From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #198 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, June 3 2003 Volume 12 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Mr Seligman asks...(0%RH, 100%MS) ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: Matrix Requailed [Eb ] RE: Matrix Requailed [Catherine Simpson ] MatrixReduned ["Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" ] Re: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Googlism [Eb ] Re: NYTimes.com Article: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Batshit crazy reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan [The Great Quail Subject: Re: Mr Seligman asks...(0%RH, 100%MS) >From: stevetalkowski@mac.com >Subject: Re: Mr Seligman asks...(0%RH, 100%MS) > >Hey Mary! > >On Sunday, June 1, 2003, at 03:00 PM, Mary wrote: > > >Does he simply want to take 2d stills and move them around the screen? >Or, is he going to be drawing multiple frames and outputting them as an >animated sequence (the more traditional, 2d cel animation approach - >tell him to think "flipbooks"). A couple of years back I did the win16 to win32 port of a thing called AXA which worked very much on the traditional cel animation paradigm, layers of cels, peg boards, camera positions and the like. I never used it seriously but had fun with the flying space squid from the tutorial. I believe it was used for the Casper kiddie cartoon. Brian _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:20:45 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: the cost of war ooh my allahyahwehjehovahdylan, plus that redhead i met in austria. when will it end? this is just too fucking brutal. I mean, when people have to start washing their own clothes and actually cooking for themselves, you know it's gone too far. when is enough, enough? i'm starting to feel so sorry for the hussein family. why don't we start a pledge drive? we could start by auctioning off any remaining human shields. i mean that would suck if there were any left, but we could justify the sale based on their failure and think of all the water we would save. LONDON, England (CNN) -- Two of Saddam Hussein's daughters want to apply for asylum in the UK, according to press reports Monday. The daughters have to wash their own clothes and cook their meals. http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/06/02/sprj.irq.law.saddam.daughters /index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:40:59 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) I so very much wanted to take my older daughter to "Finding Nemo" this weekend. She likes fish, I like fish. We're both Pisces. She knows fish names better than barnyard animals. Clownfish & anemones have been personal totems of min for years. The film looks great from everything I've seen; they seem to have spent as much time on the unique properties of light & visibility in seawater as anything else. But alas we were all pathetically sick so no moviegoing for us. However with that best-ever-animated-film-opening, I guess it'll be around for a while. As a substitute we finally watched the copy of "Shrek" that we accidentally got from Columbia House at some dimly remembered point. A few laughs but really no great shakes even by my lowered expectations... the smugness overpowered all else and it sure wasn't a patch on anything Pixar's ever done. Particularly annoying was the Dreamworks Records Greatest Hits soundtrack... yeah, I just bet that Eels tune was their first choice. The power of marketing dollars, man. I never ever realized that "Rock of the Westies" was a... pun or spoonerism or whatever it is. Goes to show that I am dumb or don't pay much attention to Elton John or both. One for sure. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:39:36 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) OK, Rex, for the first time, I'm disappointed in you -- I realized that "Rock of the Westies" was a play on "West of the Rockies" back when it came out, and I was only 11 or 12 then ;) In fact, it was recorded at Caribou Ranch in Colorado, as were several of his other mid-70's albums, which provided an actual reference point for the album title, since Caribou Ranch is in the Rocky Mountains. Aw, hell, maybe no one else recognized the word-play except us Colorado kids... Catherine - -----Original Message----- From: Rex.Broome [mailto:Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:41 AM To: 'fegmaniax@smoe.org' Subject: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) I never ever realized that "Rock of the Westies" was a... pun or spoonerism or whatever it is. Goes to show that I am dumb or don't pay much attention to Elton John or both. One for sure. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:00:53 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: RE: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) >>OK, Rex, for the first time, I'm disappointed in you -- I realized that >>"Rock of the Westies" was a play on "West of the Rockies" back when it came >>out, and I was only 11 or 12 then ;) I know. It's obnoxiously obvious. I don't really know the record but was aware of that title as something in John's back catalog. I'd defend myself with knowledge of arcane titles for albums recorded in West Virginia, but there aren't any. - -Rex "but the Kinks do mention it in a song and stuff" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Rex.Broome wrote: > The film looks great from everything I've seen; they seem to have spent > as much time on the unique properties of light & visibility in seawater > as anything else. I didn't like it quite as much as Monsters, Inc. but much more than Toy Story (only two Pixar movies I've seen). Definitely worth seeing. The humans still look totally unnatural, though, which makes me less than excited about the other Pixar movie whose trailer ran before Nemo ("Mr. Incredible" or something similar). Possibly my favorite thing about it, though, is that the one joke I remember from the trailer wasn't exactly in the movie! It was another case - -- I feel like I've only started seeing this lately -- of the trailer editing together stuff that doesn't actually happen consecutively in the movie to construct a different gag. It's bizarre, but it avoids the unpleasant feeling of thinking, "That would have been pretty funny if I hadn't seen it a hundred times already in ads." a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:51:46 -0400 (EDT) From: stevetalkowski@mac.com Subject: NYTimes.com Article: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by stevetalkowski@mac.com. Here's a good take on why The Matrix Reloaded bites. - -Steve stevetalkowski@mac.com /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Explore more of Starbucks at Starbucks.com. http://www.starbucks.com/default.asp?ci=1015 \----------------------------------------------------------/ A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan June 1, 2003 By PHILIP GRAHAM WHEN my 16-year-old son and I left the multiplex on opening night of "The Matrix Reloaded," he shook his head in disappointment - the same slow, sad gesture he'd made four years ago as we left the theater after seeing "Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace." No, the Wachowski brothers hadn't perpetrated anything as egregious as Jar-Jar Binks. But they had still dropped the ball, big time, and all that anticipation for "The Matrix Reloaded" now seemed like a bad fever dream. I know it's too late for my comments to be of any help. The movie's out, the third installment is already in the can. But what's really been bothering me - what I can't stop thinking about - is how much better the film would have been with just a few well-targeted tweaks. Wachowski brothers: if you ever get a chance to reload your own movie, perhaps these modest suggestions might assist you.  Keep the nasty industrial grind music. It worked perfectly for the first movie. In "Reloaded," something techno and rude occasionally rears its ugly head, but it's too often drowned out by an orchestra and a cloying heavenly choir. When the score starts copping Igor Stravinsky and Philip Glass, the pretension just begs to be beaten with a sheaf of batons. Granted, the "Matrix" movies are designed to be pretentious, with all those dopey names like Morpheus and Trinity (and how about, for future films, Piety, or Eucharist, or Pompous?). But they should be a cool kind of pretentious, with more scary guitars and such in the background.  Get us out of Zion, and fast. Cut the beginning by at least 20 minutes. No one cares about the petty rivalries in this underground outpost of humanity. Remember: gray-haired elders intoning wisdom equals narrative death. If we have to be in Zion, keep the sets small and constricted. Zion is just too unbelievably big. It doesn't seem vulnerable, doesn't enlist our sympathy for this put-upon rebel community. As for that interminable group-grope of a dance, it's such a slow-moving target that I needn't say another word.  Scare us, please. Let's see much more of those Machine-Spider-Thingies, as they bear down on Zion. Their ominous advance is the equivalent of that hoary old movie stand-by, the ticking clock. Keep reminding us, visually, that the nasty, tentacled gizmos are getting closer and closer. We shouldn't have to wait until nearly the end of the second hour for our first glimpse of them.  Speaking of scare tactics, I have to admit that the Merovingian's programmed food is a good one. When he sends the chocolate cake to the blonde, we worry that perhaps something worse than weight gain is about to happen to her. When she sighs with pleasure, we feel relieved - and then we squirm, unsettled by the creepy, rape-like encounter. This programming trick is one of the few effective new ideas in "Reloaded" - and I wish you'd done more with it. What else could programmed food do to the unsuspecting in the Matrix? Develop this, and even the seemingly innocent sight of a granola bar on a coffee table would keep the audience edgy.  Since we're on the subject of dramatic tension: despite its technical wizardry, the fight scene you call the "Burly Brawl," with all those Agent Smiths, is still lame, and for a simple reason. There's no point to it. The scene seems plopped down in the movie for no apparent reason, except as a special-effects interlude. It didn't have to be this way: the first Agent Smith arrives right after Neo's interview with the Oracle, once she's safely returned to that hidden corridor with her bodyguard. But if Agent Smith and company were to arrive before her escape, then Neo - and the Oracle's bodyguard - could fight to protect her from the malevolent carbon copies of Agent Smith. With this one added stroke, there would be something at risk, something to lose - and dramatic point to the mayhem.  Which brings me to my next suggestion: make Neo vulnerable. Would it kill Neo to react just a teeny bit more as the Smith posse keeps replicating? I know we're talking Keanu Reeves here, but surely the man is capable of widening his eyes, dropping his jaw, wrinkling his brow as it becomes clear that there's no end in sight to all those SmithSmithSmithSmithSmithSmiths. Otherwise, all his impressive fighting skills appear to be nothing more than a round of calisthenics, a dutiful workout to limber him up before he flies away. In "Reloaded," Neo should have to struggle to control and focus his new skills, so the audience can worry about and root for him. And if Neo does make mistakes, then it would finally make sense that some of the Zionites doubt that Neo is indeed the One.  Finally, when Neo meets the Architect, it shouldn't look as if they're having a rendezvous in the high-definition flat-screen department of Best Buy. More important, the Architect spills all the metaphysical beans right at the end of the movie. If Neo had at least an inkling earlier of what would eventually be revealed, and if his growing suspicions fueled his actions, then - and I just hate to repeat myself - there would be more dramatic tension. Remember: You once knew all of this. I'm certain of it - I saw the first "Matrix" movie. You know, that stylish flick you made in the previous century, before snack-food commercials imitated your special-effects moves, before the fashion industry borrowed your look for a season or two, before an academic industry pried into every nook and cranny of your film stock, before you started wasting your time developing video games, way before it was impossible to find a single person on the Warner Brothers lot who was willing to say, before it was too late, that your new movie stinks. P.S. Is that why there are so many Smiths in the phone book? Philip Graham is a fiction writer who teaches at the University of Illinois. An early version of this article appeared on themorningnews.com. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/movies/01GRAH.html?ex=1055587106&ei=1&en=d7eecd92a2cce271 - --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here: http://www.nytimes.com/ads/nytcirc/index.html HOW TO ADVERTISE - --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:08:20 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 04:41 PM, Aaron Mandel wrote: > I didn't like it quite as much as Monsters, Inc. but much more than Toy > Story (only two Pixar movies I've seen). Have you seen Toy Story 2? Definitely check that one out. > The humans still look totally unnatural, though, Agreed. Again, it's a conscious stylization they employ to enhance the non-human characters. > which makes me less than excited about the other Pixar movie whose > trailer ran before Nemo ("Mr. > Incredible" or something similar). The Incredibles. And what was apparent from the trailer is that they ARE treating the humans in a totally different fashion than what they have been up to this point. That's what has me jazzed to see it. Granted, the humans in our film, Ice Age, were highly stylized too (and not all of the motion was "realistic"), but remember, it's hard convincing real humans to believe in CG versions, even when they are pushed to hyper-realism (as they were in Final Fantasy). The audience has to make the leap into believing whatever stylized representation is presented and not get hung up on the details. It's a tough thing to pull off. It's also highly subjective and some interpretations are more successful than others. Also, don't forget that it's ANIMATION. It's not supposed to be totally real - that's the magic of it. Now, with that said I can't wait to see how ILM pulls off the Hulk. Yes, he's human, but he's Super human and should move in ways that we remember him from reading a 2-d comic. Everyone will have their own opinion on this, as was the case with Spiderman. > Possibly my favorite thing about it, though, is that the one joke I > remember from the trailer wasn't exactly in the movie! It was another > case > -- I feel like I've only started seeing this lately -- of the trailer > editing together stuff that doesn't actually happen consecutively in > the > movie to construct a different gag. It's bizarre, but it avoids the > unpleasant feeling of thinking, "That would have been pretty funny if I > hadn't seen it a hundred times already in ads." Ok, so you spent an entire paragraph complaining about it but never mentioned WHICH GAG?? - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:09:07 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Matrix Requailed > Here's a good take on why The Matrix Reloaded bites. Hmmmm...it was by far one of my favorite big-budget films in a while. I saw it as a hybrid of The Matrix meets Dune* meets Neuromancer.... I've seen it twice already, and would happily go a third time.... - --Quail *The Zion stuff was TOTALLY Dune: Neo=Muad'dib, Trinity=Chani, and Morpheus=Stilgar. Hell, there was even a Sietch orgy!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:23:01 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Matrix Requailed > > Here's a good take on why The Matrix Reloaded bites. >Hmmmm...it was by far one of my favorite big-budget films in a while. I saw >it as a hybrid of The Matrix meets Dune* meets Neuromancer.... I've seen it >twice already, and would happily go a third time.... Ugh. I saw "About a Boy" over the weekend. Comic books, animation, sci-fi. I thought most of it was exceptionally well-written. I was totally captivated, throughout the bulk of the film. Comic books, animation, sci-fi. But then the climax really let me down. It was as if the Hollywood script doctors finally broke into the conference room, and forcibly inserted that terrible "Killing Me Softly" scene and the sappy "It's a year later, and everybody's all happy and stuff now" denouement. Comic books, animation, sci-fi. That left an unfortunate bad taste in my mouth, and the film definitely loses a half-grade as a result. Eb (I have employed a deviously subtle trick to get people to read this entire post, but I doubt any of you will be able to spot it!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:25:39 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Matrix Requailed Hmm... very reminiscent of the old Kevin Nealon "Subliminal Man" skit on SNL :) Catherine - -----Original Message----- From: Eb [mailto:ElBroome@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:23 PM To: fgz Subject: Re: Matrix Requailed >>(I have employed a deviously subtle trick to get people to read this entire post, but I doubt any of you will be able to spot it!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:26:01 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: MatrixReduned > *The Zion stuff was TOTALLY Dune: Neo=Muad'dib, Trinity=Chani, and > Morpheus=Stilgar. Hell, there was even a Sietch orgy!!! I could not agree more especially trinity/chani's roles in grounding neo/paul. But it's all very archetypal so who knows if it was direct or intentional. Also I just the Animatrix on the big screen at the Seattle International Film Festival and the shorts The Second Rennaissance Parts 1 and 2 totally layout the back story and are very reminiscent of the events leading up to the Butlerian Jihad in Dune's back story. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:26:25 +0100 From: "Charlotte Tupman" Subject: Re: beginner guitar advice Hi Mike, My best advice would be: don't play for more than a few minutes at a time to start with. Your fingers need time to develop the hardened skin, so be kind to them and give them a chance! Some people swear by white spirit (have I got that right??!! It sounds a bit odd...) Charlotte > >Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:53:55 -0400 >From: mike hooker >Subject: off topic: need beginner guitar advice > >hi, > i'm teaching myself to play guitar and could use some advice. so far, >i've learned a few chords, but the problem is the lack of callouses on my >fingertips. the pain i can deal with, the problem is that without hardened >fingertips, i have to press so hard the strings embed themselves in the >tips and the finger mushes out a bit , contacting the nearby string. at >that >point, the chord sounds like shit. do i just play until they eventually >come, or is there any guitar players tip for accelerating the callous >building process. > >thanks much > >have fun, >Mike Hooker > >please see my music trading list at: >http://hometown.aol.com/mhooker216/myhomepage/index.html >being AOL, its doesnt always work. try later, or ask for a list _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Steve Talkowski wrote: > > The humans still look totally unnatural, though, > > Agreed. Again, it's a conscious stylization they employ to enhance > the non-human characters. Well, conscious stylization or not, it looks funny. I mean, I don't know, I watched cartoons on Saturday morning as a kid and I don't remember ever once thinking "those people walk funny" even though they must have all been heavily stylized too. > Ok, so you spent an entire paragraph complaining about it but never > mentioned WHICH GAG?? It was the one where the stoner turtle says something and the Albert Brooks fish whispers to his friend, "I think he's trying to talk to us." a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:20:32 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Animated fish etc. (have given up on boobs) On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 12:40 PM, Rex.Broome wrote: > I so very much wanted to take my older daughter to "Finding Nemo" this > weekend. Pixar has given up on the boobs as well. They toned down the curves on the girls in the old short that shows before the film. - - Steve __________ Members of the Christ Community Church in Alamogordo, N.M., burned Harry Potter books, Star Wars items and works by Shakespeare and J.R.R. Tolkien, USA Today reported. Pastor Jack Brock called the Potter books "a masterpiece of satanic deception [that teaches] children how they can get into witchcraft." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: Googlism have you guys seem this? it's a search engine that apparently uses Google to find concise information bits. All it could tell me about myself was "bayard catron has retired from academic life", but check out all it had to say about Mr H! Here's a few samples: robyn hitchcock is god robyn hitchcock is an entertaining mixture of live and promo footage robyn hitchcock is a cult robyn hitchcock is based on this urge robyn hitchcock is my favorite rock robyn hitchcock is porn robyn hitchcock is as wordy as they get robyn hitchcock is also part of the crew robyn hitchcock is known amongst fegmaniax for his collectible cone art robyn hitchcock is the one robyn hitchcock is also on the record robyn hitchcock is certainly one ugly broad robyn hitchcock is another of my favourites robyn hitchcock is tomorrow night Out of context, the information has potential to amuse. Here's the link to the robyn search: http://googlism.com/index.htm?ism=robyn+hitchcock&type=1 (Scroll down past the ads.) =b - -- "It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare, that they are difficult." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:24:37 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Googlism >have you guys seem this? it's a search engine that apparently uses Google >to find concise information bits. Damn...is anyone even reading this list anymore? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:53:57 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan Quoting stevetalkowski@mac.com: > This article from NYTimes.com > has been sent to you by stevetalkowski@mac.com. > A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan > > June 1, 2003 > By PHILIP GRAHAM > > >  Keep the nasty industrial grind music. Right - because no one's *ever* used that kind of music in spooky, dark, sci-fi -type movies before. I haven't seen the movie yet...but the ads' use of such music made me think, oh great, another movie that thinks I want my skull pounded in with obvious musical cueing... Re the _Dune_ comparison...I don't remember; I last read _Dune_ sometime in my teens, and didn't like it much even then. But the whole Matrix thing strikes me as a bald-faced William Gibson ripoff...in which context, "Zion" is even more of a Gibson rip. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:23:43 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Pencil-necked reap Fred Blassie. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Batshit crazy reap Charles Doty, the batshit crazy (though endearingly and harmlessly so) five-time presidential candidate profiled on the Daily Show. ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:04:51 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan Jeffrey writes, > Right - because no one's *ever* used that kind of music in spooky, dark, > sci-fi -type movies before. Well, to be fair, "The Matrix" sort of set the standard. It might not have been the first, but it certainly became the movie most identified with the trend, just as "A Clockwork Orange" set the standard for an ironic juxtaposition of classical music with ultra-violence. (Though "The Godfather" certainly deserves some credit, too!) > I haven't seen the movie yet...but the ads' use of such music made me think, > oh great, another movie that thinks I want my skull pounded in with obvious > musical cueing... It's not that bad, I thought -- though the Sietch orgy scene was rather like a music video, which isn't a bad thing -- after all, cinema *invented* the music video.... Long live Ken Russell! ;) I for one don't mind style in a movie, as long as it has substance, and I think "Matrix Reloaded" had both. The Don Davis score is his usual rip-off of swirling, Philip Glass arpeggios mixed with dense, spiky chord clusters. It gets a bit annoying at times, but there's a certain texture to it which I have come to identify with the claustrophobic, frozen-glass black & green world of The Matrix. Like the Howard Shore soundtrack to "The Lord of the Rings," I find it gets better on repeat listening. Or at least, more distinctive and defining...? >But the whole Matrix thing > strikes me as a bald-faced William Gibson ripoff...in which context, "Zion" > is even more of a Gibson rip. I think it's unfair to call it a Gibson rip-off, and I don't see "Zion" as a rip-off at all, unless you refer to Neuromancer's Rasta space station, which is totally different except in mythic name. After all, Gibson wasn't creating in a vacuum, either. Not only was the Cyberpunk aesthetic co-developed by Bruce Sterling, Walter Jon Williams, and Alec Effinger as well, but the idea of machine-generated artificial realities and rogue AIs has a long history -- from Star Trek to Philip K. Dick to Isaac Asimov and Ray Bradbury.... But having said that, yeah, it's obvious that Gibson's world of cyberspace bears the closest similarity to The Matrix itself. But then, even his "Aleph," the Matrix-like artificial universe from "Count Zero," was a nod to Borges.... - --Quail np: a kick-ass Rush bootleg from Chicago -- thanks, Michael! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:51:27 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: people who cook live animals, suck ok, so it doesn't help much if at all and the lobsters are still going to be boiled alive while people stand around and listen to them scream, but it makes a good point. Man Feeds Lobsters at Supermarket CANANDAIGUA, N.Y. (AP) - Joel Freedman grew upset at seeing lobsters, with rubber bands on their claws, piled atop one another in a supermarket tank. The animal-rights advocate figured it was time to make his anger known. Freedman bought a pound of scallops and, before anyone could intervene, lifted the tank lid and dumped them in. http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1120&idq=/ff/story /0001%2F20030603%2F054229545.htm&sc=1120 ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #198 ********************************