From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #436 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, December 31 2002 Volume 11 : Number 436 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Digital Hulk [steve ] Re: Digital Hulk [Steve Talkowski ] Peter Jackson is King [BLATZMAN@aol.com] movies and names [Sabina Carlson ] Re: movies and names [Steve Talkowski ] Re: movies and names [Ken Weingold ] Re: movies and names ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: movies and names [Ken Weingold ] Re: Hi Sabina [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: towers of inferno [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: movies and names [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: movies and names [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles [Fric Chaud ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #435 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles [Jeff Dwarf ] more lotr [drew ] first thoughts... [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] The Two Towers [The Great Quail ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:21:41 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Digital Hulk On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 08:12 PM, Steve Talkowski wrote: >> Are you kidding? The Hulk is going to be a CG character? > > Yup. I know a few of the folks working on it and hear good things, so > I'm going to remain optimistic and view it with an open mind. Did they say anything about the reported Hulk dogs? - - Steve __________ Does pop music really change anything other than the width of a teenager's trousers? Is there really no Santa Claus on the evening stage? Does the shed hold only a push bike, or is there a lawn mower in there too? Well, I've done the research, talked to the culprit's parents and come to my own conclusions. The answer is this: God's atoms have been scattered and re-assembled in the form of a fluffy bunny. - Bill Nelson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:41:51 -0500 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Digital Hulk On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 09:21 PM, steve wrote: > Did they say anything about the reported Hulk dogs? no comment - -steve p.s. I loved Spirited Away, though I'm gonna have to root for "Ice Age" come Oscar time. We won an Academy Award for our CG short "Bunny" in '98, here's hoping we get a nomination bid for best animated feature... p.p.s Ben Affleck as Matt Murdock? puhLEASE! p.p.p.s Funniest moment in TTT: Saruman (in his white bathrobe, no less) watching all his hard work destroyed by a flood. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:53:32 EST From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: Peter Jackson is King In a message dated 12/30/02 7:18:55 PM, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: << Oh, that's right...I remember. Apart from actually completing an incredible quest under excruciating circumstances against impossible odds, that's right on the money. >> So what... they walk through some rugged terrain, then walk somemore, then do some sneaking,, and then somemore walking... Sam cries, someone bursts into song, then they climb a mountain and their story is over. I should have been more specific to say that Frodo and Sam do very very little in Return of the King except walk around on the verge of starvation... (but there's always enough energy for one more song!). They simply needed more screen time in ROTK so it makes sense to shift story and plot so that the third film is weighted more evenly. I completely agree with Mr Jackson... << Good thing we've got Peter Jackson here to save us from Tolkien's inability to tell a story, that's for sure. >> Nice... Jackson is here to turn the Tolkien books into movies, which, in case you didn't know, would then need to be restructured cause they aren't structured for film. I am very critical of Tolkiens ability to tell a story. I was bored with the books, but the content intrigued me. I find his structure very dull... People always walking around re-capping tales they've already had. It's very passive, and I find that boring. Not to mention those horrible songs that everyone burts into every few pages. I seriously think that if a director was to film exactly what is on the page, the movies would utterly fail. If you want singing dwarves try watching the animated Hobbit. It's very painful. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:22:29 -0500 From: Sabina Carlson Subject: movies and names since we're talking about movies and very many people out there seem to be movie buffs, i want to see who can be the first one to tell me which movie my name came from (the sabina part, not the sheena part, although that does reference something else). good luck and let the brain racking begin! peace, love, unity sabina sheena ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:29:57 -0500 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: movies and names On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 11:22 PM, Sabina Carlson wrote: > i want to see who can be the first one to tell me which movie my name > came from take yer pick... Aan boord van de "Sabina" (1920) Ich heiss Sabina Spielrein (2002) Maria Sabina, mujer espiritu (1978) Sabina (1991) Sabina (1998) Sabina V'Hagvarim (1967) La Sabina (1979) El Regreso de Sabina (1980) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:42:48 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: movies and names On Mon, Dec 30, 2002, Steve Talkowski wrote: > On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 11:22 PM, Sabina Carlson wrote: > > >i want to see who can be the first one to tell me which movie my name > >came from > > take yer pick... > > Aan boord van de "Sabina" (1920) > Ich heiss Sabina Spielrein (2002) > Maria Sabina, mujer espiritu (1978) > Sabina (1991) > Sabina (1998) > Sabina V'Hagvarim (1967) > La Sabina (1979) > El Regreso de Sabina (1980) Plus, for shame, mentioning that movie Sheena in a public place. :) - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:00:34 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: movies and names >Plus, for shame, mentioning that movie Sheena in a public place. :) > > >-Ken Movie? I had always heard that Sheena was a punk rocker. Max _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:22:04 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: movies and names On Tue, Dec 31, 2002, Maximilian Lang wrote: > >Plus, for shame, mentioning that movie Sheena in a public place. :) > > > > > >-Ken > > Movie? I had always heard that Sheena was a punk rocker. Lucky you. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Hi Sabina Maximilian Lang wrote: > I think this email can cause brain aneurysms. It's not the side-effects of the cocaine..... np: PinUps, a part of my Winter Solstice CD getting Bonanza! > > Max > > >From: "Greta Swann" > >Reply-To: "Greta Swann" > >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > >Subject: Hi Sabina > >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:03:14 -0500 > > > >Hi Sabina > > > >It's like really good to hear from someone else > >in high school. But you sound > >really cool like everyone else on this list who > >has to be cool cause Robin is like obviously > >just so coolio. I've sorta been like hiding > >cause SOME people here are so cool they're MEAN > >though some of you are really nice and you know > >WHO YOU ARE(giggle.) > > > >Ive learned a whole alot about being cool here > >and its really cool cause it's helped me to be > >like cool. My new boyfriend Al (not my old > >boyfriend or my old new boyfriend or Tony who I > >didn't tell anyone about cause that one didn't > >last the weekend and usually a guy's got to > >stick round for at least three days to be your > >boyfriend but my new new boyfriend whose stuck > >around for two whole weeks!)was really impressed > >when I told him I thought Rush and Interpol and > >Scabby Knees had put out great CDs this year. I > >mean I haven't like heard them yet but there was > >no reason to tell Al that cause he was so like > >really impressed and asked me out cause he's > >been looking for a girl who like, you know, > >understands music because that means she'll > >understand HIM and I bet I'd like them if I'd I > >heard them. > > > >And since Im writing I have a question to ask as > >well as saying HI SABINA. Iw as watching TV and > >there was this really freakin weird thing on > >that I didn't want to watch but my stupid step- > >mom did so I had to sorta pay some attention > >even though it was this really stupid story > >story that didn't make any sense. There was a > >big tree that grew sideways and people had meals > >on its truck like it was a deck and there was > >this guy who was supposed to rule stuff but he > >didn't rule anything and he thought he was an > >owl and then he got eaten by owls. Everybody was > >crazy it was like Alice in Wonderland which has > >always made me feel weird and Ive always > >wondered why people liked it cause it just made > >me feel sick to my stomach. Anyway when the > >commercial came the credits said it was a movie > >based on a book called something like > >Goremeaghast but I know thats not the real title > >cause back when I was lurking I remeber a buntch > >of you talked about it and made it seem really > >cool. > > > >So why do you like it. I mean, it's like > >everybofy is insane and whats the point of a > >story where everybody is insane. I mean like why > >did Titzus like the wild girl? She was dirty and > >didn't even wear lip gloss? I bet she smelled. > > > >()s and Xs > > > >Greta > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: towers of inferno BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > I have minor thoughts about his artistic choices, but he's sure > delivered a wonderfully entertaining piece of cinema. Which is more > than I can say for the books. I hated them. Why go see movies based on books you hated? I can see if you only found them disappointing but .... It's your money though. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:00:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Quoting Greta Swann : > > > So Eb, you're too cool to believe in me? Well, > > I don't believe in you back! I think you're > > just a parody of some snotty rock critic who > > thinks its really really cool to be mean. So > > there. > > That's an intriguing theory... > > But how do you know it's not true of *all* rock critics? > > I mean, c'mon - who's ever actually *met* anyone who'd admit to being > a rock critic? Whereas, regardless of whether Greta is who she says she is or not, there are thousands of middle aged men pretending to be teenage girls online everywhere, albeit most of them tying to other middle aged men pretending to be teenage boys inside porno chatrooms. I do think it's kinda unnecessarily to accuse her of faking it one or the other though. I mean, do we really _know_ James is in New Zealand? I don't recall anyone challenging him on that. Of course, I'm the only lying about being a Dwarf, so maybe I should just shut the fuck up. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:08:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: movies and names Steve Talkowski wrote: > On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 11:22 PM, Sabina Carlson wrote: > > i want to see who can be the first one to tell me which movie my > > name came from > > take yer pick... > > Aan boord van de "Sabina" (1920) > Ich heiss Sabina Spielrein (2002) > Maria Sabina, mujer espiritu (1978) > Sabina (1991) > Sabina (1998) > Sabina V'Hagvarim (1967) > La Sabina (1979) > El Regreso de Sabina (1980) I thought it was a 50's romantic comedy starring Audey Hepbun. Either that or "Howard the Duck." ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: movies and names Maximilian Lang wrote: > >Plus, for shame, mentioning that movie Sheena in a public place. :) > > Movie? I had always heard that Sheena was a punk rocker. No, she's that singer who started out all virginal until she started hanging out with Prince, then sang about her "Sugar Walls" and upset Tipper Gore. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:22:30 -0500 From: Fric Chaud Subject: Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles On 30 Dec 2002 at 22:00, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > Whereas, regardless of whether Greta is who she says she is or not, > there are thousands of middle aged men pretending to be teenage girls > online everywhere, albeit most of them tying to other middle aged men > pretending to be teenage boys inside porno chatrooms. I do think it's > kinda unnecessarily to accuse her of faking it one or the other > though. OK, Greta is Jeff. Jeff, please develop your character to make her more interesting, Greta seems to be the product of a parody generator programme. - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:36:14 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #435 >As someone who has read the books a couple times over the years I really >liked the movie I liked a lot better than first one but the same could >be said for the books as well. Oh it could, could it? Feggish as a second language is taking off, I see! >If we have already an adolescent to announce, why do we need a >impersonator of same thing? So now you can stop, "Greta". on the internet, anyone could be anyone. Greta's as likely to be kosher as anyone here. I'd like to think she is. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. >I scored on the birthday front. December 11th, 1968. The day of the Rolling >Stones' Rock & Roll Circus, not to mention 11th anniversary of Jerry Lee >Lewis marrying his cousin, and 4th anniversary of Sam Cooke's murder. no-one I think is is my birthdaysharing (May 30). I'm only a day off Gary Brooker's and John Bonham's (and JFK's, too), ISTR (and FWIW). James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles Fric Chaud wrote: > On 30 Dec 2002 at 22:00, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > > Whereas, regardless of whether Greta is who she says she is or not, > > there are thousands of middle aged men pretending to be teenage > girls > > online everywhere, albeit most of them tying to other middle aged > men > > pretending to be teenage boys inside porno chatrooms. I do think > it's > > kinda unnecessarily to accuse her of faking it one or the other > > though. > > OK, Greta is Jeff. Jeff, please develop your character to make her > more interesting, Greta seems to be the product of a parody > generator programme. Pot. Kettle. Black. ===== "Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in very nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies." -- F.M. Cornford "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:08:39 -0800 (PST) From: drew Subject: more lotr > From: BLATZMAN@aol.com > I am familiar with the books and I think Jackson > has improved upon them tenfold. They are not cinematic at all, and > structurally they make for lousy films. Well, duh...they're *books*. I think they're actually a little more cinematic than you do, but it's hardly an "improvement" to translate them to a totally different genre. > << It's too bad Astin's not a better Sam; his performance is almost > totally without nuance, and I don't think we can totally blame > Jackson there. >> > > but you can and should blame Jackson! He hired Astin for the job!!! Yeah, and he directed him in the part. So I do blame Jackson. But I also blame Astin. > I'd > like to point out that you seem to have a reverence for the text, yet if you > notice, Sam is not a nuanced character in the books. He's actually a lame > brained cry baby. He's not a Brother Karamazov, I'll grant you, but he's a more interesting character in the books than he is in the film. In neither, fortunately, is he "a lame brained cry baby," but who am I to argue with your sensitive analysis? > << Those two should really be the heart of the movie and I'm afraid they > just can't carry it. >> > > How can you say that??? They aren't the heart of the books! Here again we just have to disagree. They're the emotional center of a story that's epic in scale. They don't have to "do" much for this to be the case. > I have minor thoughts about his artistic choices, but he's sure delivered a > wonderfully entertaining piece of cinema. Which is more than I can say for > the books. I hated them. I felt that way for a long time until I reread them. I'm much happier about them now; I think there's a purity and dignity about them that's absent from a lot of more recent swords-and-sorcery nonsense. Though I will admit that the films are what renewed my interest in the books, and as imperfect as I find the films, I never in a million years would have expected them to be as faithful and visually *right* as they are. > From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" > > I really liked the song "Dance Hall Days". *awkward silence* > From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) > [another worst film] > 16. The Avengers Oh yes, that's right. > And Robyn would've been good in the 60s series > "The Prisoner", if he'd been old enough. This on the other hand I am completely incapable of imagining. I can't see him as a "rock troubadour" in *anything*, either, and I think I would be deeply mortified were he to appear in such a capacity. I guess I was born without whatever gene leads fans to imagine these things. > From: Steve Talkowski > > I didn't mean it as an insult - think Conan O'Brien taking jabs at all > the Star Wars/LOTR/Star Trek "geeks" in his funny monologues. (anyone > remember the hilarious segment where Triumph interviews all the AOTC > fans in full garb waiting out front of the Zeigfeld theatre?) Yeah, the Triumph thing was pretty funny, but it was also cheap shot city. I'm not a hardcore fanboy of anything, really, but it's a there-but-for-the-grace-of-no-god thing and I can't really warm to that sort of humor when there are bigger fish to fry. [the Hulk as a CG character] > > Christ, that sounds shit. > > Wait - shit as in "the shit", i.e. good, or shit as in "a piece of..."? > Ya lost me there... As in "a piece of...". Granted, I've been skeptical of the film since I first heard about it, and there is only one Ang Lee film I've actually liked (hint: NOT "Eat Drink Man Woman"), so I may be prejudiced. Then again, I don't really care about the Hulk one way or the other, so at least I don't have any hopes to dash. Spirited Away ruled. Can't wait for the DVD and the rest of the manga. - -- drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/~drew/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:55:21 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: first thoughts... My first impressions of 2003 seem fairly favourable. It's warm (about 20C/68F, not bad for quarter to one in the morning), and the sky is brilliantly clear, with Orion riding high (if upside-down). I've had an evilly delightful toast or three of half butterscotch schnapps and half drambuie (delicious and very dangerous) with friends that I haven't seen in over six months, and the fireworks display I've just seen was excellent. Hope this year continues as well as it's started here. Or, to put it another way, I hope the next twelve months are excellent. How's 2002 looking back there? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:06:22 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: The Two Towers Wow, some of you folks are really being hard on this film! Heh. Well, I loved it, and I have read the books numerous times, including one more round this year. The only real criticism I have is directed towards some of the speechifying near the end; it seems a bit nine-eleveny for my tastes. Oh, and having just seen the AMAZING extended version of "Fellowship," I felt somewhat like I was seeing a rough draft of the "final" cut, which is sure to have another half-hour of character development. But I blame that on the studios and basic theater economics; it's obvious that in the long run, Peter "Wagner" Jackson wants a complete, 11+ hour work, not a trio of 3-hour movies. A few of my opinions regarding the dread alterations (mild spoilers ensue): First of all, I think Jackson *had* to make some changes. As a few Fegs have pointed out, the books are not always cinematically friendly, and by the time "The Return of the King" rolls around, Tolkien's writing style has undergone a radical shift, moving from an avuncular but elaborate storytelling mode to an impersonal, deliberately antiquated "epic" mode. In fact, Jackson had *better* change the "style" of presentation for the last movie, as Tolkien's heroic mode won't serve very well with cinematic characters. Which is the main point, to me, where Jackson succeeds brilliantly: he makes the characters come alive -- they breathe, they have a full range of emotions, they seem real despite the fantastic setting. And I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that, yes, Jackson's characters are in some ways more developed than Tolkien's! Now, at first I was a bit peeved that Aragorn was younger than I expected, that Samwise was more a simple-minded buddy than a servant, and that Elrond was "harder." (Ah, Hugo Weaving! I can see him with two folders: STRIDER and ELESSAR. "Mr. Aragorn: one of these has a future. One of them does not.") But after really *understanding* the films, I began to "get" Jackson's interpretation. Tolkien paints his characters with very broad strokes, his tale draws power from archetypes, not complex characterization. This is not a negative criticism, not does it imply that you don't *care* or even *love* the characters; actually, Tolkien invests these symbols and archetypes with more personality than usually found in myth and legend. But still, as with all epic or classical literature, the reader gains access to the characters through their words and actions rather than internal thoughts, and there is much leeway for personal interpretation. And I accept Jackson's interpretation as valid and, well, wonderful. It does not always agree with mine -- hell, I still imagine Aragorn more like Ralph Bakshi's rougher, animated ranger; Samwise will always be older and more fuddling; and my Elrond is David Bowie; but for $10 I am more than happy to see The Lord of the Rings through my fellow enthusiast's loving eye. And I feel rewarded -- in fact, now I really dig Jackson's heroic Aragorn, and some of his characters are just incredible: Gandalf was a revelation, Boromir went from my least favorite Fellowship character in the book to my most favorite in the film, and his Gollum is utterly remarkable -- with all due respect to the CGI artistry; it's the *character* I fell in love with. Jackson put aside the more common "Gollum as Frog" take and focused on Smiagol as a pathetic *person* destroyed by his weakness for the Ring, and in the end you see a truly wretched, pitiful creature, but a person, not a monster: a sad, broken, tortured, schizophrenic, 500-year old junkie. To me, that one brilliant stroke would be worth a dozen miscues. (Not that I think Jackson misfires all that much: Eowyn, Thioden, and Grmma all pleased me greatly.) (PS: Damn, there must be a Tolkien fan at Microsoft: my Entourage spell-checker has suggested the correct spellings for both Smiagol and Thioden!) And I thought Faramir was just fine: a true brother to Boromir, and utterly believable as a young captain of Gondor. So what about the plot changes? Well, some I liked, some I didn't care one way or another, and some I was uncomfortable with. Aragorn falling off a cliff? Faramir taking the hobbits to Osgiliath? The Elves appearing at Helm's Deep? Well, frankly, I didn't care if they were all changes from the book! In fact, I sat next to a couple who had never read the books -- a very "typical" movie-going pair, not geeks at all -- and I was amused to overhear them. They were really fascinated by Aragorn, and were actually quite upset when they thought he had died! To me, it's additional drama that *works.* The Aragorn subplot adds some tension, and the Osgiliath detour allows more "play" with the Frodo plot-line, as well as helping to better establish the geography and history of Gondor. I do confess I was less cavalier about the meeting between Gandalf and Thioden -- I agree with Kay, it was too simple to have Thioden's condition the result of pure magic, though I understood it as plot device. But the arguments between "Gollum" and "Smiagol," those I thought were remarkably well done, and happily expanded from the source material. Jackson cast Gollum/Smiagol as a schizophrenic, as a creature with multiple personality disorder. While he certainly had his own take on it, the book *does* support this -- in fact, there is a scene where Gollum argues with himself, and Tolkien indicates that his basic personality flows back and forth between two aspects: even his eyes glow when he's being "Gollum." So here's a case where Jackson and his team saw something in the book that they expanded on film -- to me, a perfectly acceptable act of interpretation. I also like the romance between Arwen and Aragorn -- another welcome case of expanded source material. (And that couple next to me liked it too. In fact, the woman was quite upset when it seemed Aragorn was making googly-eyes ate Eowyn.) In fact, some of these changes -- in both films -- are part of what brought them to life for me. I can't help comparing them to the Harry Potter movies, which are somewhat stifled by their adherence to the source material. (Except, of course, in the "Chamber of Secrets," where Columbus throws away Rowling's more subtle closure for a Hollywood finale.) Some wonderful actors and sets in those Potter movies, true: but that's all they seem, wonderful actors and sets, rather than wonderful characters and places. So anyway, while I do have some critiques about the cheesier, peachier moments of "The Two Towers," I still think it was a great film, and Jackson's achievement a remarkable one. Though not definitive: no interpretation of Tolkien can be definitive, The Lord of the Rings is simply too mythologically-based and too openly written. Which is, of course, a strength. Oh, and did I mention those fucking fight scenes?!? - --Quail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.TheModernWord.com "All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event -- in the living act, the undoubted deed -- there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall?" --Herman Melville, "Moby Dick" ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #436 ********************************