From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #398 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, November 25 2002 Volume 11 : Number 398 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Tilbrook live on the airwaves (and Internet) [Miles Goosens ] Soft Boys in Guitar Player [Eric Loehr ] a kinda peeved inch [drew ] Re: Passion Play ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #397 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: those fabulous eighties [Michael R Godwin ] Re: those fabulous eighties [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Turtles and Eddie Cochran [Michael R Godwin ] Re: The World We Live in, and Live in Hamburg (not really) [Ken Weingold ] Re: The World We Live in, and Live in Hamburg (not really) ["matt sewell"] Miller/Monster/Monkees/Mitchell/Mould/McGuinn/Moogs ["Rex.Broome" ] Soft Boys History [brian@lazerlove5.com] Broome vs. Broome in no-holds-barred tagteam grudge match! (WARNING: SC*TT M*LLER CONTENT) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeff] Guitar heroes? / Another band to hate! ["Rex.Broome" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:36:35 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Tilbrook live on the airwaves (and Internet) I'm leaving in about 90 minutes to get my in-person seat for this one, but Glen Tilbrook's show tonight in Nashville will be broadcast on WRLT as part of their "Nashville Sunday Nights" series. http://www.wrlt.com, opener at 8, Glen at 9. I *think* I've got the VCR rigged up to get the show while I'm out (dang, I need a mini-disc player!)... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:03:33 -0500 From: Eric Loehr Subject: Re: but wait, there's more (Kinks) Jill wrote: >What's more, even though the American TTB is a double CD, there are things >on the British single CD that are NOT on the American version (Autumn >Almanac comes to mind, but I'm at work without my Kinks kollektion). Eric >thinks that Ray just liked the title; I think he knew that Kinks geeks >like me and everyone else at the Kinks Preservation Society would buy both >even if they were different by only one song. Do we know anyone like that >over here...... Oh, I agree completely -- but I do think that Ray's got a couple of other songs by that name floating around in his head, if not in the studio vaults. Miles -- maybe you remember the song from one of Ray's many solo "Storyteller"shows? -- I'm sure that's where the song first appeared. Eric, who bought both versions of the TTB album as soon as they were available. p.s. to Jill -- the Preservation show I saw was at the Sanderson Theatre in Springfield, MA. > >American TTB came out in October 1996. Of that I am sure. > >Jill, wondering where Eric saw Preservation (but that was long, long ago) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:11:26 -0500 From: Eric Loehr Subject: Soft Boys in Guitar Player Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone's mentioned that there's a short Soft Boys article in the January 2003 issue of Guitar Player magazine; there's a picture of Robyn and one of Kimberly, with about a half page of text -- not really worth buying the whole issue for (unless you're also interested in the articles on Santana, Dave Gilmour, or Mark Knopfler). I'll try to type in the text in the next day or two -- there are a couple of good RH quotes. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:09:01 -0800 (PST) From: drew Subject: a kinda peeved inch > From: Eb > > Random note: I finally saw the Hedwig & the Angry Inch film the other > night, after hearing all kinds of good things about it. WOW, that > was...not good. I don't think I can say a single favorable thing > about this film, beyond praising the "bravery" of the lead > performance. A mess. You're not the only one. Most of the people I know loved it. For my part, you see one transgender/drag queen film and you've pretty much seen them all. I watched the extras in hopes that the origins of the show would lend some weight to the whole affair but they just confirmed that it was as shallow as it seemed. Still, the Billy Corgan-esque love interest was pretty sexy, and a few of the scenes were fun. And jesus christ on a vespa, that music sucked ass, or more accurately the lyrics did. > From: Eb > > >I can't think of any other > >bands I want to dis today. :) > > How about Foghat? Heard of them, never heard them. But I'm sure you guessed that. > From: Jeff Dwarf > > drew wrote: > > My god, you're insane! > > And you're not? "That's Mr. Jenkins, he's another idiot." > Not "No Surprises," but "Lucky" and "The Tourist" are both a bit slight > AFAIC, especially compared to the start of the album (I always think of > OKC as more of a strong starter than finisher). Yeah -- I can't agree. If anything I'm even farther gone while singing those at the top of my lungs in the car. I can't think of a single thing wrong with them. > I wouldn't say there are any songs in particular on either I > particularly dislike -- "Lucky" is probably my least favorite of the 24 > though. Wow. It reduces me to tears. No accounting for taste. - -- drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/~drew/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:29:43 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: Passion Play >They actually eventually recovered from that whole lousy late '80s phase >-damn that Ian Anderson and his personality changes! Catfish Rising even >addresses it - there's a song on it with a prominent refrain that goes "I'm >turning again, yes, I'm turning again". CR has some incredibly lame tracks >on it but also some of their best tracks in at least 10 years - the songs >"Thinking 'Round Corners" and "Roll Yer Own" alone make the album worth >having. An other addition to the list of stuff to hear then. What about the other post Knave stuff? I don't recall hearing any of it, it's just that after hearing Knave I wasn't excited enough to keep up with them. On a related note and one that I completely forgot about in my first post is the EMI remasters. I had a look a little while back on Amazon.co.uk for a copy of Heavy Horses and got quite confused looking at their Tull listings. There seem to be ovelapping issues on Chrysalis (1998 onwards) and EMI (2001 onwards). The EMI badged stuff is mostly labled [ORIGINAL RECORDING REMASTERED] and often seems to have more bits on the ends of the albums. As I haven't yet got around to getting cd versions of most of my Tull collection ( I got a SFTW cos my album was stolen by a goth in the mid eighties) do you know which are the prefered issues of the classic Tull albums and will this EMI series become complete - it doesn't seem to yet include Heavy Horses, Stormwatch and a few others that I would like. Brian _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:11:26 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #397 >> >little known fact: The Monkees were the first pop band to use a Moog on any >> >of their recordings, on the 1967 song "Daily nightly". Seems Mickey Dolenz >> >is an incredible technophile, and knew the good Dr Moog. So you could also >> >say that the Monkees were synth innovators, too. >> >> Wow. I always thought the first use of a synth in pop music was Lucky Man, >> narrowly beating out Baba O'Riley. I must investigate further. Somebody >> must've changed the past on me again. > >No, "Star Collector" (as someone else already corrected) preceded both of those >two. As did "Here Comes the Sun" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," by some >Liverpool >act. I can't recall if any of those odd keyboard sounds on _Strange Days_ >by the >Doors were synths, but they might have been. There's also a track whose title I >forget on the Tommy James & the Shondells album with "Crimson & Clover" on >it that >features synth. >Almost all of those early Moogs were programmed (back when someone else >had to do >this) by Paul Beaver. Google his name, and see what you find. Hate to argue, but according to the booklet with the "Listen to the band" boxed set the Moog was used on Daily Nightly - which was recorded three days before "Star collector". It was only the third Moog Synthesiser ever built, too... It's what made all the whooshing bleeping fills between the guitar lines. Paul Beaver worked with Micky Dolenz on Star Collecter, but Micky himself did the playing on Daily Nightly. To quote Pete Tork: "[Micky's] Moog part on DN was brilliant - another example of his intense creativity. He just made the Moog stand up and speak in a way Paul Beaver couldn't - Paul thought it was a flute or something. I went to a party at Micky's house once with a friend and I said 'There's the famous Moog synthesiser - Micky's one of the better players around' Micky said, 'Yeah, but it's even better if it plays itself.' He pushed a few knobs and turned the thing on, then walked away from it. It honked and beeped and did things on an absolutely random basis, never repeating itself. He was really out there, Dolenz!" >Gerry Goffin and Carole King. But it's not in 5/4 - although I think there's >another Monkees track that has a few bars in 5. Actually, that Tommy James >track >I'm thinking of has a section in 5/4. "Changes," that's its title. I'm a sucker for tracks in 5/4 (I could link two current threads and mention "Living in the past" or "North sea oil" here...) and 7/4, too. weird rhythms develop with odd time signatures. Some other examples containing 5/4 (excluding, of course, the obvious Dave Brubeck number "Take 5") are: Light flight (Pentangle - alternates 5/4 and 7/4 with a 3/4 chorus!); A letter to you (Sneaky Feelings); New world (Soul Asylum); Rainbo conversation (Stereolab); Las Vegas Dealer (Gomez); Rant & Rave (Joe Jackson); Indiscipline (King Crimson); War crimes (Specials); 3 love (Ultrasound); and of course Lalo Sciffren's original theme to the TV series "Mission Impossible"! Some great 7/4s include Solsbury Hill (Peter Gabriel), the verse of All you need is love (Der Bittels); Glass (our man Robyn); You'll have to go sideways (our man Robyn and some friends); The man who sailed around his soul(XTC)and Money (Pink Floyd). But best time signatures of all are probably Neil Young's "Words", part of which is in 11/8, and Pete Shelley's "I generate a feeling" - in 13/8 time! James (willing to be corrected on some of those time signatures...) James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:05:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: those fabulous eighties > Quoting Michael R Godwin : > > WRT the 1980s, I think Bath University must have been in a different > > universe from the people whose lists I've been reading. All that my > > postgrad pals played was (1) FGTH (incessantly, to the point of screaming > > monotony) > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Uh, "Fuck Goddamned Tory Hathead"? "Forget God - Toot Horns"? "Fred Gordon, the > Hegemon"? Like it - Horns is well on the right track. However, Frankie Goes To Hollywood were so huge in the UK in the 80s that I didn't realise that you might not recognise this abbreviation. They sold absolute sea-container loads of records. Did they really not make that Top 80s list? > Or maybe just an abbreviation for an archaic form of third person verb? "He > feggeth unto me, and was forgiven"? > > --Jeff, who can't figure out who "TFF" is either. That's easier to understand - but Tears For Fears were very big at one time, too. (Mind you, I remember when Curt and Roland were still called Graduate...) - - Mike Godwin PS The only one of those 80s records I've got is 'Underwater Moonlight'; but I do have three copies! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:18:39 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: those fabulous eighties Quoting Michael R Godwin : > Like it - Horns is well on the right track. However, Frankie Goes To > Hollywood were so huge in the UK in the 80s that I didn't realise that you > might not recognise this abbreviation. They sold absolute sea-container > loads of records. Did they really not make that Top 80s list? I don't think they did - probably on the grounds that no one listens to them anymore. (That Trevor Horn production *really* dates.) I didn't recognize the abbreviation because there wasn't enough context for it - and I suppose it's fair to say that Frankie is way down on my list of bands that often come to mind. Even if I'm thinking of the eighties. > > --Jeff, who can't figure out who "TFF" is either. > > That's easier to understand - but Tears For Fears were very big at one > time, too. Again, context... My ROT is to never leave the abbreviation standing alone in a post unless it's already been mentioned, or if it's just glaringly obvious (like, in a discussion about several Robyn albums, IODOT, say). I like one or two TFF songs... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman .uh, "rule of thumb" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Turtles and Eddie Cochran Brian, have you ever been to one of those Eddie Cochran roadside vigils that the fans hold every year? Not really my sort of thing. I once met a rocker in a bar who had seen that last concert in Bristol; and apparently Georgie Fame was in the backing band (Cochran introduced him to Ray Charles records). But the only film footage of Eddie I've ever seen is in 'The Girl Can't Help It', where he appears on TV playing "20 Flight Rock" and the great Edmond O'Brien snarls - "hey, that kid can't sing! If he can be a star, anyone can be a star" - or words to that effect. On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Oh - and "Elenore" by the Turtles has a synth! What does it do, Jeff? I know that record extremely well and I've never heard anything obviously synthetic on it. I expect you found out why I abbreviated Frankie Goes To Hollywood the first time you typed it. What is the Longest Band Name? Little Anthony and the Imperials? Elias and his Zig Zag Jive Flutes? - - Mike Godwin n.p. Rock around the Rockpile Blues ("One ROCK! Two ROCKS!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:09:26 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: The World We Live in, and Live in Hamburg (not really) On Sat, Nov 23, 2002, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > Me too. In fact, I ultimately like Sugar more than I like Husker Du, > just because I've never really liked many of Grant Hart's songs, so > when I listen to the Du, it feels like I'm always having to skip every > other song. I'll go prepare for my stoning for heresy. Again. I think some of Hart's stuff in Husker Du is fantastic. Definitely a contrast to Mould's, though, since Hart is a lot poppier. I'm listening to Books About UFOs right now to remind me. There is also some great Nova Mob stuff. The Last Days of Pompeii I think is a really strong album. Btw, my favorite recordings tend to be BBC Sessions, since they are in the studio, but live. Usually brings out what the band can really do. Sugar is no exception. There are three of them on the If I Can't Change Your Mind red CD single. Great great stuff. Very intense version of The Slim, as well as a nice raw version of If I Can't Change Your Mind, and lastly a great studio version of Barbe's Where Diamonds Are Halos. That's actually a Buzz Hungry song, but I think the Buzz Hungry version absolutely pales in comparison to Sugar's. I don't really like anything from Buzz Hungry, actually. OTOH, Barbe's first band, Mercyland, I always refer to as The Best Band You Never Heard Of. > James Dignan wrote: > > OK Computer isn't even Radiohead's best album! The Bends is, IMHO, > > far better. > > Reason 345,094 why I've always like you best!! Amen. OK Computer sorta > peters out towards the end, whereas The Bends keeps on soaring. both > very good albums, but The Bends is truly transcendant. I agree here as well. I'm not a huge Radiohead fan, but I love The Bends. I've heard the others, but nothing has made as much of an impression. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:27:57 +0000 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: The World We Live in, and Live in Hamburg (not really) Never been that keen on Husker Du or Sugar, but an old housemate had Ecce Homo by Grant Hart, a live accoustic recording of various songs including some by HD, and I thought it was fantastic... still do... My view of Radiohead is somewhat compromised by being personally attacked by them on record... Cheers Matt >From: Ken Weingold >Reply-To: Ken Weingold >I think some of Hart's stuff in Husker Du is fantastic. Definitely a >contrast to Mould's, though, since Hart is a lot poppier. I'm >listening to Books About UFOs right now to remind me. There is also >some great Nova Mob stuff. The Last Days of Pompeii I think is a >really strong album. > >I agree here as well. I'm not a huge Radiohead fan, but I love The >Bends. I've heard the others, but nothing has made as much of an >impression. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:36:57 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Miller/Monster/Monkees/Mitchell/Mould/McGuinn/Moogs Eb: >>Do you even *like* Miller's lyrics at all, beyond whatever >>nudge-nudge, in-joke allusions they might include? Or is the latter >>all that really matters in songwriting? You could call them in-jokes, or you could call them an alternative or nonstandard set of concerns or idioms. Not unlike Robyn's. And in the same way, your subjective like or dislike of his work will probably be contingent on your feelings about those concerns. So yeah, I like them, most of the time. >>Once again, this thread reminds me of Miller fans' baffling >>zealousness. Hell, I'm not even THAT big of a fan of Miller... what's baffling is why you feel so compelled to be such a dick on this subject, and at such length. Entrapment, I say. Like telling a guy his clothes look gay, and when he objects, calling him a homophobe. I guess that's one way to get your kicks. ________ Drew on Monster: >>I love it all (with the possible exception of "I Don't Sleep, I Dream"). Hands down my favorite track on that record. Sigh... ___________ Ken: >>I remember reading something years ago in Spin by (I >>think) Elvis Mitchell about how when he was in high school, having to >>furtively hide his CvB, R.E.M., and Replacements albums I love Elvis Mitchell... I first knew him as a radio personality and remember being mildly surprised to find out he was black. He was briefly considered for the Gene Siskel spot opposite Roger Ebert... that woulda been essential viewing. >>I should also mention his cover of Thompson's Turning of the Tide on >>the Richard Thompson tribute album. Bob does it with X as his >>backing band. Great song. Man, how did I miss that one? Wow. Damn. Cool. _________ Eclipse: >>i thought i was the one who spent most of the 80's listening to REM and holding >>a not-so-secret love for the Monkees close to my heart. "one of us, one of us!" ;) Count me in! I bet there's a lot of us around here. ________ Mike: >>Wow. I always thought the first use of a synth in pop music was Lucky Man, >>narrowly beating out Baba O'Riley. Just to relate this directly back to the very similar "who raga-rocked first?" thread... it wasn't released until the '80's but McGuinn recorded a track called "Moog Raga" (which was exactly what it sounds like) around the time of "Notorious Byrds Brothers"... and I think there's some Moog on the album proper as well. Dunno how that stacks up datewise vs. the Monkees track, but it can't be far off. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:53:13 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: My '90's Total Finally looked at the Pitchfork '90's List. Yikes. Even with no Radiohead or Built to Spill albums, I still have 49 of them! Weird thing is, some of them are among my definite "guilty pleasures" of the decade and a few are even in my "why do I hang onto THAT" pile... for example, I expect truly hip people to punch me for have any Blur records. Walt Mink... saw them open for fIREHOSE once, wasn't especially impressed, heard a lot of hype on them half a year later, and then nothing. Who knew they even put out two albums? Loveless, though, is my standard answer for my "all-time favorite album", so there is that. I have more '90's records than I realize because I got a lot of freebies and cheapies during the bulk of the decade, and hung out with more people into "new" music back then. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:25:14 +0000 (GMT) From: brian@lazerlove5.com Subject: Soft Boys History Now completed by Kimberly: http://thesoftboys.com/history.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:30:10 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Broome vs. Broome in no-holds-barred tagteam grudge match! (WARNING: SC*TT M*LLER CONTENT) Quoting "Rex.Broome" : > Eb: > >>Do you even *like* Miller's lyrics at all, beyond whatever > >>nudge-nudge, in-joke allusions they might include? Or is the latter > >>all that really matters in songwriting? Yes; no. > >>Once again, this thread reminds me of Miller fans' baffling > >>zealousness. This is good: what this thread reminds *me* of is Miller non-fans' baffling zealousness. I mean, if we defend Miller enthusiastically, we're overzealous; if we're more nuanced and acknowledge Scott's faults, then we get asked whether we "even *like* Miller's lyrics," etc. What's really weird, Eb, is your apparent inability to acknowledge that others' tastes differ from yours. You dislike his voice; others don't. You think his melodies and phrasing are clunky; others don't. You think his lyrics are a hodgepodge of puns, allusions, and pretentious references; others don't. Why not just leave it at expressing those opinions clearly (which you can do perfectly well) and leave the ad hominem and ridiculous assertions of insincerity out of it? > Mike: > >>Wow. I always thought the first use of a synth in pop music was Lucky Man, > >>narrowly beating out Baba O'Riley. I think Emerson tried to spread this rumor - you still see it in print, particularly among ELP fans. But it ain't so. The Monkees, so far, appear to have the edge (unless Del Shannon (!) does...), with two tracks from 1967. Everyone else (Byrds, T. James, Turtles - maybe Doors?) dates from '68. The Beatles' stuff was in '69 - I think "Lucky Man" came out in '70, although it may well have been recorded in '69. When did Wendy (ne Walter) Carlos' _Switched-On Bach_ come out? he said, too lazy to look it up, having looked up a zillion other factoids on this issue already. Oh, someone (Mike G.?) asked where in "Elenore" the synth is. It's on the third (I think) verse, playing a countermelody, with kind of an oboe/flute-ish timbre. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism np: Macha s/t ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:33:30 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Guitar heroes? / Another band to hate! Michael Wells: >>Eddie Van Halen, Alex Lifeson, Rik Emmett, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck (forget >>to add "Guitar Shop"), Stevie Ray Vaughan, Vivian Campbell, Ritchie >>Blackmore, Angus Young, Yngwie Malmsteen, and Frank Zappa. To start >>with. Well, they would certainly play more notes than Eb's team. I have a few records with two of these guys on them, when they were teenagers, and in the same band, but... uhhh... you like the Soft Boys? Really? _____________ Eclipse: > let's think of some other bands to hate! personally, i can't stand > Rush - but that might be too much of a gimme. :) Oooh, I got a band to hate, and it's not un-related to Rush. And that band is... System of a Down. Because they have a new record and are for some reason more highly regarded than their nu-metal peers. And that reason is that they are Armenian and have somehow convinced everyone that their music is deeply influenced by Armenian folk music or something, and now critics like to point that out, as if they noticed it themselves due to their intimate familiarity with Armenian folk melodies and not because that's what it says in their press kit. Plus their name is crap. Also, it cracks me up how I can't hear Noel Gallagher without him mention how System of a Down are the worst band ever, and not in a "trying to start something way"... he seem genuinely incredulous about their badness! I haven't heard an Oasis record in years but I like Noel as a curmudgeon more and more all the time since he's fallen from his lofty throne. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:44:38 +0000 From: "Montauk Daisy" Subject: Another fine Mess Stewart: >all Emily Dickinson poems fit the tune of "Yellow Rose Of Texas". Its called hymn meter. Most Dickenson poems can be sung to hymn tunes. - ------------------------ Eclipse: >sigh .. i probably just wish that i do. normally i work the exceptionally >sucky >shift of 2:30-11p. after that, dayshift kills me. Just hope they're paying you enough. Must reek rabbits with your habits;-) >let's think of some other bands to hate! Oh Goody! I have 3. How Pitchfork has managed to overlook them I dont know. Phred's Monkey On His Back are just a bunch of pretensious wankers who should be banished to life-long imprisonment in anthropology grad school. Turnkey to Terror think they have the market in pathetic Satanism tied up. They don't, they're too pathetic for it. If they're going to wear really cheap, unaesthetic latex and use fancy rope tethers on stage, the least they could do is learn to tie a proper knot. Sheesh, its embarressing, regular old slipknots. But then judging from their guitar playing skills, they're so low on manuel dexterity they should hire apes to play for them. Do you know what I hate about Imelda Marcuse and her new albumn, "One-Dimensional Shoes." Its not that she's selling herself as the latest avatar of the All-Sensitive Divine Cunt( You dont believe me?) Its what she does with her hair. Did I call it hair? Honey--dreds just look stupid on whitegirls with fake nose-rings, scary nails and a very expensive dye job. And really, I don't want to know more about your heartbreak of psoriousess. I know its taken great courage for you to have come out of the closet, telling the world all about your scabby elbows and ickey scaling knees(thou Ive noticed all your photos have been airbrushed.) But do me a favor. Get back in that closet. Thats what its there for! Is that what you mean, Eclipse:-? - ----------------- HoppedupongoofballsStetter: >Now you're talking! Webster's is *the* dictionary. Anybody who regards the American Heritage's prescriptivist pap as gospel is a >fool. Unless your talking Webster's 2nd unabridged, them be fighten words. Lets see, I got my glove here somewhere. Im looking, just keep standing there, dont go away or anything till I slap you. Its here, s-somewhere. Ahhh. Here it is. Alright. Now smell the glove! Ill meet you at dawn in the town square. (One of my many beefs against my workplace is the fact that they give us a - --college-- edition of Websters to do ref with. A frickin fuckin --college-- edition. Is that not pathetic? Plus I have to send people to another dept for info out of the OED.(Kay starts to snivle, then cry.) And the unabridged Websters they give us awkward access to is the 3rd edition. Plus they give us the Random unabridged 2nd--but we dont need both, now do we?(Kay is crying hysterically at this point, and throwing her dirty tissues at Gene.) No! All we need is the American Heritage, Websters unabridged 2, Random 2 and the OED. Is that asking TOO MUCH?(Kay asks, wailing and hicopping on snot,) The reason I like perscriptive dictionaries is that they give you more freedom. They tell you the traditional rules and then you can choose to break them or not. I like this. It gives me more information with which to make my choice. And just FTR, I disclike blind perscriptivism as much as its opposite. Oh wait, I just agreed with you, didnt I? Nevermind - -------------------- Stewart on Webster, >shame the sucker couldn't spell... You mean, he -wouldnt- spell like brainwashed, pretensious, Anglesized twits, now dont you;-? - ------------------- Mike: >It's funny, I think a lot of my contemporaries make criticisms of rap are >very similar to our grandparents' generation's criticisms of rock >in >the'50s. Now sonny, be polite and Ill give you some milk with those cookies. - -------------- Jeff D to James: >>Reason 345,094 why I've always like you best!! We all like James best. Lets vote him president of Feg world. Even if he dosnt -quite- understand the sublimity of American dictionaries;-) - -------------- Kay, who is honored to be a regular on Romper Room, a word geek AND a lover of messes like Hedwig and the Angry Itch. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #398 ********************************