From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #61 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume 12 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Rhythm Room [Steve Talkowski ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #60 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum [The Great Quail ] bad album covers where I hang out ["ross taylor" ] anti-war movement [Eb ] Re: anti-war movement [Tom Clark ] Re: anti-war movement ["Jason R. Thornton" ] No wonder the world is so fucked up... [Tom Clark ] Re: anti-war movement ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" ] Re: No wonder the world is so fucked up... [Ken Weingold ] Turn On the Thick Smoke [Eb ] RE: anti-war movement ["Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)" ] Re: anti-war movement ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Rhythm Room On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:08 AM, Marc Holden wrote: > We just got back from the Rhythm Room. It was a great show. *sigh* - -Steve (former 21 year, "Valley of the Sun", dweller) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:58:09 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #60 >>XTC usually title their albums after a lyric in their previous album. > >How far back does that go? "Oranges & Lemons" comes from "Skylarking" but >what about before that? good question... I can't find the lyric "Skylarking" on "The big express", but it sounds like it should be there somewhere. "O&L" comes from "Ballet for a rainy day" off Skylarking. "Nonsuch", or at least "Nonesuch" comes from "Chalkhills and children" on "O&L", and "Apple Venus" comes from "Then she appeared". By rights, the next album should have contained a line from "The green man", since the previous three title choices have come from my favourite songs from the respective albums. >> There are a couple of Zappa albums that qualify too, IIRC > >"Man From Utopia" comes to mind. Not that it was such a great album, >though. I was particularly thinking of such albums as "Weasels ripped my flesh" and "Ship arriving too late..." James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:22:12 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum Quoting Jeff Dwarf : > On a similar bend, Bauhaus In the Flat Field. Though that may > just be the terminal breeder male in me. I just don't really need > penis on my record sleeves "Hey! You've got penis on my record sleeves!" "Oh yeah? You've got record sleeves on my penis!" ..Jeff, who promises never to title an album "Penis on My Sleeve" J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: we make everything you need, and you need everything we make ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:32:34 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Sold Out Looks like Robyn's birthday gig is now sold out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:33:18 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum Jason writes, > I have to admit to disliking about of King Crimson's album covers, > especially the annoying art for Power to Believe, Happy With What You Have > to Be Happy With and Cirkus. The 80s album covers were overly bland, too. Wow, I love all those covers -- the primary-colored minimalism of the 80s, and the weird artwork of the last few. In fact, "Power to Believe," which would be a corny title from most groups but with KC seems a bit sinister, has an *awesome* album cover! http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008BXJF.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Man, weird medical equipment, a strange baby, burning cities, and people in gas masks! What's not to like, Jason? - --Quail PS: Another bad cover for a good album: Black Sabbath's "Paranoid." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:13:00 -0500 From: John McIntyre Subject: Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Okay, in the '70s the album that finally made me give up on Tull: _The > Broadsword and the Beast_. Yes, the cover's as awful as the title's as awful > as the music. You should have seen the stage show. That "broadsword" looked like an oversized letter opener. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:28:22 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Worst Album Cover for a GoodAlbum At 10:33 AM 2/20/2003 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: >http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008BXJF.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg > >Man, weird medical equipment, a strange baby, burning cities, and people in >gas masks! What's not to like, Jason? For me, it's not the subject matter at all, but the style in which the covers are painted. And they've been using this type of art (I assume by the same artist) for a great deal of recent releases, especially live albums like Ladies of the Road, Absent Lovers, Cirkus, some of the ProjeKcts, Heavy ConstruKction, Night Watch, etc. It just doesn't appeal to me at all. I did like the covers for albums like B'Boom, Thrak, VROOOM, the ConstruKction of Light, and most of Fripp's solo soundscape discs. - --Jason np: The Power to Believe "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:12:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Where do you hang out online? Thanks, everyone, for your input. Keep 'em coming. So far I've been introduced to quite a few great web-based communities -- I'm always suprised and impressed to discover new, fully evolved communities about things I didn't know existed. My online community habits have greatly influenced how I regard the broadcast media. I no longer watch TV news (or much TV, for that matter). When I am in front of the TV it's to watch Enterprise or a movie I've rented from Netflix. I get my news online from the wires or blogs. Lately I find the participatory push-pull culture of the web much more satisfying than the non-participatory push culture of broadcast TV. . Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:42:45 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: The Bad Album Cover Version TC's favorite album cover: >>Now that one's easy: Ween's "Chocolate & Cheese" I hadn't seen that post before I slagged that cover. But I'd forgotten the *name* of the record, which makes it that much more problematic for me... Despite having defended a few of Neil Young's LP covers, I will admit to strongly disliking almost ALL of his CD-era covers. "Sleeps With Angels" is especially dreadful, but almost all of them look like Photoshop experiments circa 1991 or so. I do like the "Reckoning" sleeve, though. Again, it looks much lamer at CD-size, but so do "Sgt. Pepper" and "The Basement Tapes"... There's just a fundamental difference between a good LP cover and a good CD cover. For some reason Massive Attack's "Protection" sticks in my mind as the first time I picked up a CD and though, "Hey, they figured it out-- this looks great at this size, and wouldn't if it was four times bigger." - -Rex, who just missed out on a vinyl copy of the Basement Tapes at a recent yardsale, but did score "The Brothers Four Sing Lennon & McCartney" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:27:17 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: bad album covers where I hang out Album covers-- Does anyone really like the cover of Music From Big Pink? But I think the cover of Self Portrait may be better than the record. Since Tonight's the Night & Mirrorball were mentioned, ol' Neal has quite a list of bad covers, such as his first solo & After the Goldrush. But I think American Stars 'n' Bars is head & shoulders below them. Dr. Byrds & Mister Hyde having been mentioned, I don't think the Byrds had many good album covers, but it may be no fair picking on 60s albums. That Sam & Dave record cover is a fine example of being what it is. My favorite album cover is the White Album. Didn't Big Black's Hammer Party have a monumentally tasteless accident photo on the cover? - --- Digital hangouts-- Not sure if Eugene is interested in mailing lists or online forums, like www.stevehoffman.tv, where I've seen his posts but never bothered to sign up. Some extensive web sites w/ quickly archived lists (just like here) I frequent-- The Electronic Poetry Center (at SUNY/Buffalo) wings.buffalo.edu/epc/ and its list, Poetics listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html I wish I knew a list this good dealing w/ more main-stream poetry. Also, sometimes Literary Kicks (beat generation stuff) http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html I've also lurked a bit at The Modern Word's Spiral Bound. :) groups.yahoo.com/group/Spiral-Bound/ And the forums at www.pcmag.com, particularly those responding to John Dvorak. Plus various stabs at setting up personal & extended family groups at Yahoo, but we always bailed eventually & just emailed each other. It *is* a decent way to do anonymous Xmas gift suggestions for a medium-large group. Last but not least my dear old www.procolharum.com, where we're anticipating the 1st new album in eleven years, but I mostly use the website or list & avoid the clunky boards. Ross Taylor "He says, please don't hear you, he can shout." -- Firesign Theatre Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:22:28 -0800 From: Eb Subject: anti-war movement http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/ If you can bear the download wait, this page makes a powerful statement. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:49:00 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: anti-war movement on 2/20/03 1:22 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/ > > If you can bear the download wait, this page makes a powerful statement. Wow, I had no idea the protests were so widespread. Even Antarctica - cool! I know it's always a crapshoot to do crowd estimation, but has anyone seen a worldwide estimate of total protestors? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:53:22 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: anti-war movement At 01:49 PM 2/20/2003 -0800, Tom Clark wrote: >I know it's always a crapshoot to do crowd estimation, but has anyone seen a >worldwide estimate of total protestors? About 30 million. http://www.guardian.co.uk/antiwar/story/0,12809,897098,00.html Thank you, Eddie Tews! - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:54:36 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: No wonder the world is so fucked up... You know, this isn't really too far from "Virgin Gives Birth To Son in Barn". - -tc Feb 20, 9:05 AM (ET) JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - A mother has claimed that a genie circumcised her 10-month-old son while she was cooking breakfast, the state news agency Antara reported Thursday. The report did not say whether the toddler, Riyan Abdullah, experienced any complications as a result of the operation, which allegedly took place early Wednesday close to the town of Tasikmalaya, on Java island 250 miles southeast of Jakarta, the agency reported. "When I heard Riyan crying, I went straight to his bedroom and couldn't believe what my eyes saw," Riyan's mother, identified only as Ineng, told Antara. "He had been circumcised." The family immediately suspected it was the work of a genie, belief in which is widespread in Indonesia. They summoned a local paranormal to the house who confirmed their suspicions, the report said. More than 90 percent of Indonesia's 210 million are Muslim, though many still believe in sprits and the unseen world. According to Islamic tradition, Indonesian boys are normally circumcised, usually when they reach the age of 6 or 7. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:59:11 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: anti-war movement I got into work today and one of my coworkers told me that a picture of me with my roommate's 'Who Would Jesus Bomb?' sign from this weekend is "famous". At 1:22 PM -0800 2/20/03, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "Eb" and whispered: >http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/ > >If you can bear the download wait, this page makes a powerful statement. > >Eb - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") "Moderation in all things, except Wild Turkey." - Evel Knievel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:00:37 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: anti-war movement - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eb" To: "fgz" Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 16:22 Subject: anti-war movement > http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/ > > If you can bear the download wait, this page makes a powerful statement. It's funny, because on one of the posters (from Nice, France) is a picture of Chirac and Hussein, with text saying "Thirty Years of Close Relations." Thirty years of close Franco-Iraqi relations is right...starting some time in the mid-seventies when the French sold Iraq their first nuclear reactors and enough uranium to build three or four bombs. It's not surprising that Chirac is so against *any* action being taken against Hussein, once you read a bit of the history. The article can be found here: http://www.stratfor.com/promo/Story.neo?site=usiraq&s=210275&promo=1 Some protestors surprisingly displaying common sense here: http://www.ochremedia.com/protest.php4 - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:10:24 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: No wonder the world is so fucked up... Moyel In A Bottle? - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:11:10 -0800 From: "Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)" Subject: RE: anti-war movement Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat wroteL > I got into work today and one of my coworkers told me that a picture of me > with my roommate's 'Who Would Jesus Bomb?' sign from this weekend is > "famous". > Shit, Michael, the answer to that question is obvious. Jesus would bomb the Romans. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:52:01 +0000 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: anti-war movement Yes - we should be thankful that we have the likes of Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and good ol' Dubya there to protect the human rights of all the people of the world, eh? Although ISTR Cheney and Rumsfeld were quite happy to give a certain dictator enough weapons to help kill a million Iranians in a war that delivered the same fate to a million Iraqis, no? Could it be that some of our Western governments are completely self-interested and couldn't give a toss about the world's poor and suffering peoples? Blimey... Sometimes war is the only way to peace; sometimes the only way to help some of the very poorest people on Earth is to bomb their houses and kill their family - it's simple er, common sense... Cheers Matt >From: "FS Thomas" >Reply-To: "FS Thomas" >To: "The Oracle" >Subject: Re: anti-war movement >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:00:37 -0500 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eb" >To: "fgz" >Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 16:22 >Subject: anti-war movement > > > > http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/ > > > > If you can bear the download wait, this page makes a powerful statement. > >It's funny, because on one of the posters (from Nice, France) is a picture >of Chirac and Hussein, with text saying "Thirty Years of Close Relations." >Thirty years of close Franco-Iraqi relations is right...starting some time >in the mid-seventies when the French sold Iraq their first nuclear reactors >and enough uranium to build three or four bombs. It's not surprising that >Chirac is so against *any* action being taken against Hussein, once you read >a bit of the history. The article can be found here: > >http://www.stratfor.com/promo/Story.neo?site=usiraq&s=210275&promo=1 > >Some protestors surprisingly displaying common sense here: >http://www.ochremedia.com/protest.php4 > >-f. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:58:49 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Turn On the Thick Smoke Those of you who belong to a certain other list know that I was, shall we say, under siege for the past week or so. I feel like the below hot ticket was a bit of karmic payback, because it was a direct by-product of that silliness. I saw Interpol on Tuesday. An *excellent* show. I caught the group on the Carson Daly show a few weeks ago, and was disappointed that the performances somehow failed to capture their mystique. Perhaps harsh TV lighting was to blame, because Tuesday's date retained *all* of the album's haunting atmosphere. The venue was the Henry Fonda Theater, on Hollywood Boulevard itself. The floorplan suggests it must have been an old-fashioned movie theater, in years gone by. I believe that I've only been here twice before: a Chris Cornell show circa his solo album, and a much earlier Redd Kross/Screaming Trees/Cowsills bill. As I entered the performance area, I had a big surprise. The second deck remains a traditional balcony with aisles and seats, but the seats on the main floor have been torn out! Wonderful. This leaves a great space with easy traffic flow and very few obstructed views (well, at least if you're not short). A superior alternative to the similar Mayan Theater, with its horrible ramp-only access to the main floor. The first band was supposed to be someone called the Stills, but apparently, they were unable to fly out to L.A. because New York is one giant Slushee. In their place came a scrappy trio called Moving Units. I didn't know a thing about this band, and the Web has surprisingly little information about them. The Web *did* reveal that they have an EP on Palm Pictures. Also, that they're local, which you would never guess from hearing the music. Tonight's triple bill had a very clear theme: American bands who wish they were British. Moving Units were entertaining to watch, but I suspect that I wouldn't be engaged by the music on disc. The sound is all about bruising rhythm and groove, mildly reminiscient of a hopped-up Girls Against Boys. However, the primary influence seems to be popular British acts of the early '80s like the Cure, Gang of Four and (especially in the fluid-funky bass lines) Duran Duran. Except all the songs were sped up 50% for that frantic, chaotic feel. The bassist was a good player, and the drummer was one of those sweaty, hairy animals who's all over the drum kit in a fun way. The singer/guitarist had one of those "yelp" voices, and was probably the least attractive element. They held my attention, but they weren't received too well in general. Next up were the Warlocks, another local band which was unknown to me. The Web tells me the leader used to be in Charles Brown Superstar and the Brian Jonestown Massacre, and that he played on Beck's early Flipside album. This band was pretty dull, unfortunately. There were seven people onstage, including two drummers and a female organist, but they didn't add up to much. I kept wishing that I was at a Spiritualized/Spacemen 3 show instead, because the influence was awfully obvious. Especially in the way the keyboard kept sustaining those thin, droning BEERONNNNNNNNNNNNNERONNNNNNNNNN notes. The songs were generally based on some simple four-chord pattern, endlessly repeated for hypnotic effect. Except this conceit never generated any real tension -- either the song was too fast, or too straightforward in rhythm. Just boom, boom, boom, boom in 4/4. I ended up sitting against a wall in back for about half of this set, and actually *fell asleep* for a couple of minutes. The crowd crush increased for Interpol, naturally. Lots of happy KROQ kids -- despite the goth element of Interpol's music, there was no strong visual motif in the audience. Remember when alt-rock fans looked *different* from night to night, depending on the bands? The anticipation grew to tense levels, after there seemed to be some technical problems which delayed the performance. Instead of raising the curtain on the band as with the other acts, the curtain rose...on an empty stage. A roadie or two wandered in and out, now and then. What's going on here? Meanwhile, we got...THE SMOKE MACHINE. I have never liked this gimmick and, due to being fairly anti-goth in orientation, I've rarely experienced it. Love & Rockets and the Jesus & Mary Chain shows come to mind, but few others. So, we watched the roadies fiddling with microphones and speakers, amidst dramatic smoke and deep red lighting. Peculiar. After 10-15 minutes of this, the band finally emerged. Five guys in dark suits, two with floppy New Wave haircuts. The bassist's sideburns were so sharp that they could almost draw blood. Maybe I respond differently to Interpol than most other fans, because I'm probably not a fan of the group's biggest UK influences. But their sound connects to that place in me which enjoys the subdued side of vintage Sonic Youth, or Band of Susans and Glenn Branca. There's just something terribly magnetic about those even, subtly shifting guitar harmonics, while the unhinged drummer breaks up the landscape with his more "free" playing. And the vocals...wow, what presence and command. I'm usually resistant to vocals with too much reverb, but it fits perfectly in this case. I also like that the lad isn't as mannered and exaggerated as other Peter Murphy/Ian Curtis types. He sang quite well onstage (which definitely wasn't a given), and the musicianship was awfully tight and disciplined for such a young, somewhat awkward-looking band. Since most of us know the group's sound, there's not much point in describing it further. The set was about an hour -- I'm not sure how many non-LP songs were performed. Certainly, no covers of the Ohio Express or the like were added. The show's only notable flaw was an early sound problem. Inevitably, the band opened with "Untitled" (surely, this was the year's best first-track-on-an-album?) but the singer's guitar wasn't properly amplified. When he tried to add his guitar part -- you know, those sustained, gorgeously divebombing notes which are the whole hook of the track? -- nothing came through the speakers. The others hammered on the introduction a bit longer than they should have, but the problem wasn't resolved. The singer finally just shrugged to someone offstage at the right, and carried on without guitar. The song had an obvious hole, however. The difficulties cleared up by the second tune, and everything was smooth sailing from there on. The dusky red lighting stayed fairly steady throughout the set, except for one surprise bit of fashionable flag-waving: during "NYC," a background projection was added. White stars on a blue field. The unsubtle message didn't really fit the tone of the show, but hey, it is the boys' hometown. It was easy to get close to the stage if one was willing to stake out a spot early, and I was only 10 or 15 feet from the musicians. I ended up standing behind a petite little gal who "danced cute" -- you know, all those dainty, bird-like, over-the-head hand flicks which only short girls can pull off without looking ridiculous? Something about having her in the vicinity enhanced the experience, and got my body more involved in the pulse than usual. So, I give grateful thanks to her and her tireless booty-shaking. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:09:32 -0800 From: "Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)" Subject: RE: anti-war movement matt sewell [mailto:matt_sewell@hotmail.com] wrote: > Yes - we should be thankful that we have the likes of Dick Cheney, Donald > Rumsfeld and good ol' Dubya there to protect the human rights of all the > people of the world, eh? Although ISTR Cheney and Rumsfeld were quite > happy to give a certain dictator enough weapons to help kill a million > Iranians in a war that delivered the same fate to a million Iraqis, no? Hey reagan and company came along to give the Iranians weapons to boot so its all good. The US is an Equal opportunity bastard. > Could it be that some of our Western governments are completely > self-interested and couldn't give a toss about the world's poor and > suffering peoples? Blimey... > > Sometimes war is the only way to peace; sometimes the only way to help > some of the very poorest people on Earth is to bomb their houses and kill > their family - it's simple er, common sense... Well wouldn't another 12 years of sanctions end up killing more innocent Iraqis? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:42:04 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: anti-war movement At 5:00 PM -0500 2/20/03, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "FS Thomas" and whispered: >It's funny, because on one of the posters (from Nice, France) is a picture >of Chirac and Hussein, with text saying "Thirty Years of Close Relations." >Thirty years of close Franco-Iraqi relations is right...starting some time >in the mid-seventies when the French sold Iraq their first nuclear reactors >and enough uranium to build three or four bombs. It's not surprising that >Chirac is so against *any* action being taken against Hussein, once you >read >a bit of the history. The article can be found here: > >http://www.stratfor.com/promo/Story.neo?site=usiraq&s=210275&promo=1 > >Some protestors surprisingly displaying common sense here: >http://www.ochremedia.com/protest.php4 > >-f. Yes, that sneaky France! Pretending to be our ally all this time, while probably secretly waiting for the day they could betray us for the sake of their evil masters in Baghdad! Wow, that's amazingly cynical, implying that the only reason France could be against this war is because they are "with the enemy", so to speak. Sure, France must be with the bad guys. That's it. Being, say, SANE, or NOT RULED BY GREED, or NOT FOOLED BY LYING AMERICAN LEADERS couldn't possibly have anything to do with it! Also, uh, we have a *bit* of history with Hussein ourselves, of exactly the sort that this article casts aspersions upon French leadership for having... not that that's important, though, right? My country, right or wrong! America uber alles! I'm going to file this article under "hypocritical propaganda" and forget about it. This is exactly the sort of effort at demonization of any and all opposition that is historically so common from societies trying to rationalize immoral courses of action. At 10:52 PM +0000 2/20/03, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "matt sewell" and whispered: > Sometimes war is the only way to peace; sometimes the only way to help >some of the very poorest people on Earth is to bomb their houses and kill >their family - it's simple er, common sense... Yes, sometimes you must destroy a village to save it, as a very wise man once said. Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") "Moderation in all things, except Wild Turkey." - Evel Knievel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:45:08 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Poll question of the day http://pub20.ezboard.com/fkingofpopdiscussionfrm15.showMessage?topicID=141.topic&pollResults=on ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:47:56 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: anti-war movement At 5:00 PM -0500 2/20/03, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "FS Thomas" and whispered: >Some protestors surprisingly displaying common sense here: Right you are! It's totally surprising for a protestor to have common sense... for as everybody knows, the vast, overriding majority of protestors are usually total idiots! Right, guys? Common sense from a protestor! Wow, what's next... now I've seen it all! You just made my email killfile for that remark. Seeya. Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") "Moderation in all things, except Wild Turkey." - Evel Knievel ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #61 *******************************