From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #333 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, October 20 2002 Volume 11 : Number 333 Today's Subjects: ----------------- You know.... you're right (0% RH/SB) [Mike Swedene ] Re: #332 [Eb ] Hey, hey, hey, it's magic... [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Magic [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Re: Magic ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Songs about members/My dogs eat poo! [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks ["Stewart C. Russell" ] head music [drew ] Re: head music [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Oh Barry! [Jill Brand ] Re: head music ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Side 3 ["Marc Holden" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:12:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Swedene Subject: You know.... you're right (0% RH/SB) Just saw the "video" for the new Nirvana Single on VH1 (2:00 AM EDT) followed by "Spoonman" and then Led Zep "Communication Breakdown." Who would have thunk it.... oh well.... Herbie np-> "9-9" REM np on komputer-> Galactic Battlegrounds now thinking -> should I upgrade to OS X this weekend or next,..... ===== - --------------------------------------------- View my Websight & CDR Trade page at: http://midy.topcities.com/ _____________________________________________ Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:48:06 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: #332 >From: "Bachman, Michael" > > I would agree with that. The Dream Syndicate was labeled a Paisley >Underground >band, but I would put them down as a VU influenced band. They didn't sound >at all like The Rain Parade, early Bangles or The Three O'Clock. So it must >be the regional and timing thing that got them tossed into the PU. Don't underestimate the superficial impact of that way-psychedelic band name. Boy, I tried hard to like the Dream Syndicate. Never could understand the acclaim for that band. I kept a few of their records for years, just because I was "supposed to"...finally gave up. Consistently flat singing, and too many dull, strummy-chord songs. Actually, I even kept a couple of Steve Wynn solo albums for awhile too. > Luna is mentioned as a VU influenced band, but where does that leave Dean >Wareham's previous group Galaxie 500? They just never seemed to get the >respect that Luna does. I feel the opposite way. I couldn't even count how many indie-rockers have raved about Galaxie 500 to me, and then sadly tsk-tsked when I told them I preferred Luna. >The extra musicians in Luna really >make them a better band than the Galaxie 500 trio. Absolutely. >From: "Rex.Broome" > >It's related to what I've heard referred to as "Encyclopedia Rock", with the >cited examples being "69 Love Songs", John Linnell's album where all the >songs are named after States, the Residents' "Commercial Album" and a few >other such rigorous-yet-goofy formalistic experiments which elude me now >(track-by-track remake or response albums like "Exile in Guyville", maybe). >It's not exactly the same thing, but most of its adherents would indeed be >people who still go to see They Might Be Giants on tour. Don't underestimate...oops, I already began a response that way, didn't I? I think 69 Love Songs benefits from *another* crutch -- the double/triple record syndrome. Always seems to me like certain albums get casually labeled a band's "masterpiece," just because it's extra long. I've probably been guilty of this, myself. Some possible examples might be Bitches Brew, Something/Anything?, The Wall, Songs in the Key of Life, Zen Arcade, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, The Pod, English Settlement, Trout Mask Replica, Lolita Nation, Tommy, Exile on Main Street, either Olivia Tremor Control album....maybe even The White Album. Good-to-great albums, but maybe overpraised just because they're so imposingly BEEEEEG. >From: drew > > > But then you get images like in the FBH > > album's first track: "I'd rather be the queen at the guillotine/in a >> bloody resurrection/than be losing your affection." "I'd rather be >> the frog speaking Tagalog/as they start the vivisection/than be >> losing your affection." Ha. Great fun. > >Ugh. I guess it's a question of taste, but those sorts of lyrics >make me gag. I think it's more the "than be losing your affection" >part than the rest of it, actually, though I hope he said "insurrection" instead of "resurrection" Lordy, what's wrong with me? I must have an aversion to typing "in." First I mistyped "inaccurate," now "insurrection." Maybe I'll figure this out on my next life. Eb, (physically) sick for the first time in quite awhile ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:33:56 +0100 (BST) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Hey, hey, hey, it's magic... >Every LS has its >limitations and Feg's may be is in its >occasional blindness to the >non-scientific. Do you mean Art? Philosophy? Politics? ;-) I think it depends where you're coming from. I reckon *some-people-on-the-list's* occasional blindness is to the scientific. We have a number here who support theism, astrology, magic; and a number, myself included, who think that such support is at best debatable and worst badly misguided and completely untenable. Calling someone's opinion 'a blindness' is a mite controversial ;-). I've read extensively in astrology, magic, religion, examining especially their psycho-sociologies (oooh, get me...!) and I don't believe they have any privileged view of reality (and most of their claims are just plain ludicrous), but that's only my opinion. What I do find, and this might sound a trifle patronising, is people who do support these non-scientific world-views often haven't read any of the sceptical literature. And that isn't necessarily a wilful omission. Godders, for example, a venerable and highly intelligent man (you owe me a pint ;-)) mentioned Colin Wilson's remarks about J.B.Rhine testing subjects for ESP and achieving a remarkable success rate. Even sympathetic parapsychologists don't accept these results as proof of psychic ability any more. Rhine's experimental methodologies were lax to the point of non-existence. And Colin Wilson is in MHO, well, I don't how to put it politely, but you get my jist. As someone else put it, I think it has a lot to do with terminologies. I read an interesting article in The Skeptical Enquirer magazine (an excellent publication, but I would say that wouldn't I...) in which the writer claimed that the Kalahari bushmen employed a heuristic, proto-Baconian modus operandi in their observation of empirical signs in nature. To him they are scientists, to James they are magicians. (I'm over-simplifying, James, I know...sorry!). One final, slightly whimsical point - why didn't ancient magicians take on board the fact that when they failed to complete a ritual sacrifice the sun still came up...? Soft Boys content: Yup, the Boys were superb at the Mean Fiddler (feels weird calling it that, for me, the MF will be forever Harlesden...). Organic, powerful, nay magical. You could actually hear Matthew's bass properly! I Love Lucy needs work live, but I Wanna Destroy You, which I thought didn't quite cut it last time, is now immense. And I like the new number - Killing People Won't Bring The Dead Ones Back ;-) Crowbar Joe Side 3 is a must. Agree with Ashley on the tracks that should've been included on NDL. Lions and Tigers dropped and NDL made a 12-tracker. Om is God-like (if I believed in he/she/it) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:29:42 +0100 (BST) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Magic Apologies to Kay, for not reading *her* apologies before my last post, but...! >And don't forget, Newton was an alchemst;-) Yes, but this had little or nothing to do with his achievements in science, and everything to do with his oddball Arian beliefs, and the contemporary fashion for Hermes Trismegistus and the like. Newton was essentially a heretic, who didn't believe in the Holy Trinity. He wrote reams and reams on religion. Far more ink than he expended on science. He drew up architectural plans of The Temple from Biblical descriptions, that sort of thing. More than one biographer has postulated that the only contribution alchemy made was to the splitting head-aches and distinctly anti-social behaviour he evinced on many occasions, which came about as the result of his inhalation of toxic fumes during experiments! Interestingly though, at the time, the action of celestial bodies upon each other at distance (the foundations of the Newtonian revolution) was considered by many as 'occult' or magical! Science is often counter-intuitive, take quantum for example, and this is sometimes where the entanglements of science and magic become a wee bit odd, and to my mind, overstated and misleading - step forward The Tao Of Physics. One absolutely superb book on the 16th/17th C. interface of religious reformation, scientific revolution and the withering of paganism is Keith Thomas's Religion & The Decline Of Magic. Crowbar Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:44:12 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Magic crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com wrote: > > Newton was essentially a heretic ... not that it's related to heresy, but he was a nasty piece of work. The way he treated Hooke was unforgiveable. For years, Newton and his clique shut Hooke's theory of elasticity out, until it became obvious that it was true. Some say that Hooke suggested gravitation to Newton in a letter, but the Isle of Wight's famous son didn't have the maths to further the theory. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:51:16 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks Fric Chaud wrote: > > I couldn't agree with you more! y'know what REALLY bugs me about magic? I'll tell ya; its use a plot-saving device in unimaginative works of fiction, eg: 1: Oh no, we're stuck at the bottom of a ravine with an avalanche to the left and ravening nasty-ass monsters to the right! What're we gonna do?! Aiiee! 2: I know, let's use magic ... 1: Phew, that was close, eh? Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:50:31 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks >From: "Stewart C. Russell" >1: Phew, that was close, eh? > >Stewart You're a Canadian already, eh? Max _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:54:08 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Setlists? Hi. Anyone jot down a setlist for either British show? Any surprises? Thanks, Max _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:09:31 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: Songs about members/My dogs eat poo! In a message dated 10/18/02 8:28:58 PM, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: << Y'know, when this song came out, I was in the third grade or so, and a friend *insisted* the lyrics ran "Oh, oh, oh it's my dick..." >> Guys love to change song lyrics to make the songs about their weenies. Much after third grade, it was college actually, one of my best friends took the lyrics to China Crisis "It's Everything" and insisted on singing "My Dick's Everything". I personally like to change song lyrics to sing about how my dogs eat poo. They love it. They eat it every day. I re-wrote "candyman" to be about my dogs eating poo. "Who can take a back yard, sprinkle it with poo, cover it with chocolate and a piece of fudge or two... Ally can..." I'm sure some of you will remember my beagle named Ally McBeagle... And another friend insisted Steve Perry was singing "Cinnamon Gum" when he was really singing Shouldabeen gone"... But to this day, I still hear Cinnamon Gum... now that's magic! Hershey's Kisses, Blatzy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:38:07 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks Maximilian Lang wrote: > > You're a Canadian already, eh? I'm afraid to say it's very infectious. I really hope longer-term canadians don't think I'm taking the piss. Stewart O'Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:52:23 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: LoTR Review Slashdot posted a (quickly swamped) link to a lengthy review of the home-release DVD extended version of "Fellowship of the Ring" a couple of days ago. Seems to be working again now, the direct url is: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101821 There's a nice summary of the added/reordered scenes (30 min worth!) and some cool screenshots. Seems like there's a couple nice perks for buying the 5 disc 'gift' set vs the 4 disc 'regular' set as well. Michael "putting the Midge back in Midgewater" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:33:51 -0700 From: drew Subject: head music I always think I'm going to like Luna, but then I put on one of their records and get annoyed and/or bored halfway through. It just sounds too samey and Wareham's voice irritates me. Oh well. > From: "Rex.Broome" > I've noticed that a lot of the people I've met who really like Steven > Merritt are into what I consider to be a strain of novelty rock. I see your point, though I'm not sure I'd put it quite this way. The Merritt stuff I like is the stuff without a concept or theme or adopted style stuck onto it, e.g. the albums I've already mentioned. That he wrote 69 love songs and performed them in alphabetical order is meaningless to me. > Fans of this stuff seem to get as much of a kick out of > describing the clever concept of the record to you as actually > listening to > it. "See, what the guy did was he took these songs etc... Isn't that > cool?" Funny you should say that. Take a look at this month's Onion AV Club "Justify Your Existence." Claudia Gonson is so eager to sell us on the wacky, whimsical subjects of Merritt's songs that she doesn't even answer the (stupid) questions. > (track-by-track remake or response albums like "Exile in Guyville", > maybe). _Exile in Guyville_ may be a response album but it's a pretty amazing one. Even having never heard _Exile on Main Street_ it's a five-star restaurant for me. > It's not exactly the same thing, but most of its adherents would > indeed be > people who still go to see They Might Be Giants on tour. I went to see They Might Be Giants on tour for Mink Car. I didn't go because I like "Encyclopedia Rock". > What they know instead is bad '80's new wave and "Goth" Hey, fuck you, man...smiley! > Or maybe I'm just a horrible musical and cultural snob. That would imply your tastes are better than everyone else's, as opposed to just different. > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > > Here's another example of magical thinking at work: newspapers that > print > things like "f*ck." That's not really "magical." "F*ck" is completely different from "fuck." It's a means of distancing oneself from the word, of communicating reluctance to use it, of applying a semblance of tastefulness over a direct quote. I suspect that secret cabal of mystics, the linguists, would have a lot to say about the reasons partially censored expletives are used and what they mean. To take a page from James here, it seems that a lot of people are stuck on this idea of science as dry, boring, unmysterious, plodding, and gray-clad Nazi-booted coming-to-crush-your-souls. That's pretty damned sad. Like I said, science at its heart is just _looking_, exploring, learning, experimenting. To believe in magic is to accept some limit to exploration and learning, to accept that some things are unknowable and should be taken at face value. I don't find that particularly soul- elevating myself. To me there's enough "magic" (meaning exciting, thrilling mystery unfolding to reveal even more puzzles to be solved) in a scientific view of the world to last me a lifetime. This idea that there's something missing in that attitude is sort of like the idea that atheists have no soul or that heterosexuals are sexually stunted. Science and magic are not categories of existence, they are simply ways of looking and thinking, and they both observe the same reality. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:01:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: head music On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, drew wrote: > Funny you should say that. Take a look at this month's Onion > AV Club "Justify Your Existence." Claudia Gonson is so eager > to sell us on the wacky, whimsical subjects of Merritt's songs > that she doesn't even answer the (stupid) questions. Uh, but expecting musicians to answer the questions in JYE is kind of pointless - esp. if the musicians are familiar w/it (and damned near everyone knows _The Onion_). In fact, it's always a red flag for me when a musician actually answers those questions seriously: it says to me, "this musician is humorless and clueless - I doubt I'd like the music." > > Here's another example of magical thinking at work: newspapers that > > print > > things like "f*ck." > > That's not really "magical." "F*ck" is completely different from > "fuck." > It's a means of distancing oneself from the word, of communicating > reluctance to use it, of applying a semblance of tastefulness over a > direct quote. Of course it's not *really* magical. But if you really want to distance yourself, be reluctant, or tasteful, you omit it entirely - as in the infamous (from the Watergate transcripts) "[expletive deleted]" or some other means. But assuming you're correct: writing "f*ck" does the things you suggest it does only if you believe that "f*ck" somehow is different from "fuck" in anything but typography. Or to put it another way, that that little "u" is somehow more offensive than the asterisk - even though everyone reads right through the asterisk. Why are "bad words" bad? Do we think that seeing them has some particular effect on people? Esp. if they're attributed to someone else (as in quotations), why would they have any reflection on the source doing the quoting? One common form of "magic" (the quotes mean I'm now *not* using James' definition) has to do with attributing a very specific power to words, to letters: incantations that in being spoken enact things or summon beings; beliefs that actually writing out, say, "God" instead of "G*d" is a form of blasphemy or taking of the name in vain, etc. Curses are a particular category of this form of magic. That particular sort of inch-length distancing from "bad words" (when the word and concept themselves are perfectly clear - as opposed to "the politician then used a word unfit for a family newspaper") seems quite similar, psychologically - and thus my comparison of it to a sort of vestigial belief in word-magic. > I suspect that secret cabal of mystics, the linguists, You're familiar with the etymology of "cabal," no? It's derived from the cabala - central to which is a belief in the mystic power of certain words (in this case the Jewish scriptures). - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::part of your circuit of incompetence:: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 20:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: Oh Barry! The double f man wrote: "Do I win a prize for being the first (and hopefully last) person to mention Barry Manilow on this list?" Hey, I know the president of the Scottish chapter of the Barry Manilow fan club. AND I got her to go to see Robyn at the Edinburgh Festival in 2001. Do I win some kind of fegpoints-for-the-perverse because of this? Or is it just my personal magic that makes things like this happen (duck and cover)? Oh, and computer wizards, here is a question to ponder. My e-mail account is a university account, and they have all kinds of filters and whatnot that make my inbox spam-free. Five days ago, I checked my e-mail, and there were 70 (SEVENFUCKINGTY) pieces of spam (size matters - both breast and penis, Viagra, miracles, mortgage rates....). This went on for 4 days and then, basta, it was all gone. Do you think they take breaks sending this stuff on the weekends? Do you think this happened all over Boston University and that the computer brains figured out how to stop it? Do tell. Jill, who, as usual, agrees with Fric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:42:50 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: head music drew wrote: > > I went to see They Might Be Giants on tour for Mink Car. I didn't > go because I like "Encyclopedia Rock". I saw them on Severe Tire Damage, Mink Car, *and* No! because I like them. They're funny. Not because Dave Eggers likes them. They get extra points for having Peter Stampfel play on one of their tracks. > That's not really "magical." "F*ck" is completely different from "fuck." And for the small point that it's illegal to transmit obscenities in some jurisdictions. It's just editors covering their asses. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:39:33 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Side 3 Side 3 came in the mail today. I had a chance to listen to it a couple of times in the car this evening. I really like the full band version of Each of Her Silver Wands, but prefer how Om sounded when Robyn played it solo at Amoeba Records earlier this year. All the tracks from Nextdoorland, including the vinyl bonus tracks and Side 3 fit nicely onto one CDR--which is kind of cool for convenience (of course, more music would have been nice, too). These should be some great shows coming up. Later, Marc "Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master." Emo Philips ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #333 ********************************