From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #85 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, March 5 2003 Volume 12 : Number 085 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: XTC covers [Eb ] Apple Driver Search (0% RH) [Mike Swedene ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #84 ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #84 [Michael R Godwin ] it's a free country pt. xviii [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Good News? ["Velvet And In Onions" ] Re: Apple Driver Search (0% RH) [Tom Clark ] Re: Good News? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Once and future fegs ["Rex.Broome" ] RE: Once and future fegs [Catherine Simpson ] RE: Once and future fegs ["Rex.Broome" ] From the Where Are They Now? File: ["FS Thomas" ] Re: From the Where Are They Now? File: [Miles Goosens ] Re: 24 [Tom Clark ] luxoriousness etc. ["ross taylor" ] Only slightly less facetious answer to the XTC question ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: 24 ["FS Thomas" ] Re: 24 ["FS Thomas" ] Re: From the Where Are They Now? File: Neil Patrick Harris ["Sumiko Keay"] Re: 24 ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Not that I'm surprised, but.... [Ken Weingold ] Re: 24 [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: 24 ["FS Thomas" ] Re: Not that I'm surprised, but.... [Eb ] Re: 24 ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: 24 ["FS Thomas" ] Re: 24 ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: 24 ["FS Thomas" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:15:18 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: XTC covers >1. Earn Enough For Us - Freedy Johnston >2. Senses Working Overtime - Spacehog >3. All YouPretty Girls - Crash Test Dummies >4. Wake Up - The Verve Pipe >5. Making Plans For Nigel - The Remembrandts >6. Dear God - Sarah McLachlan >7. The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul - Ruben Blades >8. Another Satellite - L. Hux >9. 25 O'Clock - They Might Be Giants >10. The Good Things - Terry & The Lovemen >11. Statue Of Liberty - Joe Jackson I used to have that album...I think I taped "Dear God" and "25 O'Clock," and was content to toss the rest back. Eb reap: Mason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:35:02 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Apple Driver Search (0% RH) I am looking for a generic driver to run the ever popular BUSLINK USB 2.0 RW446USB unit. Any and all help as always is appreciated. Herbie np -> "Sally" Police ===== - --------------------------------------------- Agnes Skinner: Seymour! Are you looking at naked ladies? Principal Skinner: No, mother! Agnes:"You sissy! http://www.hootisland.com/text/news/021703.shtml _____________________________________________ Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:49:01 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #84 "Mike Wells" >>It _doesn't_ sound like a demo for big production recordings. I think it's >>a collection of more personal songs which have been selected specifically >>to work as an acoustic album. > >Excellent! I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this. I really should have the QEH trip but I'm more cautious than MRG when travel plans involve racing for the last train. Does it have a green cover though? Nuppy: >And I'm still waiting for a studio "Where do you go when you Die?" Seconded. Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Why oh why can't Bush's first name begin with H? like er, Hieronymous Bush Brian current earworm Our Lips Are Sealed, caused indirectly by seeing Siobhan Fahey on NMTB on monday. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:46:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #84 On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Brian Hoare wrote: > I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this. I really should have > the QEH trip but I'm more cautious than MRG when travel plans involve racing > for the last train. Not a problem as long as you allow plenty of time for (a) finding the staircase down from the QEH to ground level; (b) finding the entrance to Waterloo that you originally came out of is closed; (c) getting moderately lost on the Eurostar platform and (d) finding _another_ entrance closed, asking at the ticket office and tracking down the one remaining way into the Bakerloo. But all the horror stories that you read in the provinces about the tube having fallen apart are totally untrue. There were stacks of trains on Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening, at which times public transport in my neck of the woods has more or less collapsed. I got back to Paddington with a full 20 minutes to spare before the last train. > Does it have a green cover though? No, there's a photo of Robyn in a white shirt scraping an egg(?) into a bowl, with a red lamp from a guard's van hanging on a trellis at top left. Back cover shows him in a greatcoat facing away from the camera looking at a canal beside a tree-lined lane; tomato cone emblem to the right. Insert and inside: loads of photos of Robyn, in several of which he seems to have broken his glasses. - - MRG n.p. 'The idea of you' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:57:24 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: it's a free country pt. xviii http://tinyurl.com/6w9x - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. :: I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! :: --"raus" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:43:11 -0500 From: "Velvet And In Onions" Subject: Good News? robynhitchock.com seems to be under going some updating. Probably putting Luxor up for sale I'd imagine. ;) - -Nuppy _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:11:37 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Apple Driver Search (0% RH) on 3/4/03 10:35 PM, Mike Swedene at pulp_101@yahoo.com wrote: > I am looking for a generic driver to run the ever > popular BUSLINK USB 2.0 RW446USB unit. Any and all > help as always is appreciated. > Should just work since it's a standard USB Mass Storage class device and that generic driver is built into the system. If your Mac just has USB 1.1, then the drive will be throttled down to use the lower speed. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:13:51 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Good News? Velvet And In Onions wrote: > > robynhitchcock.com seems to be under going some updating. > Probably putting Luxor up for sale I'd imagine. ;) ah, how well I know -- and have a deeply-help ambivalence for -- the Apache mod_ssl startup screen. Grr, just when I'm running a bit of a balance on PayPal, does robynhitchcock.com go all secure-ordering on me ... ;-) Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:41:31 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Once and future fegs James: >>getting one song automatically mentally segueing into another for no reason, >>so that you have both of them stuck in the brain. Like getting the guitar/bass >>break from "Insanely jealous" half way through Eno's "Baby's on fire", >>f'rinstance. Oh, and the other thing about this phenomenon... you can pass it on easily. And now I fear I'm stuck with this medley, too. But one could do worse... _________ XTC covers: LA pop-rockers There Goes Bill used to do a live version of "Vanishing Girl", occasionally in two keys at the same time. (Never mind, just trying to see if Blatzman is paying attention.) _____ Looping back to KROQ and paging Catherine Simpson: I'm pretty sure I heard your husband on the radio this morning, talking to Kevin and Bean about being a goth. Always one of those weird moments when halfway through the segment, you go, "Hey! I know who this is!". But then again, that just happened to me on this list. _________ In a pique of boredom last night I was browsing through the Feglist Archives from, oh, seven years ago, and damn, do y'all realize we all keep saying the same shit over and over again? Within half an hour I found me blathering about the Notorious Byrd Brothers, Kay listing good Robyn tunes for kids, Eb talking about appreciating Brian Wilson through playing his music on a polyphonic instrument, and numerous .sig lines and modes of discourse still in use. On the other hand, way more tabs and polls. And Jeffrey already had 2 F's even back then, but James never got around to asking about it until this week. However did you contain yourself? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:50:35 -0800 From: Catherine Simpson Subject: RE: Once and future fegs Yep - that was my better half (or, at least, my OTHER half!)discussing "Goth" with Kevin and Bean. Wish I'd heard it... Catherine - -----Original Message----- From: Rex.Broome [mailto:Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:42 AM Looping back to KROQ and paging Catherine Simpson: I'm pretty sure I heard your husband on the radio this morning, talking to Kevin and Bean about being a goth. Always one of those weird moments when halfway through the segment, you go, "Hey! I know who this is!". But then again, that just happened to me on this list. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:19:42 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: RE: Once and future fegs Catherine: >>Yep - that was my better half (or, at least, my OTHER half!)discussing >>"Goth" with Kevin and Bean. Wish I'd heard it... He was the most eloquent Goth of the bunch. They told one chick to leave her Goth husband, but you and the kid got a pass. O' course after that show I switched over to KCRW only to hear my neighbors' band. Tidal waves that change their forms indeed... - -Rex "Bedroom Walls rehearses using a PA that I leant them" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:24:26 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: From the Where Are They Now? File: Doogie Hauser: http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/04/wkd.neil.patrick.harris.ap/inde x.html F S Thomas ferris@ochremedia.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:40:39 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: From the Where Are They Now? File: At 01:24 PM 3/5/2003 -0500, FS Thomas wrote: >Doogie Hauser: > >http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/04/wkd.neil.patrick.harris.ap/inde >x.html I'm surprised people would ask "where is Neil Patrick Harris now?" because I've seen him all the time, from STARSHIP TROOPERS to STARK RAVING MAD (where are you now, Dorie Barton?) to guest shots on ED and WILL & GRACE. But then again, I was probably only one of seven people to watch STARK RAVING MAD. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:45:30 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: XTC covers On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 11:05 PM, Sabina Carlson wrote: > my dad was curious if any XTC covers exist, since we have none > in our collection-thingy. my question is do any really good XTC covers > exist? I suggest getting the Sugarplastic's BANG, THE EARTH IS ROUND (1996), which features a bunch of super-catchy songs that strongly resemble early-to-BLACK SEA XTC. They're even better than XTC covers -- they're delightful new songs that will remind you of all the things you liked about XTC. I don't see BANG, THE EARTH IS ROUND in dollar bins as frequently as I used to, but that could be because I would always buy those copies and place them in good homes, so now no one's recirculating it. :-) later, Miles, who wasn't as impressed with the Sugarplastic's 1st or 3rd albums, but is looking forward to the 7 x 7 x 7 single series... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:52:01 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: 24 on 3/4/03 10:15 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > reap: Mason He sure went out in a blaze of glory! That was a pretty powerful episode last night. The only drawback was - again - Kim's stupid decisions. "Oh, my Dad's gonna die. Please let me off in the middle of nowhere at 11:00PM so I can think..." And by the way, what are the odds of finding someone on their way to Santa Clara (~200 miles away) on that dark back road? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:15:27 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: luxoriousness etc. MRG-- >I was expecting not to like this record >(a) because I usually like the thumpy ones with lots of riffs plus Morris >Windsor and (b) because I am pretty bad-tempered nowadays. Anyway, I was >pleasantly surprised. This is a great recommendation to me, since I share thumpy/riffs/Morris plus a bad-temper. and the Guardian said-- >There is nothing more tedious than watching other people do drugs. But that reminds me -- how's the album for weird, cryptic distubing disjunction? Is it all "I Feel Beautiful" & "She Doesn't Exist"? MRG again-- >BUT doesn't 'Idonea' nick the tune of 'Underwater Moonlight'? You mean the "first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is" part? - --- (stuck inside your cranium with the) same old tunes again-- This is worst for me when I'm physically working hard, running w/out a walkman (never!) or shovelling snow, etc. When I'm breathing hard my impulse to sub-vocalize seizes on some small obnoxious piece of melody & repeats it to the point of madness. This may come in part from having been in the Boy Scouts where they actually made us sing "Drill Ye Tarriers, Drill" "Baby Please Don't Go" & other chants & field hollers while we dug ditches & cleared fire lanes & other civic chores. I also do this when I have a high fever. The chorus of "Na Na, Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye" can be agony after an hour or so. Also whenever I think of "Jingle Bells," it always goes into the instrumental break from Deep Purple's "Hush." [cf. Freud's "The Psychopathology of Everyday Life"] - --- Mike Wells-- >he's saying these lead (not only to absolute things like Death, but also) to >things that fail you on a daily basis, like doubt ("an eraser in my head/you >know I love you/you know that's what I said"). Building on that, I get from >the last verse that the 'war' is less literal and vastly more personal. It's >certainly nice to have fresh stuff to ruminate over, though! Hey, you agree w/ me, I'll agree w/ you! I do think the war in the song is not *just* the one that can't take place in the summer because it's too hot. Ross Taylor America, let's wave the flag! Firesign Theatre was just as good as Python! There, I've said it... Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:24:56 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Only slightly less facetious answer to the XTC question Sabina: >>i am trying to think of a band that would do a kickass XTC >>cover...hmmmmm.... Well, just about any Sugarplastic album or song would qualify as an XTC cover. Surely they've actually done one, although apparently not on an album. Apparently one of their songs is about Colin Moulding*. However, bringing it all back home, I see that their last album was produced by Andy Metcalfe. >>and it's only a poisonous plant in a state of ecstacy Actually, that's a ripe tomato you got there. Now all you need is a little apple for your eye. - -Rex *source: the bass player in one of my bands asked the band after a gig if the "Colin" referred to in one song was Moulding, and they were apparently surprised that he got the reference. Which would be akin to the guys in Interpol saying, "My god, how did you make the connection between us and Peter Hook?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:20:06 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: 24 Tom: > > reap: Mason > >He sure went out in a blaze of glory! > >That was a pretty powerful episode last night. The only drawback was - >again - Kim's stupid decisions. "Oh, my Dad's gonna die. Please let me off >in the middle of nowhere at 11:00PM so I can think..." And by the way, what >are the odds of finding someone on their way to Santa Clara (~200 miles >away) on that dark back road? And yet, I felt like the writers threw a bone to the exasperated anti-Kim crowd, by having Kim refuse a ride from one shaggy ne'er-do-well. Since this incident added nothing to the forward momentum of the story, it seemed like purely a way to nudge the viewers and say "See? Kim's not THAT stupid...." :) BTW, I love that the bomb *did* actually explode. Who would have predicted that? That development violates TV-script protocol just as badly as Jack's wife being killed! And here I was, dreading another one of those inevitable James Bond scenes where the bomb is defused as the counter hits 00:00:02.... Speaking of war and peace, see below. Eb http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030304_651.html Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt s NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall. According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany. "I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs. When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read. Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly. "I told them the analogy was not good and I was then hauled off to night court where I was arraigned after pleading not guilty and released on my own recognizance," Downs told Reuters in a telephone interview. Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct. Calls to the Guilderland police and district attorney, Anthony Cardona and to officials at the mall were not returned for comment. Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17. He could face up to a year in prison if convicted. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:31:33 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: 24 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eb" > > BTW, I love that the bomb *did* actually explode. Who would have > predicted that? That development violates TV-script protocol just as > badly as Jack's wife being killed! - ----- Original Message ----- Yes! I too was pleased they couldn't disarm it. I don't know how far old Jack was when it went off (c. 4 mins? If the plane was travelling at 120mph that's, what, 6 miles?), but I sure as hell would have wanted to be further. I was watching that last night thinking, "wouldn't it be better to dump it in the ocean?" and then they went on to present both scenarios. The ocean became...unappealing after that. > Speaking of war and peace, see below. > > s NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late > Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall > in the state of New York after refusing to take off a > T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at > the mall... Whether it's a mall, a bar, or your back yard, the fact is, it IS private property. The property owners (or their agents) can ask you to leave at any time. When they do, you have to or risk arrest. Sucks to be him. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:32:53 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: 24 Not to be too picayune, but what altitude did they say he was flying at? 10,000 feet? When do you need to pressurize a plane? - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:40:54 -0600 From: "Sumiko Keay" Subject: Re: From the Where Are They Now? File: Neil Patrick Harris He did an excellent guest spot on Boomtown earlier this season. Sumi >>> Miles Goosens 03/05/03 12:40PM >>> At 01:24 PM 3/5/2003 -0500, FS Thomas wrote: >Doogie Hauser: > >http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/04/wkd.neil.patrick.harris.ap/inde >x.html I'm surprised people would ask "where is Neil Patrick Harris now?" because I've seen him all the time, from STARSHIP TROOPERS to STARK RAVING MAD (where are you now, Dorie Barton?) to guest shots on ED and WILL & GRACE. But then again, I was probably only one of seven people to watch STARK RAVING MAD. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:00:11 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: 24 At 02:31 PM 3/5/2003 -0500, FS Thomas wrote: >Whether it's a mall, a bar, or your back yard, the fact is, it IS private >property. The property owners (or their agents) can ask you to leave at any >time. When they do, you have to or risk arrest. As a business open to the public, the property owners in question have a responsibility to inform patrons of dress codes and restrictions before entrance, and cannot restrict access when such restrictions violate civil liberties. For example, mall owners cannot tell someone to leave just because they're black or gay. Any sort of dress codes should be well-displayed ahead of time. And, the shirts in question were actually purchased at the mall. If the person was behaving responsibly, the property owners do not have the right to have him removed from the premises for expressing a political opinion on an article of clothing. A mall or a bar is not your back yard. - --Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:04:15 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Not that I'm surprised, but.... I went to college in Albany and absolutely hate the place. But this is disgusting. Now I remember why I screamed in my car at the top of my lungs for joy when I finally left the city after graduation. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:16:28 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: 24 Quoting Tom Clark : > on 3/4/03 10:15 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > > > reap: Mason > > He sure went out in a blaze of glory! Not that we didn't see *that* scenario coming from several miles away. _24_ doesn't really do humor - but I wish they did, if only so that Mason could've ridden the bomb a la Slim Pickens... > > That was a pretty powerful episode last night. The only drawback was - > again - Kim's stupid decisions. "Oh, my Dad's gonna die. Please let me > off > in the middle of nowhere at 11:00PM so I can think..." And by the way, > what > are the odds of finding someone on their way to Santa Clara (~200 miles > away) on that dark back road? But Kim is the Zen Master of Stupid Decisions: making an intelligent one (okay, she does *very* occasionally) would be out of character. (And they did give her the series' funniest line, speaking of humor: Survivalist Dude: "But I just want some company." Kim: "Then what are you doing out here?") ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:17:50 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: 24 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason R. Thornton" > As a business open to the public, the property owners in question have a > responsibility to inform patrons of dress codes and restrictions before > entrance, and cannot restrict access when such restrictions violate civil > liberties. That, thankfully, is a load of bunk. Every bar I've worked at (four?) has had, prominently displayed, a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Same principle in the malls, I would think. > ..A mall or a bar is not your back yard. You, sir, haven't seen my back yard. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:22:01 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Not that I'm surprised, but.... > > >I went to college in Albany and absolutely hate the place. But this >is disgusting. Do try to keep up, Ken.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:56:49 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: 24 At 03:17 PM 3/5/2003 -0500, FS Thomas wrote: > > As a business open to the public, the property owners in question have a > > responsibility to inform patrons of dress codes and restrictions before > > entrance, and cannot restrict access when such restrictions violate civil > > liberties. > >That, thankfully, is a load of bunk. Every bar I've worked at (four?) has >had, prominently displayed, a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse >service to anyone." Same principle in the malls, I would think. Saying "bunk" does not make it so. Displaying a sign does not actually give a business the "right" to refuse service to just "anyone," for any reason. Do you seriously believe that the four bars you worked had the legal right to refuse service to someone that walked in, just because he or she was black? - --Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:07:38 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: 24 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason R. Thornton" > Saying "bunk" does not make it so. Displaying a sign does not actually > give a business the "right" to refuse service to just "anyone," for any > reason. Do you seriously believe that the four bars you worked had the > legal right to refuse service to someone that walked in, just because he or > she was black? Never said that skin color was an issue. Refusal to wear a shirt, shoes, etc. or insistence on wearing one that customers find offensive, however, is. Ever been to a place that has a 'banned' list? People who can't come in? It's proven itself dead-easy to get on those lists at the places I've worked at. Bartenders and security (myself included in both groups on more than one occasion) have refused service to people just because they personally thought them an asshole. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:01:24 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: 24 At 04:07 PM 3/5/2003 -0500, FS Thomas wrote: > > Saying "bunk" does not make it so. Displaying a sign does not actually > > give a business the "right" to refuse service to just "anyone," for any > > reason. Do you seriously believe that the four bars you worked had the > > legal right to refuse service to someone that walked in, just because he >or > > she was black? > >Never said that skin color was an issue. You did say that my assertion that businesses "cannot restrict access when such restrictions violate civil liberties" was "bunk." That includes refusal of service because of skin color. I even brought that issue up when I first mentioned it. So, are you now agreeing that my statement is NOT completely bunk? >Refusal to wear a shirt, shoes, >etc. or insistence on wearing one that customers find offensive, however, >is. If dress codes are in place, and adequately displayed to customers, the rules must be applied equitably. If you "pick on" certain segments of the population, you're violating their civil rights. Are individuals wearing "pro-war" shirts asked to leave the premises as well? Does the mall in question have a "no political slogans on shirts" rule visible to patrons before they enter? The man arrested was at the food court, and could have been midway through a meal which he paid for, before being asked to leave. Political speech is protected. It's not considered "offensive" under the law. >Ever been to a place that has a 'banned' list? Ever hear of a place getting sued for refusing service to someone? - --Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:12:36 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: 24 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason R. Thornton" > > You did say that my assertion that businesses "cannot restrict access when > such restrictions violate civil liberties" was "bunk." That includes > refusal of service because of skin color. I even brought that issue up > when I first mentioned it. So, are you now agreeing that my statement is > NOT completely bunk? Fair enough, I would concede that. > If dress codes are in place, and adequately displayed to customers, the > rules must be applied equitably. If you "pick on" certain segments of the > population, you're violating their civil rights. Are individuals wearing > "pro-war" shirts asked to leave the premises as well? Does the mall in > question have a "no political slogans on shirts" rule visible to patrons > before they enter? The man arrested was at the food court, and could have > been midway through a meal which he paid for, before being asked to leave. > > Political speech is protected. It's not considered "offensive" under the law. A shirt that says "Fuck Bush's Stance on Iraq" isn't offensive? It seems a promient personal opinion and is an example of political free speech. One thing that caused a lot of trouble was when, probably five years ago, the place I was working at banned the 'colors' of two biker gangs in the area. Could you say that was suppression of free speech? Maybe. Did it stick? Yes. With full backing by the local PD. > >Ever been to a place that has a 'banned' list? > > Ever hear of a place getting sued for refusing service to someone? In regards to the bar business (where I draw my experiences from), no. Not at least at the ones I have worked in. We never refused service to anyone based on skin color to my knowledge. I wouldn't have worked there if they had. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #85 *******************************