From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #148 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, April 19 2003 Volume 12 : Number 148 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Trachtenburg Family [Eb ] Too much gay talk... let's take this thread on over to Hooters! ["Rex.Bro] Re: The God, the Gay and the Dead [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Cats in the Cradle? [The Great Quail ] Geoduck ["Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" ] Re: Ermm... so now we know where one of them is... ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr.] And now back to our regularly scheduled gayness... ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Elf Power cover Robyn ["Marc Holden" ] Cats in the Cradle [David Witzany ] Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN [Barbara Soutar ] Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN [Tom Clark ] Really? ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Trachtenburg Family [Christopher Gross ] Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN [Aaron Mandel ] Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Cryptic Cricket [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] re: Buffy [Eb ] re: Buffy ["Jason R. Thornton" ] re: Buffy [Eb ] another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) [grutness@surf4nix.com (James D] another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) [grutness@surf4nix.com (James D] Re: another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:12:22 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Trachtenburg Family > >Caught the Trachtenburg Family Slideshow Players on Conan O'Brien last night >>- tres fun! Anyhow, Comedy Central will be replaying it tonight at 7. >> >>-tc, media guide > >Of course, now Sumiko, Randi, Chris, Jeffrey, myself, and maybe even >Eb would like to know if it involves Michelle Trachtenberg. Well, those of you still playing the "...even Eb" drinking game have another reason to take a swig.... > > Speaking of oppressive *dd*rs, I just got through watching >> "Will & Grace & Her Nipples." Sheesh. > >Isn't complaining about oppressive udders on "W&G" like >complaining about Celine Dion's haircut after being subjected to >one of her records? Not sure. I don't watch the show very often. Does Messing wear a no-bra, too-small T-shirt throughout *every* episode? Chris Gross is scaring me. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:31:56 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Too much gay talk... let's take this thread on over to Hooters! Eb on Cynthia Stevenson(heh): >>Don't forget her role in "The Player," including an unlikely topless scene. ;) Oddly, I was just thinking of that-- having something to do with her exit from the film with the dismissal "It takes more than a dirty mouth to make it in this town..." >>Speaking of oppressive *dd*rs, I just got through watching "Will & >>Grace & Her Nipples." Sheesh. Yeah, I caught a bit of that, too, and I was wondering just what the hell the standards and practices policy was on that kinda thing. I mean, you couldn't literally "see" her nipples, but dude, you could *see* her nipples. Somehow it seemed a little more gratuitous than when women kind of "poke out" of their leotards on old variety shows, but I couldn't figure out exactly how you'd quantify such a thing. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:31:34 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: The God, the Gay and the Dead Quoting Aaron Mandel : > On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Miles Goosens wrote: > > > Speaking of non-functioning gaydar: can anyone here tell me when Bob > > Mould came out/was outed? > > Here's what I remember, though it conflicts with your memory of it being > '89... in late 1992 or early 1993, "If I Can't Change Your Mind" was > released as the second or third single from the first Sugar album, and > its > video featured a bunch of Polaroids blowing all over the place. At the > end, Bob holds one up to the camera that shows him sitting on a bed with > another man, and he turns it around to show that the back says "This is > not your parents' world." Yeah, I remember this...although it seems there was some background beforehand, in that I remember not being surprised at the video. That might be, for me, that a friend of mine who did work for one of the local clubs had said, a couple of years before, that Mould was gay. I remember that I hadn't heard anything like that - I hadn't given it a thought either way. I do remember, though, watching one of the R.E.M. video collections before Stipe came out and thinking, "hmmm, there sure are an awful lot of shirtless men in these videos..." ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: we make everything you need, and you need everything we make ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:31:50 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: Elf Power cover Robyn Elf Power cover "Listening to the Higsons" on the their new covers album Nothing's Going to Happen. =20 Pretty good cover but they don't really do anything new with the song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:36:31 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: outing crabs >Speaking of non-functioning gaydar: can anyone here tell me when Bob Mould >came out/was outed? I remember reading an interview that mentioned that subject when I was in England, which would have been 1992-93. Bob Mould was talking about how gays were telling him to "come on, be gay with us!" to which he replied, "I'm not part of anybody's thing." I just read an article from last year about how he's been writing scripts for pro wrestling. That is fucking cool. >Dragonfish also served a sake made by a company in Oregon called >Momokawa, and it was delicious. I see that around here a lot - I didn't know it was made here. I've only had sake once and I didn't like it, but maybe I'll like Momokawa better. >I was also dazzled by Seattle's huge Asian market, Umajimaya (sp?). It's Uwajimaya, and there's one in Portland too. I make periodic pilgrimages there to buy weird snack foods and the best pre-prepared sushi I've ever had. I feel bad for all the crabs stacked on top of each other, though. gnat "how do you pronounce 'geoduck,' anyway?" the gnatster _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:39:08 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Cats in the Cradle? > Anyhoo, I downloaded a version today by Harry Chapin. Trouble is, it > sounds nothing like what I'm hearing in my head. Were there several > versions of this - did anyone else make it famous besides Mr. Chapin? Well, it's a Harry Chapin song....! I don't know anyone else who covered it, though. - --Quail, whose mother played Harry Chapin and Joan Baez non-stop through his childhood. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:40:32 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: Geoduck Natalie asked: > how do you pronounce 'geoduck,' anyway? Gooey-Duck, like I just stepped in something gooey. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:46:51 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Ermm... so now we know where one of them is... >From: "Rex.Broome" >Subject: Ermm... so now we know where one of them is... > >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/prawnzilla/ > >As lemons chop... Wow, I gotta get me some of those Zucchini Nunchuks the monster shrimp uses. Now that might be a good band name, Zucchini Nunchuks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:02:46 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: And now back to our regularly scheduled gayness... Miles: >>Speaking of non-functioning gaydar: can anyone here tell me when Bob >>Mould came out/was outed? For some interesting and way-older stuff on this, I recommend (heartily) the recent book "Our Band Could Be Your Life" about the American '80's indie scene. It talks about the early rumors that "someone in Husker Du was gay" and how most people assumed it was Greg Norton due to his mustache (!!!), when in fact both Mould and Hart almost always took their boyfriends with them on tour. Mould and Hart both deny the rumor (which I recall hearing in the early days of Mould's solo career) that they were involved with each other, and that Hart's drug use broke up the relationship as well as the band. Hart also claims that he lived for several years (covering the end of Husker Du and his early solo work) believing he was HIV positive due to a faulty test... which goes a long way towards explaining some of his destructive behavior if it's true. Mostly, as with Stipe and probably a few other guys on the indie scene, Mould being gay was just "common knowledge" among fans that slowly became more common. It's a measure of how great that scene was in many ways that it was rarely written about never a big deal. I can see the value in how some of those artists have become more "activist" over time, but it makes me sad for the loss of a little community where nobody cared to begin with and the point didn't even have to be made. Also, to bring the homoerotic wrestling thing full circle, I'm still utterly confused by the fact that Mould spent some time recently as a "creative consultant" for the World Wrestling... ummm... whatever the "E" stands for. It's true. And it's weird. - -Rex, whose ambition is now to have Jeff Tweedy or indeed anyone tell him, "Thanks for the insane work!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:00:19 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: Cats in the Cradle? jbj wonders: > Anyhoo, I downloaded a version today by Harry Chapin. Trouble is, it > sounds nothing like what I'm hearing in my head. Were there several > versions of this - did anyone else make it famous besides Mr. Chapin? I don't know about 'famous' but it's been covered a bunch of times...perhaps most notably by Johnny Cash and Judy Collins (and Ugly Kid Joe). I think at least one of the Nashville hat acts did a version as well. IIRC it was originally released on "Verities & Balderdash" in 1974, but when "Greatest Stories Live" came out a couple years later the live version container therein became the standard in our house. I have worn out several copies of "Stories" in the intervening years, and am somewhat jarred when I hear the studio version nowdays (as is the case with "Taxi" as well). Michael "30,000 pounds of Cadbury Fruit & Nut Bars*" Wells * gratuitous freebie reference to bonus material contained in "The Ninth Configuration" DVD :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:05:23 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Re: Elf Power cover Robyn They also cover "Surgery" on their first album, "Vainly Clutching at Phantom Limbs". Their version of "Listening to the Higson's (sic)" was originally on the tour-only CD "Come On". Later, Marc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Brown Friday, April 18, 2003 12:45 PM Subject: Elf Power cover Robyn > Elf Power cover "Listening to the Higsons" on the their new covers album > Nothing's Going to Happen. > Pretty good cover but they don't really do anything new with the song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:09:22 -0500 (CDT) From: David Witzany Subject: Cats in the Cradle Johnny Cash covered it; you'd probably know if that was him on your mp3, though. If it sounds quite a bit more electric than you remember, it must be Ugly Kid Joe. Dave. David Witzany witzany@uiuc.edu ....one of Nature's bounds checkers - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:25:32 -0700 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN The best news source I've found on the net so far is at the Guardian online... http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/ I haven't been able to participate in recent coversations here, being both right-handed and uninterested in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. My views on bi-sexuality: why, there is no such thing. I call it omnisexuality and have obnoxiously wondered out loud why four-legged creatures are excluded. (note: my daughter was disappointed by her first boyfriend last summer because he announced that he was simultaneously going to date her and a guyfriend.) Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:39:03 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN on 4/18/03 1:25 PM, Barbara Soutar at bsoutar@horizon.bc.ca wrote: > note: my daughter was disappointed by her first boyfriend > last summer because he announced that he was simultaneously going to > date her and a guyfriend. I think I freaked my mom out when, as a little kid, I was looking at a photo of her wedding party and I asked innocently, "Mom, can two men get married?" - -tc, married to a girl. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:07:47 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Really? >>Being Out Rocks, a compilation of music by gay and gay-supportive artists, >>including Sarah McLachlan, Rufus Wainwright, Ani DiFranco, the B-52's, >>Queen, Taylor Dayne, and Kevin Aviance ...ummm... Taylor Dayne? (The question mark having to do not with her sexuality but her recording career...) - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Trachtenburg Family On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Miles Goosens wrote: > Of course, now Sumiko, Randi, Chris, Jeffrey, myself, and maybe even > Eb would like to know if it involves Michelle Trachtenberg. You know it! Of course I'm in this situation a lot: the president of university where I work is named Trachtenberg, so my eye is frequently being caught by things like "Trachtenberg to Meet with Students at Funger Hall." On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Even Eb wrote: > Chris Gross is scaring me. Why? I think it's perfectly normal for a healthy adult man to write ten or fifteen pages about Buffy every day. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:00:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Barbara Soutar wrote: > My views on bi-sexuality: why, there is no such thing. Whatever it is you mean by this, I bet there's a nicer way to say it. > (note: my daughter was disappointed by her first boyfriend > last summer because he announced that he was simultaneously going to > date her and a guyfriend.) Which you mention why? Don't tell me you think all bisexuals, in addition to not existing, are insatiable and faithless? a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:57:49 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: oh, that left-leaning CNN At 01:25 PM 4/18/2003 -0700, Barbara Soutar wrote: >My views >on bi-sexuality: why, there is no such thing. I call it omnisexuality... Well, if you're calling it something, you're acknowledging it exists, right? Why dismiss an existing, recognized term with one you made up, and then claim that the one everyone else uses isn't valid? On a similar note, I have a very close "bisexual" friend who refers to herself as "gender ambivalent, not bisexual," but I never really understood the distinction she was making. Not that she didn't see a subtle difference, I just didn't get it. >...and have obnoxiously wondered out loud why four-legged creatures are >excluded. Are you associating a bisexual orientation with a perversion like bestiality? Or is that just a joke about positions? Speaking of CNN, I recently read an amusing term, "wanchor," used to describe the newspeople on networks like FOX and CNN. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:03:32 +0100 (BST) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Cryptic Cricket James, The reverse sweep incorporates a measure of ambidexterity... (At last! I have posted something that will make as little sense to most other people on the list as Buffy posts do to me!!) Crowbar Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:18:06 -0700 From: Eb Subject: re: Buffy Meanwhile, I read today that "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" is ending this year as well. Will "Charmed" be forced to shoulder the *entire* witchy-nymphette market, from now on? Oh dear. ;) Eb np: general desolation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:22:59 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: re: Buffy At 04:18 PM 4/18/2003 -0700, Eb wrote: >Will "Charmed" be forced to shoulder the *entire* witchy-nymphette market, >from now on? Oh dear. ;) Well, there are always Jeannie re-runs on cable. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:25:14 -0700 From: Eb Subject: re: Buffy >At 04:18 PM 4/18/2003 -0700, Eb wrote: > >>Will "Charmed" be forced to shoulder the *entire* witchy-nymphette >>market, from now on? Oh dear. ;) > >Well, there are always Jeannie re-runs on cable. Jeannie ain't no "nymphette." She's, what, 1700 years old or so?? ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 11:25:31 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) >My feeling is that Robyn would be one of those people who would agree in >principle to the statement that "everybody is a little bit bi" (on a >spectrum sort of like the one for left & right-handedness), thus the primary >question is whether he self-identifies as "bisexual", which I'm pretty sure >he doesn't. > >I do remember an interview many years ago, the source of which is too lame >to reference, when he specifically alluded to not being gay but having >written a number of what he called "gay" songs. He didn't name them, but >you can name off the obvious ones pretty quickly-- "Pretty Girl", "Ted Woody >& Jr" (which is specifically about an early, "coded" gay porn magazine) what's the quote? "I'm not gay, I just went to a very good school?" >His religious posture, as I read it, is virulently agnostic, but hardly >atheistic. It all hinges on death and its aftermath. Death is a >fascinating and common jumping off point from him, and he'll happily follow >it into the void ("Then You're Dust"), some imagined spirit world ("Where Do >You Go"), or a stylized spin on the Judeo-Christian take on the afterlife >("When I Was Dead" etc)... and then there are the sort of songs with ghosts, >or the ones where you're dead but your bones are "all fine" and everything >"sounds great"; I don't even know what that indicates unless it's a bit of >"all of the above". and he later still seems to be moving away from 'death' to 'time' as being the ultimate source of all (think "If you know time", "Mexican God" et al). Or to put it another way, the universe is built on sullen entropy. Which is very interesting from a philosophical viewpoint. I could possibly rabbit on for paragraphs on God being a human construct designed to express the ineffable, and time also could be defined in the same way. Jon's probnably right though, and it's the symbolic value of phrases related to death and religion that is more important than any personal views on the subject Robyn has. - --- >"If it weren't for capital punishment, there'd be no such thing as Easter." >- --Bill Hicks nice quote, but even if the crucifixion hadn't happened there'd be a lot of us celebrating Easter. - --- >Speaking of non-functioning gaydar: can anyone here tell me when Bob >Mould came >out/was outed? Husker Du was one of those acts I followed regularly, and >their era >was the one where I had the most leisure time and voraciously consumed every >half-decent music mag. >I mean, we weren't horrified or amazed to find this out (we hadn't >suspected it >either); the real shock was that somehow this had become common knowledge >without >either of us being common enough to know, or knowingly common, or >whatever. So I'm >still wondering when and how it became common knowledge... I only found out recently that Grant Hart is also gay (then again, my interest in Husker Du in general is more passing than fanatic). Really dumb question, but does anyone else here think that if there had been a Husker Du movie, Keanu Reeves should have played Hart? - --- >>>I can clear a room with my impersonation of Billie Holiday singing >>>"Summertime"... > >Never though this would happen, but here I am imagining Julian Cope >impersonating Billie Holiday. try to imagine it being sung in sort of very low falsetto, with the sound not so much nasal as hiding on the roof of the mouth. - --- >The Piano Man, the Material Girl, the >Red-Headed Stranger, the Coal Miner's Daughter, the Space Cowboy, the Gypsy, >the Acid Queen, the Excitable Boy, Miss World, the Grievous Angel, the >Rhinestone Cowboy, the Slider, the Laughing Gnome... well, on second >thought, that sounds like the cast of a Dylan tune I think it was actually a David Lynch movie James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 11:27:23 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) apologies if this arrives twice - I lost connection to the server while it was sending the first time, so this is a doublecheck - --- >My feeling is that Robyn would be one of those people who would agree in >principle to the statement that "everybody is a little bit bi" (on a >spectrum sort of like the one for left & right-handedness), thus the primary >question is whether he self-identifies as "bisexual", which I'm pretty sure >he doesn't. > >I do remember an interview many years ago, the source of which is too lame >to reference, when he specifically alluded to not being gay but having >written a number of what he called "gay" songs. He didn't name them, but >you can name off the obvious ones pretty quickly-- "Pretty Girl", "Ted Woody >& Jr" (which is specifically about an early, "coded" gay porn magazine) what's the quote? "I'm not gay, I just went to a very good school?" >His religious posture, as I read it, is virulently agnostic, but hardly >atheistic. It all hinges on death and its aftermath. Death is a >fascinating and common jumping off point from him, and he'll happily follow >it into the void ("Then You're Dust"), some imagined spirit world ("Where Do >You Go"), or a stylized spin on the Judeo-Christian take on the afterlife >("When I Was Dead" etc)... and then there are the sort of songs with ghosts, >or the ones where you're dead but your bones are "all fine" and everything >"sounds great"; I don't even know what that indicates unless it's a bit of >"all of the above". and he later still seems to be moving away from 'death' to 'time' as being the ultimate source of all (think "If you know time", "Mexican God" et al). Or to put it another way, the universe is built on sullen entropy. Which is very interesting from a philosophical viewpoint. I could possibly rabbit on for paragraphs on God being a human construct designed to express the ineffable, and time also could be defined in the same way. Jon's probnably right though, and it's the symbolic value of phrases related to death and religion that is more important than any personal views on the subject Robyn has. - --- >"If it weren't for capital punishment, there'd be no such thing as Easter." >- --Bill Hicks nice quote, but even if the crucifixion hadn't happened there'd be a lot of us celebrating Easter. - --- >Speaking of non-functioning gaydar: can anyone here tell me when Bob >Mould came >out/was outed? Husker Du was one of those acts I followed regularly, and >their era >was the one where I had the most leisure time and voraciously consumed every >half-decent music mag. >I mean, we weren't horrified or amazed to find this out (we hadn't >suspected it >either); the real shock was that somehow this had become common knowledge >without >either of us being common enough to know, or knowingly common, or >whatever. So I'm >still wondering when and how it became common knowledge... I only found out recently that Grant Hart is also gay (then again, my interest in Husker Du in general is more passing than fanatic). Really dumb question, but does anyone else here think that if there had been a Husker Du movie, Keanu Reeves should have played Hart? - --- >>>I can clear a room with my impersonation of Billie Holiday singing >>>"Summertime"... > >Never though this would happen, but here I am imagining Julian Cope >impersonating Billie Holiday. try to imagine it being sung in sort of very low falsetto, with the sound not so much nasal as hiding on the roof of the mouth. - --- >The Piano Man, the Material Girl, the >Red-Headed Stranger, the Coal Miner's Daughter, the Space Cowboy, the Gypsy, >the Acid Queen, the Excitable Boy, Miss World, the Grievous Angel, the >Rhinestone Cowboy, the Slider, the Laughing Gnome... well, on second >thought, that sounds like the cast of a Dylan tune I think it was actually a David Lynch movie James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:31:15 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: another desultory post (Buffy content 0%) > >The Piano Man, the Material Girl, the >>Red-Headed Stranger, the Coal Miner's Daughter, the Space Cowboy, the Gypsy, >>the Acid Queen, the Excitable Boy, Miss World, the Grievous Angel, the > >Rhinestone Cowboy, the Slider, the Laughing Gnome This was a pretty cool list, by the way, though the durability of some of these labels is debatable. (I'm not even sure who "The Gypsy" is! Stevie Nicks??) Anyone have other suggestions? Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble extending this list. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:01:25 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Damn, I wish I could make it to this one Liz Phair & the Flaming Lips. I might just have to take a day or two off from work for that. Marc http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=768&e=3&cid=769&u=/nm/20030 418/music_nm/music_phair_dc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:32:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Yesterday, When I was Gay Eb wrote: >>> Speaking of oppressive *dd*rs, I just got through watching >>> "Will & Grace & Her Nipples." Sheesh. >> >>Isn't complaining about oppressive udders on "W&G" like >>complaining about Celine Dion's haircut after being subjected >>to one of her records? > > Not sure. I don't watch the show very often. Does Messing wear > a no-bra, too-small T-shirt throughout *every* episode? The couple times I tried watching it, I found it to be repulsively non-funny, so Debra Messing's tits have never found their way into my consciousness one way of another. ==== Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I do remember, though, watching one of the R.E.M. video > collections before Stipe came out and thinking, "hmmm, there > sure are an awful lot of shirtless men in these videos..." But then there's the "Pop Song 89" video where Stipe dances around with the three topless girls. That and the probably never real but for some reason frequently assumed (which is to say, fantacized about by many fans hoping for some sort of Dylan-Baez thing) Stipe-Natalie Merchant pairing had set me up to be kinda surprised. ==== "Rex.Broome" wrote: > Mostly, as with Stipe and probably a few other guys on the > indie scene, Mould being gay was just "common knowledge" among > fans that slowly became more common. It's a measure of how > great that scene was in many ways that it was rarely written > about never a big deal. I can see the value in how some of > those artists have become more "activist" over time, but it > makes me sad for the loss of a little community where nobody > cared to begin with and the point didn't even have to be made. It's one of those Catch-22s: are you more marginalized by being overtly out or just being? Same thing with race or religion: on one hand, people should be judged as individuals but they shouldn't have to give up feeling part of a greater community either. Mould mentioned that in the article Aaron posted, about how k.d. lang can never been by a lot of people as anything but a "lesbian" singer. But on the other hand, there are probably a fair number of kids who because of lang or Melissa Etheridge or Mould or Stipe being out feel less alone and less afraid about having to confront a still fairly homophobic world as young gay adults. > Also, to bring the homoerotic wrestling thing full circle, I'm > still utterly confused by the fact that Mould spent some time > recently as a "creative consultant" for the World Wrestling... > ummm... whatever the "E" stands for. It's true. And it's weird. Entertainment. > -Rex, whose ambition is now to have Jeff Tweedy or indeed > anyone tell him, "Thanks for the insane work!" Thanks for the insane work! Or did you mean, unprovoked? But hey, I "am" a Jeff. We're sorta like Locusts, you know. ===== "Being accused of hating America by people like Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham is like being accused of hating children by Michael Jackson or (Cardinal) Bernard Law." -- anonymous . The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #148 ********************************