From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #421 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, December 13 2002 Volume 11 : Number 421 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: News of probable interest ["Bachman, Michael" ] 100% Dolph content -- ch-ch-ch-ch-changes [Dolph Chaney ] Re: GT [Marcy Tanter ] concerts of the year ["Marc Holden" ] Squirrls ate my post ["Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" ] shine on you crazy diarist [rtaylor@dlalaw.com] and another thing... [Caroline Smith ] Re: poking my head in the door to say hello... ["Eugene Hopstetter, Jr."] diary: so...? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Where They Post Antique E-Mails ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails [Miles Goosens ] Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails [Miles Goosens ] Re: Where They Sell Antique Time Signatures [grutness@surf4nix.com (James] Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:11:01 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: News of probable interest >>Jetset is proud to announce the release of the new Go-Betweens album, >>"Bright Yellow,Bright Orange" on Feb 18th 2003. In 2000, the critically >>acclaimed "The Friends of Rachel Worth" marked the first time in history a >>rock band ever reformed after a decade to produce an album that their public >>loved as much or more as their early work. Robert Forster describes the >>shimmering "Bright Yellow, Bright Orange" as "Our Forever Changes or After >>the Goldrush". Eb wrote: >Huh! I wouldn't have necessarily expected a *second* reunion album. >(Anyone wanna come up with an example to counter his "first time in >history" claim? I thought at least one of the reunited Buzzcocks >albums, All Set, was about as good as the original stuff, but I guess >most others didn't agree....) The Allman Brothers second comeback from 1990 is better than their first comeback from 1979-81. I would put the 1990's Allmans as a better band than the 1972-76 band that was without Duane Allman and Berry Oakley. The 1969-71 Allmans were still the tops though. I got to see them live in May of 1971 at the Michigan Sate Fair grounds. I am on the the Go-Betweens Tallulah e-mail list, and The Friends of Rachel Worth is generally regarded as an ok comeback. It is nowhere near as good as Before Hollywood, Liberty Belle, or 16 Lovers Lane or even Spring Hill Fair. For those who haven't checked out The Go-Betweens, Before Hollywood is a great place to start. The new one sounds really promising though. Michael NP Stan Getz Getz for Lovers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:58:44 -0800 From: Eb Subject: GT Another reactionary "80s Night" for me...I saw Glenn Tilbrook at the Viper Room, last night. However, this tale has a happy ending. Tilbrook is quite a few years over-the-hill as a recording artist, but it was a darn good show and a lot better than I would have predicted. I guess the crucial "surprises" were him knowing his strengths and sticking with the sorts of songs which please an audience the most, plus his underrated guitar-playing. Some of his leads were fairly dazzling, and he did an excellent job of pruning those band-arranged songs down to solo, acoustic accompaniment. I was much less aware of the solo guitar's limitations than at similar Robyn shows, I must say. But why is Tilbrook such an effervescent ball o' fun onstage, yet the albums he has recorded since the early '90s are so conservative and dull? I was also struck that his speaking voice was a lot more accented and "working-class" than I would have expected, and that his rapid-fire, mock-huckster patter was a strong reminder that he used to share a stage with Jools Holland. It sometimes grew tiresome though, because all his chatter was "Marcy Tanter" this, "Marcy Tanter" that...he seemed a bit obsessed. For those interested, the signature songs Tilbrook did were "Is That Love," "Hourglass" and "From a Whisper to a Scream" during the meat of the set, and then "Take Me I'm Yours," "Tempted," "Pulling Mussels From a Shell" and "Another Nail for My Heart" all in a row at the end. More oddball choices included "Touching Me, Touching You" and "When the Hangover Strikes" (a request from the audience...someone I know, actually). There wasn't much of a turnout (the 175-capacity club was about 75% full), but most everyone there seemed pretty hardcore. Only one cloying "We love you, Glenn!!" heard, thankfully, though there were a few starry-eyed lyric-mouthers who really made me cringe. One beaming, head-swaying woman in front, especially. And *numerous* people sang along with "Tempted" -- come on, folks, this isn't Peter, Paul & Mary doing "Puff".... I had dropped my Incomplete Tilbrook CD into my jacket pocket, figuring I'd get it signed, but Tilbrook just *bolted* when the show ended. He literally *ran* out the front door, holding his guitar aloft in one hand, and vanished! Very strange. But yes, a very good show. Probably the best gig I've seen at the Viper Room, out of a dozen or so. And unlike Extreme Elvis earlier this year, Tilbrook didn't pee on the floor. A major plus. Before the show, I quickly dropped by Amoeba Music again and grabbed secondhand copies of Sleater-Kinney's Call the Doctor (a top-ranking item on my catalog "want list"), Pale Saints' The Comforts of Madness (this out-of-print disc was a steal at $7.95...it would go for three times that on eBay) and David Sylvian's Secrets of the Beehive (hi Jason). Eb (pardon the redundancy, Audities subscribers...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:06:51 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: 100% Dolph content -- ch-ch-ch-ch-changes hi gang -- I have a new e-mail address -- dolphmusic@rcn.com. Please switch your address book stuff for me (if you had such) to this. Also, my website may now be viewed at http://users.rcn.com/dolphmusic/ if you're so inclined (no new content just yet). Thanks, Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:12:39 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: today's diary entry Robyn goes to the gym? hunh.... http://slate.msn.com/ ?device=&displaymode=&workarea=&id=2075161&entry=2075320 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:55:43 -0600 From: Marcy Tanter Subject: Re: GT Ha bloody Ha! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 01:59:39 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: concerts of the year I just got back from the Peter Gabriel show in Phoenix. I almost skipped it, but found a great deal on eBay--I got a pair of second row seats for $99. Even after shipping, it was still less than $60 a ticket (face was $133). Man, it was just too good. It whipped a zebra's ass. Definitely one of the best shows of the year. It was a great year for shows. I went to about 25 concerts including Laurie Anderson, Robyn (solo), the Residents, X, the Cramps, Elvis Costello, the Strokes, Sleater-Kinney, Steve Hackett, Wesley Willis, the Soft Boys, and the Who. It makes it really hard to pick the best 5 shows of the year--I didn't feel like I saw any bad shows other than a few of the support acts: 1) Elvis Costello--Dodge Theatre, Phoenix 2) Soft Boys--Largo, Hollywood 3) Paul McCartney--America West Arena, Phoenix 4) The Cramps--Galaxy Ballroom, (Huntington Beach?) 5) Inland Invasion 2 (Sex Pistols, X, the Damned, Buzzcocks, Bad Religion, Social Distortion, others) Glen Helen Pavilion, Ontario, CA Time to get some sleep. Later, Marc I think a good scene in a movie would be where one scientist tells another scientist, "You know what will save the world? You're holding it in your hand." And the other scientist looks, and in his hand are peanuts. Then when he looks up, the first scientist is being taken away to the insane asylum.--- Jack Handey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:41:17 +0000 From: "Maurer Rose, Inverse Nome" Subject: Squirrls ate my post Hail Fellow-Fegs: I am preparing for a wonderful vac at the worst time of year for it--but ones 20th anniversery calls for some sort of hoopla, so Ill be gone for a few days. This leaves me, however, with baited breath--WhAT happens next in Robyn's Diary? The details Ive read so far are fine and good(And of course he hits the gym(especially in winter,) at a certain age some sort of excercise becomes manditory if you dont want to shrivel up into a withered homoculous(which he hasnt))(Nor that he's quite capable with particle matters. I argued this with another Feg once. They basicially claiming that all Robyn could probobly do was mumble about fish and stuff-- my saying he was probobly quite compatient at the drugeries of life when he wanted to be. So Ha there you know who you are, I'm vindicated!)but -- what happens with the Squirrls? Do K. and her kids escape being wisked into appliences? Today's excerpt wouldnt show up till later and I might miss it. Woe betide me. They do archive this stuff right? Thursday's ad on the diary page is what Santa is bringing me for Christmas:-) And thanks all for the comic stuff, especially the Oragami artiste and Unicorn Jelly. Good good stuff. the comediennes, especially the ones with bad attitude, I will check out at midnight, Christmas Eve. Kay _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 9:52:13 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Squirrls ate my post Kay wrote: > > ... especially the Origami artiste Conceptual artist Martin Creed has been doing this sort of thing for a while, and charging a *lot* more for the artwork. There's one on display at the Art Gallery of Ontario ... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:44:57 -0500 From: rtaylor@dlalaw.com Subject: shine on you crazy diarist Robyn lands in a large &, I think, pretty mainstream site but comes out blazing with his true-blue surrealism & dissident politics! Plus an attack on squirrellyness in general! The squirrel story may not be quite up to the level of "Moose Mark," but it's pretty darn funny. Sometimes he reminds me of Donald Barthleme. I know open forums like The Fray aren't a good judge of anything -- they seem to often be devoted to lump-headed flaming -- but it's amusing how baffled the people there are by Robyn. Mostly "he shouldn't oughta make fun of the South" kinds of comments. I bet they are mostly ticked by the peacenik stance, but for some reason won't address that. Perhaps he will reach a few more people this way... Ross Taylor "I know what you mean, and it sounds good to me but oh Mr. D, I'm so restless" -- Roger McGuinn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:52:48 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: and another thing... There's an interview with Robyn in the latest Resonance magazine. I only skimmed the article in the store but there's an interesting theme of "purging" to the questioning. I first noticed Resonance last year when Vincent Gallo was on the cover. Imagine him, New Order, Spiritualized and Le Tigre covered in the same issue. Caroline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:50:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: poking my head in the door to say hello... > From: "Natalie Jane" > I also recently got all hot and bothered about records by Ryan Adams Freaky. I was listening to Whiskeytown when I read this. I too have been listening to Ryan Adams a lot recently. The guy can write a good song. I hear he's quite a shit in person, but we mustn't ignore good songwriters. I've also been listening to a lot recently is Richard Buckner. He's got a great, low, gutteral voice and hangs with the Calexico crowd. Oh, and welcome back! . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:11:10 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: diary: so...? Who was Karl? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:22:14 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Where They Post Antique E-Mails Firstly, my post entitled "Where They Sell Antique Time Signatures"-- which you have to admit is a very clever title, and in doing so acknowledge how very important clever titles are, certainly more important than songs-- was written and sent three weeks ago, and I have no idea why it just now appeared on the digest. Sorry for the confusion... ___________ Marshall: >>I don't consider MBV shoegazers -- a severely limiting genre term for some of the >>holiest music I've ever heard Well, it's a dumb term on the best of days, but I always thought it was more or less coined *for* MBV. I honestly liked a lot of the bands that got tagged with the label and I still carry a torch for some of the best records they did. Of the ones I saw, only Slowdive (opening for, umm, somebody) were motionless and inert live. Ride were positively ferocious. Um, did I just slip into British-collective-band-name-conjugation there? Sadly I never saw MBV live. Hope springs eternal, though. ___________ Eb: >>my thought process was literally "Oh, 'Gilmore Girls' and 'Buffy' are reruns?? Uhm, Gilmore Girls? Really? And I was worried about revealing that I had once liked a Jesus Jones album. _______ gSs: >>every american is an alt-country fan and all women are closet-bisexuals Not entirely accurate. Some Americans are just plain country fans. And some women are openly bisexual. God love all four. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:00:34 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails >Rex waxed 'tude: > >>my thought process was literally "Oh, 'Gilmore Girls' and 'Buffy' are >reruns?? > >Uhm, Gilmore Girls? Really? And I was worried about revealing that I had >once liked a Jesus Jones album. My favorite current show, next to "24." Can't say that I'm especially prone to feeling "humiliated" about this. Especially in *this* realm, since a common Robyn Hitchcock crony is a semi-regular in the cast.... Oh, and I have three Jesus Jones cassettes too, though I've contemplated getting rid of them many times. Eb np: Belle & Sebastian/The Boy With the Arab Strap (don't like this one as well as Feeling Sinister, sorry to say) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:16:05 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails Quoting Eb : > >Rex waxed 'tude: > >Uhm, Gilmore Girls? Really? > My favorite current show, next to "24." Can't say that I'm especially > prone to feeling "humiliated" about this. Especially in *this* realm, > since a common Robyn Hitchcock crony is a semi-regular in the cast... For those who don't watch it (or if they're Miles and incomprehensibly don't care for it), that'd be Grant Lee Phillips as the town minstrel. I guess I could imagine someone not liking the show on some grounds: everything's pretty broadly drawn, Lorelai in particular can be headache-inducing...uh, that's about it, for reasonable reasons. Lame reasons include thinking it's a "children's" show (as our cable company's online guide unaccountably labels it) or that it's a "girl" thing (snorts derisively). But I like the pacing, inspired by screwball comedies of the '30s, as well as the wit (same). The characters are actually fairly complex, particularly as they evolve, and the familiar interrelationships, particularly the three Gilmore women (Emily, Lorelai, and Rory), are particularly well-done. Oh, and Lauren Graham's fun to watch (drool, drool). Can't say much about Jesus Jones, however... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ps: Rex, your individual message showed up in my inbox yesterday - dated 11/26. Apparently smoe.org's been having weirdness with excessively vigilant anti-spammers - don't know if there's any connection... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:27:30 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails At 12:00 PM 12/13/2002 -0800, Eb wrote: >>Rex waxed 'tude: >> >>my thought process was literally "Oh, 'Gilmore Girls' and 'Buffy' are >>reruns?? >> >>Uhm, Gilmore Girls? Really? And I was worried about revealing that I had >>once liked a Jesus Jones album. > >My favorite current show, next to "24." Can't say that I'm especially >prone to feeling "humiliated" about this. If Loud-Fans' affection for the show is any indicator, I'd suspect that GILMORE GIRLS probably has a substantial fan base here. It doesn't include me -- Melissa and I can't stand the show, after numerous attempts to see what everyone else liked about it. Um, didn't see it. The one Jesus Jones album I own is currently in a pile of CDs to be sold on the next trip to the used store. I think it's been in that stack before and gotten pulled back at the last minute. I think it might make it to the store this time. Whether they'll take it or not, that's another question. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:28:36 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails >Miles: >If Loud-Fans' affection for the show is any indicator, I'd suspect >that GILMORE GIRLS probably has a substantial fan base here. Well, of COURSE the Loud Fans would love it...the show is absolutely STUFFED with pointless, showoff allusions. ;) Eb np: http://home.earthlink.net/~elbroome/np.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:54:42 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails At 12:28 PM 12/13/2002 -0800, Eb wrote: >>Miles: >>If Loud-Fans' affection for the show is any indicator, I'd suspect >>that GILMORE GIRLS probably has a substantial fan base here. > >Well, of COURSE the Loud Fans would love it...the show is absolutely >STUFFED with pointless, showoff allusions. ;) Actually, that's one of my complaints about the show (though I remain a resolute Scott Miller fan) -- all the cool allusions rarely ring true to the characters, and seem more grafted on to the characters, to show off the writers' and producers' "cool" factor, than natural outgrowths of the characters themselves. Jeff could probably recite the rest of what I'm about to say about GG: Lorelei and Rory seem to be the only full-fledged characters in the town. They spend their time talking to one-quirk characters who might as well be cardboard props with a pull string that delivers one of three similar lines depending on how far you draw the string out. I've heard arguments from Jeff and others (including that MSN "top ten TV characters," which on the whole was pretty solid) that I should add Lorelei's mom to the list of 3D GG denizens, but (1) all that character development must have happened in the second season or something, and (2) I can't see throwing away another hour of my life after the 15 to 20 I've already tossed down the GG rabbit hole. And for me to be this adamant about *not* watching a show that stars a woman as totally delectable as Lauren Graham -- man, it's got to push a lot of my "irk" buttons. OK, to cross over another thread: I just thought everyone knew that Ben Orr sang many Cars songs (including big hits like "Drive," "Just What I Needed," and "Let's Go") and could tell the difference between his voice and Ric Ocasek's, but a cursory mention in a thread about "singers in the same band who sound alike" has shown me that, at least with this subgroup of astute, knowledgable pop fans, I was wrong. Right now it's about 20 in favor of "the Cars had another singer?" to only one person who joins be in being able to tell a difference. How about in Fegdom? Or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, since previous experience indicates that I'm about to be vastly outnumbered on both these counts. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:57:58 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails >all the cool allusions rarely ring true to the characters, and seem >more grafted on to the characters, to show off the writers' and >producers' "cool" factor, than natural outgrowths of the characters >themselves. A fair gripe, yes. Though maybe not fair in the case of "Lane," who *is* a character fixated on such trivia. >Lorelei and Rory seem to be the only full-fledged characters in the >town. They spend their time talking to one-quirk characters who >might as well be cardboard props with a pull string that delivers >one of three similar lines depending on how far you draw the string >out. Not so fair. By television standards, I'd say that show has established a remarkable number of interesting characters. Eb, who felt stupid when he recently learned that the show's theme was actually an old song, and *not* commissioned for the show (then again, I never claimed to be a Carole King expert) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:19:15 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails At 12:57 PM 12/13/2002 -0800, Eb wrote: >>Lorelei and Rory seem to be the only full-fledged characters in the >>town. They spend their time talking to one-quirk characters who >>might as well be cardboard props with a pull string that delivers >>one of three similar lines depending on how far you draw the string >>out. > >Not so fair. By television standards, I'd say that show has >established a remarkable number of interesting characters. By television standards, *two* is a remarkable number of interesting characters. :-) I saw almost all of GG's first season, took an occasional flyer on second season episodes, and after still hating it after all that exposure, have successfully avoided it ever since. Are there new (or new-ish) characters that we're talking about here? The only one I ever saw who seemed to have any hope of becoming a Real Live Character was Coffee-Shop Lorelei-Love-Interest Guy, but that was, like, one of a zillion. I pretty much wanted to strangle Sookie, Miss Patty, the elder Gilmores, the mincing guy who works with Lorelei, and... well, pretty much everyone who wasn't Lorelei and Rory. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:02:31 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Speaking of TV and Buffy... ...if you haven't heard, Firefly has been cancelled. I couldn't get into it myself, but.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:12:34 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Where They Sell Antique Time Signatures >I think this has already been happening for a while. When I was in high >school in WVa in the '80's, the kids spoke an unholy collision of our native >semi-southern accent and California "valley girl" inflections-- what is now >commonly called "upspeak", rendering all statements questions. upspeak has been common in Auckland since at least the 1950s. According to linguists it shows that the speakers feel inferior (this is actually the opposite problem that most Aucklanders I've met seem to have). It makes it very confusing if you're asking them questions: Q: "Can you tell me how to get to Aotea Square?" A: "You go up that street there? Then turn third left on Parnell Road?" Q: "You DO know how to get there, don't you?" A: "I do?" Q: "Never mind, I'll ask someone else." Our biggest input from US accents is urban Maori and Polynesian speech, which is a mixture of traditional island accents and slang, and stylings picked up from gangsta rap and ebonics. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:39:11 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails Quoting Eb : > >all the cool allusions rarely ring true to the characters, and seem > >more grafted on to the characters, to show off the writers' and > >producers' "cool" factor, than natural outgrowths of the characters > >themselves. > > A fair gripe, yes. Though maybe not fair in the case of "Lane," who > *is* a character fixated on such trivia. She's the compulsive pop geek, to be sure - the episode in which she was attempting to write an ad to audition for a band was a scream. (She'd had a list of influences, oh, about thirty bands long...) But I'm not so sure about the lack of ringing true: the only characters who typically throw off such references are those who *would* know, respond, and communicate via them: Lorelai mostly, and to a lesser extent, Rory (usually w/either Lorelai or Lane), Luke, Jess... And when other characters do so, the refs actually are in character - as when Lorelai's father mentioned having been a Chuck Berry fan (why not?). The problem, I think, is that some folks have a problem with writing that simultaneously presents "real" characters with realistic emotions (the core group) and farcical, near-prop characters (everybody else, plus, on occasion when appropriate, even the core characters). To me this is clearly a *style* that the show is working within, and to complain that Doose is a caricature, that Lane's mother is a caricature...well duh - it's like complaining that things don't really blow up so readily as they do in an action film. Within those confines, though, even the lesser characters end up being at least two-dimensional, over time. Every once in a while we'll get a hint that the characters have a life beyond their given quirks. The most poorly drawn character, for me, is Dean, Rory's (currently ex-)boyfriend. The writers seem unable to decide whether he has a spine, unable to make up their minds if he's a yahoo or a sensitive soul, etc. etc. He's been grossly inconsistent for a second-tier character. Then, boyfriends in female-centered shows often seem to be difficult to write (see Riley over on _Buffy_ for another example - 'course, the guy couldn't *act* either, which is why no matter how head-scratching Buffy's writers get regarding Spike, it still works, usually, since Marsters is a fine actor). While I'm at it, I actually like Jess, and think that the extent to which he's a stereotype is largely of his own making: he's the kind of teen boy who would intentionally try to portray himself in that sort of tough-kid way. I'm trying to remember now the other large-scale disageement between Miles and myself...usually, we're pretty compatible in terms of taste, but there's some act he loves that I abhor, or vice versa. Can't remember who... Lots of relative indifference, but I'm thinking major disagreement and can't recall. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:54:46 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Speaking of TV and Buffy... At 02:02 PM 12/13/2002 -0800, Eb wrote: >...if you haven't heard, Firefly has been cancelled. I couldn't get >into it myself, but.... The pilot was the weakest episode (probably because of it being cut down from Joss' planned two-hour debut -- said two-hour original version to air on Dec. 20th, last I heard), but it steadily improved, and seemed to be one of those BABYLON 5-type growers, with a long-term story arc. I haven't actually heard this and don't see it on any of the usual outlets (E!, CNN, Variety) yet. Last I heard, Fox was somewhat encouraged and had ordered a couple more episodes -- not the full "back 9" you'd hope for, but better than "cancelled." If this has happened, well, phooey. I think networks put dramas on Friday night just to kill them off -- see HOMICIDE, MILLENNIUM (its second, Morgan/Wong-produced season was one of the best years a TV series ever had IMO), and lots of others. Heck, Fox kept wanting to kill THE X-FILES, even with the critical acclaim, because its numbers were, like for all Friday series, predictably bad... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:54:50 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Where They Post Antique E-Mails >But I'm not so sure about the lack of ringing true: the only characters who >typically throw off such references are those who *would* know, respond, >and communicate via them: Lorelai mostly, and to a lesser extent, Rory >(usually w/either Lorelai or Lane), Luke, Jess... One criticism I've read which seemed quite valid to me is that the show began with Rory being the shy mouse who sorta "derailed" her mother's narcissistic chattering, and that their interaction has become more tiresome now, because Rory pulls the same allusive-whimsy stuff which Lorelei does. And thus, Lorelei has no one to keep her in check anymore, and she just babbles babbles babbles. ;) GG is my second-favorite, current TV show (on network TV, anyway), but I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. My brain kinda tunes out whenever the setting switches to Chilton, whenever Dean enters.... And Sookie is really underused, I think. >The most poorly drawn character, for me, is Dean, Rory's (currently >ex-)boyfriend. Yeah, he really has overstayed his welcome. And his recent bullying "C'mon...you wanna piece of me?" scene with Jess (or as a friend and I like to call him, "Poochie") seemed totally out of character, and way over-the-top as written. Eb ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #421 ********************************