From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #435 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, December 30 2002 Volume 11 : Number 435 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Hi Sabina ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: the two towers [Miles Goosens ] towers of inferno [BLATZMAN@aol.com] RE: the two towers ["Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)" ] Re: Hi Sabina [Fric Chaud ] Re: Since Xianmas is over... [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Oh, and one more birth story... ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a point] Re: the two towers ["Michael Wells" ] Re: best and worst movies. [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Oh, and one more birth story... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: the two towers (FX, etc.) [steve ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 18:17:17 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Hi Sabina I think this email can cause brain aneurysms. Max >From: "Greta Swann" >Reply-To: "Greta Swann" >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Hi Sabina >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:03:14 -0500 > >Hi Sabina > >It's like really good to hear from someone else >in high school. But you sound >really cool like everyone else on this list who >has to be cool cause Robin is like obviously >just so coolio. I've sorta been like hiding >cause SOME people here are so cool they're MEAN >though some of you are really nice and you know >WHO YOU ARE(giggle.) > >Ive learned a whole alot about being cool here >and its really cool cause it's helped me to be >like cool. My new boyfriend Al (not my old >boyfriend or my old new boyfriend or Tony who I >didn't tell anyone about cause that one didn't >last the weekend and usually a guy's got to >stick round for at least three days to be your >boyfriend but my new new boyfriend whose stuck >around for two whole weeks!)was really impressed >when I told him I thought Rush and Interpol and >Scabby Knees had put out great CDs this year. I >mean I haven't like heard them yet but there was >no reason to tell Al that cause he was so like >really impressed and asked me out cause he's >been looking for a girl who like, you know, >understands music because that means she'll >understand HIM and I bet I'd like them if I'd I >heard them. > >And since Im writing I have a question to ask as >well as saying HI SABINA. Iw as watching TV and >there was this really freakin weird thing on >that I didn't want to watch but my stupid step- >mom did so I had to sorta pay some attention >even though it was this really stupid story >story that didn't make any sense. There was a >big tree that grew sideways and people had meals >on its truck like it was a deck and there was >this guy who was supposed to rule stuff but he >didn't rule anything and he thought he was an >owl and then he got eaten by owls. Everybody was >crazy it was like Alice in Wonderland which has >always made me feel weird and Ive always >wondered why people liked it cause it just made >me feel sick to my stomach. Anyway when the >commercial came the credits said it was a movie >based on a book called something like >Goremeaghast but I know thats not the real title >cause back when I was lurking I remeber a buntch >of you talked about it and made it seem really >cool. > >So why do you like it. I mean, it's like >everybofy is insane and whats the point of a >story where everybody is insane. I mean like why >did Titzus like the wild girl? She was dirty and >didn't even wear lip gloss? I bet she smelled. > >()s and Xs > >Greta _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:36:40 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: the two towers At 05:27 PM 12/30/2002 -0500, Steve Talkowski wrote: >I haven't read any of the books, so my take is somewhat different - i >was hanging on every scene waiting to see how the story unfolds. I saw >it with a fellow CG animator (who read the books) and he wasn't as >disappointed as some of you hard-core Tolkien geeks about what was and >what wasn't left in or out. The three hours passed quickly and I was >totally prepared for the next three... I thought this might be the case for folks who haven't read the books. My rebuttal is that the first film did an admirable job of serving both the core constituency of people who read (and liked) the books *and* the larger, general movie-going audience. The second film probably does just as good of a job at the latter while adding many gratuitous changes that, added together, become a major turn-off for the former audience. For these purposes, I'll define "gratuitous changes" as changes that neither make the story and characters more explicable *nor* buy the director time. For instance, as much as I hated to lose the Old Forest-Bombadil-Barrow Downs segment in FELLOWSHIP, taking the Hobbits straight from the Shire to Bree gained Jackson at least 30 minutes to do other things more crucial to the narrative. But the changes in THE TWO TOWERS, with a few exceptions (the Arwen dream sequences probably making the choices of the Elves and the Arwen-Aragorn-Eowyn triangle more explicable; Gollum's "discussions" with Smeagol), don't really help advance the plot, buy time (in fact, I'd argue that adding business like, um, that fall off a cliff actually *added* time), or provide significant characterization. Seemed like there was straightforward and *superior* drama to be had by sticking by the book, making these changes all the more jarring and inexplicable. And I think for what it's worth, that "you hard-core Tolkien geeks" cuts a pretty broad swath. Me, I've read the books and like them, but it's hardly like they dominated my life. I didn't feel the need to learn Elvish, finish THE SIMARILLION, or write music for the songs in the books, and I've gone for good long stretches of my life without thinking about THE LORD OF THE RINGS at all. But if I dare complain that sticking to the books more closely would have provided a superior entertainment, sheesh, then I'm just one of those nutcases who dresses as Gimli at conventions, and of course no mere movie would ever satisfy my ridiculously high standards of literary faithfulness... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 18:55:19 EST From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: towers of inferno In a message dated 12/30/02 3:15:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: << The sad part is that if you're not familiar with the books (I've only ever read them once, but I'm rereading each one before I see the film, and I like them much better this time around), you might never realize how much potential was lost. >> Ahhhhh.... you can't please everyone... I'm just happy that Jackson isn't trying to please everyone. I am familiar with the books and I think Jackson has improved upon them tenfold. They are not cinematic at all, and structurally they make for lousy films. Jackson has pulled it all together in a way that actually works, and has managed to put a great deal of his spin on it. I also find the score to be over the top (as well as some of the acting), but I guess in the end I put all my complaints aside because this is an astonishing achievement. I know that's not even up for debate, but I think the films are as good as they could ever be. That's how happy I am with them... << It's too bad Astin's not a better Sam; his performance is almost totally without nuance, and I don't think we can totally blame Jackson there. >> but you can and should blame Jackson! He hired Astin for the job!!! I'd like to point out that you seem to have a reverence for the text, yet if you notice, Sam is not a nuanced character in the books. He's actually a lame brained cry baby. If you took his film-character out of the books, he'd be literally bursting into tears every other scene, and singing stupid songs the rest of the time. Frodo is a pretty one-note character in the books too... << Those two should really be the heart of the movie and I'm afraid they just can't carry it. >> How can you say that??? They aren't the heart of the books! Why should they be the heart of the movies! They hardly do anything at all in the last book, (notice the title is Return of the King... ) I think this is just the impressions that you're left with from reading the books as a child, but when I re-read them recently I was shocked to see how little there is for Sam and Frodo to do after the Fellowship splits. Cinematically, I can see why Jackson has re-structured the last two films... I have minor thoughts about his artistic choices, but he's sure delivered a wonderfully entertaining piece of cinema. Which is more than I can say for the books. I hated them. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:06:07 -0800 From: "Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)" Subject: RE: the two towers > I thought this might be the case for folks who haven't read the books. My > rebuttal is that the first film did an admirable job of serving both the > core constituency of people who read (and liked) the books *and* the > larger, general movie-going audience. The second film probably does just > as good of a job at the latter while adding many gratuitous changes that, > added together, become a major turn-off for the former audience. As someone who has read the books a couple times over the years I really liked the movie I liked a lot better than first one but the same could be said for the books as well. All of the changes worked for me and made it a better film than a more literal adaptation of the book would have been. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 18:07:46 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: A Cricket Question August 2002: The British Observer Sport Magazine does a thorough workup on sex and sports performance, and surveys some of the great athletes, past and present. Former cricket player Simon Hughes: "I'd say pre-match sex helped more than it hindered. I took six wickets and bowled out Zimbabwe to win a match for Middlesex the night after a dalliance with a Harare hairdresser, and enjoyed similar success during a four-day fling with a Birmingham nurse." (courtesy of http://espn.go.com/page2/s/sexsports/2002.html) Would this have been the famous Third Test against Harare? :-p Michael "and the Chesterfield is out leg before wicket" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:25:01 -0500 From: Fric Chaud Subject: Re: Hi Sabina If we have already an adolescent to announce, why do we need a impersonator of same thing? So now you can stop, "Greta". Also, welcome at Sabina, a real young fegmaniac. - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:26:56 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Since Xianmas is over... - -- Enriched Macaroni Product is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 30. Dezember 2002 13:19 Uhr -0800 regarding Since Xianmas is over...: > ...it must be time for year-end lists. so here are my 25 favourite > movies of the last 25 years. > > 1. My Life As A Dog Isn't that one great? Haven't seen it in a while, though. > 10. Jesus Of Montreal I like all of Denys Arcand's movies and actually I'd pick The Decline of the American Empire as my favorite. > 16. A River Runs Through It That's the one movie in your list that I now and *don't* like. It just didn't do anything for me. - -- Miles Goosens is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 30. Dezember 2002 15:41 Uhr -0600 regarding Re: Since Xianmas is over...: > At 01:19 PM 12/30/2002 -0800, Enriched Macaroni Product wrote: > >...it must be time for year-end lists. so here are my 25 favourite > movies >of the last 25 years. > > I love or at least like every movie I've seen from Eddie's "favourites" > list (which I think is about 2/3 of them), with the exception of > SCHINDLER'S LIST, but I'm not getting into that again. > > On the other hand, Eddie's "worst" list contains: a movie that looks so > gorgeous that I really didn't care about the indifferent script (SLEEPY > HOLLOW), Right, I felt the same way. > a damn fun John Woo flick that gives us the spectacle of Nic Cage > doing a dead-on Revolta imitation (FACE/OFF), Again, I agree. Guten Rutsch ins neue Jahr! - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:32:07 -0800 (PST) From: drew Subject: wineglasses I think I've already said more about my formative music than anyone here ever wanted to know, but in short: it was Simon & Garfunkel and the Mamas & the Papas, thanks to my parents, and then the new wave music of 82 - 84, thanks to me. The first pop 45s I owned were Pac-Man Fever and Mr. Roboto, and the first full-length cassette was the Bangles' Different Light, followed shortly by an RCA record club selection that included Then and Now...the Best of the Monkees and that singles collection the Police put out. Speaking of Gormenghast, I got a little further in the second book over vacation. I'm still kinda lukewarm on it, but I'm going to force myself through it sooner or later. Eddie's lists: I really disliked The Unbearable Movie with that Daniel Day-Lewis Creep, but I have no objections to the other four movies I've seen from the best-of list. As for the 15 worst, I think Sleepy Hollow's badness seems more dire because it was such a disappointment; if you can pretend Tim Burton never made a good movie it has its virtues. Forrest Gump was a pile of fetid shit, Miles, I'm sorry. I did like The Truman Show, I'm afraid, and liked but did not love The Sixth Sense. Return of the Jedi is a religious argument, but I liked it just fine when I was 10 and don't have a big problem with it even now. The Blair Witch Project did scare me so I couldn't argue that it was a bad movie if I wanted to. I would, of course, have included American Beauty on the "worst" list, as well as two or three (at least) of the Star Trek films, a couple of Gregg Araki movies, Shrek, The Road to El Dorado, and -- just guessing, because I haven't yet dared to watch it, but the soundtrack was AWFUL -- Moulin Rouge. > From: Steve Talkowski > > (of course, ILM will have their chance for > rebuttal when "The HULK" hits screens next summer) Are you kidding? The Hulk is going to be a CG character? Christ, that sounds shit. - -- drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/~drew/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:12:41 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: I Dont Believe in Beatles Quoting Greta Swann : > So Eb, you're too cool to believe in me? Well, > I don't believe in you back! I think you're > just a parody of some snotty rock critic who > thinks its really really cool to be mean. So > there. That's an intriguing theory... But how do you know it's not true of *all* rock critics? I mean, c'mon - who's ever actually *met* anyone who'd admit to being a rock critic? ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: it's not your meat :: --Mr. Toad np: Spoon _Kill the Moonlight_ - cooler than a frozen daiquiri wearing dark shades, so there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:07:39 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Oh, and one more birth story... At 11:26 AM -0800 12/27/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "Rex.Broome" and whispered: >Drew: >>>The other was the much-loved "Talons of Weng-Chiang," I really liked the song "Dance Hall Days". >-Rex, who also just found out that Ridley shares a birthday with Billy >Bragg, Mike Watt (for Eb) and Ed Kuepper (for James) I scored on the birthday front. December 11th, 1968. The day of the Rolling Stones' Rock & Roll Circus, not to mention 11th anniversary of Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his cousin, and 4th anniversary of Sam Cooke's murder. At 9:33 PM -0500 12/27/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "Jill Brand" and whispered: >I went to see the Two Towers [snip] > Kay, you said that you thought of Hi Ho Silver when Gandalf >appeared on his steed. Did you have any desire to sing "oh-ee-oh >ee-ohhhhh um" (from the Wizard of Oz) during the last battle? Funny, The Three Hours^h^h^h^h^h^hTwo Towers had a lot of moments that reminded me of other movies as well... Like the scene in the forest where it turns out that Obi Wan is still alive after being "killed" by the Balrog in the last movie, or when Treebeard is carrying Merry and Pippin north out of the forest and they're talking about returning home to Tatooine. And is it just me, or is Aragorn Han Solo and Legolas Princess Leia? I just can't figure out if Gollum is Jar-Jar or Yoda. At 12:58 AM -0600 12/28/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" and whispered: >Quoting "Rex.Broome" : >> -Rex, who also just found out that Ridley shares a birthday with Billy >> Bragg, Mike Watt (for Eb) and Ed Kuepper (for James) > >Plus Patti Smith, Peter Criss, Kiefer Sutherland, and Dr. Mudd (of >ministering to John Wilkes Booth fame). And Uri Geller. > >Uh, and Alan Parsons. Wow, Billy Bragg, Mike Watt, Patti Smith, Peter Criss and Alan Parsons (worthy of inclusion for Dark Side, if nothing else) all on one day? Ridley's full house beats my three-of-a-kind. At 6:50 PM +0000 12/28/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else is around called themselves "Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" and whispered: >Let me once again throw into the name game that in the Northeastern US >upper-middle and upper classes, using family names as middle(required, >usually mom's maiden name) and first(encouraged but not manditory)names is >a >class marker. I worked with a girl who was dating a guy named Sturdevant Tyce Burr ("Ty" for short). When she told me that, she said, "He's SuperWASP!". Although for my money, my other coworker's boyfriend, Chas Hartwick, had the waspiest name. Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") "Moderation in all things, except Wild Turkey." - Evel Knievel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:28:54 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: the two towers Steve: > From an FX standpoint, I'm often jaded since I've been doing this type > of work for 15 years now. However, Gollum was an order of magnitude > better than ILM's Yoda (of course, ILM will have their chance for > rebuttal when "The HULK" hits screens next summer) and I totally bought > into the performance - especially so when Gollum/Smeagol is > experiencing his inner turmoil. I was interested to hear what someone in the field thought of that, thanks. I thought he was exceptionally well-rendered, if mostly for me from an activity-based viewpoint. He seemed to move like he should move, if that makes sense, and across all sorts of terrain it looked completely natural to me. Gollum was definitely a highlight. Miles: > The second film probably does just > as good of a job at the latter while adding many gratuitous changes that, > added together, become a major turn-off for the former audience. > > For these purposes, I'll define "gratuitous changes" as changes that > neither make the story and characters more explicable *nor* buy the > director time. I think my original post on this was more vitriolic, but that's it in a nutshell. The "Aragorn-over-a-cliff-baptism" thing was farcical at best, but was an addition that didn't seem that painful at the time apart from taking precious minutes away from doing things *that really were in the book* instead. Bugger. However, rerouting Frodo out of Ithilien back towards Minas Tirith (at Faramir's orders!) is downright criminal. The only purpose I can see to this is to set up a close call at Osgiliath and to put on Faramir's change of mind in a more *dramatic* setting. Bugger all. The above example aside, I think most of the 'gratuitous changes' can be accepted because they're being used to compress time or attempts to add little details that would have been otherwise lost...but the rerouting is not only NOT in the books (and it meets both definitions of "gratuitous" Miles already identified) but it is an actual detractive CHANGE to the story structure and characters. Don't fuck with Faramir. Dave: > How can you say that??? They aren't the heart of the books! Why should they > be the heart of the movies! They hardly do anything at all in the last book, > (notice the title is Return of the King... ) I think this is just the > impressions that you're left with from reading the books as a child, but when > I re-read them recently I was shocked to see how little there is for Sam and > Frodo to do after the Fellowship splits. Oh, that's right...I remember. Apart from actually completing an incredible quest under excruciating circumstances against impossible odds, that's right on the money. > Cinematically, I can see why > Jackson has re-structured the last two films... Good thing we've got Peter Jackson here to save us from Tolkien's inability to tell a story, that's for sure. Michael "I give it 1.5 towers out of 2" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:31:17 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: best and worst movies. > >...it must be time for year-end lists. so here are my 25 favourite movies > >of the last 25 years. > >I love or at least like every movie I've seen from Eddie's "favourites" >list (which I think is about 2/3 of them), with the exception of >SCHINDLER'S LIST, but I'm not getting into that again. Don't now whether I could sit down and work out a list of the 25 best movies of the last quarter century. But, fwiw, the best new-ish movies I've seen recently are "Frida" and "Sunshine". Frida I watched with a Kahloholic who filled me in on most of the details of her life that the movie missed out later. Sunshine is just plain excellent. Then again, I've avoided the crowds (and spoilers) and haven't seen The two towers yet. From the little I've read of the spoilers it sounds like a pass mark, but more of a B+ than an A+. >and the 15 worst (that i saw). the ones i couldn't finish might have ranked >even lower had i kept watching. 16. The Avengers 17. The wild wild west. When will they finally realise that making Hollywood-style blockbusters of quirky cult 60s or 70s TV series ALMOST NEVER WORKS!? What next - "Kung fu"? "The Man from UNCLE"? (Don't answer that, I know - "Starsky and Hutch" is in production. Sigh.) FWIW, I liked Men in Black. And Robyn would've been good in the 60s series "The Prisoner", if he'd been old enough. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:03:03 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Oh, and one more birth story... Quoting "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" : > At 9:33 PM -0500 12/27/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else > is > around called themselves "Jill Brand" and whispered: > >I went to see the Two Towers > [snip] > > Kay, you said that you thought of Hi Ho Silver when Gandalf > >appeared on his steed. Did you have any desire to sing "oh-ee-oh > >ee-ohhhhh um" (from the Wizard of Oz) during the last battle? > > Funny, The Three Hours^h^h^h^h^h^hTwo Towers had a lot of moments that > reminded me of other movies as well... Like the scene in the forest > where > it turns out that Obi Wan is still alive after being "killed" by the > Balrog > in the last movie, or when Treebeard is carrying Merry and Pippin north > out > of the forest and they're talking about returning home to Tatooine. And > is > it just me, or is Aragorn Han Solo and Legolas Princess Leia? > > I just can't figure out if Gollum is Jar-Jar or Yoda. You do realize that the influence - or copying - runs the other way 'round, of course? > At 12:58 AM -0600 12/28/02, those funny voices I hear when no one else > is > around called themselves "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" and whispered: > >Quoting "Rex.Broome" : > >> -Rex, who also just found out that Ridley shares a birthday with > Billy > >> Bragg, Mike Watt (for Eb) and Ed Kuepper (for James) > > > >Plus Patti Smith, Peter Criss, Kiefer Sutherland, and Dr. Mudd (of > >ministering to John Wilkes Booth fame). And Uri Geller. > > > >Uh, and Alan Parsons. > > Wow, Billy Bragg, Mike Watt, Patti Smith, Peter Criss and Alan Parsons > (worthy of inclusion for Dark Side, if nothing else) all on one day? > Ridley's full house beats my three-of-a-kind. I should clarify: all of those folks were born on 12/20 - but only Watt and Bragg were born in the same year (1957), so far as I know. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism np: Absolutely Kosher Records 2003 sampler (free!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:12:29 -0500 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: the two towers On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 06:36 PM, Miles Goosens wrote: > And I think for what it's worth, that "you hard-core Tolkien geeks" > cuts a pretty broad swath. I didn't mean it as an insult - think Conan O'Brien taking jabs at all the Star Wars/LOTR/Star Trek "geeks" in his funny monologues. (anyone remember the hilarious segment where Triumph interviews all the AOTC fans in full garb waiting out front of the Zeigfeld theatre?) (fourth clip down) > But if I dare complain that sticking to the books more closely would > have provided a superior entertainment, sheesh, then I'm just one of > those nutcases who dresses as Gimli at conventions, and of course no > mere movie would ever satisfy my ridiculously high standards of > literary faithfulness... Hey, I fit into the Spiderman category - having read the books obsessively (it's how I got interested in drawing and then transitioned to serious figure painting/drawing), I had very high expectations that they remain faithful to Stan and Steve's original concepts. I was able to accept the organic web-shooters and even the replacement of Gwen Stacey (Peter's FIRST true love, whose death causes the big showdown between Spidey and Gobby) for Mary Jane Watson. The mecha Green Goblin with the perpetual grin, however, just didn't live up to its potential. drew wrote: > Are you kidding? The Hulk is going to be a CG character? Yup. I know a few of the folks working on it and hear good things, so I'm going to remain optimistic and view it with an open mind. > Christ, that sounds shit. Wait - shit as in "the shit", i.e. good, or shit as in "a piece of..."? Ya lost me there... - -steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:17:20 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: the two towers (FX, etc.) On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 04:27 PM, Steve Talkowski wrote: > From an FX standpoint, I'm often jaded since I've been doing this type > of work for 15 years now. However, Gollum was an order of magnitude > better than ILM's Yoda (of course, ILM will have their chance for > rebuttal when "The HULK" hits screens next summer) and I totally > bought into the performance - especially so when Gollum/Smeagol is > experiencing his inner turmoil. Don't forget the Matrix movies. The effects guys say (in the Newsweek article) that they're looking to raise the bar quite a bit, although I'm not sure if they have a character that's quite the analog of Yoda or Gollum. And in other movie news, critics rank Spirited Away -  Dave Kehr, New York Times: #1  Kenneth Turan, Los Angeles Times: Tied for #1  Jack Mathews, New York Daily News: #1  Lawrence Toppman, Charlotte Observer: #1  Gene Seymour, Newsday: #1  Ty Burr, Boston Globe: #2  Jan Stuart, Newsday: #2  Curt Holman, Creative Loafing Atlanta: #2  David Ansen, Newsweek: #3  Mark Caro, Chicago Tribune: #3  Anne Thompson, Premiere Magazine: #3  Lou Lumenick, New York Post: #3  Craigh Outhier, Orange County Register: #4  Todd Anthony, Florida Sun-Sentinel: #4  Lisa Schwarzbaum, Entertainment Weekly: #5  Ed Gonzalez, Slant Magazine: #5  Elvis Mitchell, New York Times: #6  A.O. Scott, New York Times: #6  Jami Bernard, New York Daily News: #6  Andrew Johnson, US Magazine: #6  Ray Pride, Movie City News: #7  Roger Ebert, Chicago Sun-Times: #8  Richard Corliss, Time Magazine: #8  Andrew O'Hehir, Salon.com: #8  Wesley Morris, Boston Globe: #9  Claudia Puig, USA Today: #10  Stephen Schaefer, Boston Herald: Tied for #10 Non-numbered Lists  People Magazine: Best Movies of 2002  Joe Morgenstern, Wall Street Journal  Steven Rea, Philadelphia Inquirer  Carrie Rickey, Philadelphia Inquirer  Mike Prevatt, Las Vegas Mercury  Adam Nayman, Eye Magazine  David Bordwell, Artforum  John Powers, LA Weekly  Father Geek, Ain't It Cool News  Peter Brunette, indieWIRE - - Steve __________ There is no precedent in any modern White House for what is going on in this one: a complete lack of a policy apparatus.  What you've got is everythingand I mean everythingbeing run by the political arm. It's the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. - John DiIulio, 2002 ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #435 ********************************