From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #393 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, November 22 2002 Volume 11 : Number 393 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Pitchfork '90s list [Miles Goosens ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #392 ["Eclipse Tuliphead" ] New Order boot, Pitchforking the 90s, and another "SP" band [Christopher ] Damn you guys post a lot (part 1) ["Rex.Broome" ] where is? [Jill Brand ] RE: camp van beethoven ["Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" ] Re: New Order boot, Pitchforking the 90s, and another "SP" band [Ken Wein] Re: One more cup of coffee for the road.... (50% JT, 50% RJ) ["Michael E.] Re: Damn you guys post a lot (part 1) [Ken Weingold ] complete strangers [drew ] Looking for Sir Post-a-Lot (part 2) ["Rex.Broome" ] Once more unto the Corgan ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: the miller's tale [Aaron Mandel ] RE: camp van beethoven ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: One more cup of coffee for the road.... [The Great Quail Subject: Re: Pitchfork '90s list At 11:49 AM 11/22/2002 -0500, Ken Weingold wrote: >Sugar should be higher up. How could I leave Sugar off the list of acts that contributed to the Great Divergence? I really liked Husker Du -- not as much as I liked R.E.M. or Midnight Oil or Robyn or the Minutemen, but they were right up there. And I liked Bob's first two solo albums, esp. BLACK SHEETS OF RAIN, which is just a brutal, brutal thing (even if he does pretty much rewrite "Shoot Out the Lights" for "The Hanging Tree," the sound is still mighty enough to work). But Sugar -- oh man. I can't even remember a single song title or melody, and I own all of their albums. It was like the sprawling Husker Du mess o'sound suddenly got put through the mill and came out as a bland, undifferentiated mass. The tunes weren't as tuneful, the noise wasn't as noisy. Probably my biggest disappointment of the '90s, Sugar. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:21:32 -0000 From: "Eclipse Tuliphead" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #392 > From: Ken Weingold > Incidentally, I have a really good New Order bootleg from 1985 on > vinyl that I tranferred to CD and then to MP3. IMO it sounds > fantastic. If anyone wants, I can put it somewhere. Great setlist, > too: > > Atmosphere > Dreams Never End > Procession > Sunrise > Lonesome Tonight > Weirdo > 586 > The Perfect Kiss > She's Lost Control oh! me, me! this sounds delicious. still trying to stay awake, Eclipse - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eclipse eclipse@tuliphead.com Kindness towards all things is the true religion. - Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:39:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: those fabulous eighties On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > I can't tell you how much I would have liked the chance to become sick > of New Order, Prefab Sprout, Aztec Camera, and R.E.M.! * There was one very bass-heavy New Order thing (Blue Monday, I believe) which was played constantly, along with 'Relax' and 'Two Tribes' by FGTH which had those revolting loathesome Trevor Horn over-productions (I still have no idea how anyone can hear this kind of thing without getting a headache). I didn't mean that I was sick of the other acts, they were just a bit too Steely Dan for me. > If I had gone to a larger/more urbane place for my undergrad years, > chances are that a lot more of the OPP (other people's playlists!) would > have been the same as Mr. Godwin's (sans Orange Juice, which never > really broke here. Did they even have a U.S. record contract? * According to http://www.btinternet.com/~birdpoo/ojhist.htm their big UK hit "Rip it up" was Feb 83, and they split very early in 85, so they had a shorter run than I would have guessed even in the UK. Edwyn Collins subsequently had a hit with "I've never known a girl like you before" in 1996. Other acts which some, though not all, of the people I knew in the 80s were keen on included Martin Stephenson and the Daintees, Prince ("Purple Rain" and "Raspberry Beret", not much else) and Springsteen (not generally popular, but one or two people were fanatical about him). Down at the disco, all they played was that pompous Simple Minds thing (Bang, clang "hey hey hey hey" clang, bang "ooh yeah" - that one) and "A knife a fork a bottle and a cork, that's the way you spell New York". Plus "Boogie woogie bugle boy from Company B" and the Blues Brothers album... I agree with all the people who said that "East Side Story" is first rate, specially "Tempted". How many other lyrics include a baggage carousel? - - MRG PS Didn't birdpoo dip into this list recently? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: New Order boot, Pitchforking the 90s, and another "SP" band On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Eclipse Tuliphead wrote: > > Incidentally, I have a really good New Order bootleg from 1985 on > > vinyl that I tranferred to CD and then to MP3. IMO it sounds > > fantastic. If anyone wants, I can put it somewhere. Great setlist, > > too: [snip] > > oh! me, me! this sounds delicious. Me too! Please do put it up. > still trying to stay awake, Again, me too.... I own 23 out of Pitchfork's top 100 of the 90s, plus five or six more that I've collected in mp3 form. This relatively low number is due equally to a divergence in tastes between me and Pitchfork, and a rather constrained CD budget. Oh, and I like _Mellon Collie_. Not only that, but I was cold to the Smashing Pumpkins until about 1997, didn't like the songs I'd heard, and was put off by reports of Corgan's obnoxious personality. Then I finally found myself intrigued by _Mellon Collie_ a couple of years after it was released; and when I broke down and really listened to it, I loved it. So I was actually WON OVER by the album. You may all laugh now. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:52:24 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Damn you guys post a lot (part 1) Jim: >>Like Dorian Gray. I keep buying the Church, putting them on the >>shelf. They stay dull. I have similar feelings and a similar illness (although as I mentioned I like "Hologram" a lot). However I have somewhat of a higher regard for their earlier work. It's dated poorly, especially in the drum-sound arena (and the guitars don't have the ring I remember on, say, "Seance"), but I rank "Heyday" as "Starfish"'s equal, and still see many merits to "The Blurred Crusade". And I like to put on the first record and rock out, because it sounds to me like what I wish the Cars had sounded like and I can pretend that it was really popular and everybody sings along with "Chrome Injury" whenever it comes on the Flashback Lunch on KROQ instead of "Nowhere Girl" or whatever. _______________ Eb: >>Uh...given the relative popularity of the two artists, I think the >>"most of us" is definitely on my side. The "us" we see here was not meant to be "the music-buying population of America" but I suspect you know that. >>I don't see much questioning of Corgan's melodic powers You do now! (raises hand) And based on my experience of live shows (in person and recorded) I totally question the guy's pitch. By the way, I DO see all this stuff as subjective. Usually that's not worth mentioning, but when the argument involves hard-and-fast letter-grades being assigned to an artist or his/her body of work, maybe a disclaimer is in order. ____________ Gene: >>I thought that Jim Thirlwell was the end-all and be-all, and that Merzbow was >>actually entertaining. Heh. I saw Merzbow at All Tomorrow's Parties (along with everyone else I was basically attempting to reserve a floor spot for Sleater-Kinney). I had never heard him but was told his sound was reminiscent of the Boredoms. After his set, I turned to my friend Mike and said, "That didn't sound too much like the Boredoms.". He replied, "Not "boredoms" with an "s" at the end..." ________ Ken: >>anyone into New Order who doesn't have it, pick up Movement. Dreams Never >>End is worth it alone. More to the point, anyone NOT into New Order should try it. That's the record (and song) that made a true fan of me (along with Galaxie 500's version of "Ceremonie"). *CONTRARIAN ALERT*: I pretty much like that early period of New Order better than any single Joy Division record. - -Rex "you got your canon in my contrarianism" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:01:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: but wait, there's more It was written > >I haven't been this disconcerted about when and where a piece of music >belonged chronologically or physically since I discovered that my import of >the Kinks' TO THE BONE didn't have the title track -- even though my wife >and I clearly remember hearing the song "To the Bone" and commenting on >specifics about it. I think someone is fucking with the space-time >continuum again. and Eric responded: The import album To the Bone came out first (don't ask me for the date -- my sense of time is way too impressionistic to remember stuff like that); I think that Ray just liked the title (in something I read -- maybe the liner notes -- he claims to have written at least three songs with that title) and wrote the song to be included on the later-released U.S. double CD, which is an expanded version of the live-in-studio stuff along with two new songs (To the Bone, and Animal). and Jill is adding: What's more, even though the American TTB is a double CD, there are things on the British single CD that are NOT on the American version (Autumn Almanac comes to mind, but I'm at work without my Kinks kollektion). Eric thinks that Ray just liked the title; I think he knew that Kinks geeks like me and everyone else at the Kinks Preservation Society would buy both even if they were different by only one song. Do we know anyone like that over here...... American TTB came out in October 1996. Of that I am sure. Jill, wondering where Eric saw Preservation (but that was long, long ago) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:13:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: where is? Where is this Pitchfork list anyway. I think I missed the original post with the URL. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:18:12 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: RE: camp van beethoven [Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)] >> To me, "widely, commercially popular music" generally means what I, is >a >> move about in my little personal Mikeycosm, hear on the radio and TV >when >> I'm not going out of my way to look for the "alternative" - college >radio, >> highly specialized or narrowly focused formats, etc., and includes >> anything I might hear a randomly on the street or in a club that I >didn't > go to specifically for a certain band or type of music. > >You really feel that way? Or are you just reading from some sort of >hipster guidebook? Your comment sounds snide, and if you take some sort of offense to my comment above, well, sorry, but looking it over I can't see any possible thing to be offended about. Or does it bother you that somebody considers "commercially popular music" to be the music he generally overhears in in daily life that he didn't go out of his way to hear? I don't understand why. What's up with the attitude? I mean, come on, all the smug, opinionated shit I post on here, and you're finding offense in *this*? Sorry if I came off like a "hipster", I'll try harder come off like a dork. [Eclipse Tuliphead] >> Did you know that in 2000, turntables outsold guitars? > >this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. most of my good friends are DJs >these days. where's this statistic from, btw? Saw it last year in a music magazine, probably "Electronic Musician". [Jeffrey with 2 Fs]: >[whoever]'s post is much funnier if it's read in the voice of Ren Hoek, the >dyspeptic chihuahua from _Ren & Stimpy_. That's a great trick. I'm going to use that. Often. Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:19:11 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: RE: camp van beethoven [Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc)] >> To me, "widely, commercially popular music" generally means what I, is >a >> move about in my little personal Mikeycosm, hear on the radio and TV >when >> I'm not going out of my way to look for the "alternative" - college >radio, >> highly specialized or narrowly focused formats, etc., and includes >> anything I might hear a randomly on the street or in a club that I >didn't > go to specifically for a certain band or type of music. > >You really feel that way? Or are you just reading from some sort of >hipster guidebook? Your comment sounds snide, and if you take some sort of offense to my comment above, well, sorry, but looking it over I can't see any possible thing to be offended about. Or does it bother you that somebody considers "commercially popular music" to be the music he generally overhears in in daily life that he didn't go out of his way to hear? I don't understand why. What's up with the attitude? I mean, come on, all the smug, opinionated shit I post on here, and you're finding offense in *this*? Sorry if I came off like a "hipster", I'll try harder come off like a dork. [Eclipse Tuliphead] >> Did you know that in 2000, turntables outsold guitars? > >this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. most of my good friends are DJs >these days. where's this statistic from, btw? Saw it last year in a music magazine, probably "Electronic Musician". [Jeffrey with 2 Fs]: >[whoever]'s post is much funnier if it's read in the voice of Ren Hoek, the >dyspeptic chihuahua from _Ren & Stimpy_. That's a great trick. I'm going to use that. Often. Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:18:32 -0500 From: "FS Thomas | at work" Subject: Re: where is? Jill, Here 'tis: http://pitchforkmedia.com/top/80s/ - -ferris. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:31:31 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: New Order boot, Pitchforking the 90s, and another "SP" band On Fri, Nov 22, 2002, Christopher Gross wrote: > > oh! me, me! this sounds delicious. > > Me too! Please do put it up. Sure. Anyone have any server space with good speed? My home system only has an up of about 15 k/sec. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:24:17 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: One more cup of coffee for the road.... (50% JT, 50% RJ) At 10:14 AM -0500 11/22/02, The Great Quail transmitted: >I happen to like "A Passion Play" very much I've never cared for Passion Play myself, although it does have one or two spectacular highlights ("What a mistake/I didn't take/a feather from his pillow" - that whole part blows me away.) But I used to subscribe to the St. Cleve Chronicle (the "fegmaniax@smoe.org" of Jethro Tull fandom) and one thing that always struck me is the almost total lack of consensus among Tull fans as to which were the good albums and which were the bad ones. I've heard people applaud "A", which I hate (except for "Black Sunday") and dis "Broadsword And The Beast", which I love (except for "Watching Me Watching You".) Anyway, they took a subscribership poll as to people's favorite Tull album, and "A Passion Play" came out on top. I've got to confess I've always wondered if someone stuffed the ballot boxes on that one, but I do know that Passion Play has definite, and vocal, supporters. Each to his own. My feeling is, when the 20th Anniversary box came out and they revealed that APP had been a rush job after the tapes from the album they had wanted to make turned out unusable, it didn't surprise me. I always kinda thought it sounded that way. On the whole, The "Chateau D'isaster Tapes" as released on Nightcap are not the best thing they ever did, but I myself generally like it better than "Passion Play", and "Scenario/Audition/No Rehearsal" is ridiculously great. At 3:45 PM +0000 11/22/02, Michael R Godwin transmitted: >The radio was playing 'Pretty Woman' this morning, and it occurred to me >that this Beatles riff was a funkier version of that. But who did invent >branding by riff? I'll start with Little Richard and 'Lucille'. Louis >Jordan's "Choo-choo-ch'boogie" is almost a riff, but swings too much >to be a real rock riff. I'm kicking myself for not being able to remember which one it is, but Robert Johnson did a form of this with a proto-"Chuck Berry"-type riff in either "Sweet home Chicago" or "I Believe I'll Dust My Broom". Mike - -- ======== We need love, expression, and truth. We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can fill the round hole of our spirit with the square peg of objective rationale. - Paul Eppinger At non effugies meos iambos - Gaius Valerius Catallus ("...but you won't get away from my poems.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:34:41 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Damn you guys post a lot (part 1) On Fri, Nov 22, 2002, Rex.Broome wrote: > Ken: > >>anyone into New Order who doesn't have it, pick up Movement. Dreams Never > >>End is worth it alone. > > More to the point, anyone NOT into New Order should try it. That's the > record (and song) that made a true fan of me (along with Galaxie 500's > version of "Ceremonie"). *CONTRARIAN ALERT*: I pretty much like that early > period of New Order better than any single Joy Division record. Funny you mention it. I get a lot of dirty look for this, but I do tend to prefer early New Order to Joy Division. I love Joy Division, even bought the box set, but don't listen to them nearly as much as New Order. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: drew Subject: complete strangers By the way, I brought Express and Earth, Sun, Moon to work today for reexamination. So far I'm enjoying Express a lot more than I remembered, but we'll see how it goes. > From: Jeff Dwarf > > I know this is heresy, but other than "Inbetween Days," "Kyoto Song," > and "A Night Like This," I've never really cared for THOTD. Even "Close > to Me" sounds flat without the horns. I enjoy the whole album (except I'm sick to death of "Inbetween Days" and "Close to Me"), but like I said it has never ranked as a favorite of mine. It just feels really lightweight. I bought The Top very late in my Cure collecting, but I love it -- probably because it's relatively new to me, it's one of the Cure records I play the most now. The last three songs on Bloodflowers are my favorites, and if they'd all been that good I would have been thrilled. I'm with you on Monster, by the way -- hated it at first, and then it became one of my favorite REM albums. As for New Order: Technique had to grow on me, too, and I do like it now, but it feels like high school in a vaguely unpleasant way to me now. The songs are fairly upbeat but there's a sense of enervated despair about the record to me. I like Peter Hook's vocals, actually, and I still own the goofy-ass first Revenge album partly for that reason. (I mean, if you ignore "Kiss the Chrome"...) > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > > I think distinctions need to be drawn between the overall quality > of a decade's music Or maybe not. :) > And wotzisname the singer is > utterly characterless. It's worse than you think, because there are in fact *two* singers. I greatly preferred Danny Ash for a while but I'm cool with David J now too. On the subject of race: in theory of course race doesn't matter, but whiteboy rappers are still relatively few and I have yet to hear the black REM. People tend to make music they grew up with and that they identify with. This may change over time, and I don't think it's a bad situation now and I don't think it will be bad if it changes. It's just reality. That said, I do have a pretty good image of what "whiteboy indie music" sounds like (hint: not Momus, white as that fella is) and while it may seem mildly racist I really couldn't give a fuck, to be perfectly honest. I feel fairly comfortable criticizing or at least stereotyping ethnic groups I happen to be part of, and if I'm adding to the burdens of whiteboy indie rockers everywhere by doing so, that's something I'll have to live with. Funny you should bring that up, though, because I don't think it's out of order to wonder what factors formed my tastes so that the music that speaks to me the most is predominantly made by middle-class white often-androphilic people, usually British. I feel confident that it wasn't a dice roll by God. And while I think it would be pretty loathsome to turn into a wigga or (FAR worse) one of those excruciatingly white guys who just LOVES the House of Blues, I do feel it can't do me any harm to at least try to investigate styles of music that haven't yet become overwhelmingly the province of musicians whose demographics are identical to my own. > From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) > > Kate Bush's "Never for ever"? Excuse me? Never For Ever is sublime. There are times it's my favorite album. More to the point, I don't remember ever hearing it dissed by the Kate Bush fans I used to pal around with. The underdog Kate Bush albums are Lionheart and The Red Shoes. - -- drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/~drew/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:52:07 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Looking for Sir Post-a-Lot (part 2) Jeff: >>I humbly suggest that _True Stories_ is a way weaker Talking Heads album than >>_Little Creatures_. I humbly suggest that, duh, anyone who believes otherwise is wrong. ______________ James: >>I'd suggest trying the two Jack Frost albums (Jack Frost, and Snow Job). Jack >>Frost is Steve Kilbey and the Go-betweens' GW McLennan. I've never heard Snow Job but I do recommend the self-titled album. It goes mushy about 2/3's in and never recovers, but it has some real lost classics. "Didn't Know Where I Was" and "Thought That I Was Over You" (which to this day frequently worms its way into my own impromptu acoustic sets) in particular. I heard that record before I ever heard any Go-Betweens-- odd, huh?-- and I was disappointed in the un-Churchiness of the guitars. Since then I've become a GB's fiend and like them WAY more than the Church, so Jack Frost makes more sense. Weird how McLennan and Kilbey trade off vocals within almost every track when McLennan and Forster almost never do! >>You should catch Alice and I doing a two part harmony version of "What am I >>doing Hangin' Round?" on car journeys. Well, maybe not. Damn, I love that song. One of my dad's favorites too. I also associate it with family car trips-- one of those tunes the whole clan liked. _________ Drew: >>Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that Weezer easily make my list of annoying >>bands. Mine, too, although I'm not totally sure why. Recently because of Cuomos' abominable attitude; don't care if it physiological, the guy's a dick. In a larger sense I thing I could never wrap my head around why one okay-ish power-pop band became enormously popular and innumerable other (and many better) similar bands from the same period went nowhere. Like Superdrag... Superdrag kicked Weezer's ass. >> With the Stone Roses you're talking about some songs whose primary >>value was attitude and a lead singer with an incredibly wishy-washy voice. Um... their primary value, to me, was really good guitar. Yes, I like that album. No, I don't think it comes anywhere near to deserving the accolades NME et. al. shower on it. And no, nothing else ever done by the Roses or any member thereof (with the *possible* exception of the bassist who joined Primal Scream) has ANY value of any kind whatsoever (he said subjectively). But the guitars on the self-titled album are just gorgeous. And the songs are lovely. The vocals are bad but they add just the right misanthropic touch to balance the sweetness. I still like it. Flame away. _____________ Damn, Eb sure is spilling a lot of vitriol about Scott Miller for someone who said SM was "okay" and that "nuff" was "said" seven or eight posts ago. - -Rex "questions without answers" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:04:24 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: purple legwarmers, etc. Jeff-- >And, symptomatic of a whole bunch of unproductive ways of dealing with actual racial issues, Now THIS reminds me of the 80s. It was a bad time for race relations. I remember tons of unpleasant or worse situations back then. And, maybe in part because how bad things were, my slightly older hippie friends gave shitful hard times about listening to "skinhead music." They would associate MTV w/ punk/new music & go on about how MTV had to be forced to play the "Billie Jean" video, etc. etc. They came up w/ all sorts of weird explanations for the Bad Brains. Definitely seems like something not to revisit. - --- Miles-- >a strong desire for *connectedness* and *belonging.* ... >Me, I hate people. Oh yes. Moi aussi. And just because I agree with you, don't think you're exempt. --> ;) <-- But I do like thinking about thousands of young women getting rythmically excited. So if thousands of young women get excited about Wham!, I at least want to know *something* about the group, and will no doubt listen to at least a couple of their songs at least a few times at least on the radio. As I age, this is less of an effect, but it is still there on some level. - --- Totally enamoured with Side 3. Really find myself trying to place the Nextdoorland songs *around* these songs. Main problem: Om (which I love) & Strings do have melodic similarities. But if you put one at the beginning & one at the end, it can be like "We Can Be Together"/ "Volunteers." "Coming Through" has a *very* interesting sound, may be my fav of the SBs reunion so far, or maybe after "If You Know Time." "Narcissus" is still up there. If this is the fan disk, I feel valued as a fan. - --- Since everyone else has probably moved on to the 90s by now, I'll just say Happy Thanksgiving, or harvest time (or spring for James) or X shopping days til X mas, or none of the above! Ross Taylor recently bought the 99 Red Balloons disk by Nena Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:16:24 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Once more unto the Corgan Quail leaps to the aid of Smashing Pumpkins: >>Took (1) art rock, (2) prog, (3) space rock, (4) psychedelia, (5) classic rock and (6)grunge Yes they did. Which explains part of why I don't like them. Don't enjoy (1) unless by that you mean, like, Eno or Patti Smith; intensely dislike (2), don't like (3) unless it means "dream rock" which it sometimes does (Spacemen 3/Loop etc.), love (4) but don't find it reflected much in SP; will be forever confused by what is and isn't considered (5), and can take or leave (6) depending on the practitioner. Rex, who used to use the term "grungy" to refer to the sound made by Crazy Horse, Husker Du, and/or the Stooges, once, a very, very long time ago, and found Mudhoney and Screaming Trees to be among the few Seattle bands to reflect it - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:20:28 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: the miller's tale On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I've gotten very tired of certain hipsters (who probably aren't you) > whose record collection is exactly as white and indie-rock as mine > suddenly declaring their undying love for Fela Anikulapo Kuti in crowds > where that's more hip to do I used to know of him only through this sort of name-dropping, AND I still haven't heard any actual Fela, but the Gift Of Gab + Lateef + Mixmaster Mike track on the recent Fela tribute is staggeringly good. I heard it, went out to buy the whole album, and ended up disappointed overall (not to mention unsure what Fela's own music sounds like). That song is probably worth what I paid for the whole disc, though. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:22:20 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: RE: camp van beethoven Michael E. Kupietz wrote: > > That's a great trick. I'm going to use that. Often. another trick you might try -- from the Holy Modal Rounders list (well, one of the many after their schisms) -- is that all Emily Dickinson poems fit the tune of "Yellow Rose Of Texas". Stewart (last two hours of this job, yeah!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:27:19 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: One more cup of coffee for the road.... Miles gooses, > Speaking of U2, what I perceive as a common thread in Quail's taste in > music and film is a strong desire for *connectedness* and *belonging.* I never really thought of it that way, but I can see your point. I'm a big fan of concert-as-a-ritual, whether the community campfires and solidarity communions of the Grateful Dead, the cathartic, high-energy revival tent of a U2 concert, or the what-the-fuck witchcraft of groups like Hawkwind and Electric Hellfire Club. >Not > that there's anything wrong with that. :-) But it really strikes me like a > *major* thing Quail is after in these entertainments (and it really comes > across in his reviews of things like U2 live shows) is feeling like part of > a bigger thing, and I think it helps explain some of his populist leanings > in music and film. Well, again, I can see your point -- though I also think of what Eb always teases me about, that I like epics. It's true, whether the Ring cycle, Joyce and Pynchon, Titanic, or the epic emotions of Bono. But, yes, I do like to feel part of a bigger event: I like communion with strangers, sharing something in common. There's a lot of energy there..... Populist leanings, huh? Heh. >There's a part of me that would like to be sneery about > this -- esp. his troubling affection for SpielBorg products -- but it's > totally legit. Er, thanks. I'm glad that I have your seal of legitimacy! ;) Though again, I think that some people around here, you perhaps included, tend to shut yourself off from things if they have the whiff of popularity, and that seems like a limitation to me. Additionally, I am a fan of grey zones. Spielberg has flaws, but I get bristly when people denounce him outright. It's artistic totalitarianism. > (Obviously this is a huge generalization on my part, and Quail's affection > for the universally panned Tin Machine -- albeit it being a project of a > Famous Person -- not to mention our Mr. Hitchcock shows that there's not a > simple popular = good thing going on his head. Well, you pegged my penchant for community/ritual, Eb knows my fondness for epics -- but then again, there's also a simple matter of taste, which is somewhat more complex. Various artists speak to different parts of us. For instance, I get off on Tin Machine's utter cynicism and bitter fragility; not to mention the fact I love Gabrel's shredding guitar. And Robyn is hypnotic to me: his metaphors are the closest thing I've heard to describing many of the ways I perceive the world deep within my interior. I must say, by the way, if this weren't a mailing list -- which means you don't really know me in person, only my postings on a few subjects -- I would feel a bit offended at your tone. First of all, by dispensing legitimacy you assume yourself to have elevated taste. Secondly, your comment regarding popularity=good is somewhat iffy, for several reasons. Number one, you shouldn't make such an assumption about me based on so little data; number two, the data you use is subjective to your own tastes, and number three, the fact I spend much of my free time writing about difficult-to-understand postmodern writers would seem to indicate that such an general assumption would be false anyway. Yes, I like Spielberg; but I also like Wenders, Herzog, and Jodorowsky. Yes, I like Beethoven and Glass; I also like Lindberg, Ligeti, and Boulez. And so on. But again, seriously, I know you meant no offense, and none was taken. I am actually a bit flattered that you would spill so much ink trying to figure my tastes out! > But I think this is a > promising line of Quail Analysis, and I plan on expanding this hypothesis > in a paper at the next Quail Studies conference. Delivered after Eb's "Deconstructing the Clippity Cloppity Brainfry Beat" and LJ's "You Can Tease Him All You Want, But I Actually Have to Listen to Rush Three Times a Week." - --Quail ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #393 ********************************