From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #44 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 6 2003 Volume 12 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- well... [Jim Davies ] Re: It's All Over My Database, Baby Blue [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #43 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Baby blue... [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Big baby... [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Re: My Next CD Purchase [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Open Letter to Capuchin [gSs ] Re: Open Letter to Capuchin [The Great Quail ] Re: Open Letter to Capuchin [Aaron Mandel ] Signel to Noise ["Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" ] Best of RH? ["Charlotte Tupman" ] Re: Best of RH? [John Barrington Jones ] Re: Best of RH? ["Mike Wells" ] Re: Best of RH? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Best of RH? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Signel to Noise [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Best of RH? [brian@lazerlove5.com] Fegmania: Not just a list, but an album! ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Fegmania: Not just a list, but an album! [brian@lazerlove5.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:17:55 GMT From: Jim Davies Subject: well... The Quail certainly doesn't speak for me (and nice one matt, hope the stitches are healing okay) I think that Jeme is absolutely spot on. Just reading that spookily-prescient (or just truthful) article from the Washington monthly did it for me. NASA are (run by) a bunch of wankers. Without a doubt. If only half of the spookily prescient 1980 Easterbrook article (Washington Monthly) is true, then they should be in jail. But then a lot of people in the States ought to be in jail. Not necessarily the ones who are. x - -- Even weirder, the best song ever about this kind of thing - Uncle Sam's on Mars - is by Hawkwind, of all people. Earth calling, Captain Quail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:34:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: It's All Over My Database, Baby Blue "Rex.Broome" wrote: > Fire up the databases, here's another one for you. What single > composition do you own the most copies of? Renditions: either "Hey Joe" (Byrds, Love, Leaves, Jimi, Robert Plant) or "This Wheel's on Fire" (Band, Byrds, Bawb, Siouxsie, and someone else -- not Julie Driscoll though). Remixes/live versions/covers/etc: probably "Strangelove" though "The Circus" might be close. If only they almost all didn't start with that annoying accordion at the start.... > While I don't have the ability to check this easily, for me the > answer almost absolutely has to be "It's All Over Now, Baby > Blue". In addition to what must be six or so versions by Dylan > himself, I have a few copies apiece of the two distinct > versions by the Byrds, the one by Them, and the one by > the 13th Floor Elevators; last year alone I ended up with > Robyn's version, the Bunnymen's, and yet another one by Bob > himself. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some. > > For bonus points there's Beck's "Jackass", based on a loop from > the Them > version of IAONBB, and "Burro", his Spanish version of same, > not to mention > Neil Young's "Barstool Blues" which is practically the same > song. And I > have covers of THAT one by both Soul Asylum and the Wedding > Present. > > -Rex > > np Gene Clark, "No Other" (he sounds a lot like Gene Clark to > me, James!) ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:54:11 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: Counting versions From: "Rex.Broome" >Fire up the databases, here's another one for you. What single composition >do you own the most copies of? Discounting lives and boots I manage a meagre 3 for She. Firstly the classic Monkees version that we all know (and love). Secondly the manic Dickies version with speaker hopping keyboard solo. Last and least a dreary version by the Colourfield from their disappointingly dull and dreary second album Deception. Brian np Hedningarna Karelia _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:11:31 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V12 #43 >Fire up the databases, here's another one for you. What single composition >do you own the most copies of? oh kerrist. Well, I actively collect versions of "Tomorrow Never Knows", so that is probably at the top of the list. Off the top of my head I also have "Gimme some truth" by four different artists, and "In a sentimental mood", of all things. I used to own that Rhino album of covers of "Louie Louie" but I decided to give my sanity a break and got rid of it. From rereading the original post, I see that you're including different versions by the same artist. That makes things doubly, trebly, even quarply difficult, but it's quite possible that it would thus become "Airscape"! Thanks to bootlegs and the like, that is well into double figures. From our correspondent with the Fs: >The British music lawyer who's quoted downlink from the original article has >a curious idea: he suspected that the case (had it gone to trial) wouldn't >have stood because, he felt, music is notes. This is poor musical >understanding: silence is, and always has been, a huge part of music, not >just for avant garde conceptual artists. Would the opening of Beethoven's >5th (duh-duh-duh daah...) be as effective if all the notes were sustained >until the next ones entered? No - the silence (rests) is part of the piece. I wonder what would have happened if Batt had claimed that he'd just sampled four bars of silence from Cage's work and used it as part of his 'composition'. IIRC you're allowed to sample up to eight bars before you get into problems with copyright. Another interesting thing: the 'composition' is entitled "A minute's Silence". So does Mike Batt royalties next time respects are paid to someone who has died? Senor jenor continues: >:: "Music is the cup that holds the wine of silence" >:: Robert Fripp very apposite >Robert Lindsay might be able to crack it if he can dumb >himself down a little, but not too much. heh. It has been claimed by some that as I get older my looks are moving closer to Robert Lindsay's around the time of "The Wimbledon Poisoner". Compared to some comments I've had about my looks, I'll consider it a compliment. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:46:54 +0000 (GMT) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Baby blue... Link Wray did a borderline heavy metal version on his album Bullshot. Mad! Crowbar Joe Rex rote While I don't have the ability to check this easily, for me the answer almost absolutely has to be "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue". In addition to what must be six or so versions by Dylan himself, I have a few copies apiece of the two distinct versions by the Byrds, the one by Them, and the one by the 13th Floor Elevators; last year alone I ended up with Robyn's version, the Bunnymen's, and yet another one by Bob himself. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:51:40 +0000 (GMT) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Big baby... Quail, You've often paraded yourself as the voice of reason here (and even manage to inject a little self-serving Voltaireanism into your attack)...but, to me, this juvenile vitriol is beneath contempt. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:06:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: My Next CD Purchase On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Tom Clark wrote: > http://www.buymulletsrock.com/ > -t "Mississippi Queen" c What, no Black Crowes? :) - - Mike "down around Vicksburg" Godwin PS Surely the classic R'n'R H C is by Johnny Winter And, not the Zehringer version ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:31:53 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Open Letter to Capuchin On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, matt sewell wrote: > Also I think humourless personal attacks like this don't really have a > place on the list. is that all inclusive, or just this one? gSs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:36:34 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Open Letter to Capuchin Before I reply, I have this to say: I stand by what I said, and I am glad I said it. I would like to point out that Jeme has been away for a while. Upon his return, what does he do? Does he say a cheery "hello" and talk about Robyn? No, he immediately calls someone's post "bullshit," then proceeds with one tendentious post after another. But the graceless reductionism of his NASA post was breathtaking to me. Though I despise Bush, though I despise the Israelis for turning the tragedy into political propaganda, though I accept that NASA can be rightfully criticized, to hear him crap all over a group of brave and intelligent souls -- I am speechless. Like the WTC before, Jeme has shown himself through his writing to be a pompous ass, if not a borderline sociopath, utterly uncaring about any human dimensions of loss, grief, or tragedy, and only concerned with using it as material for his endless political screed. The List-Jeme is a heartless robot programmed only to agitate. I do realize this, however -- this Feg List is not what it used to be, which is only natural. But as for myself, I have either two choices: quit and preserve my dignity, or become even more crabby. And I am not taking my toys and going home -- but over the last few years, the political discussions on this list have run their course in my soul, and I have come out the other side a bit changed -- less patient, more cranky, and certainly less tolerant. In this spirit, I respond to my English critics, each in measure of the spirit of their own reply: Matt writes, > Without any rancour to anyone, I'd have to point out that I couldn't > agree less with this. Also I think humourless personal attacks like this > don't really have a place on the list. Well, to be called "humorless" in comparison to Jeme is telling. I don't think I am generally humorless, but I do confess that Jeme is one person who can make me so, and I apologize -- my attack *was* humorless, because I have exhausted my supply of humor with regards to Jeme years ago. It's all in the archives. I recognize this as my own failing, but before I can pass into "amusement" regarding Capuchin, I have to pass through "disgust" first. So hang in there, Matt. I'm sorry that you feel this way -- though you are probably right. Jim writes, > NASA are (run by) a bunch of wankers. Without a doubt. If only half > of the spookily prescient 1980 Easterbrook article (Washington > Monthly) is true, then they should be in jail. > > But then a lot of people in the States ought to be in jail. Not > necessarily the ones who are. I am to feel chastised by you, sir? I am afraid not. I let your utterly unbiased analysis speak for itself. Does this pass for intelligent political discourse in your circle? Newbie Crowbar Jim writes, > You've often paraded yourself as the voice of reason here (and even manage to > inject a little self-serving Voltaireanism into your attack)...but, to me, > this juvenile vitriol is beneath contempt. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about what you think. I've only read a few of your posts in the past, so why should I care now? Though I'll say this for the record: 1. Though your locution was technically acceptable, the verb "parade" nevertheless implies a sequence of items. Perhaps an even better way of putting it could have been: "In an endless parade of posts wherein you claim to be the voice of reason...." Or, "Like a some strutting & preening Voltairean Peacock, you have often styl'd yourself as the Voice of Reason...." 2. Speaking of which, I have never claimed to be the voice of reason. Chris Gross and Steve Schiavo are the voices of reason. I have too much of a temper. 3. Additionally, Voltaire's comment by its very nature is implicitly self-serving. And I should note, I stand by those words -- I am no list Nazi. 4. If you think my post was composed of "vitriol," I have no idea what to say. I am sure this one will make you spill you tea! - --Quail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.TheModernWord.com Better hope deferred than none. Up to a point. Till the heart starts to sicken. Company too up to a point. Better a sick heart than none. Till it starts to break. So speaking of himself he concludes for the time being, For the time being leave it at that. --Samuel Beckett, "Company" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Open Letter to Capuchin On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, The Great Quail wrote: > Like the WTC before, Jeme has shown himself through his writing to be a > pompous ass, if not a borderline sociopath, I am shocked to hear you calling the World Trade Center a pompous ass and a borderline sociopath! What did it ever do to you to deserve that? aaron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 16:36:52 +0000 From: "Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" Subject: Signel to Noise All, well, almost all, I want for Christmas is "Jesus Christ, Vampire Slayer." - -------------- The Phil Spector thing brings two things to mind, connected. Privilage can be its own hell. Everyone and their dog has heard that Spector was in bad shape for decades. There was a Rock n Roll Hall of Fame bit that proved it beyond despute. And Im going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here, and for the duration of this post, work with the conciet that he is guilty. But its only a conciet, he may be innocent. Spector is rich. A very poor man in like condition might be living either on the streets or on Social Security disability. When he got out of hand he'd be picked up by the police, hospitalized for a short period of time and then released with meds he might or might not take. He probobly wouldnt have enough money for a gun, thou he might. If he ever got his hands on one and threatened someone--he would never be legally able to get a gun again. He might be able to kill someone, it has often happened, but the vunrabilities of his existence might also make him afraid to act out. If working or middle class he would probobly be living at home or in a group home, on major meds supervised by his family. If he got violent they would try to have him hospitalized. Either way life would treat him roughly but he himself wouldn't have a whole lot of power. Spector has had power, because of his talent but also because of the money he made from his talent. Power to own guns, terrorize people and -- get away with it --. In some ways alot like the Du Pont guy who shot the wresteling coach. In some ways it might have been better for Spector(and the Du Pont guy) not to have been so rich, not to have had the power to do whataever they wanted. Its sad that Spector was allowed to be in a position to kill someone, thou not as sad as it is for the dead woman or her kin. I have a quote somewhere from Brook Astor where she says that huge amounts of money can have a toxic effect. And she would know. The power that money brings is a power that can easily turn agaist itself because it protects the rich from having to take responsibility for their actions. It buffers them from reality, from the consequences of their actions. Because Spector was protected by sharp lawyers, expensive bodyguards and accomidating servents he didnt have enough ally's to help him battle or control his own demons. Part of him probobly thought he was invinsible and in many ways, he was. What to do about wealth and poverty is an on-going ever-changing conversation in my mind. People need to be motivated to do their best work, and for most people, money is the strongest motivater. I dont think there are any of us for whom it is no motivater at all. Too much personal taxation seems to lead to dulled motivation. People feel why work harder or take a risk if they cant gain much from it? Its a good argument against too high tax levels, especially on the middle ranges. Yet personal wealth spent on often absurd luxeries could obviously be better used taking care of people's basic needs. And it could be argued that wealth at a certain level is toxic and does harm to the wealthy. So thats why I basicially think a graduated tax system is best, but one with a 99% at a high level. And no tax write-offs, for anyone or anything.(Im torn and undescided about charity excemptions.) If Phil Spector had been taxed so he couldnt cocoon himself in delusions of invincibility, it would have been better for him. And if the social services had suffiecient money, the mentally ill would could be adequately taken care of. Which they are not now. How our society treats those who -can- not help themselves is one of the great horrors of our supposed civilization. So, two threads for the price of one. And anyone who would like to diccuss this with me in a courteaous, honorable way -- I would love to learn more by engaging in an intelligent conversation. The above is just my personal opinion, and an always changing one at that. - --------------- Quail, My concern with the list and induviduals on the list is that we have more signel than noise going. Posts that are rude or stupid I see as noise and scroll over quickly. Posts that are interesting, witty, eye-opening, thoughtful, beautiful, smart, funny, informative, wry, challanging in a open-minded way, cute, heartwarming, engagingly surreal, charming or otherwise "not a waste of time" I read as signel and treat accordingly. I don't really know how to increase signel and cut noise, but Im all for it if we could work something out along such lines. Kay Like pornography, conspiracy theory should be regarded strictly as entertainment, not a guide to real life. Chris Gross, Fegmaniax, 1-29-03 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 16:58:22 +0000 From: "Charlotte Tupman" Subject: Best of RH? I've been asked by a friend (and newcomer to RH) to make her a tape of the 'best of Robyn Hitchcock' (to include some Soft Boys tracks). As I couldn't possibly contemplate such a task without consultation with fellow Fegs, does anyone think that there are certain tracks that I really *must* include?! Charlotte _________________________________________________________________ Chat online in real time with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:07:20 -0800 (PST) From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Re: Best of RH? Charlotte - I think "Autumn Sea" is a must-include on any "Best Of" compilation. It shows off three fine aspects of Robyn: a) his spoken word stuff (normally between songs, but), b) his ability to blend emotion with his eclectic verse, and c) his penchant for melody. =jbj= On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Charlotte Tupman wrote: > I've been asked by a friend (and newcomer to RH) to make her a tape of the > 'best of Robyn Hitchcock' (to include some Soft Boys tracks). As I couldn't > possibly contemplate such a task without consultation with fellow Fegs, does > anyone think that there are certain tracks that I really *must* include?! > > Charlotte > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat online in real time with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:12:58 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Re: Best of RH? > I've been asked by a friend (and newcomer to RH) to make her a tape of the > 'best of Robyn Hitchcock' (to include some Soft Boys tracks). As I couldn't > possibly contemplate such a task without consultation with fellow Fegs, does > anyone think that there are certain tracks that I really *must* include?! "Old Pervert" "Cynthia Mask" "Winchester" "I Am Not Me" "Strings" Michael "and how about 'Furry Green Atom Bowl'?" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:29:07 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Best of RH? For me, that would have to include: Cynthia Mask The Speed Of Things Trilobite I Feel Beautiful Arms Of Love (which, curiously enough, he played in that order in one set last time he visited Toronto.) For Soft Boys: Human Music Old Pervert Om Lots of people will disagree with those suggestions, but then, they're not a Scottish programmer sitting in a financial backoffice in Toronto wondering "what the !@#$%^ am I doing here?". Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:30:44 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Best of RH? > Michael "and how about 'Furry Green Atom Bowl'?" > Wells aha! It was you that always yelled that whenever Robyn played Scotland! Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:51:06 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Signel to Noise Quoting "Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" : > Too much personal > taxation > seems to lead to dulled motivation. People feel why work harder or take a > risk if they cant gain much from it? I've heard this, of course...but I wonder, does anyone here know anyone who actually thinks this: that is, "I'm not going to try to make more money or work harder because taxes are too high"? People complain about taxes, of course - and I'm not now arguing about whether taxes might be too high - but I find it difficult to believe that a perception of their being too high would be a disincentive toward working or making money. It's not as if the tax rates are higher for you personally, or that working less and making less money will make things better for you (unless there's an extremely poorly constructed, non-stepped tax system). (I think the rest of Kay's message is interesting and thoughtful - I'm just quibbling with this part of it, out of context.) ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman np: Red House Painters _Ocean Beach_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 13:52:27 +0000 (GMT) From: brian@lazerlove5.com Subject: Re: Best of RH? In no particular order: Om Black Snake Diamond Rock Groovin on an Inner Plane (original version) Globe of Frogs Strings Uncorrected Personality Traits (over played, but for a 1st time listener..) Pretty Girl Winchester 52 Stations Autumn Sea! I got the Hots Do the Chisel Helitrope Cool Bug Rumble The list goes on... Nuppy Quoting Charlotte Tupman : > I've been asked by a friend (and newcomer to RH) to make her a tape of > the > 'best of Robyn Hitchcock' (to include some Soft Boys tracks). As I > couldn't > possibly contemplate such a task without consultation with fellow Fegs, > does > anyone think that there are certain tracks that I really *must* > include?! > > Charlotte > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat online in real time with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:10:05 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Fegmania: Not just a list, but an album! Eb's most copious tune: >>In my case, I'm pretty sure it's "Hey Joe." Maybe depending on >>whether you meant "most copies," or "most copies by different >>artists." I meant flat-out most copies. Really skews things. I have a lotta Hey Joe's too. It's funny how Hendrix's version totally changed that song forever. There are only a few years between the Byrds/Love/etc. high velocity versions, the Hendrix, and then all the subsequent slower versions... I'm thinking particularly of the version by the Creation, Hendrix-style, which is interesting in that the Creation were practically contemporaries of the earlier bands who did it fast. __________ Quail: >>Having you back is like rediscovering the taste of something awful. Leaving aside the nature of your post, this singular statement is truly AWESOME! Quail, you of course get dibs, but if you don't want it, can I crib that for a lyric some day? ________ So, oddly, I just now for the first time heard the Rhino edition of "Fegmania!" (with an exclamation mark). Odd little demos. The live tracks are totally different from what I expected-- what was the context for those? I swear Robyn is actually playing "Eight Miles High" at one point during "Egyptian Cream". And another interesting thing on these tracks is that, while I've gotten used to Robyn getting a pretty efficient jangle out of his Telecaster, there seems to be some genuine 12-stringery going on here (certainly on "Rhymney") but the '80's guitar processing makes it really hard to tell. In fact, other than Groovy Gravy (where it's understandable and sort of counter to Robyn's will), this album sound-wise is more tied to the '80's than any of the rest... things were fine back on BSDR and seemed to go back to normal on EOL. Anyone else get this vibe? That said, I would love to hear the Modern New Soft Boys Quartet Experience Boys tear into "I'm Only You", with Robyn and Kimberley ripping up that ending Marquee Moon-style. A much more natural SB's fit than "Man with the Lightbulb Head", as much fun as that was. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:26:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Signel to Noise > Quoting "Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" : > > Too much personal taxation seems to lead to dulled motivation. People > > feel why work harder or take a risk if they cant gain much from it? On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I've heard this, of course...but I wonder, does anyone here know anyone who > actually thinks this: that is, "I'm not going to try to make more money or > work harder because taxes are too high"? > People complain about taxes, of course - and I'm not now arguing about > whether taxes might be too high - but I find it difficult to believe that a > perception of their being too high would be a disincentive toward working > or making money. It's not as if the tax rates are higher for you > personally, or that working less and making less money will make things > better for you (unless there's an extremely poorly constructed, non-stepped > tax system). My recollection is that Prof C V ("Chuck") Brown was asked to do some research on this for Mrs Thatcher in the UK. He failed to find any convincing evidence of disincentive effects of taxation, and in her usual unbiased manner she dismissed his thorough, academic report as nonsense. You will remember from your first semester economics that any change in net wages has both a substitution effect (it alters the attractiveness of work) and an income effect (it alters the amount of work you need to do to attain a target income). As these two effects work in opposite directions, there is no theoretical way to predict which will dominate. There have been one or two ambiguous bits of evidence that the very top bracket taxpayers might be put off additional work by high taxes, but if you're the kind of person that can command a top salary, you can negotiate on the basis of the amount that you want _after_ tax, and if people want you that much they will pay up. I can also say definitely that when top rates of UK income tax came down dramatically from 83% or whatever to the current 40%, there was no evidence of salaries dropping! There are definitely cases of taxpayers moving abroad to more favourable tax regimes - Noel Coward, the Rolling Stones, etc, but I don't know how widespread this is (see discussion on pp 232-233 of Kay and King, 3rd edn.). You also hear stories of people being "paid" in a crate of champagne or whatever in order to keep their money income down (strictly this is still taxable, but it's difficult to track). So, how many people here have ever said "No, I don't want to take on any more work because my marginal tax rate is so high"? - - Mike Godwin PS May I point out that one of my reasons for subscribing to this list is to _distract_ me from thinking about tax policy? n.p. I want you back, Jackson 5 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 14:29:32 +0000 (GMT) From: brian@lazerlove5.com Subject: Re: Fegmania: Not just a list, but an album! Quoting "Rex.Broome" : >The live > tracks > are totally different from what I expected-- what was the context for > those? > I swear Robyn is actually playing "Eight Miles High" at one point > during > "Egyptian Cream". From the 93' respect tour. > And another interesting thing on these tracks is that, while I've > gotten > used to Robyn getting a pretty efficient jangle out of his Telecaster, > there > seems to be some genuine 12-stringery going on here (certainly on > "Rhymney") > but the '80's guitar processing makes it really hard to tell. In > fact, > other than Groovy Gravy (where it's understandable and sort of counter > to > Robyn's will), this album sound-wise is more tied to the '80's than any > of > the rest... things were fine back on BSDR and seemed to go back to > normal on > EOL. Anyone else get this vibe? Yep. Me too. > That said, I would love to hear the Modern New Soft Boys Quartet > Experience > Boys tear into "I'm Only You", with Robyn and Kimberley ripping up > that > ending Marquee Moon-style. A much more natural SB's fit than "Man with > the > Lightbulb Head", as much fun as that was. Oh, now your just teasing me! Nuppy ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #44 *******************************