From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #97 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, March 15 2003 Volume 12 : Number 097 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: it's anywhere [Ken Weingold ] Re: Snail & Soft Boys [Eb ] Re: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" [Caroline Smith ] Re: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" ["Jason R. Thornton" ] RE: paranoia strikes deep in the heartland [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Burn your Eno CDs [steve ] Re: Burn your Eno CDs ["Maximilian Lang" ] Fwd: If Mr. Lucas only knew... ["Maximilian Lang" ] Correction [Barbara Soutar ] Re: Snail & Soft Boys [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: intelligence in space, lack of it on earth [Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: it's anywhere On Fri, Mar 14, 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > but that's not as cool as It's real, too. They have or had it for sale at a bodega in Brooklyn by where my friends' band had rehearsal space. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:18:03 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Snail & Soft Boys >From the moment >the singer (Misty Woods) came out, looking like a young Chrissie Hynde, >wearing only black panties and yellow & black warning tape, I knew this was >going to be memorable. They seem to have an enthusiastic following Uhh...no wonder. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:26:54 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Re: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 03:53 PM, The Great Quail wrote: >> > > Well, I respectfully disagree. I think history, culture and > environment have > a lot to do with things. Schools of thought affecting other schools of > thought and so on. Not to mention opportunities, economics, and the > ebb and > flow of politics. While of course "great minds" will seek out > expression no > matter where and when they are born, much of that expression will be > influenced by culture, access to opportunity, and resources. With all > due > respect for Canada, the last hundred years haven't exactly been called > "The > Canadian Century," and there's no centers of international art and > culture > to rival New York City, for instance, or even San Francisco. According > to > your logic expressed above, my list of great Americans would have been > a > list of great Canadians if only they were all born a few hundred miles > to > the north? That's like saying the great Germans of the Enlightenment > would > have all done the same thing had they all been born in Sicily. > > Why must people deny that America has a thriving, multivalent culture? Oh, this is such a rich topic for discussion. I must say that I don't pride myself in my rationality or logic. However, that doesn't mean I can't share my opinions. Soo.. Who could dispute that history, culture and environment influence ... er ... everything? The point of my last e-mail was to point out that a truly "great" mind will blossom regardless of situation or circumstance. I was not denying the talent that has come out of the States. In fact, it was more of a celebration of creative potential. If more people had encouragement rather than criticism, who knows what kind of world this would be. As an aside, parts of America happen to have great wealth and large populations, as a result they have larger cultural centers. Why else would so many talented Canadians (comedians, writers, singers, doctors, chemical engineers) move south. For the fame, for the fortune, who knows... Everywhere at some time a unique and interesting mind/person/artist will develop. The question is... will any one appreciate it? c. (... and of course the definition of "great" is subjective.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:29:33 -0800 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: RE: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" > With all due respect for Canada, the last hundred years haven't exactly > been called "The Canadian Century," Hey man that's not what Wilfrid Laurier said!!! Jason Brown. BA Canadian Studies '99, University of Washington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:34:38 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Fries On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 01:08 PM, FS Thomas wrote: > The one thing to be thankful for, though, if we do go it alone: > it's a Hell of a lot easier to run a successful military campaign > unilaterally than it is to run a multi-national force. It didn't seem that hard the first time around. __________ Not necessarily for ferris - A. I wonder if GWB is reconsidering his "soul analysis" of Mr. Putin? B. Who would you rather go to lunch with, Bush or Putin? - - Steve __________ The Bush administration repealed a rule this week that would have allowed government agencies to refuse federal contracts to companies that do not comply with labor, environmental and consumer-protection laws. - Neil Irwin, Washington Post, 12/28/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:35:52 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" At 03:06 PM 3/14/2003 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: > >I was thinking the other day that many Americans seem to like to drive > >big 4-wheel-drive vehicles and carry guns, and some of them seem a little > >intolerant towards other peoples' beliefs... stick beards on them > >and you've got the Taliban! > >That's exactly right! Minus, of course, the unchecked political power, the >propensity to rape at will, the penal system involving no due process and >frequent recourse to mutilation, the unopposed domination of women, and the >harboring of a group of mass murdering psychopaths! Ah... someone hasn't met the LAPD. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:41:42 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: RIP?: The Dixie Chicks' Popularity in the Heartland On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 07:22 AM, Jonathan Fetter wrote: > FWIW: > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? > tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030314/lo_kmbc/1531264 > > We 'mericans sure do love that free speech thingie. > At a concert in London earlier this week, Natalie Maines, the band's > lead singer said, " Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of > the United States is from Texas." I think Natalie is wasting her time hanging around with those no-talents, even if they did dump that other girl in her favor. And gSs is just being a snob about Bush. - - Steve __________ The United States is exploring the development of a 'space-bomber' which could destroy targets on the other side of the world within 30 minutes. - Ed Vulliamy, The Observer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:24:59 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Minus one Soft Boy; Plus one Big Star??? Marc on his talk with Mr. Seligman: >>He felt his time with the Soft Boys was at an end. >>They didn't hang out socially, the songs were generally not "group efforts", >>and Robyn would probably do quite well regardless of the band he played >>with. They had one more gig in France and a live album recorded in San >>Francisco (Fillmore, 2001?), and that would probably be it. Oh. That's sad. Can't blame him, of course, and at least we got what we did out of the reunion. And once again we have no idea what's gonna be the next thing for Robyn, eh? Best of luck to you, Matthew; probably safe to say that Marc's review is going to move some more Snail records! Although if Chris Bell really is in your band, I'm totally pissed that he's been skipping out on all of those Big Star reunions by pretending to be dead... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:26:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Name one female jazz drummer Anybody? I can't think of one female jazz drummer (no, Sheila E. doesn't count). . Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:42:40 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Re: Minus one Soft Boy; Plus one Big Star??? > Best of luck to you, Matthew; probably safe to say that Marc's review is > going to move some more Snail records! Seconded! And at least we got a second go-around where you could actually *hear* Matthew playing. Speaking of which, did anyone else notice Robyn / Kim volume wars elsewhere on the last tour? At the 10/28/02 Chicago show, Robyn asked or signaled to have his vox increased after every alternate song for about the first half hour (though granted his voice was pretty rough)...but it seemed like Kim would signal to have his guitar raised the very *next* song, every time. As soon as one did, the other responded in this little escalating war. I didn't really mind, though, as Kim was dead on all night, and you could actually hear Matthew's bass quite well :) And considering I never, ever expected to see the Softs play...it was great! Michael "really, great!" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:56:45 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Fries - -- steve is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 14. Mdrz 2003 15:34 Uhr -0600 regarding Re: Fries: > B. Who would you rather go to lunch with, Bush or Putin? Without any doubt: Putin. At least he's intelligent. We'd have to speak German, but that wouldn't be a problem. His German is pretty good. I'm no fan of his by any means, but I guess we'd find topics we could talk about. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:59:30 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: RE: paranoia strikes deep in the heartland - -- Tom Clark is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 14. Mdrz 2003 11:27 Uhr -0800 regarding RE: paranoia strikes deep in the heartland: > And, did noboday receive my post yesterday wrt James' query? I answered > "Paul Simon - Have a Good Time". I win, Dammit!! I did. And I was full of admiration for you. I knew the quote and I just recently bought "Hearts and Bones", but I couldn't come up with it. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:08:45 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: GBs, intelligence in space, lack of it on earth >> Well, yes, that is atypical, although it depends on what you mean by >> "middle period"-- I read that (now) as the end of their original run >> (Tallulah/Lovers Lane) but if you mean circa Liberty Belle (middle of >> their original run) that's kind of a fan favorite, isn't it? > >I agree. to tidy things up here, my favuorite GBs albums are Tallulah and Liberty Bell etc. I do like Spring Hill Fair and 16 Lovers Lane in parts, but rarely listen to it and am underwhelmed by it overall in comparison to the others. I suppose the point I was making was that it's less likely for a GoBetweens fan to prefer the Jack Frost projects to most of the original band's material. - --- >Lastly, while it turns out that most places are pretty inhospitable to >life, that's not to say life doesn't thrive there (the extremophiles >found all over the planet's most inhospitable places). This is what truly rankles about many comments on the unlikelihood of life in the rest of the universe. "Most places are pretty inhospitale to life". As even the writers of Star Trek were wont to say: "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it." Most places are inhospitable to life *as it exists on Earth*. And it's equally likely that Earth would be inhospitable to many hypothetical forms of life that might exist that originate in other environments. There is an automatic assumption on the part of many that if something is inhospitable to terrestrial life, then nothing can possibly live there. As Arthur C Clarke once said (very approximately): Which is a more unbelievable thought - that the universe is full of worlds in habited by sentient beings, or that in the entire universe this is the only one? - --- >Commiserations to James on the cricket results they get worse all the time. Now we need to rely on Zimbabwe winning for us to have a chance to be thumped by the Aussies again. Sigh. - --- As to the f* fries problem, the answer is simple. They're chips, as any fule kno. Not to be confused with crisps, of course. Ironically, the renamings are equating the old word (French) with the new word (Freedom). If France= freedom, what does that mean about various foreign policies? - --- >I was born in Alaska and lived there until age 12 and most Alaskan's >want nothing to do with the Lower 48, as they call mainland USA, let >alone the Heartland. Alaska is the only state in the union that has a >serious 3rd party that wants a referendum to succeed from the >union.http://www.akip.org/ oh yes, I know about the AKIP (I even have a link to them on my website!). But you're wrong on one point - there is also a fairly serious third party in Hawaii of a similar nature. >i believe texas is the only state that can actually do that. ISTR that Texas is the only state that can split itself into separate states, but I don't know of any special rights as regards secession. Then again, I would just about guarantee that almost every country has some form of legislation barring a region seceding from itself. Doesn't stop it from happening occasionally, though. - --- >Mad props to Michaels Kupietz and Wells for the Thoths. > >Rock on, yo. Rex! You're bilingual! - --- >I have managed to find the whole 801 Live album on Kazaa, Phil Manzarek >and Brian Eno, and now I am happy to see that others are uploading it >from my machine. This was once a fave of mine... I believe it's rare >now. Anyway, give it a listen if you can. um.. that's Phil Manzanera. James PS - yup, Tom (and Greg and co), it was Paul Simon's "Have a good time" James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:09:30 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: The entire f*g universe - oh, and frames >I heard recently-- in fact I'm surprised nobody brought it up here-- that it >had more or less been determined that the universe was set to expand >eternally, instead of eventually contracting. That kind of implies to me >that not only is the known universe awfully big, but there's no reason not >to expect there to be any number of other giant wads of matter emanating >from any number of other big bangs out there... does that track? Ups the >odds for life elsewhere. Does nothing for the odds of finding it. latest theory is that it can't, since it's finite. In fact (I kid you not) it may be doughnut shaped. >They do exist but I've only seen them for 12 inchers. But the frames >they sell specifically designed for records I've seen are horribly over >priced. You are much better off going to a U-frame it type place and do >it yourself. The only really expensive thing at those places is the >glass. And some of those places will have cheaper polyurethane sheets >you can cut instead. If they don't you can just get a big sheet and cut >it yourself at home. if you're doing it that way, be very careful where you hang the covers! Cheap polyurethane sheets (and even standard glass) will allow so much UV through that you'll get faded covers if you hang them anywhere where direct sunlight can get at them. Sadly, UV protection glass is expensive stuff, but if your covers are truly valuable to you then it's a precaution worth considering. James (amazing the sort of info you pick up when you become a painter) James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:39:11 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Johnny Marr & The Healers - -- ross taylor is rumored to have mumbled on Mittwoch, 12. Mdrz 2003 17:44 Uhr -0500 regarding the healers: > Sebastian-- >> So, nobody has anything to say about Johnny Marr's current band? > > I like it, but then I liked "Twisted Tenderness" by > Electronic I never got into any of Marr's post-Smiths projects until now. > (I'm also going to like it because the band I > was in in the 80s, which played -- badly -- lots of Smiths > covers, was called Boomslang). What is (a ?) boomslang? > The vocals sound like guide vocals, so I miss some of the > comparatively strong songwriting & vocals (?!) in > Electronic. Well, I was suprised how well Johnny Marr sings. I haven't yet heard any studio recordings, but the live performance tonight was really good. His voice may not be as "interesting" as, say, Morrissey's, but it's definitely OK. > Wonderful layered guitars, Yes! I wonder who the second guitar player on the tour is; he seemed familar. I only caught his first name, James. > Sort of slightly aggressive ear candy you could dance to. And I did! > "Down on the Corner" has some accoustic guitar, He played his 12-string Rickenbacker for that, but it was made to sound almost like an acoustic. > "You Are the > Magic" sounds a bit like T. Rex circa "The Wizard," at least > one number has a sort of blues-rock groove. Yeah, I was surprised at his versatility. He did two songs with bottleneck on a Les Paul. I'd never seen him before, so I didn't know what to expect. He seemed very cool but friendly. I enjoyed the show a lot. I'll try to get the CD tomorrow. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:40:39 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: intelligence in space, lack of it on earth On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 05:08 PM, James Dignan wrote: > ISTR that Texas is the only state that can split itself into separate > states, but I don't know of any special rights as regards secession. Imagine the US Senate with two members each from North Texas, South Texas, Central Texas, West Texas, and East Texas. Or whatever names you think should apply. (Mail.app thinks Dignan should be Dognap). - - Steve __________ If anyone has ever benefited from what Bush has called "the bigotry of soft expectations," it's George W. Bush himself. - Mark Crispin Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:19:45 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Johnny Marr & The Healers Sebastian queried: > > What is (a ?) boomslang? S. African tree snake [hence the name], exceedingly venomous. Fangs at the back of its throat. Several respected herpetologists have died from boomslang bites; it's a very subtle neurotoxin. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:48:35 -0600 From: steve Subject: Burn your Eno CDs http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2003/0120/cover/view_eno.html - - Steve __________ There were brief interludes during the news conference - especially the long languid pauses -when some viewers might have flashed back to the presidency of Richard Nixon. That is, the Nixon Years at their most tumultuous and Twilight Zoney, when the old Trickster would come on TV and you'd sit there not just fascinated but a trifle terrified of what he might say, who he'd accuse of persecuting him, and whether he might come completely unglued or just melt into a hideous puddle right before your horrified eyes. - Tom Shales, on Bush. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:00:18 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Burn your Eno CDs >From: steve >Subject: Burn your Eno CDs >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:48:35 -0600 > >http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2003/0120/cover/view_eno.html Can't we all just get along and burn some Jerry Lewis flicks? Max _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:03:24 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Fwd: If Mr. Lucas only knew... Thought some might find this an interesting bit of trivia. Max >From: Chip Madinger> >To: Beatlegs@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Beatlegs] If Mr. Lucas only knew... >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:36:03 -0600 > >It's long been rumored, and for what it's worth, it's now been positively >confirmed. The Double Fantasy production team did indeed sample sound >effects from the first Star Wars film for use on Yoko's song 'Beautiful >Boys'. They have been well disguised, but can be heard towards the end of >the song during the third verse. The effects come from the exchange of >laserfire with the Stormtroopers after Luke & Co. have escaped from the >trash compactor, specifically as Luke and Leia almost fall into the power >generator thingy ("..I think we made a wrong turn.."). For those with the >1995 US Laserdisc release, this can be found on Side 2, Chapter 27 around >41'30. > >Chip Madinger >www.8-arms.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:53:21 -0800 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Correction Hi, When I was recommending 801 Live I should have said Brian Eno and Phil Manzanera. Wrong name was given. Oh, and Quail... you are being terribly defensive. The greatness of America's past is not in question. Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Snail & Soft Boys Marc Holden wrote: > Next came Snail. Matthew was wearing a business suit with > "INMOTO 6" stenciled on the back. They sounded great and seemed > to be having a very good time. Jon Klein, the singer, also > happened to be an excellent guitarist, Is this the same Jon Klein who was in the Siouxsie & The Banshees from 87 until the end (pre-relapse)? > something that hadn't > been so obvious on the CDs. Chris Bell was on drums. Presumably the same Chris Bell who was in the Thompson Twins with Matthew before Tom, Alannah, and Joe fired everyone and became the farm system for future members of The Cure.... Too bad about Matthew leaving, though it's not like The Soft Boys were going to be the full-time outlet for Robyn anyways. I always thought he was a better bass player for Robyn's work than Andy was (ducking), but it's probably better to quit now than to wait and get bitter about the whole situation and having it turn nasty. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: intelligence in space, lack of it on earth steve wrote: > James Dignan wrote: > > ISTR that Texas is the only state that can split itself into > > separate states, but I don't know of any special rights as > > regards secession. > > Imagine the US Senate with two members each from North Texas, > South Texas, Central Texas, West Texas, and East Texas. Or > whatever names you think should apply. That would definitely kick the California secessionist movement into high gear. The only questions that remain: take Nevada, Oregon, and Washington with us (voluntarily, of course); and should we be a new independant nation or just join Canada (if they'll have us -- we DO already have 3 hockey teams!) ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:12:38 -0800 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: Re: Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio? TGQ: > Exactly! Well, and minus Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin > Franklin, John and Samuel Adams, James Madison, Thomas Paine, Susan B. > Anthony, Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo > Emerson, Herman Melville, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Soujourner Truth, Harriet > Tubman, Henry Ward Beecher, Frederick Douglas, Jack London, Abraham Lincoln, > Walt Whitman, Emily Dickenson, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Henry Miller, Arthur > Miller, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Charlie Bird Parker, > Dizzy Gillespie, Louis Armstrong, Cecil Taylor, Bobby Fisher, Ernest > Hemingway, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Norman Rockwell, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, > Teddy Roosevelt, John Cage, Morton Feldman, Harry Partch, George Rochberg, > Roger Sessions, Philip Glass, Terry Riley, Steve Reich, John Adams, Samuel > Barber, Ray Bradbury, Orson Wells, William Faulkner, Joseph Heller, Georgia > O'Keefe, James Rosenquist, Toni Morrison, Robert F. Kennedy, John F. > Kennedy, George Crumb, Mark Rothko, Jackson Pollack, Robert Rauschenberg, > Andy Warhol, Leonard Bernstein, Steven Sondheim, Frank Lloyd Wright, Martin > Luther King Jr., Thurgood Marshall, Bill Viola, Lou Reed, Laurie Anderson, > Stan Lee, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, the Ramones, the Beach Boys, Jimi > Hendrix, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Nat King Cole, Martin Scorsese, Spike > Lee, Francis Ford Coppola, David Lynch, Jim Jarmusch, Robert Altman, Leonard > Slatkin, Yo Yo Ma, Eliot Carter, Rene Fleming, Virgil Thomson, Gertrude > Stein, Joseph Heller, Henry James, Donald Barthelme, J.D. Salinger, Don > DeLillo, Philip Roth, Thomas Pynchon, John Barth, William Gaddis, Robert > Coover, Paul Auster, Carl Sagan, Neil Armstrong, Douglas Macarthur, Patton, > James Watson, Robert Oppenheimer, Ansel Adams, Robert Lowell, Elizabeth > Bishop, James Tate, William S. Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, Neal > Cassidy, Philip K. Dick, Robert Heinlein, Frank Herbert, H.P. Lovecraft, > I.F. Stone, Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky, Abbie Hoffman, Walter Cronkite, > Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, Robert Wilson, the Kronos Quartet, the > Emerson Quartet, George Herriman, Walt Disney, Matt Groening, Charles > Schultz, Bill Watterson, Janis Joplin, Joan Baez, Madonna, Randy Newman, > Gary Larson, the Grateful Dead, John Zorn, Adrian Belew, Frank Zappa, Bob > Dylan and Johnny fucking Cash. And of course, all they stand for, added to, > and reacted against in this vast tapestry of American life. Not one basbeall player on that list. I think we've found ourselves a commie. - -rUss nr: 'Narcissus', in which one of the characters unscrews the top off a bottle of Anchor Steam. As someone who lived in San Francisco for a while Hitchcock should know better. (mmmmmm...Anchor Steam.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: "if this is freedom, you must be joking" The Great Quail wrote: > Matt Sewell writes, > >I was thinking the other day that many Americans seem to like > >to drive big 4-wheel-drive vehicles and carry guns, and some > >of them seem a little intolerant towards other peoples' > >beliefs... stick beards on them and you've got the Taliban! > > That's exactly right! Minus, of course, the unchecked political > power, the propensity to rape at will, the penal system > involving no due process and frequent recourse to mutilation, > the unopposed domination of women, and the harboring of a group > of mass murdering psychopaths! Other than that, yeah, > "many Americans" are just like the Taliban! Well, Texans.... > When it comes to discussing the Unites States, when exactly did > an awareness of the complex nature of reality desert this list? Around the same week as the hyperbole detector. Face it, the American mainstream media -- and sadly, much of the public (though not as much of the public as the volume of the noise would seem to indicate, of course) -- at the moment in is at it's most banally self-adoring, so it's only natural that there would be a overreaction by many in the other direction. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #97 *******************************