From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #402 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, November 27 2002 Volume 11 : Number 402 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Not expecting both voice recognition and wittiness ["Rex.Broome" ] News of probable interest [Eb ] Blur / The Tull-Goth connection ["Rex.Broome" ] Not expecting both voice recognition and wittiness ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: News of probable interest [Dolph Chaney ] Re: News of probable interest ["Mike Wells" ] RE: News of probable interest ["Bachman, Michael" ] 7 beats, talking to machines [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] ecosongs [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Anyone wanna offer opinions on these? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] where they write back to Eb but get ehhhhhh'd [Miles Goosens ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:10:45 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Not expecting both voice recognition and wittiness (#1 in a series of posts whose titles are modeled after Scott Miller song titles) Jeffrey: >>One of the most inane and annoying attempts at same was that vogue a few >>years back for "talking" ATMs, Coke machines, etc. I once encountered an ATM which, while it didn't speak, did flash a message saying it had "been a pleasure serving" me. Odd that they would jump from a simple but still implausible "thank you" to a phrase involving such a loaded word as "pleasure". >>who the hell wants to talk to a machine? My coworker actually enjoys exploring the programming on voice-recognition customer-service phone systems, and he's found some funny things... little scripts you could almost call "witty" (which as we now know is a bad thing). For example, the Office Depot computer will ask you if you need more time, and if you say yes, it will pause and eventually start humming tunelessly to "keep itself occupied". _________ >>One of the things I really dug about the Rutles movie is that they managed to >>get that right, too, among all the other musical things they got right. Little shit >>that only a musician would catch. My favorite bit is the fluffed solo in "Love Life" or whatever the "All You Need Is Love" parody is called. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:18:27 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Fwd: women in rock? > >Open letter from Joan Jett to Rolling Stone > >actually written by Maya Price Huh? I was thinking this was such a witty, ballsy letter, until I got to the end...oh well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:25:21 -0700 From: Eb Subject: News of probable interest >Jetset is proud to announce the release of the new Go-Betweens album, >"Bright Yellow,Bright Orange" on Feb 18th 2003. In 2000, the critically >acclaimed "The Friends of Rachel Worth" marked the first time in history a >rock band ever reformed after a decade to produce an album that their public >loved as much or more as their early work. Robert Forster describes the >shimmering "Bright Yellow, Bright Orange" as "Our Forever Changes or After >the Goldrush". Huh! I wouldn't have necessarily expected a *second* reunion album. (Anyone wanna come up with an example to counter his "first time in history" claim? I thought at least one of the reunited Buzzcocks albums, All Set, was about as good as the original stuff, but I guess most others didn't agree....) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:50:07 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Blur / The Tull-Goth connection Drew on Blur: >>We've already covered the fact that I'm indifferent to the Kinks, which I >>suppose robs me of all credibility, but it's true No credibility loss on my behalf, althought I love the Kinks myself and I think they were the best fit for Blur. I guess my real beef is that they always seem to be disguising themselves as another band... as you say, they were a fun but subpar Happy Mondays; a pretty fair modern Kinks; an annoying Pavement clone; and on 13 I don't even know who they were trying to be, to their detriment. I should probably try "Modern Life"... I don't recall ever having heard any of the songs from it, so I haven't picked it up yet. >>I've given all of those bands a chance and been unimpressed. In this case I will definitely take your word! _____ Michael EK: >Songs From The Wood? Stolen by a goth? That's odd. Well, perhaps listening >to it showed him the light. I inherited a bunch of vinyl from a friend of my wife once. Although not explicitly goth, most of it was vintage 4AD stuff, which is close enough... the only stuff I left behind was a set of three or four Tull albums, which seemed incongruous at the time. Maybe not, though. My band also once shared a lockout with a Goth band that had a full-time flute player. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:59:26 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Fwd: women in rock? On Tue, Nov 26, 2002, Eb wrote: > > >Open letter from Joan Jett to Rolling Stone > > > >actually written by Maya Price > > Huh? I was thinking this was such a witty, ballsy letter, until I got > to the end...oh well. Actually, I knew that it couldn't have been Joan. Even someone who does refer to themselves in the 3rd person doesn't do it in that style. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:09:48 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Not expecting both voice recognition and wittiness (#1 in a series of posts whose titles are modeled after Scott Miller song titles) (sorry if this is a double-post-- power failure here, can't tell what got lost and what didn't..) Jeffrey: >>One of the most inane and annoying attempts at same was that vogue a few >>years back for "talking" ATMs, Coke machines, etc. I once encountered an ATM which, while it didn't speak, did flash a message saying it had "been a pleasure serving" me. Odd that they would jump from a simple but still implausible "thank you" to a phrase involving such a loaded word as "pleasure". >>who the hell wants to talk to a machine? My coworker actually enjoys exploring the programming on voice-recognition customer-service phone systems, and he's found some funny things... little scripts you could almost call "witty" (which as we now know is a bad thing). For example, the Office Depot computer will ask you if you need more time, and if you say yes, it will pause and eventually start humming tunelessly to "keep itself occupied". _________ >>One of the things I really dug about the Rutles movie is that they managed to >>get that right, too, among all the other musical things they got right. Little shit >>that only a musician would catch. My favorite bit is the fluffed solo in "Love Life" or whatever the "All You Need Is Love" parody is called. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:13:16 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: News of probable interest >For those who haven't checked out The Go-Betweens, Before Hollywood is a >great place to start. Isn't that one of the "punkier" ones? I have it, but haven't played it in awhile. I'd tell someone to start with Liberty Belle or Tallulah. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:48:27 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: News of probable interest At 01:25 PM 11/26/02, Eb wrote: >(Anyone wanna come up with an example to counter his "first time in >history" claim? I thought at least one of the reunited Buzzcocks albums, >All Set, was about as good as the original stuff, but I guess most others >didn't agree....) This is trickier than it seems. My first thought was Television's reunion record, but that also (wonderful as it is) isn't as beloved as MARQUEE MOON to the purists. hmmmmmm... dolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:58:21 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Re: News of probable interest > At 01:25 PM 11/26/02, Eb wrote: > >(Anyone wanna come up with an example to counter his "first time in > >history" claim? I thought at least one of the reunited Buzzcocks albums, > >All Set, was about as good as the original stuff, but I guess most others > >didn't agree....) I'm sure this will ride counter to general opinion, but I'm gonna go with The Soft Boys. I clearly like "Nextdoorland" more than any other album in their catalog, except for about half of "Underwater Moonlight," which makes it close. Michael "it's my own damn opinion" Wells Ps. wonder what von Vliet has up his sleeve, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:03:52 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: News of probable interest >>For those who haven't checked out The Go-Betweens, Before Hollywood is a >>great place to start. Eb wrote: >Isn't that one of the "punkier" ones? I have it, but haven't played >it in awhile. >I'd tell someone to start with Liberty Belle or Tallulah. Before Hollywood is one of the "punkier" ones, their second release from 1983. It does have some quieter moments though, such as Dusty in Here. It also has the great Cattle and Cain. Lindy Morrison was quiet the unique drummer, and she is in top form on Before Hollywood. This was their last release as a three piece band. With Spring Hill Fair they added Robert Vickers on bass and Grant McLennan switched over to guitar. Liberty Belle is a good place to start as well or even 16 Lovers Lane. 16 is a laid back affair, great songs, but mostly acoustic. Amanda Brown is on board on Tallulah and 16 Lovers Lane playing oboe and violin. I would avoid Tallulah as a starting point because of too many clunky songs that seem to miss the mark. Before Hollywood, Liberty Belle and 16 Lovers Lane are more consistent. The reason I recommend Before Hollywood is the Circus/Jetset double cd reissue that came out this summer. It has a second cd of outtakes, b-sides and the video of Cattle and Cain. With this reissue, BH is now my favorite. Michael NP John Coltrane Ballads (Deluxe Edition) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:33:13 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Anyone wanna offer opinions on these? It's time for me to start fretting over a top 10 for 2002, and I'm stymied by a few notable albums which I still haven't heard or bought: Moby/18 Pere Ubu/St. Arkansas Of Montreal/Aldhil's Arboretum Sleater-Kinney/One Beat Frank Black/Black Letter Days *and* Devil's Workshop Guided by Voices/Universal Truths & Cycles Great Lakes/The Distance Between Thoughts? Also, has anyone heard the band Liars? I recently heard some soundclips, and they sounded pretty good to me. VERY Gang of Four-esque. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:32:23 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: 7 beats, talking to machines >"Solisbury Hill" and "Glass" are in the same odd time signeture? What I love >about both is --incredibly perfect words, pop sensibility and yet a sense of >uncannyness that works with the words to lift both songs past themselves. >And "Strawberry Fields" too, same thing --thou in this one Im aware that the >timing is unusual. actually, re-listening to Glass, it's just the instrumental parts (intro and fill between the verses) that is in 7. The verses themselves are in straight 4/4. On Solsbury Hill (and You'll have to go sideways, and Money) the whole track is 7/4. I also noticed that the same 'bell' sound is used on Glass as on Airscape. >Is the time signeture part of what makes for this uncannyness? Somehow that >makes sense. My ear does hear something strange in these songs, something >lovely and lonely and terrible I cant identify or pin down, that dosnt >diminish with repeated listenings. I'd thought it must be in the melodies. > >As a non-musician Im really ignorant of this stuff. I dont know why -- but >my prejuidice is to think of weird timings as just show-off stuff, "look >what we can do." But perhaps thats not the case. Do different timings do >alot to determine the mood and power of a song? Im not trying to be stupid, >just to understand as best a punter can. I know syncopation changes the >mood-- but what else? And how? And most of all, why? I'm not sure that time signatures are a major part of that uncanny feeling - - I'd say they're far less important to that feeling than the chord structure and tempo. But then again, a straight 4/4 can make for such a powerful beat that any edginess in the sound can get overlooked. Believe it or not, most of Strawberry Fields Forever is a fairly common 3/4 (it's the tempo that is varied), but the far less edgy "Here comes the sun" mucks around all over the place with changing signatures. >I would put money on the chance that once we get lots of gadgets with voice >recognition, people will loose most of their induvidual inflections and >vocal quirks. Regional accents will lessen and disappear. In time we'll >have trends in speech like we now have trends in fashion. that's been happening ever since the introduction of television and radio. But even though accents have softened, I don't think they'll ever totally disappear. People will just affect neutral voices when talking to their gadgets, in much the same way that people often use slightly different voices when talking to different types of people. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:33:46 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: ecosongs >Adrian Belew - "Burned by the Fire We Make." I don't remember >if it's on any of the full-blown commercial releases, but it's >on the Acoustic Adrian Belew, for sure. It's on "Here", a seriously underrated Belew album. >Bruce Cockburn HAS to have at least a song or two in that category, what's the song of his with the line "IMF - dirty MF"? Is it "If a tree falls"? "If a tree fall"'s a must-have on your list anyway I'll repeat the obvious, obvious choice that I mentioned earlier (it was in the middle of a long post, so may have been overlooked): XTC - River of Orchids James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:13:30 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Anyone wanna offer opinions on these? Eb wrote: > > Of Montreal/Aldhil's Arboretum it's lovely - more like their earlier albums than the last two concept albums, which could have been a little twee for most people's liking. Very Andy Partridge in places -- early stuff, mind -- in "Doing Nothing". Out-Robert-Schneiders Robert Schneider on "Jennifer Louise". Lovely pop in "A Question for Emily Foreman". Wistfulness in "Pancakes for One". And yes, there are at least three quirked-out twee tracks too. Something for everyone. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:11:27 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: ecosongs (what would you say to your idiot son?) Quoting James Dignan : > >Bruce Cockburn HAS to have at least a song or two in that category, > > what's the song of his with the line "IMF - dirty MF"? "Call it Democracy," I think - is that on _World of Wonders_? > I'll repeat the obvious, obvious choice that I mentioned earlier (it was in > the middle of a long post, so may have been overlooked): XTC - River of > Orchids How about that Talking Heads song "Flowers"? PS: "Strawberry Fields" is mostly in 4/4, actually. But there are weird triplets on top of that (background of "no one I think is in my tree," for example), and the main doohickey in the chorus (the title phrase) is 6/8. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Anyone wanna offer opinions on these? On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Eb wrote: > Sleater-Kinney/One Beat I thought it wasn't bad, but since Dig Me Out my ability to get Sleater-Kinney songs stuck in my head has steadily decreased, so I never find myself listening to their records much. > Frank Black/Black Letter Days *and* Devil's Workshop Half of Devil's Workshop really grabbed me -- the music doesn't sound like the Pixies, but it has a lot of the energy he seemed to lose when the band broke up. Black Letter Days is about what you'd expect from the direction the last several Catholics records have gone in... not really my thing most of the time. > Also, has anyone heard the band Liars? I recently heard some > soundclips, and they sounded pretty good to me. VERY Gang of > Four-esque. I like the album. I've also bought two EPs (are there more?) figuring that a band with such a compact/tense sound would pack even more punch into a really short record, but that didn't happen. The album ends with an irritating 30-minute loop thing, though there's no bonus track afterward or anything, so one can just stop it when it gets boring. (I guess it's not a real loop, just a very repetitive and unengaging thing. Hard to guess from the rest of the record whether it was supposed to be a hypnotic chillout or an intentional annoyance.) One of the tracks is actually an ESG song with the Liars' vocals over it, if I recall correctly. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:45:09 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: News of probable interest - --On Tuesday, November 26, 2002 15:58:21 -0600 Mike Wells wrote: >> At 01:25 PM 11/26/02, Eb wrote: >> > (Anyone wanna come up with an example to counter his "first time in >> > history" claim? I thought at least one of the reunited Buzzcocks >> > albums, All Set, was about as good as the original stuff, but I guess >> > most others didn't agree....) > > I'm sure this will ride counter to general opinion, but I'm gonna go with > The Soft Boys. I clearly like "Nextdoorland" more than any other album in > their catalog, except for about half of "Underwater Moonlight," which > makes it close. But it came out *after* the Go-Betweens CD, so that theirs could still be the "first time in history" ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Non regalate terre promesse a chi non le mantiene. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:49:08 -0500 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: Savaged by a wonky-faced dwarf (my Radiohead story) On 26 Nov 2002 at 10:24, matt sewell wrote: > Through Johnny & Colin I met Thom Yorke, and we didn't get > on very well at all (his first words to me were "I can play I Am The > Resurrection all the way through, even the end bit". My first words to > him were "yeah... good..." ). Anyway, his dislike for me was sufficient > to attack me in the song Anyone Can Play Guitar. Who was that woman who thought Pink Floyd was sending her messages in their songs? I'd almost forgotten about that. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:13:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Eddie Cochran On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Brian Hoare wrote: > The road side memorial thingy http://www.halletts.co.uk/images/eddie.JPG * Nice! And more interesting than this picture of the former site of his father's garage (with possible view of the foundations): > I think Chippenham is only mentioned in one pop/rock song, Kim's EC > Blues. cf New Orleans. Hmmm. Then it's not in Rolf Harris's version of "I've been everywhere, man"? All I can suggest is that you change the title of "Galveston" and sing "Chippenham" instead :) - - MRG PS [Tune: Deutschland Uber Alles] Drove she ducklings to the wa-aa-ter Every morning just aa-at nine Caught her foot upon a splinter Fell into the foaming brine [2nd bit of tune] I could see her going under Blowing bubbles mighty fine But a-la-as I was no swi-i-mer So I-I lo-ost my-y Clem-en-tine IT WORKS! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:37:43 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: where they write back to Eb but get ehhhhhh'd Eb: >Pere Ubu/St. Arkansas Keep in mind that I've enjoyed Pere Ubu's stuff from THE TENEMENT YEAR onwards as much as I enjoyed the legendary early material... up until PENNSYLVANIA, which failed to engage me on any level, and just felt tuneless and formless. At least the wonkier stuff from earlier, like ART OF WALKING, was interesting even when I didn't care for the results. So to me, ST. ARKANSAS is a comeback, the strongest thing they've done since STORY OF MY LIFE. The album seems purposeful, and its several continued lyrical and musical themes (some of which also seem connected to STORY OF MY LIFE) resonate more strongly as the album goes on, making album closer "Dark" all the more chilling. It's the combination of off-kilter, ferocious, and tuneful that I like best in my Ubu. aaron: >On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Eb wrote: >> Frank Black/Black Letter Days *and* Devil's Workshop > >Half of Devil's Workshop really grabbed me -- the music doesn't sound like >the Pixies, but it has a lot of the energy he seemed to lose when the band >broke up. Black Letter Days is about what you'd expect from the direction >the last several Catholics records have gone in... not really my thing >most of the time. My opinion is just the opposite of aaron's: BLACK LETTER DAYS sounds absolutely smokin' and has the most memorable tunes (including two takes of Tom Waits' "The Black Rider"), whereas DEVIL'S WORKSHOP, despite gorgeous cover art, doesn't sound any better (or worse, I guess) than the last couple of FB&tC albums. >> Also, has anyone heard the band Liars? I recently heard some >> soundclips, and they sounded pretty good to me. VERY Gang of >> Four-esque. > >I like the album. I've also bought two EPs (are there more?) figuring that >a band with such a compact/tense sound would pack even more punch into a >really short record, but that didn't happen. The album ends with an >irritating 30-minute loop thing, though there's no bonus track afterward >or anything, so one can just stop it when it gets boring. (I guess it's >not a real loop, just a very repetitive and unengaging thing. Hard to >guess from the rest of the record whether it was supposed to be a hypnotic >chillout or an intentional annoyance.) I just got the Liars' album based on Colin Newman's endorsement of it, and I've enjoyed the first couple of listens - GoF isn't a bad comparison, but neither would be "a more electronically processed early Wire." The 30-minute closing track only started to get boring to me around minute 11 or 12, or at least that's when I thought "it's not going to be any different, so why not fade it now?" And the rest of the songs are, IIRC, fairly concise. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:01:22 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: snark pretty Eleanore: >I have just passed the California Bar Exam! (So if anyone needs a >divorce atty in Ca bay area......;-)) Congratulations! I do hope none of my Bay Area friends and Fegs ever need your services, at least in this specialty... M to the E to the K to the WaPH: >Apropos of nothing: I forgot to answer my trivia question a while back: the >first act in to have their debut album debut on the Billboard charts at #1 >the first week of release was Snoop Doggy Dogg. I meant to say that it would have to be an artist in the Soundscan era, but I still wouldn't have remembered that it was Snoop. Eb: >Not all Steve Albini productions have "that sound," though. Remember >that he has worked with groups like the Auteurs, Low, Bedhead, >Mogwai, Nina Nastasia (*excellently* produced, I must say), Shannon >Wright.... I think of those I have only the Auteurs and maybe Low. I'll concede that I haven't heard everything he's produced, but unlike the "produced by Mitch Easter" credit of the '80s, which almost guaranteed that I'd like the band, the "recorded by Steve Albini" credit has worked as a deterrent for me when I haven't been familiar with the artist already. >He sure f*cked up that Jimmy Page/Robert Plant album, though. He was such a weird choice, a total contrast with Page's perfectionism. I have to believe that it had to be Plant's idea to bring him in, since Plant is an avid fan of contemporary rock. The album ended up sounding strange, very dry yet clear, like Page and Albini split the difference and came up with something that had the worst of both worlds. >Now, on the other hand, the *second* Tin Machine album "sucked all >kinds of ass" (to borrow someone's amusing Love & Rockets slag). I just think it's got fewer memorable songs, but it's not a disaster. "Baby Universal," "One Shot," and "Shopping for Girls" are as good as anything on the first album, and the cover of Roxy Music's "If There Is Something" is an inspired choice, especially given the glam "rivalry" between Roxy and Bowie. The tracks sung by the Sales brothers are clearly third-tier, and I can't even remember the rest of the Bowie/Gabrels songs. >But >it seemed like that one didn't get nearly as much as abuse, purely >because by that time, no one really *cared* anymore. The controversy over the "censoring" of the statues on its cover got far more press than what was on the CD itself. Me, then Rex: >Miles on >>>unless I *know* the bank teller, I don't feel like I got "personalized" >service >>>from them if they say "Thank you, Miles" -- I feel creeped out. > >Not to make too much of this, but do you think this is common to people who >grow up in a kind of "small town" environment and don't like it that much? > >There's a lot of idealization of the small town life where everybody knows >everybody etc. etc... but I was delighted to escape it. I like not seeing >everyone I know every time I go to the grocery store, since, frankly, I >don't *like* everyone I know. My friends are spread out all over a big ol' >city and I go to their houses or to parties which I know will be attended >predominantly by people I do like, or their friends whom I'll probably also >like. Meanwhile when I visit my folks I'll go out with my mom and she'll >get stuck in some kind of small-talky conversation with someone I know she's >none too fond of. I like my big-city anonymity-by-choice, and maybe that's >part of why I like my art that way, too. I think you're on to something, though I can see how even someone born to the city would also enjoy the upside of anonymity. I didn't feel as confined when I was growing up as I do *now* when I go back for visits. Of course, I didn't live in a "town" but up on a hillside, so we kept pretty much to ourselves, and people left us pretty much the hell alone too, so I had a lot of freedom within this context. (I heard an interview on Vandy's radio station a couple of years ago with a painter from Appalachian Kentucky, who expressed the same sentiment when the host expressed incredulity about this guy's origins -- he told the host that he could do whatever he liked as long as he didn't trouble anyone else.) But it's different now, as obscene levels of joblessness (far, far worse than it was in the '70s and early '80s) have meant that pretty much everybody who's able to leave has left. Combine that with the devastating floods of 2001 and 2002 (thanks, strip miners and loggers!), and it's pretty much a wreck, and all that's left are the elderly and the dregs, and small-mindedness, nosiness, and religious conformity all seem to have been on the rise over the last 15 years. It seems smaller and uglier now, even though the topography remains as gorgeous as ever. As my wife and I start to face choices about caring for elderly parents, returning seems like a far less palatable choice, and I appreciate what we have even in a "small" city like Nashville (with over 1,000,000 in the MSA, it doesn't seem small to me) even more. Kay: >Miles. Thank you. That Momus site was a fun way to start the day. I expected >him to be a Goth dripping noir but instead I got an auburn-haired, balding, >purblind Scot with a brain working overtime. Oh, he's not goth in any way. Susan Dodge (still lurking here?) was Feg's early adapter of Momus, but actual exposure to him made me just as big of a fan. However, I think that even the non-fan would get a kick out of Momus' essays. >Is the time signeture part of what makes for this uncannyness? Somehow that >makes sense. My ear does hear something strange in these songs, something >lovely and lonely and terrible I cant identify or pin down, that dosnt >diminish with repeated listenings. I'd thought it must be in the melodies. > >As a non-musician Im really ignorant of this stuff. I dont know why -- but >my prejuidice is to think of weird timings as just show-off stuff, "look >what we can do." But perhaps thats not the case. Do different timings do >alot to determine the mood and power of a song? Im not trying to be stupid, >just to understand as best a punter can. I know syncopation changes the >mood-- but what else? And how? And most of all, why? James has sort of pooh-pooh'd Kay's notion, but as a fellow non-musician, I think she might be touching on something that those of us who don't or can't determine the time signatures might not be noticing. I think that even if an unusual-by-pop-standards time signature isn't always sufficient to cause the sense of oddness that Kay's talking about, it could certainly one of many contributing factors. >Every morning my husband listens to sports radio. Have you ever listened to >sports radio? Its basic premise is guys yelling at each other. Not talking, >yelling. And calling each other idiots. I'm not exagerating. It is constant, >stupid male bellowing. And it sets my teeth on edge. My husband can happily >listen for hours, I swear he finds it soothing. Within 5 minutes I start >hyperventelating. I'm a sports *fan,* and I can't stand sports talk radio. I think previously sane journalists and broadcasters who have taken up that calling (Mike Lupica, for instance) automatically lose 40-60 IQ points, along with the ability to modulate their voices. Part of the problem is inherent to the format: since they thrive on controversy, *everything* gets turned into a controversy, and shades of grey don't survive in a black and white world. Just see how they treat Rob Neyer or Bill James or anyone who tries to insert some rational, nuanced explanations into the discussion. We were in Cincinnati to see the last three Reds games played in Riverfront Stadium, and when the Friday game got rained out and rescheduled as a separate-admission doubleheader for Saturday (and Friday's fireworks got moved to the already-scheduled Saturday night game), as we were sitting in the parking lot listening to WLW's broadcast while waiting for traffic to thin out, the host wanted to turn *that* into a controversy ("the Friday people who bought tickets to see the fireworks got screwed! The people who wanted to see all three Reds games *and* Saturday's OSU-UC football game, THEY GOT SCREWED!"). I mean, what the heck else were the Reds supposed to do? It wasn't like there were any future dates at the stadium they could have used... :-) >For me rap and hip hop, whether done by black or white artists is like >paying to listen to sports radio. The only difference is the guys yell in >rhythem. Oh where oh where did the music go, oh where oh where can it be? ... but I can't wholly agree with this. The more yell-riffic stuff I could live without. Heck, though they weren't rap per se, I hated Rage Against the Machine, even though I agreed with a lot of their politics and think Tom Morello is a super guitarist -- I just wanted Zack to shut the hell up and stop yelling at me! But when the rhymes are smart and the samples are happening (lots of P.E., Digital Underground, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, and lots more), it doesn't feel as tuneless and abrasive to me. >be ignored or denied. Its part of our makeup. I can't begin to express what >early Springsteen concerts felt like. It was a total mass(well, we're >talking clubs here so a small mass)catharsysis, every marginal kid who felt >like a freak affirming their worth. And, short of Nazi Nurenburg rallies, >thats worthwhile. I love Springsteen, and while I was too young to see him in those days, I've seen him eight times (and Clarence's detached retina just screwed me out of a 9th show), and those were all stupendous performances, even if six of them had to take place in arenas. (The other two were solo/acoustic shows in '96, and the art had the upper hand over the communion -- which might explain why the '96 show at the Ryman is my favorite.) >:-). Too bad we've lost that usage, it was a good one. BTW--I am ignorant >of grunge. It coencided with giving birth and the first 5 years of my >daughters life. But what filtered thru of Nirvana I liked, so I figure >someday the time will be right to dive headlong in. I've touched on this before, but Nirvana, despite blowing apart the barriers that had kept "grunge" out of the mainstream, really doesn't fit. You can tell that Kurt has listened to Sabbath and Zep, but Nirvana's melodic smarts, riffery, and overall sensibility has far more to do with the '80s "underground" (R.E.M., Replacements, et al) than with hard rock, or their more identifiably "grunge" peers. Soungarden, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, etc., all had much more of a metal/classic rock feel, and I don't even want to dignify the bandwagon jumpers (Stone Temple Pilots, Seven Mary Three, and even today's Vedder-alikes like Creed and Lifehouse -- who knew that Eddie Vedder's once-distinctive and apparently idiosyncratic vocal stylings would be so easy to imitate?) with a discussion of them. All of which is to say that Nirvana may not be representative of "grunge," and you may not like the other bands, though it might mean that you'd like the Melvins and possibly Mudhoney... later, Miles ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #402 ********************************