / Ketone Press meketone@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:11:27 +0000 (GMT) From: brian@lazerlove5.com Subject: Re: Luxor artwork I have no problem at all with the art work. I actually like it. Robyn looks great at 50 and his hair is better than ever (remember the Perpsex Island days?), so he might as well be remembered this way. I don't mind seeing Mr. Hitchcock smile. It's good to see our man happy. The only thing that would've been nice is a RH painting or some of his artwork, maybe more cones... but I like this do up much better than the art from Jewel for Sophia. What I can't understand is mankind. A very close friend of mine and a great saxaphone player, got jumped by 4 men on Saturday morning after leaving a party. These guys literally kicked the shit out of him, after catching him off guard while he was trying to get in his car. They broke his face up real good and really bruised up his ribs... It's so weird cos I was at that party to, all dancin and have fun, he must not have left long after we did... And another two of my friends just happened to be driving by when he saw 4 big guys kicking shit out of what they thought was a bum "Rodney King style." They stopped to help the bum and realized it was Jay. He almost hit these assholes with his car. Funny thing is that it was a random act, but one of the assholes happened to be the older half brother of one of my friends in the car. They all ran off and Jay was taken to the hospital were he spent the night. Now his face is so swollen and cut you can't even tell it's him. ya know, people can be pretty cruel. I can't believe those assholes took Eb's dad's money clip and such. I mean, come on! What the hell are you thinking? These are real people! Sorry to rant up, I know I don't usually speak up here unless it about RH, but it feels a little better typing this out. Nuppy > Greg: > >>i have never understood why he would put a bunch of pictures of > himself on > >>an album cover, sleeve or insert unless he enjoys looking at himself > and > >>is convinced everyone else is just as enamored. it has definately > become a > >>turn off in more ways than one. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:12:01 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Backwards/Riley >Hmmm...I'd believe "backwards," but upside down? It somehow manages to be in >the same key (C#m): I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen upside down (you'd >get some nonlinear "key" with a very weird scale). Anyway, John Lennon never >read music (although I'm pretty sure Yoko does). IIR the story C, John heard Yoko playing the Moonlight Sonata, went over to the piano and turned the score upside down, then asked her to play it again like that. >"If you're a fan of Terry Riley's early minimalist stuff, Barbara, then >you'd probably find Steve Reich and Phillip Glass equally rewarding... >if you don't already..." > >Thanks Matt. I do know Philip Glass, but not Steve Reich. Will look him >up! What I am most interested in is tracking down music trends right to >their source... it seems that Terry Riley was one of the earliest >composers working with electronic music. And of course John Cale was >right there with him, experimenting with sounds. you *might* also like Jon Hassell - less classical, but similarly inspired (FWIW, I'm not a big Hassell fan, but I can hear similarities). James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:31:02 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: 100% conical Brian Huddell wrote: > > Anybody have cone-preservation tips they want to share? If you want to dust it without touching it, there's always Dust-Off, that "air" (it looks suspiciously like Freon to me) in a can that photographers use for cleaning off transparencies. I'm not sure how compatible spray fix would be with spirit-based marker on polypropylene. I'd buy a cone at a toy shop, write on it in sharpie, fix it, and see what happens. I do wish Robyn would key his cones with steel wool before drawing on them. Stewart (who sold his cone before the move.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:39:11 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: CDDB Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? I was under the impression that it used the CD's unique ID or serial number for matching. I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB actually found it correctly! How did that happen? - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:46:27 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: RE: CDDB I was under the impression that CDDB (and freeDB, etc) used a combination of number of tracks, length of tracks, and the order of those lengths, to try to come up with a unique "match" for the disc. I've had the database return multiple hits on more than one occasion, with the musicians and/or album titles being worlds apart from one another. - -ferris. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf > Of Ken Weingold > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:39 PM > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: CDDB > > Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? I was under the > impression that it used the CD's unique ID or serial number for > matching. I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, > split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB > actually found it correctly! How did that happen? > > > -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:50:17 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Prime Shagging Want to catch a screening of the *delightful* 1968 sleeper hit, "Cucumber Castle"? Mosey to CA: http://www.modsandrockers.com/main.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:01:25 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: CDDB Huh. Part of what confuses me, then, is that when splitting from one huge file, it's up to you as far as the length of tracks where you split it. I guess that it has a window for each track then. - -Ken On Sun, Jun 22, 2003, FS Thomas wrote: > I was under the impression that CDDB (and freeDB, etc) used a > combination of number of tracks, length of tracks, and the order of > those lengths, to try to come up with a unique "match" for the disc. > > I've had the database return multiple hits on more than one occasion, > with the musicians and/or album titles being worlds apart from one > another. > > -ferris. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On > Behalf > > Of Ken Weingold > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:39 PM > > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > > Subject: CDDB > > > > Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? I was under the > > impression that it used the CD's unique ID or serial number for > > matching. I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, > > split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB > > actually found it correctly! How did that happen? > > > > > > -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:28:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: CDDB >Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? I was under the >impression that it used the CD's unique ID or serial number for >matching. I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, >split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB >actually found it correctly! How did that happen? I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. >IIR the story C, John heard Yoko playing the Moonlight Sonata, went over to >the piano and turned the score upside down, then asked her to play it again >like that. This story always sounded apocryphal to me. Yes, they're both in C# minor and maybe "Because" was inspired by goofing around with "Moonlight Sonata." But to claim it's actually a direct permutation of the piece? In "Moonlight Sonata," the central melodic figures are ascending three-note arpeggios. "Because" uses *eight*-note arpeggios which change direction twice. In "Moonlight Sonata," the chords generally change in six- and twelve-note periods, and in "Because," they change chords in eight- and sixteen-note periods. "Because" is in 4/4, and I assume "Moonlight Sonata" is written in 6/8. It's not simply the Beethoven piece "upside down." That "Mods & Rockers" festival sounds neat -- I'm very tempted! I've seen several of those films, but I'd certainly be interested to see "Joanna," "The Model Shop," "You Are What You Eat," the Nick Drake and Incredible String Band documentaries, "David Holzman's Diary," "The Buttercup Chain," "Taking Off," "My Dinner with Jimi" and especially "Gas-s-s-s-s." I've always been curious about the latter, and I still have the *soundtrack record* somewhere in my reject boxes. And yeah, the Bee Gees thing would be fun to see, too. I've also never been inside Grauman's Theater -- that's another minor lure. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:43:10 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: CDDB - -- Eb is rumored to have mumbled on Sonntag, 22. Juni 2003 13:28 Uhr -0700 regarding Re: CDDB: > I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the > CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the > song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you > play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. Yup. I don't *go* online, I *am* online. Also, the CDDB doesn't get accessed every time, because the info is stored locally. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:00:01 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: CDDB >>I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the >>CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the >>song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you >>play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. > >Yup. I don't *go* online, I *am* online. Also, the CDDB doesn't get >accessed every time, because the info is stored locally. And what if you wanna play a CD on, you know, one of them stereo-system dealies? I don't know how I never heard about this "Mods & Rockers" festival before. This year looks like the best year for rare, hard-to-see films, but it has been going since at least 1999? I saw some pretty tasty morsels on the previous years' schedules, too. Last year, they showed a film about the *Portsmouth Sinfonia*?! Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:06:05 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: CDDB >From: Eb >Subject: Re: CDDB >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:00:01 -0700 >>>I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the >>>CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the >>>song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you >>>play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. Ideal for labeling MP3s when ripping a disc. Saves mucho typing. Max _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:11:32 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: RE: CDDB Eb wrote in response to Sebastian: > >>I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the > >>CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the > >>song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you > >>play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. > > > >Yup. I don't *go* online, I *am* online. Also, the CDDB doesn't get > >accessed every time, because the info is stored locally. > > And what if you wanna play a CD on, you know, one of them > stereo-system dealies? Then you look at the CD case :-) I listen lots of music on the computer at work and it's nice to have CDDB feature on WinAmp so I don't have can see track titles when I don't have the case at work. I also find CDDB/freeDB features are very useful for making my own compilations CDs as I don't have to listen or figure out what tracks I want to rip to a WAV. Ditto for ripping albums to my hard drive, although at work I usually rip to .wma files as they are much smaller and I can't file share at work anyway. Jason, strangely enjoying work on Sunday afternoon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:27:02 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: LAUGH!!!! >I'm a historian. I just work in a library. I may be stuck in a library >forever, but I'm not a librarian. All right. You're not much fun today, D. :( I do honestly try to "entertain" you, you know? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:28:50 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: CDDB >>>>I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the >>>>CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the >>>>song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you >>>>play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. > >Ideal for labeling MP3s when ripping a disc. Saves mucho typing. Well, jeez, how many words are in the track listing of your average album? A whopping 30 or 40? Maybe if I couldn't type at all.... I jotted down some films to see, based on those archived Mods & Rockers schedules...added them to a reminder list I already had.... Pick a film you've seen, and comment on it. Any of 'em. Manos: The Hand of Fate Mickey One Two Lane Blacktop Girl on a Motorcycle Smashing Time The Committee The Jokers The Touchables Privilege I'll Never Forget What's 'Is Name Targets Gas-s-s-s-s Joanna The Model Shop Alex in Wonderland Wonderwall Deep End Taking Off The Rain People A Secret Place almost anything by Russ Meyer Salo Images Suspiria Savage Messiah Thelonious Monk: Straight, No Chaser Highway Patrolman Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:30:11 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: LAUGH!!!! >>I'm a historian. I just work in a library. I may be stuck in a library >>forever, but I'm not a librarian. > >All right. > >You're not much fun today, D. :( I do honestly try to "entertain" >you, you know? Oh jesus. How did I manage to send this to the Feglist? I don't think I've EVER done that before! Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:50:13 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: RE: CDDB > Pick a film you've seen, and comment on it. Any of 'em. > ... > I'll Never Forget What's 'Is Name I don't know *what* it is, but I love the name! - -ferris. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:05:07 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: CDDB >From: "FS Thomas" >Subject: RE: CDDB >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:50:13 -0400 EB > > Pick a film you've seen, and comment on it. Any of 'em. > > ... > > I'll Never Forget What's 'Is Name FST >I don't know *what* it is, but I love the name! MEL This film stars Oliver Reed and Orson Welles, IIRC it is about advertising. It is one of the few good films Orson was to act in in the 60's. I recall it being pretty good. It pops up on TV every now and then. It has some amusing fantasy sequences. Max _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:33:14 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: CDDB On Sun, Jun 22, 2003, Eb wrote: > I must confess that I've never understood why anyone cares about the > CDDB. Uh...why do they? You don't want the hassle of writing down the > song titles, but it's no trouble at all to go *online* every time you > play a CD? I don't get it. I'm missing something. I'm always online. I have DSL. And do you have something like an iPod? Put your CD in the drive, almost instantly names all the tracks and such, rip it, transfer to iPod. And as was said, it's only once that it downloads the info. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:25:24 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: CDDB At 04:28 PM 6/22/2003, you wrote: >Pick a film you've seen, and comment on it. Any of 'em. Had to pick 2: >Manos: The Hand of Fate Admittedly, I've only seen it on MST3K, but it's an astonishing achievement. Joel, Tom Servo, and Crow are mesmerized and can't 'zing' it after about 30 minutes. And I think, for a period of one (1) year, all Hollywood villains should be required to have ridiculous misshapen knees, in tribute to Torgo. You know the cliche about watching a trainwreck? Among my friends, the cliche is "it's like watching 'Manos'". >Thelonious Monk: Straight, No Chaser Also riveting. I've seen it twice, and it's just amazing to watch him spin (in fact, when I hear "Bailey's Walk" by the Pixies, I see scenes from this movie in my head). I'm a total sucker for muso-documentaries, and this is one of the first that got me hooked. The performance and recording footage is very revealing. In every musician documentary in the recording era, there's a scene with an argument in the studio over interpretation or botched takes ("Let It Be," "I Am Trying To Break Your Heart," "This Is Spinal Tap"...). In this one, Monk goes after Charlie Rouse (his stalwart tenor sax man), but because it's Monk, he just kind of goes "woooo" at him. And Rouse (and Teo Macero) GET it. dolph nd: Speyburn 10-year (not very good) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:23:29 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: toronto is safe It is filled with librarians, for the first joint ALA/CLA conference for 80 years. You can't move for people determined to live by the Dewey Decimal System. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:31:10 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: CDDB Ken Weingold wrote: > Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? that it was a system that reied on loads of people keying in the data for free until GraceNote swiped the copyright? That freedb.org is more fun? That CDIndex was technically better, but is now dead? > I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, > split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB > actually found it correctly! Someone must've split the tracks in exactly the same place, and uploaded their CD info. I thought it used 1 frame (1/75 second) accuracy to build up a hash of track lengths, so either I'm wrong or there's a spooky coincidence going on. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:38:11 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: CDDB On Sun, Jun 22, 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, > >split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB > >actually found it correctly! > > Someone must've split the tracks in exactly the same place, and uploaded > their CD info. I thought it used 1 frame (1/75 second) accuracy to build > up a hash of track lengths, so either I'm wrong or there's a spooky > coincidence going on. There must be a window that it allows. Now at least three CDs I have made from records have worked. We Have Come For Your Childres from the Dead Boys, The Drama Of Alienation from J Church, and New Day Rising from Husker Du. It's freakin' me out, man! :) - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:47:20 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: CDDB On 6/22/03 10:39 AM, "Ken Weingold" wrote: > Okay, what do you guys know about the CDDB? I was under the > impression that it used the CD's unique ID or serial number for > matching. I took a Dead Boys record, digitized it to the computer, > split it into tracks, and burned a CD of it. Put it in and the CDDB > actually found it correctly! How did that happen? > The algorithm is based solely on the CD's TOC, or Table of Contents, which basically is a data structure at the very beginning of a CD that lists the number of tracks and where they can be found. And it's patented, so don't you go trying to write your own CD identification algorithm based on the CD's TOC, or those guys will come down hard on you. I have first hand knowledge of this. Another cool technology is Audible Magic. Their ID scheme is based on the waveform of the track, so they could theoretically identify every track on a mix CD, one by one. They have a cool demo where they plug an FM radio into a computer running their software and ID the songs as they're being played. - -tc ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #229 ********************************