From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #102 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, March 18 2003 Volume 12 : Number 102 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Spin, spin, spin, you self-serving ass.... [steve ] Ben! Crispin! Ben! [steve ] Re: Ben! Crispin! Ben! [Tom Clark ] update ["The Mammal Brain" ] Beerz ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" ] Re: More Beer! ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" ] Re: Spin, spin, spin, you self-serving ass.... ["Matt Sewell" ] Re: dream in a mist of grey (sic) [Michael R Godwin ] Re: life isn't all beer and chocolate, you kno [The Great Quail ] Re: humourlessnessnesssss [Christopher Gross ] Re: life isn't all beer and chocolate, you know [mary ] Cheap beer has no sense of humour ["Mike Wells" ] beer & waitresses etc. ["ross taylor" ] Re: Smart [Jeffrey Norman ] Re: beer & waitresses etc. [Christopher Gross ] RE: beer & chocolate redux... ["Timothy Reed" ] Re: Smart (uncut) [Perry Amberson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:31:22 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Spin, spin, spin, you self-serving ass.... On Monday, March 17, 2003, at 04:46 PM, Eb wrote: > From a press release, regarding Moore's important (?) work shooting a > System of a Down video: > > "The strangest thing about this impending war is that the people -- > the REAL majority who make up the population of this country and the > world -- do not truly want to go to war," said Michael Moore, > self-appointed savior of the Common Man. "Watching the news, you > would never know that millions have been out there proposing a > different solution -- one that does not involve the slaughter of > innocents." > > What news is HE watching??? I see anti-war demonstrations, every time > I turn it on. > > Eb (OK, OK...I added that "self-appointed...Common Man part ;P) Funny thing, Stupid White Men is back on top of the nonfiction charts, followed by Savage Nation. The culture war continues, and the right wingers pursue their agenda while people are busy watching the pre-war coverage on TV. - - Steve __________ While still at the Department of Justice, Rehnquist provided the best definition of a strict constructionist I have ever encountered. It was in a memo Rehnquist wrote while he was vetting Judge Clement Haynsworth, one of Nixon's selections who was rejected by the Senate. Rehnquist wrote, in brief, that a strict constructionist was anyone who likes prosecutors and dislikes criminal defendants and who favors civil rights defendants over civil rights plaintiffs. That is as candid and blunt as you can get. And that is the real definition of a strict constructionist. - John Dean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:45:03 -0800 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: more beer! >hell, you don't call what the US and UK have *beer* do you? Belgium, >Germany, various parts of eastern Europe, Australia, South Africa, and New >Zealand make beer. Pfft. I've tried Steinlager and it's nothing to write home about. (Now you'll be claiming we get a lesser variety in the States.) On the other hand, I don't really like pilsner or whatever you call the paler variety of beer. I'm actually starting to like dark beer these days, though I never thought I would, because it all tastes like coffee. Soon I'll be drinking coffee too. Perish the thought! >this is something that always startles me about kiwi comments on UK beer. >"They serve it warm! Bleagh!" It's not *warm*, it's just not icy cold (at least in my experience). It isn't like they heat it or something. Goddamn. I want some beer right now. gnat "the beer of choice in these parts is Pabst, a.k.a. beer-flavored soda" the gnatster _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:54:27 -0600 From: steve Subject: Ben! Crispin! Ben! > If you only play one music video this year on the Internet...make it > Crispin Hellion Glover's version of "Ben" http://www.willardmovie.com/index_flash.html - - Steve __________ HALTON, England  President Bush said Thursday he is having a hard time selling a missile defense plan to skeptical allies in Europe because he has only "vague notions" about what it would entail. - Ron Fournier, AP, 07/19/01 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:24:33 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Ben! Crispin! Ben! On 3/17/03 7:54 PM, "steve" wrote: >> If you only play one music video this year on the Internet...make it >> Crispin Hellion Glover's version of "Ben" > > http://www.willardmovie.com/index_flash.html > LSD is a wonderful thing. - -tc, who owns an autographed copy of Mr. Glover's "Rat Catching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:11:22 -0800 From: "The Mammal Brain" Subject: update some halloween pix now available at . not very many, but they're very good. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:04:09 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Beerz If you haven't tasted Maritime Pacific's Nightwatch porter, you're missing out. Brewed in Seattle, only available in Washington and Oregon, and one of the things I miss most about the rainy pacific northwest. The best beer I've ever tasted. Their Jolly Roger stout is almost as good. Rule of thumb if you visit the pacific northwest: if you go into a bar and they have any of Maritime Pacific's beers on their tap, it's the best beer in the place. Probably the best beer for miles around. And Sierra Nevada Pale Ale - as someone said, this Americans first acquaintance with hops. The first American beer I ever had that tastes better at room temperature than cold. You can leave a bottle of it uncapped overnight, and it's still just as drinkable in the morning. Amazing. Here in SF we're lucky enough to have Toronado, a beer connoisseur's dream bar. The first time I was in there, it was just me and one other customer in the place, and the other guy orders some sort of fruity berryweisen thing. The bartender brings it to him, and he takes a sip, and says to the bartender, "Did you bring me the right beer?" And the bartender says, "000h, yeah, it's the right beer. It's just that last week they switched from a top-fermenting method to a bottom-fermenting method." And the guy grunts, nods and goes back to his beer. No joke. Wow. Once a year they have the Toronado Barleywine Festival. They get in like one keg each of 40 different barleywines, when each keg is gone it's gone. You get this menu of the different barleywines, you order by number, and you can get like a 3 oz, 6 oz, or 11 oz for, uh, $2, $3, and $4 (I think?) respectively. So it's just like horseracing, you go in, put your money on the bar, and say, "I'd like $3 on Number 27 to show." On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony The Great Quail on ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 10:06 AM -0500 in a mist of gray: >>> Now, saying US beer is better than English beer, now *that's* funny! > >Just to clarify, I do *not* mean the commercial US import beer like >Budweiser and Coors and all that swill. That stuff is awful indeed, and a >disgrace to export. I mean things like Samuel Adams, Anchor Steam, >Yuengling >Porter, Sierra Nevada, Victory Hop Devil, and countless other smaller >brews. > >I have been to London three times, and each time I was surprised by the >quality of the beer, which I found weak and watery. Maybe it's better >outside of the city...? (Or maybe after they kick everyone out on the >street >at 11pm they break out the good stuff for the locales?) > >--Quail - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:39:46 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: More Beer! Mmm, those trappists were on to something. You've reminded me, also, I forgot to mention my favorite contribution from North Of The Border: Le Fin Du Monde ("The End Of The World"), a trappist-style ale brewed in Montreal - - delicious, AND packs a whallop at 9%. At US$4.50 a bottle in my area bars, Le Fin Du Monde provides the best all-around bang for the buck of any beer I know. Three cheers for Duvel, too, BTW. MK (w/a PH) On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony Tom Clark on ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 3:14 PM -0800 in a mist of gray: >This thread flew by a little too fast for me, but I just wanted to add a >little about the great Belgian beers. I toured the country back in '96 >and had the opportunity to sample some great stuff. Rodenbach, gueuze, >Blanche de Brugge, all the Trappist ales. Pure heaven. I even went so >far as to smuggle back an entire case from Abbey Westvleteren, complete >with wooden carrying case. The stuff is only officially sold at the >Abbey, but you can find it in limited quantities outside the country. > >U.S. beers? Sierra Nevada can do no wrong, same with Anchor. Red Hook >ESB is still good, as is the original Sam Adams. I caution you though - >stay away from Sam Adams Light - AAAAAAGH!!! I much preferred their old >light entry, Lightship. It only lasted a few years, but it was the only >light beer I could ever stomach. The Ommegang brewery on Cooperstown, NY >makes some nice Belgian style ales. They're readily available here in >Sillycone Valley, so I assume their distribution is pretty widespread. > >-tc, who had a fabulous Chimay Triple last week... - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:55:38 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: breaking news / More beer On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony Maximilian Lang on ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 7:29 PM -0500 in a mist of gray: >>From: "Roberta Cowan" >>Subject: breaking news >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:20:45 -0500 >> >>According to thesoftboys.com: "As of March 2003, Robyn has left the Soft >>Boys, the pressure of being in the band and managing it having gotten to >>be >>too much, and the bulk of the reunion project being complete, anyway. So >>there >>won't be any further gigs... " > >Gee, I am glad I got my Fillmore poster signed. Aside from that selfish >statement, I am very sorry to hear this. Knowing Robyn, I think the future >is worth looking forward to. Yes, ditto. Got all four sigs on my "Underwater Moonlight". Truth to tell I would trade the thrill of it being that much more of a rarity for them signing thousands of copies of UM together in the coming years, however no matter what happens I do not expect to be disappointed. On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony Natalie Jane on ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 7:45 PM -0800 in a mist of gray: >I'm actually starting to like dark beer these days, though I never >thought I would, because it all tastes like coffee. Soon I'll be drinking >coffee too. Perish the thought! Let me tell you, Red Hook Double Black Espresso Stout is my idea of a satisfying meal plus desert. MK (w/a PH) - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:03:43 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Ben! Crispin! Ben! Now, if there's three things I always say most music videos don't have enough of, it's rats, cleavage, and Crispin Glover. On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony steve on ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 9:54 PM -0600 in a mist of gray: >> If you only play one music video this year on the Internet...make it >> Crispin Hellion Glover's version of "Ben" > >http://www.willardmovie.com/index_flash.html > > - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:03:09 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: breaking news / More beer > >Gee, I am glad I got my Fillmore poster signed. Aside from that selfish >>statement, I am very sorry to hear this. Knowing Robyn, I think the future >>is worth looking forward to. > >Yes, ditto. Got all four sigs on my "Underwater Moonlight". I had my Side Three CD5 upstairs in the private area of the House of Blues...talking to M. Seligman at length outside the dressing-room door...but never got it signed by the gang. Phooey. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:59:04 +0000 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: Re: Spin, spin, spin, you self-serving ass.... I recently tried to read Stupid White Men by MM... now, I agree with much of what he says but bloody hell his excruciating style was absolutely insufferable - I haven't been able to finish it... Cheers Matt >From: Eb >Reply-To: Eb >To: fgz >Subject: Spin, spin, spin, you self-serving ass.... >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:46:57 -0800 > >From a press release, regarding Moore's important (?) work shooting >a System of a Down video: > >"The strangest thing about this impending war is that the people -- >the REAL majority who make up the population of this country and the >world -- do not truly want to go to war," said Michael Moore, >self-appointed savior of the Common Man. "Watching the news, you >would never know that millions have been out there proposing a >different solution -- one that does not involve the slaughter of >innocents." > >What news is HE watching??? I see anti-war demonstrations, every >time I turn it on. > >Eb (OK, OK...I added that "self-appointed...Common Man part ;P) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's fast, it's easy and it's free! Click here to download MSN Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:01:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: beer! On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Eb wrote: > My favorite kind of beer is..."free." Ligger! - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:31:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: dream in a mist of grey (sic) On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat wrote: > On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony The Great Quail on > ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 10:06 AM -0500 in a mist of gray: A bare winding carcase, stark shimmers as flies scoop up meat, an empty way... dry tears... crisp flax squeaks tall reeds make a circle of grey in a summer way, around man stood on ground RKB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:00:21 +0000 (GMT) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: humourlessnessnesssss Jeffrey's right, this has gone on too long, and we're obviously boring other list members. See you on a sunnier topic. Crowbar Joe Suffering after ten pints of Fuller's London Pride. Robyn lives just around the corner from the Fuller's brewery in Chiswick, which is situated right on the Hogarth roundabout (immortalised in Adoration Of The City). Young's is another good family brewery here in south-west London. Their Winter Warmer certainly packs a punch. Chris Gross sed > Dishonest? Well, I didn't deliberately cheat I'm sure you didn't. I used overly emotive terms because you riled me. Sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:10:05 +0000 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: The only thing we have to fear is beerlessness I didn't realise Fuller's was on the Hogarth, though I did know they were Chiswick-based. And I'd forgotten about Youngs... mmm... tasty beer, including, as I remember, a very decent lager, called London Lager... So is London Pride even nicer in London? Cheers Matt >From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com > >Jeffrey's right, this has gone on too long, and we're obviously boring other list members. See you on a sunnier topic. > >Crowbar Joe > >Suffering after ten pints of Fuller's London Pride. Robyn lives just around the corner from the Fuller's brewery in Chiswick, which is situated right on the Hogarth roundabout (immortalised in Adoration Of The City). Young's is another good family brewery here in south-west London. Their Winter Warmer certainly packs a punch. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Express yourself with cool emoticons. Get MSN Messenger today. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:39:42 -0600 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Something important--beer >From: "Maximilian Lang" > >>Dixie Blackened Voodoo > >mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Blackened Voodoo. I was at the Dixie brewery (on Tulane Avenue in New Orleans, for those who care) on a press pass when they debuted Blackened Voodoo. They let us all just wander around the brewery and drink all the Blackened Voodoo we could, out of the taps that just hung on the walls. I imagined huge, huge vats of fresh, never bottled beer behind the walls. Did I mention it was free? I drank many, many, many, many glasses of Blackened Voodoo. And they had trays of fresh fried alligator, too. Now *that's* good beer food. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:42:55 -0600 From: steve Subject: Smart Seems to me that the difference between Miss Smart's captor and her dad is that the former thinks he's already a god. http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2003/03/18/smart/index.html - - Steve __________ If the president fell flat on his face in the middle of the Rose Garden some of these characters would applaud his uncanny foresight in having arranged for the ground to be in just the right place to break his descent. Shades of the personality cult. - Josh Marshall, on the right wing echo chamber ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:47:30 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: life isn't all beer and chocolate, you kno > Quail, surely you aren't serious about better candy in the US? I meant hard candy, not chocolate, actually. Some of the hard candy in the UK...? Oh my. > And here in Dunedin we're spoilt, having Cadbury's biggest southern > hemisphere factory in the centre of the city. Yeah, when I taught in Enola, PA, punk rock capital of the West, I was only a stone's throw from Hershey. White not as good as Cadbury, of course (though the Symphony milk chocolate bar is amazing) the smell alone while driving through could send you insane.... - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:52:57 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: dream in a mist of grey (sic) Mr. Godwin writes, > On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat wrote: >> On a distant shore, miles from land, stands an ebony The Great Quail on >> ebony sand, a dream at 3/17/03 10:06 AM -0500 in a mist of gray: > > A bare winding carcase, > stark shimmers as flies scoop up meat, > an empty way... > dry tears... > crisp flax squeaks > tall reeds make a circle of grey in a summer way, > around man stood on ground > > RKB Um....does this have something to do with the Brandenburg Gate? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: humourlessnessnesssss On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com wrote: > Chris Gross sed > Dishonest? Well, I didn't deliberately cheat > > I'm sure you didn't. I used overly emotive terms because you riled me. > Sorry. That's okay. Many people have done the same or worse lately, me not least among them. I had a Foggy Bottom ale while watching Bush's speech last night. Come to think of it, in college my roommate and I used to drink the rather bad beer Busch, mainly because you could get a six-pack of 16 oz cans for $3.00. To this day I still like the beer Busch better than the president Bush. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:32:32 -0500 From: mary Subject: Re: life isn't all beer and chocolate, you know At 09:47 AM 3/18/2003 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: >Yeah, when I taught in Enola, PA, punk rock capital of the West, I was only >a stone's throw from Hershey. White not as good as Cadbury, of course >(though the Symphony milk chocolate bar is amazing) the smell alone while >driving through could send you insane.... Speaking of Pennsylvania chocolate, a good friend of mine has a very successful family-run chocolate business and I think their candies are excellent - and I am quite a chocoholic. http://www.shermedwardscandies.com/ I've never really liked Swiss or Belgian chocolate - something about the aftertaste. It's hard to describe because it has been years since I've had any. Perhaps I should give it another try. Also, here in NYC there are a lot of gourmet chocolate shops - in fact, master pastry chef Jacques Torres has opened a chocolate shop down by the waterfront in Brooklyn. http://www.mrchocolate.com/index.html Dark chocolate rules! s.Mary ps - I hope everyone had a very good St. Patrick's Day. After all the talk of drink, I did go over to the Brazen Head and was treated to free Irish Stew, free Young's oatmeal stout, two free t-shirts, and good company. A good evening all around! Now, if only the t-shirts were girlie tees... np - the live GbV cd that Ken W. made for me. Thanks Ken! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:31:36 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Cheap beer has no sense of humour > I had a Foggy Bottom ale while watching Bush's speech last night. Come to > think of it, in college my roommate and I used to drink the rather bad > beer Busch, mainly because you could get a six-pack of 16 oz cans for > $3.00. To this day I still like the beer Busch better than the president > Bush. Yikes, Busch. Never could stomach it. We used to get cases of longneck Schaefer for $4.99 + deposit, but if dimes were really thin at school then it'd be Old Milwaukee or (heaven forbid) Blatz at $3.99 / case. That was about the worst beer I ever had, though I do think it'd be pretty funny to have a President Blatz. Anybody else remember Schmidt in the wildlife cans? Collector's heaven. Oh, and Hamm's 'From the Land of Sky Blue Waters...'. what a God-awful brew. And Rhinelander...and Mickey's big-mouths...and Little Kings...and those Strohs 'Liberty Pack' 30-can cases, perfect for beer bongs... Michael "strike that, Pabst Blue Ribbon was the worst" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:46:57 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Cheap beer has no sense of humour On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Mike Wells wrote: > Anybody else remember Schmidt in the wildlife cans? Collector's heaven. Oh, > and Hamm's 'From the Land of Sky Blue Waters...'. what a God-awful brew. And > Rhinelander...and Mickey's big-mouths...and Little Kings...and those Strohs > 'Liberty Pack' 30-can cases, perfect for beer bongs... I think the worst-tasting beer I ever actually drank was Schlitz. But the most amusingly awful beer I ever encountered has to be ... Nude Beer! It's just what it sounds like -- cans of beer with scratch-off pictures of nude women on the side. (Somehow the fact that they were *scratch-off* pictures makes it more amusing.) I saw it at a very classy drive-through beer distributor when I was in college. We didn't actually buy any, but somehow I doubt it was good. A quick Google search seems to indicate that they still make it. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:31:15 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: beer & waitresses etc. James-- >the (only) good thing to come out of the Quail vs Crowbar dialogues was a >discussion on the merits of beer and chocolate. It is good to hear mention of Chris Butler. I'm a big Waitresses fan (a big fan of The Waitresses, not "big waitresses"...) and I'm glad to hear he's got a new one out. I've got the two (?) original Waitresses lps & then got the cd comp because of his great liner notes. - --- In Heaven There is no Beer -- Any DC folk or ex-folk who remember the Brickskeller on Florida Ave.? Had a pretty good selection of imports, including a French beer, 33 Record, the only light beer I've ever liked. But if you're on a budget & thirsty, I'll stand by Rolling Rock! - --- I think this is a good summary of the diplomacy debacle and some of its potential impact-- http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_12/b3825801.htm - --- Roberta-- >Robyn has left the Soft Boys Somehow, following the news about Matthew, this sounds like "who was first to quit the Beatles?" I just hope Robyn gets back to electic music soon, and wouldn't mind if he did more with Kimberley. Ross Taylor "We pointed out the way to go And scratched your name in sand, Though you just thought it was nothing more Than a place for you to stand. Now, I want you to know that while we watched, You discover there was no one true. Most ev'rybody really thought It was a childish thing to do. Tears of rage, tears of grief, Must I always be the thief? Come to me now, you know We're so low And life is brief." Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:32:58 -0600 From: Jeffrey Norman Subject: Re: Smart Quoting steve : > Seems to me that the difference between Miss Smart's captor and her dad > is that the former thinks he's already a god. > > http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2003/03/18/smart/index.html Sorry - Salon's stupid "watch this ad" feature isn't workign for me, so I can't get through to the article. Anyone want to post its full text and cheat American Express out of its viewership? .Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:48:55 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: beer & waitresses etc. On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, ross taylor wrote: > Any DC folk or ex-folk who remember the Brickskeller on Florida Ave.? > Had a pretty good selection of imports, including a French beer, 33 > Record, the only light beer I've ever liked. Ack! What do you mean "remember"? They didn't close, did they? Their website is still up (www.thebrickskeller.com), but it doesn't say when it was last updated. You've got me worried now.... > But if you're on a budget & thirsty, I'll stand by Rolling Rock! Yes, it's my favorite cheap beer, too. - --Chris (trying to remember when he last visited the Brickskeller) ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:12:12 -0500 From: "Timothy Reed" Subject: RE: beer & chocolate redux... Brickskeller's still open - at least it was about a month ago. It's got, what, a 10 page tiny-type beer menu? My favorite bar anywhere is still Galaxy Hut in Arlington, just down the Wilson Blvd from Iota. They've always got a great selection and there's usually a fun bunch of strangers (and a couple of weird bands) to get drunk with. On the chocolate front, the best I've had is an organic (!) chocolate called (seriously) Booja Booja. It's made in Britain but I found in a grocery store in Amsterdam last year. Maybe my condition had something to do with it tasting so good, but I actually bought some off eBay a few months ago and the taste held up - proof that I didn't have to be totally whacked on hash to like it. Tim > Any DC folk or ex-folk who remember the Brickskeller on > Florida Ave.? Had a pretty good > selection of imports, including a French beer, 33 Record, the > only light beer I've ever liked. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:27:00 -0800 (PST) From: Perry Amberson Subject: Re: Smart (uncut) From Salon: The Church of Latter-day constraints A former Mormon says that the sheltered environment of Elizabeth Smart's religion might explain why she didn't run from her captors. By Ian R. Williams March 18, 2003 We've heard plenty of the details by now: While in captivity, Elizabeth Smart wore a veil, frequented grocery stores, and attended a town picnic while half of America was looking for her. She loaded up on croutons and ranch dressing at the Souper Salad, directly underneath a wanted poster featuring her picture. She lived a block from the Salt Lake City police station, heard searchers shouting her name, even went back for her shoes when Brian David Mitchell allegedly kidnapped her. The Smart parents are beginning to take a little heat for this, and thus have started telling reporters that their daughter must have been brainwashed. The usual cavalcade of child psychologists has been trotted out to discuss the Stockholm Syndrome. As for my family, former Mormons now living thousands of miles from Utah, my brother summed it up best: "They hypnotized a Mormon girl? How hard could that have been?" Growing up Mormon and then drifting from the faith -- known as being a "jack-mormon" in local parlance -- echoes the experience of lapsed Catholics. I'm certainly not one of the more virulent jack-mormons running around on the Net, but I think we all have a very complicated relationship with our former religion. A lot less "cult-y" than mainstream Americans generally think, Mormons traditionally have tremendous international interests (aided by ex-missionaries fluent in other languages), a pro-technology bent in business and medicine, and unless you happen to be a homosexual, tend to be socially inclusive. They have an unrivaled connection to their community, a genuinely sympathetic worldview that includes a tolerance of many other faiths, a stellar record of generosity and a damned good choir. If you get past the genealogy thing (which is a great resource for nonbelievers) and the polygamy (outlawed early last century), you could do a lot worse than be a Mormon. I trust them implicitly. If you want a used car, go to Provo, Utah; most of them are genetically incapable of lying. But the Mormon environment, Utah in particular, is nothing short of a fantasy world. Many of my cousins, who are now in their mid-30s, know few people who have ever smoked a cigarette. Premarital sex, drug use, even caffeine are almost unheard of in this state that claims 71 percent of its population as Latter-day Saints (in some areas, that number goes up to 99 percent). Utah has the dubious blessing of being the one place in America where theological homogeneity is rampant. It's a religion without any competition. The only place Elizabeth Smart would have been exposed to differing viewpoints is at an R-rated movie, but even adult Mormons can't see those. Most important, it is a religion of the Man. Mormonism is an exasperatingly patriarchal faith that keeps women from holding the priesthood, and in fact, even denies them special rights in their afterlife. At home, the dad is king, his word reigning supreme over all others. This dual worship of both God and Dad infantilize Mormon children, especially girls, who are subject to calcified ideas about gender. Time and time again I have seen my vibrant, funny, 10-year-old female relatives gradually lose their personalities, especially once they get into their teens and the husband hunt becomes serious business. It is a religion that has no interest in reviving Ophelia; my grandmother had a cross-stitched quote from a recent Mormon president in her hallway that read, "A modest, gracious woman is God's masterpiece." Elizabeth's alleged captors, especially Brian David Mitchell (whom she called "Emmanuel"), played easily into a distended father fantasy, even for someone her age. Mitchell's story about being a latter-day Messiah was tailor-made for consumption. Mormonism itself stems from Joseph Smith, a young farm boy who claimed to decipher gold tablets in western New York that said Jesus had visited his brethren in America as well. The Old Testament is filled with stories equally incredible, but the fact that the Book of Mormon was found here, outside Rochester, N.Y., allows Mormons to believe in both the mundane and the magical. In fact, it is the Mormons' combination of the transcendent and the here-and-now that makes them so fascinating. While still thriving in the material world, they constantly live (in their vernacular) "close to the veil" -- the thin, gossamer shroud that separates the real world from a host of otherworldly splendors. It is this ability to imagine the unimaginable that makes them fabulous raconteurs, and excellent missionaries. It is one of the world's fastest-growing religions. And if you ever talked to my Uncle Chris, a subtle and brilliant proselytizer, you'd know why. I'm not going to pretend I know what happened between Elizabeth Smart and her captors. Philosophizing from afar is a loser's game, and no doubt more will be revealed in the coming investigation. I won't even pretend that I can generalize about a religion with 10 million members and counting -- my own extended family bucks the trend substantially, with a gaggle of incredibly strong women, many divorced, who willed their children through the 20th century on determination alone. But the unrealistic environment of Utah -- and the unwavering faith of a high school sophomore -- might have left Elizabeth Smart woefully underprepared for her ordeal. The same ideological pundits now thanking God for Elizabeth's return (as Pat Robertson did on Fox News) are the ones who crucified John Walker Lindh's parents for being morally relativist California flakes. Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe bemoaned Lindh's ultrapermissive environment, saying "his road to treason and jihad didn't begin in Afghanistan. It began in Marin County, with parents who never said, 'no'." But this week's incredible abduction-and-return story forces us to ask: Did an extremely nonpermissive family like the Smarts -- the kind that never said yes -- do Elizabeth any favors? Don't let the photos fool you; even though she looks much younger, this is a 15-year-old girl. Most Americans at 15 are already wizened and street-smart. Half are already sexually active, and a quarter have smoked pot. People looking for the answer to the big question -- Why on earth did she stay? -- may well keep in mind that Utah, for better and for worse, is not the rest of America. ____________________________________ Yahoo! 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