From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #152 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, April 22 2003 Volume 12 : Number 152 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: bi cycles [Catherine Simpson ] Re: Showtime - NOT [Tom Clark ] Re: rip/bi cycles [gshell@metronet.com] Re: Books about humdinger bisexuals [Tom Clark ] If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? ["Rex.Broome" ] Elvis on TV ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: back to bisexuality [Barbara Soutar ] Re: rip/bi cycles ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? [Aaron Mandel ] Re: rip/bi cycles [gshell@metronet.com] Whoa, tiger! ["Rex.Broome" ] RE: Back to bisexuality [Eb ] Re: Showtime - NOT [Jeff Dwarf ] holes (the movie) etc. ["ross taylor" ] Re: Showtime - NOT [Steve Talkowski ] Re: If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? [gshe] Re: Fox Sports [Tom Clark ] Fear of a bi planet [Brian Cully ] Re: back to bisexuality [Brian Cully ] Grooving on a bi plane ["Rex.Broome" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:18:49 -0700 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: bi cycles Jason Thornton said: >>I used to date a girl that was quite definitely bi. She was quite hesitant >>to bring up the subject of her past relationships/experiences with women, >>because the vast majority of the straight men she had dated before me would >>get "really offended" by it. My experience is that far from being offended, they're usually TOO intrigued. Once a straight man knows that you're a bisexual woman, he just wants to "get it on" with you AND your girlfriend ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:51:08 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Showtime - NOT on 4/22/03 7:01 AM, Steve Talkowski at stevetalkowski@mac.com wrote: > Here's the word from my Showtime contact: > >> Hey Steve, >> >> Unfortunately, Showtime websites can't be seen outside the US because >> we >> only have US distribution rights to our shows. We have international >> distributors who buy rights for other countries and legally we can't >> infringe on their rights to advertise and promote the shows in their >> regions. >> Steve, please forward this to your Showtime contact: What a complete crock of shit. If you're going to have a web site, you better damn well make it available "world wide". Crying about international distribution rights is a fucking cop-out. If you can't alter your site for worldwide viewing, you should take it offline. - -tc, prouder than ever to be an HBO subscriber. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:55:00 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: Re: rip/bi cycles NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- Felice Bryant, who with her late husband wrote "Bye Bye Love" and other Everly Brothers hits and the hand-clapping bluegrass standard "Rocky Top," died Tuesday. She was 77. Bryant, who had been diagnosed with cancer, died at her Gatlinburg home, said Caroline Davis, spokeswoman for the songwriters licensing agency BMI. Her husband, Boudleaux, who died in 1987, and she wrote or co-wrote 800 recorded songs cut by more than 500 vocalists. Their songs have accounted for approximately 500 million in sales. Some of their other big hits include the Everlys' "Wake Up Little Susie," "We Could," recorded by various artists including Jim Reeves and Al Martino, and "Raining in My Heart," recorded by Buddy Holly, Dean Martin and Ray Price. Others who recorded songs by the Bryants included Elvis Presley, the Beatles, Bob Dylan, the Grateful Dead, the Beach Boys, Tony Bennett, Simon & Garfunkel, Ray Charles, Roy Orbison and Sarah Vaughan........ http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/22/obit.bryant.ap/index.html On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > --Jason "yeah, sure, I'd fuck a chair" Thornton vulcans look like much more fun. i wonder if there are any bisexual vulcan girls? i'd do a klingon and i think i could roger a romulan too. i wonder if a human has ever been seduced by an alien? gSs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:02:21 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Books about humdinger bisexuals on 4/22/03 8:11 AM, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. at gene@hopstetter.com wrote: > http://www.continuumbooks.com/ > series_details.cgi?sid=311&ssid=642C0351PCB4B88CWK9FEP I just rented some similar DVDs. I think they're called The Classic Album series. I'm only part way into the first one, Steely Dan's "Aja", and it's pretty good. Becker and Fagen at the mixing board with the original tapes, talking about the individual players and how their parts were recorded. There're also interviews with the players themselves, some 25 years after the sessions. I also got "Rumours" and "The Band". on 4/22/03 8:56 AM, gshell@metronet.com at gshell@metronet.com wrote: > of course the people who claim they are talking to the dead and then > charge for the service. the humdinger as that there are fools who pay. > those people should not be allowed to have children, operate a motorized > vehicle, own a gun, vote or swim in a public pool. That about sums that up! on 4/22/03 10:18 AM, Catherine Simpson at csimpson@tvn.com wrote: > My experience is that far from being offended, they're usually TOO > intrigued. Once a straight man knows that you're a bisexual woman, he just > wants to "get it on" with you AND your girlfriend ;) Again, not that there's anything wrong with that! - -t "the roommate's into it..." c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:17:03 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? Barbara: >>Now that I've managed to offend several people with my criticism of the >>concept of bisexuality, I'll explain what I meant. This orientation >>seems to be a recent invention... everyone I have met who claims to be >>bisexual is gay. Not That There's Anything Wrong With That. I guess I >>just would prefer that a person choose one sex or the other. The >>ambivalence must be painful for all who are romantically involved. Well, now that this has been explained, I'll state for the record that "I'm Not Down With That" and move on. Jason T: >>On this subject, I remember an interview with Michael Stipe where he talked >>about the flack he got from some people in the gay community when he came >>out as being bisexual. According to him, more than a few people felt that >>bisexuals were just fooling themselves, that bisexuals were really just >>gays who were afraid or unwilling to fully commit to a fully homosexual >>orientation. That's gotta be vexing, although it seems to be a fairly common viewpoint amongst gay men (mostly). I think it's projection to a certain extent, since a lot of gays probably *have* gone through a stage of calling themselves, or thinking of themselves as, "bisexual" before coming "all the way out" due to whatever cultural factors might apply. But I can't see how that should mean that *everyone* who identifies as bi is really gay. Thery aren't. As I mentioned before it seems to me that most bi-identifying men settle down with men, as do most bi-identifying women, and I have a number of theories as to why, culturally, it shakes down that way, but they're really just idle speckle-ation. Jeff D: > Anyone else here find it odd that the bisexual debate comes > up AFTER Drew leaves? And yet, the Goth debate somehow slumbers still... gSs: >>oh yeah, must be a conspiracy. and anyone who can explain this conspiracy >>gets to have sex with me, under pending conditions. ask for details. I think we can make an educated guess as to the conditions/positions, but must we also prove ourselves to be deities or other religious figures? >>Catherine (stepping off her soap-box!) Oh, that weren't too soap-boxy, I don't think. The only thing that's shocking about your lifestyle is how the hell y'all find the time and scheduling wherewithal to keep it up! With the two kids, I hardly have the time to socialize with my closest friends, let alone schedule any private, intimate time with them. Hell, it's hard enough to manage that with my wife! Admittedly you have one fewer child and he's older than either of mine, but still, I bow to your abilities with the itinerary. By the way, how are your "porn clients" these days? Sadly, all of mine have pulled out. If you know what I mean. - -Rex, who just heard some weird piano based cover of Ride's "Vapour Trail" by a band from Orange County, and that's weird, innit? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:08:14 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Showtime - NOT Quoting Tom Clark : > on 4/22/03 7:01 AM, Steve Talkowski at stevetalkowski@mac.com wrote: > > >> Unfortunately, Showtime websites can't be seen outside the US because > >> we > >> only have US distribution rights to our shows. We have international > >> distributors who buy rights for other countries and legally we can't > >> infringe on their rights to advertise and promote the shows in their > >> regions. > > What a complete crock of shit. If you're going to have a web site, you > better damn well make it available "world wide". Crying about > international > distribution rights is a fucking cop-out. If you can't alter your site > for > worldwide viewing, you should take it offline. What's frustrating here is the way this is another example of increasingly broad definitions of corporate property rights. Some years back, there was some sort of legal hullaballoo (I forget exactly the form it took, or the parties involved) surrounding a website that simply reported the scores of NBA games. The NBA (or whoever) claimed that such information was proprietary! This is taking the concept of "rights" deep into the heart of absurdity (actually, Joss Whedon fans might note that Lorne's anatomy provides a better figure of speech here...). The Showtime argument is pretty damned close: actually I think the real reason is that, since other entities own non-US rights to the shows their website promotes, they don't want to promote shows that actually compete with their own products in other nations. That is, if the Penn & Teller show is on another network in Canada, any Canadian going to Showtime's website for info on P&T is actually encouraged to watch *that* channel *instead of* Showtime. Still, the logical extension of this is never to advertise anything: I mean, instead of watching P&T, I might go buy one of their books and not watch Showtime. Instead of buying one of their books, I might go and learn how to do magic. Or I might go out and ridicule New Age idiots myself (including the ones who have other Showtime series...). Thing is, you can never ensure that your own promotional message doesn't, to some degree, also promote something else that competes with you. Until recently, advertisers (if they were aware of this) simply accepted it: an ad for one beer is also an ad for beer in general, but what are you going to do about that? Still, it seems foolish to me to restrict access to a site - although it's likely not Showtime's doing but the doing of those other shows' rights owners (who don't want Showtime promoted at the expense of whatever network broadcasts their show in, say, Paraguay). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:11:04 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Elvis on TV Elvis Costello will be appearing on Fraiser tonight. At 10:18 AM 4/22/2003 -0700, Catherine Simpson wrote: >My experience is that far from being offended, they're usually TOO >intrigued. Once a straight man knows that you're a bisexual woman, he just >wants to "get it on" with you AND your girlfriend ;) I think there are also a lot of straight men out there that quite irrationally feel threatened by the idea, like they can't compete, or are just for no good reason morally opposed to any form of same-sex relationships at all. - --Jason "they're on the same team - they're more familiar with the equipment" Thornton "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:35:05 -0700 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: back to bisexuality Wow, did I really get a death threat on the Feglist? Setting my head on fire with gasoline and all. Couldn't believe it. This is all meant very lightly and of course I have nothing invested in the subject. This started because someone suggested that Robyn might be bisexual, it was originally "on-topic" but I had something to add that I just couldn't resist saying. Monogamy is truly boring after 27 years and I wouldn't mind another relationship on the side. In fact I've had a couple of one night stands over the years, so I'm not totally strict about these things. I just wouldn't go for a woman myself, though sleepovers at her house might be easier to explain to my husband. Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:39:07 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: rip/bi cycles gshell wrote: > > i wonder > if a human has ever been seduced by an alien? It's a central theme to basically every Robert Silverberg book. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:41:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Rex.Broome wrote: > As I mentioned before it seems to me that most bi-identifying men settle > down with men, as do most bi-identifying women, and I have a number of > theories as to why, culturally, it shakes down that way, but they're > really just idle speckle-ation. Wait, does "as do most bi-identifying women" mean "also with men" or "also with same-sex partners"? Most of the bi-identifying men I know are settling down with women. I wouldn't have concluded any grand cultural thing from this before, but in conjunction with your observation (and Barbara's) I think it means that people should be much more hesitant to make broad conclusions based on their own acquaintances. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:46:09 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Showtime - NOT on 4/22/03 11:08 AM, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey at jenor@uwm.edu wrote: > That is, if the Penn & Teller show is on another network in > Canada, any Canadian going to Showtime's website for info on P&T is > actually encouraged to watch *that* channel *instead of* Showtime. > What's ironic is, this sounds like the kind of topic that P&T would expose in their show! Yeah, right... > Thing is, you can never ensure that your own promotional message doesn't, > to some degree, also promote something else that competes with you. Until > recently, advertisers (if they were aware of this) simply accepted it: an > ad for one beer is also an ad for beer in general, but what are you going > to do about that? Yeah, god forbid they can't have total and complete control over everything the viewer sees (and infers). A couple of disparate thoughts come to mind here: I remember watching an episode of The Osbournes where the family went to NYC. MTV actually blurred out the paintings on the walls of their hotel room! Wha??? Is Claude Monet gonna rise from the dead and sue Viacom for associating his fucking haystacks with a dysfunctional rock star family? Alternate explanations welcomed... Disparate thought #2: I subscribe to NHL Center Ice on DirecTV. By paying my yearly fee, I get to see any NHL game being broadcast, with the exception of my local team's home games which are blacked out on Center Ice but available on my local Fox Sports affiliate. No problem there. Well, Fox are such Nazis (treading on Godwin ice here), that if my local Fox affiliate isn't broadcasting my local team's AWAY game, they still order DirecTV to black out the Center Ice feed of the other team's broadcast. In other words, the Sharks are in Vancouver but Fox Bay Area is showing toothless rednecks driving in circles, yet I'm not allowed to see the Vancouver feed even though it's on Center Ice. Fuckwads. And it's just getting worse. - -tc, I need to calm down... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:55:30 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: Re: rip/bi cycles On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > gshell wrote: > > > > i wonder if a human has ever been seduced by an alien? > > It's a central theme to basically every Robert Silverberg book. i know it's been written about. hell, i've probably dreamed about it. i just wonder if it has ever actually happened. non-consentual alien insemination or fetus implantation excluded, of course. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:14:25 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Whoa, tiger! Aaron: >>Wait, does "as do most bi-identifying women" mean "also with men" or "also >>with same-sex partners"? Both with men. Amongst my acquaintances. >>Most of the bi-identifying men I know are settling down with women. I >>wouldn't have concluded any grand cultural thing from this before, but in >>conjunction with your observation (and Barbara's) I think it means that >>people should be much more hesitant to make broad conclusions based on >>their own acquaintances. But yo, I didn't put any kind of judgment on it. Because I don't care, except to the extent that I'd like my friends to be happy and fulfilled in their relationships with whomever (or in their single-ness, or whatever, just happy). And I'm not drawing any broad conclusions. It's just something I've noticed, yup, based on my own acquaintances. Yours are different, so there you go, but I don't know them. I work with what I got. If you're implying that generalizations based on observation are invalid, I can't quite agree with that. But I'd admit that most of the straight white guys I know are not necessarily typical straight white guys, and that if you extrapolated about straight white guys based on the ones I know, you'd come up with some pretty damned hilarious conclusions (they all watch Buffy and love Nick Cave, or something like that). So you got me there-- probably me and all my friends are freaks. - -Rex "and I like it that way" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:21:27 -0800 From: Eb Subject: RE: Back to bisexuality >Barbara: >Monogamy is truly boring after 27 years and I wouldn't mind another >relationship on the side. In fact I've had a couple of one night stands over the years, so I'm not totally strict about these things. >Catherine: >And to think, I've been doing it wrong >for 20 years... (said very tongue-in-cheek). My understanding that tongue-in-cheek is definitely the wrong way. >I have a very happy, loving marriage, but both my >husband and I are free to pursue outside relationships (no, not sleazy >one-night-stands and wild sex parties, I'm talking "intimate" friendships). >So, I have a great husband AND a terrific woman who has been one of my best >friends for 8 years, and my "girlfriend" for nearly 3 years. > >OK - I'll shut up now... Please don't. ;) My god...is this list threatening to become *interesting* again? Too bad my sexual adventures wouldn't impress a 18-year-old -- I'll have to just lurk in this one. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Showtime - NOT Tom Clark wrote: > Disparate thought #2: I subscribe to NHL Center Ice on > DirecTV. By paying my yearly fee, I get to see any NHL > game being broadcast, with the exception of my local > team's home games which are blacked out on Center Ice but > available on my local Fox Sports affiliate. No problem > there. Well, Fox are such Nazis (treading on Godwin ice > here), that if my local Fox affiliate isn't broadcasting > my local team's AWAY game, they still order DirecTV to > black out the Center Ice feed of the other team's > broadcast. In other words, the Sharks are in Vancouver > but Fox Bay Area is showing toothless rednecks driving in > circles, yet I'm not allowed to see the Vancouver feed > even though it's on Center Ice. Fuckwads. And it's just > getting worse. First of all, that's not a nice thing to call the Warriors. They were actually not disrespectable this year. And actually, it's not Fox. It's the contract that Center Ice (and the NBA and MLB equivolents have made since they have similar provision) with the league. So, as fun as it is to blame Rupert Murdoch, it's actually more Gary Bettman (and David STern and Beelzebud Seaslug)'s fault. ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:35:12 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: holes (the movie) etc. Went to see Holes over the weekend, & it was a lot of fun, particularly for Jon Voigt. The kid who plays Zero was good too, as was Sigourney Weaver, but I've always had a crush on her.* The whole thing reminded me a bit of Roald Dahl, semi-fantasy that somehow has lots of realism creeping in, and kinda dark. Only the end (SPOILER?) seemed way too neat, the evil in the world is all put in place by the forces of good, which Dahl would never do. And in a Pynchon story the suggestion of one of the prisoner/kids that "we're really all working for the lizards" (who are poisonous, & a hazard in the desert where the kids are made to dig holes) would prove to be true. *This may be a case of psychological transference, i.e. I think I'm attracted to her, but on a deeper level I'm really attracted to the Alien... - --- Bi, bi blackbird -- I vaguely remember, from Cultural Anthropology classes, discussion of how strongly humans are disturbed by anything that crosses categories, that is "neither fish, flesh nor fowl." There was an article in a book called Rules and Meanings, edited by Mary Douglas, called "Why the Cassowary Is Not a Bird." (THe cassowary is a flightless bird, & may have some other weird things about it). I seem to remember agreeing w/ Drew that it seemed strange to think of anything about complex human nature as being completely like an on/off switch. - --- >Rebel Rebel - David Bowie (incorporating (I can't get >> > no)Satisfaction - Rolling Stones) An old garage band of mine once did a medley of Satisfaction(Stones)/Rebel Rebel(Bowie)/ Wendy(Association)/I Can't Control Myself(Troggs). Nice idea, but it mostly sounded like womp-womp-womp-womp for about fifteen minutes. - --- Showtime-- >This is a strange one - i've never heard of region checking websites. What's the weird thing Opera does w/ the Microsoft website? Translates it all into "Bork -bork" type pretend Swedish, like the Sesame St. chef? Ross Taylor "Marching, Marching to Shibbolith" -- Firesign Theatre Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:37:25 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Showtime - NOT On Tuesday, April 22, 2003, at 01:51 PM, Tom Clark wrote: > Steve, please forward this to your Showtime contact: I did (along with Jeffrey's addition) and here's the reply: > Well - -it is a moot point since Showtime ISN'T available outside the > US > anyway as an entire network...it seems like it would be more > frustrating to > read about a network and the shows it produces that you can't ever see > anyway. His point about advertising other properties is kind of > off-base it > isn't a matter of worrying that we're advertising something that would > compete with Showtime like another channel or a book or play or > something -- > but that we would lessen that value of the programming for our > international > partners -- if that makes sense....they either own the rights > out-right by > being a production partner or sponsor, or pay a price to carry our > shows/programs in their regions and deserve the exclusivity to their > region > without US competing with them...since we aren't available in Canada, > for > example, we wouldn't be competing with another network there and thus > wouldn't care if the viewer was directed to a Canadian channel...But > I'm > sure it is much more complicated than even I understand, not being a > rights > attorney. Yes, It's sad that non-US folk can't get to the site. Other than that, it's no use arguing about it here. If it really gets yer panties in a bunch, you can always write to Showtime directly. (d'oh, you can only get to the contact page inside the US. Catch-22 indeed) - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:39:51 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: Re: If it's an alternative lifestyle, does that mean it was produced by Steve Albini? On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Rex.Broome wrote: > gSs: > >>oh yeah, must be a conspiracy. and anyone who can explain this > >>conspiracy gets to have sex with me, under pending conditions. ask for > >>details. > > I think we can make an educated guess as to the conditions/positions, > but must we also prove ourselves to be deities or other religious figures? i bet you can't guess the conditions or the positions. but what do the positions have to do with it? i'd be glad to watch your show. but unless you are well trained you should run as soon as you have proven your aloftedness because at this point i believe i'll force sex, in a bad-way, on the first deity i come across, as a pay-back. though, you never actually know until it happens. we could end up an item. i prefer mortals, but i once owned a '69 mach 1. it was a god of some type and i would have rogered her long and slow, in a good way. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:18:55 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Fox Sports on 4/22/03 12:27 PM, Jeff Dwarf at munki1972@yahoo.com wrote: > And actually, it's not Fox. It's the contract that Center > Ice (and the NBA and MLB equivolents have made since they > have similar provision) with the league. So, as fun as it > is to blame Rupert Murdoch, it's actually more Gary Bettman > (and David STern and Beelzebud Seaslug)'s fault. Actually it is Fox. Before they bought SportsChannel we didn't have this problem. Plus, I have spoken to folks who complained to the Sharks media rep and he noted Fox was to blame. Oh, and Fox Sports LA apparently doesn't doesn't force a black out of Kings away games. Apparently it's up to the discretion of the local outlet. - -tc, post-burrito mellow. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:29:44 -0400 From: Brian Cully Subject: Fear of a bi planet On Tuesday, Apr 22, 2003, at 14:41 America/New_York, Aaron Mandel wrote: > Most of the bi-identifying men I know are settling down with women. I > wouldn't have concluded any grand cultural thing from this before, but > in > conjunction with your observation (and Barbara's) I think it means that > people should be much more hesitant to make broad conclusions based on > their own acquaintances. The problem with generalizations is the problem with the law of averages: It doesn't apply to small data sets. The larger problem lies with those that tend to use them: people assume they have a large enough data set to talk about the whole data set, which just isn't the case for most cases. =) So I agree with you. I'd go a step further, though, and say that people should be hesitant to apply /any/ kind of generalized knowledge to individuals, or even small groups of the population about which you're talking. Generalizations are great, assuming you treat them as what they are: observations of a whole data set. They break down and start offending people when you start talking about them as laws, which they absolutely are not. - -bjc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:33:45 -0400 From: Brian Cully Subject: Re: back to bisexuality On Tuesday, Apr 22, 2003, at 14:35 America/New_York, Barbara Soutar wrote: > Wow, did I really get a death threat on the Feglist? Setting my head on > fire with gasoline and all. Couldn't believe it. I didn't mean to imply a death threat, just make a point, although I admit too much vitriol came out. > This is all meant very > lightly and of course I have nothing invested in the subject. You may take it very lightly, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't get offended. In fact, I think that a lot of the "light offensive humor" that floats about does far more to hurt people than when people argue seriously. - -bjc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:07:50 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Grooving on a bi plane Brian: >>The larger problem lies with those that tend to use (generalizations): people >>assume they have a large enough data set to talk about the whole data >>set, which just isn't the case for most cases. =) >>So I agree with you. I'd go a step further, though, and say that >>people should be hesitant to apply /any/ kind of generalized knowledge >>to individuals, or even small groups of the population about which >>you're talking. You might be taking my statement as a bit more of a "serious pronouncement" than I meant it. I was pretty much saying "this is what I observe amonst bisexual men of my acquaintance", although it was also somewhat informed by conversations I've had with people within that group who like to joke around about the same phenomenon I was mentioning... >>Generalizations are great, assuming you treat them as what they are: >>observations of a whole data set. They break down and start offending >>people when you start talking about them as laws, which they absolutely >>are not. But I didn't talk about anything as a "law". I didn't even really state what conclusions I was drawing. Quoth myself: "As I mentioned before it seems to me that most bi-identifying men settle down with men (etc.)" ...which I've since ammended to specify I'm talking about people of my own acquaintance... and then... " and I have a number of theories as to why, culturally, it shakes down that way, but they're really just idle speckle-ation." Leaving aside the stupidity of the last "word" I used there, I sure don't see any "law" being laid down, so I can't see what would even be offensive here. But yeah, these are small-ass data sample groups, and as I was just mentioning to Aaron offlist, for all I know they're shaped as much by regional culture (I do live in Los Angeles), age group, ethnicity, religion, country of origin, or whatever the hell else. - -Rex, who seems to be hanging out with rather a diverse bunch of bisexuals and can't recall offending any of them recently ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #152 ********************************