From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #366 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, November 11 2002 Volume 11 : Number 366 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: feeding the fire [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) [barbara soutar ] Dictionaries Schmictionaries [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) [Ed ] Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) [Ken Weingold ] Re: Recording off the soundboard : That pesky XLR chochke ["Michael E. Ku] Crispy Ambulence (very minor SB content) [Ken Weingold ] Re: Andy Fraser [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) (but *with* DC content) [Christopher Gro] From the NY Times (100% OT) ["*FS Thomas*" ] RE: feeding the fire [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] I can only give you everything ... ["ross taylor" Subject: RE: feeding the fire Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I find it ironic that people who rail against taxes are often the > same folks who then start huffing about mandatory military service - > apparently, they'd rather wear constricting uniforms and be told what > to do than pay money. Well, that's because _they_ wouldn't actually do the serving (and even their kids would just go into the champagne divisions of the National Guard like President Gas the draft dodger did). When they talk about mandatory military service, they mean for for other people. ===== "If we don't allow journalists, politicians, and every two-bit Joe Schmo with a cause to grandstand by using 9-11 as a lame rhetorical device, then the terrorists have already won." -- "Shredder" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:09:20 -0800 From: barbara soutar Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) Hi, Jeffrey with 2 Fs said: "The US capital is, of course, Washington, DC - which not only is not in any of the fifty states that comprise the union, citizens thereof lack representation in the House and Senate - and in some senses, then, it can be said that the capital isn't *really* in or of the United States." Didn't know this Jeff! Thanks for the info. Barbara Soutar Victoria, B.C. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:11:03 +0000 (GMT) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Dictionaries Schmictionaries National service in Israel is currently undergoing a Supreme Court challenge which questions its very legality, from a guy called Rami Kaplan (I think) and a bunch of other 'refuseniks'. Interesting to see how that pans out in the current climate. Also, an excellent jazz musician (and Israeli-born, anti-Zionist, see www.giladatzmon.co.uk) has a debut novel out which has a Heller-esque sequence about his national service. An experience which turned him against his country. I'd second Stewart on the 2 vol. Shorter Oxford English (slightly unwieldy, but essential). And I'd say the Chambers pips the Collins on the shorter ones, but I use both. Crowbar Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:59:33 -0500 From: Ed Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) On Sunday, November 10, 2002, at 05:09 PM, barbara soutar wrote: > Didn't know this Jeff! Thanks for the info. DC recently changed its license plates' motto from "a capitol city," to: "taxation without representation" (carefully worded so as not to be a rallying cry like "NO taxation without representation," but merely to be a statement of fact). There are many people in the U.S. who do not know or understand the plight of DC residents -- let alone in Canada! If you asked most Americans to name the place with close to a million people, who pay U.S. federal taxes, who are subject to federal law, who may be sent to federal prisons or to fight in the U.S. Army, but who have no representative or Senator representing them in Congress, you'd hear "Puerto Rico?" or "Grenada?" a lot more than you'd hear "Washington, DC." - -ed "i tried virginia where everybody's republican, then moved to dc where I couldn't vote at all, and finally to maryland where everybody's a democrat...so this year we get the sniper and the first republican governor since spiro agnew" poole ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:50:12 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) On Sun, Nov 10, 2002, Ed wrote: > DC recently changed its license plates' motto from "a capitol city," > to: "taxation without representation" (carefully worded so as not to be > a rallying cry like "NO taxation without representation," but merely to > be a statement of fact). There are many people in the U.S. who do not > know or understand the plight of DC residents -- let alone in Canada! > If you asked most Americans to name the place with close to a million > people, who pay U.S. federal taxes, who are subject to federal law, who > may be sent to federal prisons or to fight in the U.S. Army, but who > have no representative or Senator representing them in Congress, you'd > hear "Puerto Rico?" or "Grenada?" a lot more than you'd hear > "Washington, DC." That's funny. As a total side note: I'm not sure about voting, but Brazil also has a capital that is not part of any state. Brasilia, DF. DF = Distrito Federal. Just mentioning that I spent time in Brasilia seems to get me instant worship of architectural types. Pretty cool. :) - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:01:48 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Recording off the soundboard : That pesky XLR chochke At 11:21 AM -0800 11/9/02, John Barrington Jones spake thus: >THe last few times I've asked for soundboard accesss at gigs, I've gotten >permission, only to be SOL when they ask for my XLR connector. > >I don't have one! How, and where, do I get one? The ones I've seen other >tapers use seem to be homemade or something. I am no good with wires and >solder and such. And what exactly am I looking for? Male, or female XLR to >1/8" stereo miniplug? > >Thanks in advance for any help you can give. > >And how do you really spell chochke? Its a yiddish word meaning trinket. I >figure it starts with a T. > >Have a great three-day weekend, > >=jbj= You were close. Tchotchke. Mike, Schlemiel-At-Large ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:06:31 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Crispy Ambulence (very minor SB content) I went to see Crispy Ambulance tonight at The Knitting Factory in NYC. Pretty cool. Nothing Earth-shattering, but really good show. For those who don't know, Crispy Ambulance was one of the early Factory Records bands. Alan Hempsall, the singer, actually sang for Joy Division for half a set once when Ian Curtis had an epileptic fit. Apparently Alan was supposed to be their new singer after Curtis killed himself, but they ended up forming New Order instead. Small crowd, so we spoke with them afterwards. Real nice guys. Where some of the Factory freaks were getting autographs and blood samples (the bassist cut his finger between encores opening a beer), I was just chatting with him about what-not. I got him interested in hearing the Soft Boys. He did admit that he doesn't listen to much music, enjoys more playing it. Fun time. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:46:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: RE: feeding the fire On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > - the fact is we all already *do* serve the government: it's called > taxes. I find it ironic that people who rail against taxes are often > the same folks who then start huffing about mandatory military service > - apparently, they'd rather wear constricting uniforms and be told > what to do than pay money. Well, this dates back to 1349 and the Black Death. Up till then, villeins were obliged to provide labour and military services to the lord of the manor. But when a large proportion of the population died (1/3? 1/2?) labour supply dropped dramatically, and many villeins found that they could sell their labour instead of giving it for nothing. They often chose to "commute" their labour services into tax payments instead. Eventually labour services died out altogether. There seems no reason why we shouldn't do the reverse, and offer people the choice of community service instead of paying taxes. - - Mike "you should read my 1978 article on tax compliance costs" Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:12:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Andy Fraser > On 8 Nov 2002 at 17:33, Michael R Godwin wrote: > . Fraser moved to Sharks(?) and then disappeared - any > > idea what happened to him? > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 rosso@videotron.ca wrote: > You've gotta love the web: > http://www.fatea.freeserve.co.uk/music/fraser.htm I've just found an update to 1984: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Backstage/6822/fineline.html - - Mike Godwin PS My old china Brian Grist turned up last week with some remixes of stuff we were doing in 1981-82 - sample track at: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~hssmrg/int.html (sounds fine on Musicmatch but dodgy on Quicktime) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:59:03 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) (but *with* DC content) On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, barbara soutar wrote: > Jeffrey with 2 Fs said: > "The US capital is, of course, Washington, DC - which not only is not in > any of the fifty states that comprise the union, citizens thereof lack > representation in the House and Senate - and in some senses, then, it > can be said > that the capital isn't *really* in or of the United States." > > Didn't know this Jeff! Thanks for the info. Being a pedant, I have to quibble with this. Although DC is not part of any individual state, it IS part of the United States. The United States as a nation can possess land that is not part of a particular state -- the most obvious example is all the territory west of the Appalachians that existed as US Territories for various lengths of time before becoming states. The District of Columbia falls into this category. You can't reasonably say that DC is not "really" in the US today, any more than you could say Kansas Territory was not really in the US in 1850. On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Ed wrote: > If you asked most Americans to name the place with close to a million > people, who pay U.S. federal taxes, who are subject to federal law, who > may be sent to federal prisons or to fight in the U.S. Army, but who > have no representative or Senator representing them in Congress, you'd > hear "Puerto Rico?" or "Grenada?" a lot more than you'd hear > "Washington, DC." That's doubly sad, if these people think Grenada is a US territory! ;) There is a long-standing "statehood for DC" movement. There's even a DC Statehood Party (which ISTR merged with the DC Green party in 2000). Personally, I think a better solution would be to have Maryland re-absorb the District, the way Virginia re-absorbed Alexandria and Arlington back in the 19th Century. But the problem with this idea is that Maryland probably wouldn't *want* the District.... - --Chris "no music content" the Christer ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:05:22 -0500 From: "*FS Thomas*" Subject: From the NY Times (100% OT) INTELLIGENCE Pentagon Plans a Computer System That Would Peek at Personal Data of Americans By JOHN MARKOFF The Pentagon is constructing a computer system that could create a vast electronic dragnet, searching for personal information as part of the hunt for terrorists around the globe - including the United States. As the director of the effort, Vice Adm. John M. Poindexter, has described the system in Pentagon documents and in speeches, it will provide intelligence analysts and law enforcement officials with instant access to information from Internet mail and calling records to credit card and banking transactions and travel documents, without a search warrant. Historically, military and intelligence agencies have not been permitted to spy on Americans without extraordinary legal authorization. But Admiral Poindexter, the former national security adviser in the Reagan administration, has argued that the government needs broad new powers to process, store and mine billions of minute details of electronic life in the United States. Admiral Poindexter, who has described the plan in public documents and speeches but declined to be interviewed, has said that the government needs to "break down the stovepipes" that separate commercial and government databases, allowing teams of intelligence agency analysts to hunt for hidden patterns of activity with powerful computers. "We must become much more efficient and more clever in the ways we find new sources of data, mine information from the new and old, generate information, make it available for analysis, convert it to knowledge, and create actionable options," he said in a speech in California earlier this year. Admiral Poindexter quietly returned to the government in January to take charge of the Office of Information Awareness at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, known as Darpa. The office is responsible for developing new surveillance technologies in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks. In order to deploy such a system, known as Total Information Awareness, new legislation would be needed, some of which has been proposed by the Bush administration in the Homeland Security Act that is now before Congress. That legislation would amend the Privacy Act of 1974, which was intended to limit what government agencies could do with private information. The possibility that the system might be deployed domestically to let intelligence officials look into commercial transactions worries civil liberties proponents. "This could be the perfect storm for civil liberties in America," said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington "The vehicle is the Homeland Security Act, the technology is Darpa and the agency is the F.B.I. The outcome is a system of national surveillance of the American public." Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld has been briefed on the project by Admiral Poindexter and the two had a lunch to discuss it, according to a Pentagon spokesman. "As part of our development process, we hope to coordinate with a variety of organizations, to include the law enforcement community," a Pentagon spokeswoman said. An F.B.I. official, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified, said the bureau had had preliminary discussions with the Pentagon about the project but that no final decision had been made about what information the F.B.I. might add to the system. A spokesman for the White House Office of Homeland Security, Gordon Johndroe, said officials in the office were not familiar with the computer project and he declined to discuss concerns raised by the project's critics without knowing more about it. He referred all questions to the Defense Department, where officials said they could not address civil liberties concerns because they too were not familiar enough with the project. Some members of a panel of computer scientists and policy experts who were asked by the Pentagon to review the privacy implications this summer said terrorists might find ways to avoid detection and that the system might be easily abused. "A lot of my colleagues are uncomfortable about this and worry about the potential uses that this technology might be put, if not by this administration then by a future one," said Barbara Simon, a computer scientist who is past president of the Association of Computing Machinery. "Once you've got it in place you can't control it." Other technology policy experts dispute that assessment and support Admiral Poindexter's position that linking of databases is necessary to track potential enemies operating inside the United States. "They're conceptualizing the problem in the way we've suggested it needs to be understood," said Philip Zelikow, a historian who is executive director of the Markle Foundation task force on National Security in the Information Age. "They have a pretty good vision of the need to make the tradeoffs in favor of more sharing and openness." On Wednesday morning, the panel reported its findings to Dr. Tony Tether, the director of the defense research agency, urging development of technologies to protect privacy as well as surveillance, according to several people who attended the meeting. If deployed, civil libertarians argue, the computer system would rapidly bring a surveillance state. They assert that potential terrorists would soon learn how to avoid detection in any case. The new system will rely on a set of computer-based pattern recognition techniques known as "data mining," a set of statistical techniques used by scientists as well as by marketers searching for potential customers. The system would permit a team of intelligence analysts to gather and view information from databases, pursue links between individuals and groups, respond to automatic alerts, and share information efficiently, all from their individual computers. The project calls for the development of a prototype based on test data that would be deployed at the Army Intelligence and Security Command at Fort Belvoir, Va. Officials would not say when the system would be put into operation. The system is one of a number of projects now under way inside the government to lash together both commercial and government data to hunt for patterns of terrorist activities. "What we are doing is developing technologies and a prototype system to revolutionize the ability of the United States to detect, classify and identify foreign terrorists, and decipher their plans, and thereby enable the U.S. to take timely action to successfully pre-empt and defeat terrorist acts," said Jan Walker, the spokeswoman for the defense research agency. Before taking the position at the Pentagon, Admiral Poindexter, who was convicted in 1990 for his role in the Iran-contra affair, had worked as a contractor on one of the projects he now controls. Admiral Poindexter's conviction was reversed in 1991 by a federal appeals court because he had been granted immunity for his testimony before Congress about the case. Actual link: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/09/politics/09COMP.html?ei=5062&en=873ff5626a 3c666e&ex=1037509200 F S Thomas ferris@ochremedia.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:22:15 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: feeding the fire Quoting Michael R Godwin : > Well, this dates back to 1349 and the Black Death. Up till then, villeins > were obliged to provide labour and military services to the lord of the > manor. But when a large proportion of the population died (1/3? 1/2?) > labour supply dropped dramatically, and many villeins found that they > could sell their labour instead of giving it for nothing. They often chose > to "commute" their labour services into tax payments instead. Eventually > labour services died out altogether. Yes, I believe that it was written in the village rolls that if the villeins required oxen, and that oxen were lent, that the villeins and the plowmen got to have the lord's consent. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:30:42 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: I can only give you everything ... ... a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Catching up. - --- Thanks to now having non-credit-card payment available, Side 3 & Great Northern Revisited are finally coming to me. In anticipation, I've been playing Tunnel Into Summer. "Little Ray of Sunshine" is a great song, a music-hall/Kinks indirect look at being an aging pop star. I wonder if it also refers to his pinnacle of fame w/ "Walking on Sunshine." What happened w/ the Waves anyway? Was the break up relatively amicable (for a pop group)? There's really a strong Davies strain throughout the record. Funny how his guitar here seems very folk/Stones/R&B, as it does on much of the new SB record (& particularly on "Memphis BLues Again" -- never a dull verse), but on many of the radio tracks (& the older SBs stuff) he's very Beefheart (what guitarist?), even like the angular parts of Hendrix. Man, it would be cool to hear this Soft Boys do "Manic Depresssion" or "House Burning Down." - --- I'm not convinced either way about mandatory civil service, but it's an interesting topic. Regarding the conscription analogy, doesn't the alternative to the draft risk creating a Warrior Class that could become a dangerous political force? - --- Speaking of a Warrior Class, does anyone know if this is really a big year for ants swarming? Seems like everywhere I go I'm in danger of inhaling a couple of queens & drones. I'm thinking it's from the summers' drought, which also gave us a dangerously huge acorn crop. (I still have a bruise.) - --- No time at all-- IMO "If You Know Time" is an instant classic. Seems like when Robyn gets on his real subject-- death -- songs come as easy for him as breathing. Ross Taylor "the senator came down here, showing everyone his noose and handing out free tickets to the wedding of his moose" Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:45:35 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) (but *with* DC content) Quoting Christopher Gross : > On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, barbara soutar wrote: > > > Jeffrey with 2 Fs said: > > "The US capital is, of course, Washington, DC - which not only is not in > > any of the fifty states that comprise the union, citizens thereof lack > > representation in the House and Senate - and in some senses, then, it > > can be said > > that the capital isn't *really* in or of the United States." > > > > Didn't know this Jeff! Thanks for the info. > > Being a pedant, I have to quibble with this. Although DC is not part of > any individual state, it IS part of the United States. I said "in some senses, then, it can be said" to clarify that my "[not] really in or of the United States" did not apply in all senses. Politically, the citizens of DC are disenfranchised from representation and therefore do not enjoy the full range of rights given to other US citizens. In that sense, those residents are not "really" (i.e., fully and completely) part of (citizens of, with all rights and privileges) the US. Of course, DC is geographically part of the US, etc. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat :: everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum :: temporo-spatial anomaly. :: --Crow T. Maslow np: Monks of Doom _The Cosmodemonic Telegraph Company_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:34:03 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: The Mentally-Ill Songwriters' Hall of Fame (and other shrines) Slowly returning to health & consciousness. No desire to hop into the polluted waters of politics, but on other recent topics: Drew: >>Personally, I see enough loathsome people being rewarded in real life, and I >>don't really enjoy paying to watch the same thing happen at the movies. But I don't mean they have to be loathesome, just other than one-dimensionally "likeable". That system where "good characters" are "rewarded" and "evil" ones "punished" is exactly what bores me. But it sounds like you basically agree with that, but just don't like Wes's particular brand of ambiguity. That's cool. _________________ Russ: >>I only saw one set list from this show (from Rex) and I don't recall seeing >>anything by Love on there. Can anyone recall what song this was? Thought I mentioned this before, but there was no Love cover. Like woj I assume that the reviewer mistool QOE for a Love song due to the introduction. Which is pretty embarassing for an LA-based music journalist, although as I mentioned QOE wouldn't be a bad fit on the first Love LP. I think my setlist had all the right songs in a totally wrong order. __________________ John B. on Daniel Johnston: >>He seems to be above Wesley Willis but below Barrett and Kristin Hersh on >>the mentally anguished songwriter scale. Ooohhh, I wanna see the scale. Where's Roky Erickson? Brian Wilson? Michael Jackson? What unit of measurement to we apply to the various writers' dementia? Do they lose or gain points for writing *good* songs? ________ Michael W.: >>I know the sea shanty thread is passed... Yeah, but I forgot to mention that my "Ghost Ship" compilations turned out quite nicely. A few of you expressed some interest in getting copies for yourselves... let me know if you still want them. Weird listening, but there you go. We also cut "videos" for many of the nautical tunes including 3 by Robyn... any of you archivists have any interest in seeing these? They're basically film footage from major motion pictures cut to the songs... dead bodies underwater for "Luminous Rose", etc... Don't have my own copy of the relevant DVD yet but hope to get one soon. _______ Magic Band Reunion: This sounds... interesting. Since it's coming to ATP in LA I'll be able to see it (although I am still a bit nonplussed by Matt Groening as the festival curator). But... ...they're doing a new recording of an instrumental version of Trout Mask? Hmmmm. Okay... Are they bringing on guest vocalists at the live shows? That's what the Iggy-less "Stooges" did at ATP in LA, but Stooges songs are a lot better known and easier to sing than the Captain's. However, if they need vocalists, Robyn would absolutely have to be on the short list. Ah well. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:28:37 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Mac OS X Oooh, I went through that one, too. Wasted an entire day trying to install Jaguar before giving up and going back to 9. Here's a little something that might amuse you... it's a parody of those annoying Apple ads. Mike At 3:18 PM -0800 11/9/02, Mike Swedene spake thus: >Looks like I have one of the "bad discs" for OS X. I >am forced to reinstall OS 9 and try and get a newer >copy of OS X (Jaguar). I appreciate all the answers >and assistance I recd during this time. > >Herbie > >np-> Blur "Bad Day" > >mac-less now for _5_ days.... > > > >===== >--------------------------------------------- >View my Websight & CDR Trade page at: >http://midy.topcities.com/ >_____________________________________________ >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:36:24 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Oh Canada (no donut content) (but *with* DC content) On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I said "in some senses, then, it can be said" to clarify that my > "[not] really in or of the United States" did not apply in all senses. > Politically, the citizens of DC are disenfranchised from > representation and therefore do not enjoy the full range of rights > given to other US citizens. In that sense, those residents are not > "really" (i.e., fully and completely) part of (citizens of, with all > rights and privileges) the US. Well, I understand what you're saying ... but while I don't want to argue about this, I still think you chose a bad (potentially misleading) way of putting it. I'd prefer a more literal expression than your usage. As a side note, DC residents are only partially disenfranchised: they can vote for president (DC is the only non-state with this right) and for their mayor, District council and assorted other officials (though the District government exists on Congressional sufference). - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:38:49 -0800 From: "Michael E. Kupietz, wearing a pointy hat" Subject: Re: Mac OS X Oooh, I went through that one, too. Wasted an entire day trying to install Jaguar before giving up and going back to 9. Here's a little something that might amuse you... it's a parody of those annoying Apple ads. Mike At 3:18 PM -0800 11/9/02, Mike Swedene spake thus: >Looks like I have one of the "bad discs" for OS X. I >am forced to reinstall OS 9 and try and get a newer >copy of OS X (Jaguar). I appreciate all the answers >and assistance I recd during this time. > >Herbie > >np-> Blur "Bad Day" > >mac-less now for _5_ days.... > > > >===== >--------------------------------------------- >View my Websight & CDR Trade page at: >http://midy.topcities.com/ >_____________________________________________ >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #366 ********************************