From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #332 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, October 18 2002 Volume 11 : Number 332 Today's Subjects: ----------------- REM/REW/PU/VU/dB's ["Rex.Broome" ] Uh Oh [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Sigh... why am I saying this, about that, now? ["Rex.Broome" ] The merits of Merritt, novelty rock & Robyn's place therein ["Rex.Broome"] you just have to make it two [drew ] The Longing for Magic [barbara soutar ] sleep-talk ["Montauk Daisy" ] Re: The merits of Merritt, novelty rock & Robyn's place therein [Aaron Ma] Fwd: The Soft Boys 10/27 moved! [dances with virgos ] Re: magic (brief - please skip) [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Friday's Hoboken show. ["Maximilian Lang" ] Amazing Race (5% RH) [Tom Clark ] magic & sciences - what Fric thinks [Fric Chaud ] Re: REM/REW/PU/VU/dB's [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Uh Oh [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: magic (please skip and dance) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:07:06 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: REM/REW/PU/VU/dB's Sebastian on REM's Reveal: >>I think it's *much* better than Up. I think a lot of people do. To me, it sounds like half of an attempt to do "old style" REM, and that stuff works, but the songs that continue in the direction of "Up" aren't as good, and don't really advance the cause. "Up" has a really heartfelt feel to it and remains an unlikely favorite of mine. ________ The extended Paisley Underground family: For what it's worth, the non-LA bands I've most often seen lumped in with them are from elsewhere in California (Game Theory et. al.)... but I think we mostly agree that it was a pretty useless label, more regional than descriptive. Like "grunge" or "baggy" or whatever. ______________________ Miles: >>Sure, more bands than you can count have been inspired by the VU You know what I heard? Only (X amount) people ever bought their records, but every one of them started a band! Can you believe that? Isn't that wild? Nonetheless, excellent work in identifying the purest strains of the influence, guys. ______ Brian: >>Kim Rew was asked to join the dB's after Chris Stamey >>left. I for one think he would've been a great replacement/addition. >>He has a similar voice. Just having listened to "Bible of Bop" for the first time (odd, that), I found it really interesting that the tracks backed by the Soft Boys didn't sound much like the Soft Boys, but the tracks backed by the dB's sound a HELL of a lot like the dB's. It woulda been interesting. Kinda like if Peter Laughner had joined Television. >>It is a strong matter of opinion that the 1st 2 dB's records were far better than >>anything else they ever did (without Stamey). Actually, that's been verified in several scientific laboratory studies. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:29:16 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: Uh Oh I know you've all missed me! I sort of stopped playing in the Feg sandbox for a bit, but heck, I've brought a shovel and cat tird and I'm ready to dive in headfirst!!!! Please, let me quote a great philosopher, and just get to the point: "Uh Oh, it's Magic, when I'm with you... Uh Oh it's Magic YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE! I gots a hold on you, gots a hold on you, GOT'S A HOLD ON YOUUUUUU!!!" You silly widdle Fegs, sometimes the simple explanation is the best explanation... Lots-o-love, Blatzy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:34:48 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Sigh... why am I saying this, about that, now? Magic etc.: Isn't this kind of one of those "whatever gets you through the night" type of things? The only unquestionably false statement about the way reality is organized is: "I know for sure exactly how it's organized". Otherwise we're pretty much free to pick up whatever tools we find lying around to understand, or believe that we understand, what's happening around us, right? I guess I'm missing out on the reasons we've gotten so evangelical about our respective positions. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:47:47 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: REM/REW/PU/VU/dB's Rex wrote: >The extended Paisley Underground family: >For what it's worth, the non-LA bands I've most often seen lumped in with >them are from elsewhere in California (Game Theory et. al.)... but I think >we mostly agree that it was a pretty useless label, more regional than >descriptive. Like "grunge" or "baggy" or whatever. I would agree with that. The Dream Syndicate was labeled a Paisley Underground band, but I would put them down as a VU influenced band. They didn't sound at all like The Rain Parade, early Bangles or The Three O'Clock. So it must be the regional and timing thing that got them tossed into the PU. Luna is mentioned as a VU influenced band, but where does that leave Dean Wareham's previous group Galaxie 500? They just never seemed to get the respect that Luna does. I'll admit I listen to Lunapark and Penthouse a lot more than I listen to On Fire or Today. The extra musicians in Luna really make them a better band than the Galaxie 500 trio. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:51:20 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: magic (please skip and dance) >By your definition, what isn't magic? Magic underlies the whole universe, >right? If I go down to the store and buy some CDs, that's magic: I am >subject to physical forces whose ultimate roots are unexplained, while on >the level of ordinary human perceptions, I am doing something that I've >done before and which, by the principle of trial and error, is likely to >work. Huzzah! the magic is there. whether you buy music or don't. you can choose to tap into the magic or not. you can refuse to pay the outrageous prices and storm out swearing off music for good. you can see what others are buying and buy that. you can go in looking for something very specific and simply not find it there. you can find something else that you think you might like. there are plenty of folks that know when a certain album is being released and show up on that date to get the goodies. there's a certain knowledge base that's required for that. a fanatacism, if you will. no matter what you end up with, you can find something 'magical'. it's all a matter of your willingness to do so. there is magic in the music, in your enjoyment of it, and even in the process of buying it. there's magic in performing music and in shoplifting too. you can take all of this magic and do whatever you want with it. you can create a religion or just have fun. you can be inspired to write and perform your own music. you can sing in the shower. some people use music to influence people. you can deny the magic as well, as many critics will do, regarding specific artists; but, as we all know, 'bad' music still sells. i don't think that this is moronic. it's just proof that the magic is there if your looking for it. for some people, it's completely beyond them how someone can create music. mozart was called the voice of god. ken "if all your hopes survive, your destiny will arrive" the kenster ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:32:15 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: The merits of Merritt, novelty rock & Robyn's place therein So, and then, here's something else. Which is probably gonna get me in trouble. But it's a new topic, so hey. I've noticed that a lot of the people I've met who really like Steven Merritt are into what I consider to be a strain of novelty rock. Stuff that's kind of clever and intelligent and yet sort of "high-concept" nonetheless. Fans of this stuff seem to get as much of a kick out of describing the clever concept of the record to you as actually listening to it. "See, what the guy did was he took these songs etc... Isn't that cool?" (Generally they're describing the kind of concept album you say you're gonna make as a joke when you're drunk, and forget about the next day.) It's related to what I've heard referred to as "Encyclopedia Rock", with the cited examples being "69 Love Songs", John Linnell's album where all the songs are named after States, the Residents' "Commercial Album" and a few other such rigorous-yet-goofy formalistic experiments which elude me now (track-by-track remake or response albums like "Exile in Guyville", maybe). It's not exactly the same thing, but most of its adherents would indeed be people who still go to see They Might Be Giants on tour. Now, some of these people are among the few people I know from off this list who like Robyn! It seems odd to me... they can talk to me about Robyn, but their other musical reference points are way out of line with mine. They don't seem to know much about the psyche/folk/rock artists who influenced Robyn, or many of the punk and postpunk bands that emerged about when he did, or latter-day indie rock, or many of the other comparably idiosyncratic songwriters out there today... basically the musical continuum that's discussed here on this list. What they know instead is bad '80's new wave and "Goth", disco, a smattering of the best-selling electronica (the kind used in commercials), film soundtracks, a fair amount of musical theatre-type stuff and modern phony-edgey stuff like Marilyn Manson, Eminem or even Kid Rock (presumably for agitprop or "rebellious" value). Seems they like a lot of stuff based on what cool movie/TV show it was in, too. Presumably they like the funny/weird aspects of Robyn which might be linked in some ways to TMBG or Merritt. Which is fine; it just results in a radically different class of Robyn fan than we seem to get on the list. I'm basing this profile on four or five people I know personally... anyone else familiar with this breed of pseudo-feg, and what d'ya make of 'em? Or maybe I'm just a horrible musical and cultural snob. Such theories have been advanced before. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:02:05 -0700 From: drew Subject: you just have to make it two > From: "Rex.Broome" > > And how 'bout Remy Zero, who seem to me an even more humorless > offshoot of > Live's humorless take on REM-ery? At least before they tried to > become the > American Radiohead. Yeah. That's what we need. An American Radiohead. Humorless: probably, but I enjoy them a lot more than Live. The Golden Hum, in particular, is an extremely enjoyable and consistent album, even if it does sound distressingly like U2 (hi Quail! :)). > From: Sebastian Hagedorn [Reveal] > I think it's *much* better than Up. I really don't understand why it > sold > so badly. Well, the critics agreed with you for some reason, but I don't. I still find _Up_ much more rewarding. Maybe there were a lot of people who lost interest after _Up_, or a lot of people who simply agreed with me. > From: Eb > [Stephen Merritt] > I don't mind his voice so much...for me, it's more about the > bargain-basement synthesizer patches, which would sound stale and > tacky even if it *was* still the '80s. The melodies are pretty trite > and indifferent, as well. But then you get images like in the FBH > album's first track: "I'd rather be the queen at the guillotine/in a > bloody resurrection/than be losing your affection." "I'd rather be > the frog speaking Tagalog/as they start the vivisection/than be > losing your affection." Ha. Great fun. Ugh. I guess it's a question of taste, but those sorts of lyrics make me gag. I think it's more the "than be losing your affection" part than the rest of it, actually, though I hope he said "insurrection" instead of "resurrection," and I don't see how he could rhyme "frog" with "Tagalog" (which doesn't fit the meter that suggests). > From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) > > Many definitions do include 'supernatural gifts', and if you want to > include them in your definition, feel free. But it's analogous to me > having > said "I like animals", Greg having said "the mosquito is nasty", and me > saying "yes, but I like cats". Cats are animals, so my original > statement > still holds. This horse appears to have been beaten thoroughly to death, but I'll get my last kicks in: James, you said "I like animals," Greg said "the mosquito is nasty," and you said, "you're an ignorant fuck if you don't know that 'animals' refers only to 'four-legged carnivorous mammals.'" And: > a feeling for the infinite (which is simply another form of > spirituality). I'd like to disagree with the parenthetical here, but I fear we'll then end up with another semantic argument about what "spirituality" means, and no one wants that. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:08:02 -0700 From: barbara soutar Subject: The Longing for Magic Hello, I've read the discussion about magic with fluctuating interest. Perhaps it is inappropriate to keep the discussion going but I had a few things to say. The problem seems to be mainly in the definition of what magic is. Plainly, science came out of the search for magic. Alchemy was the search for a method to turn base metal into gold I believe.Magic is based on human longing and desire. The fact that it led to modern science is convenient and all, but doesn't satsify the heart's desire for gold. The life of pleasure and beauty that would result from such a success! Oh, and I'm sure that many alchemists were simultaneously searching for a way to make someone fall in love with them... wouldn't this be great? I believe that Kepler was searching for something called The Music of the Spheres, trying to correlate certain stars to certain musical notes. Which I see as a longing for universal truth and beauty. Much of the knowledge of Astronomy arises from the studies of those who were actually trying to figure out astrology, how human beings could be analysed by the arrangement of planets at the moment of their birth. Life is so complicated that it would be fabulous to have a simple system that outlines how and why people act the way they do. People are driven by magical desires more than a search for logic. This is the fuel for devoting whole lifetimes to the study of obscure subjects... there must be a magical wonderful outcome expected. Figuring out how the material world works is a swell side-benefit but to me, it just doesn't give the same kick that reaching the heart's desire would. My point is that the heart's longing for love, happiness and harmony is often stronger than the mind's longing for knowledge. I do believe that love and magic have a strong connection. Of course in saying this I choose to ignore what is called Black Magic. Barbara Soutar Victoria, B.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:27:52 +0000 From: "Montauk Daisy" Subject: sleep-talk Well, Ive finially done it, proved to myself I can still do my job in my sleep. But can I post to Feg? Ross: >For me, belief in omens or lucky behavior is mostly about composing my >head, & I guess that's a big factor (at least) in religious ritual. Major. I'm going to state the dead-obvious for a bit, cause I think it may help clarify this discussion. Magical thinking exists at the basis of consiousness. Its is normal thinking in a toddler-9 year old. After that, reason progressively developes and magical thinking is usually supressed or repressed by said reason and other mechanisms. Well and good, except that it does not really go away, and since its been repressed it can return in doubley harmful ways. One thing that religion and magic(and yes, art too) have in common is that they harness and direct magical thinking. Hence the power of magic or religion or art for good or ill. (This has nothing to do with the "truth" of religion or magic or art. I'm refering to them here as social constructs that can serve a healthy or unhealthy or a bit of both function.) Other portions of modern society also seek to direct and control magical thinking, marketing is a good example. In fact, it is magical thinking that pretty much drives the West's consumerist lifestyles, repressed magical thinking that is -not- given any other better outlet. Sometimes we consiously give it form to help ourselves, such as Ross mentioned. Sometimes we unconsiously give it form, then we end up with intractable symptoms, so that we are in pain and giving pain to others. There are potentially healthy ways of -using- magical thinking, which is reason's shadow. Its not going to go completely away, even if we wish it to;-). No amount of reason can destroy it. But reason and inspiration can recognize it and guide it. It is in capatalism's interests to exploit a lack of salutary outlets for its, since magical thinking can then be more easily used to fuel our wasteful and eternaly-frustrated need for objects as magical talismens denoting our own great personal juju. And it is in capatalism's intrests to co-op art and religion. Its done a pretty good job with these two, hasn't it? People fed on Brittany Spears and Jerry Falwell will be hungry again in 5 minutes for a new car or the next sensation. But magic, because it has been marginalized, is less easily co-opted. And this is one of the reasons I am interested in magic(and religion and art, in case no one has noticed;-) And this is why I think an over-emphasis on pure reason alone or science can only take us only so far. The point is not just to use reason to refute magical thinking, but to use reason to temper it, to refine it, to guide it. Hmmm, almost like Plato's charioteer with his two horses. You need both working together to really get anywhere. - ------------------------ Barbara: >My point is that the heart's longing for love, happiness and harmony is > often stronger than the mind's longing for knowledge. I do believe that > love and magic have a strong connection. That sort of ties in, dosnt it? Im sick to death of this joke. Is it over yet? Kay _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:10:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: The merits of Merritt, novelty rock & Robyn's place therein On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Rex.Broome wrote: > Fans of this stuff seem to get as much of a kick out of describing the > clever concept of the record to you as actually listening to it. "See, > what the guy did was he took these songs etc... Isn't that cool?" Blurgh. I think the problem is that this conceptual stuff can be very liberating and inspiring for the artist as a way of *working*. As an aspect of the music that a listener is supposed to enjoy, though, there are very few people who can pull it off. (Okay, I can't think of any that work for me, off the top of my head, but I'm not thinking all that hard.) > It's related to what I've heard referred to as "Encyclopedia Rock", with > the cited examples being "69 Love Songs", John Linnell's album where all > the songs are named after States, Except wait -- Linnell's album had very little to do with the states themselves, and many of the songs were his best stuff in years. (His contributions to the next real TMBG record certainly weren't that good, except for maybe "Bangs".) And, for that matter, I like 69 Love Songs but don't see it as much of a success on a grand conceptual level... bits like "Punk Rock Love" go by in a flash if you think of them as filler, but if it's supposed to be a comment on punk rock, or the punk equivalent of other songs on the album, it's inane. Not that this sort of music doesn't get pooped on a lot already. > (track-by-track remake or response albums like "Exile in > Guyville", maybe). I thought that was a myth. > anyone else familiar with this breed of pseudo-feg, and what d'ya make > of 'em? I feel like I know the profile you're talking about, but I've never run into a Robyn-fan stream within it myself. And I'm not sure what I think about it! I tend to like a lot of musicians that turn these folks on, so I wonder if I'm actually one of them even as I'm wincing at their wide-eyed fascination with how that Neutral Milk Hotel record is all about World War II. (I'm not saying it's not; I'm saying that didn't change my opinion of the album's enjoyability from "sure, not bad".) a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:21:28 -0400 From: dances with virgos Subject: Fwd: The Soft Boys 10/27 moved! this just in... >From: "Information" >To: >Subject: The Soft Boys 10/27 moved! >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:59:18 -0400 > >Sunday, October 27 Soft Boys has moved to the Mercury Lounge!! > >Your Bowery Ballroom tickets will be honored at the door @ the Mercury >Lounge - >If you purchased WILL CALL tix your name WILL be at the door, please bring >your ID and the credit card you purchased tix with. >DOORS 8 / SHOW 9 > >If you 'd like to go to the Saturday Oct. 26 Soft Boys show >at The Bowery Ballroom instead - 10/27 tickets will be honored there, too. >DOORS 9 / SHOW 10 > >Mercury Lounge >217 E Houston >Between Ludlow St and Ave A >212.260.4700 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:30:08 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: magic (brief - please skip) >On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, James Dignan wrote: >> Jason, Jeffrey, Greg, and Aaron seems intent on carrying on this ridiculous >> discussion, so I shall humour them, but this is definitely reducing my >> interest in the list. > >When in doubt, let the thread drop, James! I've skimmed umpteen posts >recently about American groups who I've never heard of. When I hear the >words "VU-influenced band" I reach for my Delete button. agreed. It's all very simple. I said something th Greg, who foamed at the mouth at his usual way. It being 2am, I made a flippant one line reply and forgot the smily. Everyone jumped on me and - since it was by then 2am again and I was drunk, I decided to try to reply. Never a good idea. However, it seems it is largely a question of terminology. Hell, even when I tried to pin 'science' down to something it's supposed to be I was shunted off to 'philosophy'! >The one point that I would like to add is that the Crowley perspective on >magic [...] Neitscheans and Nazis [...] Himmler [...] ah, the Godwin method of ending threads! Oh, and apologies to Aaron if I upset you with the 'fuck-all' and 'moronic' comments. They were not meant to imply at all that the people involved in the debate, or their ideas, were moronic. I stand by the idea that the debate itself was moronic, though. It was, after all, based on a flippant one-liner. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:47:34 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Friday's Hoboken show. Hi, Friday is fast approaching, is it time to plan a dinner or something for before the show? Hoboken has a few good/affordable restaurants, including Maxwell's itself. Anyone up for getting together? Max _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:58:44 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Amazing Race (5% RH) Finally got a chance to watch this week's Amazing Race (CBS, Wednesday). Let me just say I'm a total geek for this show. It combines my love of world travel with my love of making fun of stupid people. Anyway, in this episode, the teams had to travel from Cancun to Cambridge, where they "punted" down the river and then had to find Parkers Peace to catch a bus to Aberdeen. No sign of the police station, although I hear it's still there (as are the police). http://www.cbs.com/primetime/amazing_race3/ http://www.cbs.com/primetime/amazing_race3/show/episode03/ar3route_detour.sh tml - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:59:52 -0400 From: Fric Chaud Subject: magic & sciences - what Fric thinks I couldn't agree with you more! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:09:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: REM/REW/PU/VU/dB's On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Rex.Broome wrote: > Sebastian on REM's Reveal: > >>I think it's *much* better than Up. > > I think a lot of people do. To me, it sounds like half of an attempt to do > "old style" REM, and that stuff works, but the songs that continue in the > direction of "Up" aren't as good, and don't really advance the cause. "Up" > has a really heartfelt feel to it and remains an unlikely favorite of mine. My brief rant on _Reveal_: the sequencing sucks. There are too many slowish songs in a row (actually, too many overall), and several of them in a row are even in the same or closely related keys. But the run from _Chronic Town_ through, oh, at least _Document_? Magic! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:10:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Uh Oh On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > "Uh Oh, it's Magic, when I'm with you... Uh Oh it's Magic YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE! > I gots a hold on you, gots a hold on you, GOT'S A HOLD ON YOUUUUUU!!!" Y'know, when this song came out, I was in the third grade or so, and a friend *insisted* the lyrics ran "Oh, oh, oh it's my dick..." This might explain a lot. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::[clever or pithy quote]:: __[source of quote]__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:16:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: magic (please skip and dance) On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Ken Ostrander wrote: > the magic is there. whether you buy music or don't. I think the correct line is "the magic's in the music and the music's in me." > you can take all of this magic and do whatever you want with it. you > can create a religion or just have fun. you can be inspired to write > and perform your own music. you can sing in the shower. some people > use music to influence people. I think it was that Barry Manilow song in which he ripped off Chopin - "Could This Be Magic?" Do I win a prize for being the first (and hopefully last) person to mention Barry Manilow on this list? I'll trade my geek crown for it! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some see things as they are, and say "Why?" ::Some see things as they could be, and say "Why not?" ::Some see things that aren't there, and say "Huh?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:20:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: The merits of Merritt, novelty rock & Robyn's place therein On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > > (track-by-track remake or response albums like "Exile in > > Guyville", maybe). > > I thought that was a myth. What I'd read (I think) was not that the Stones album was an influence or a template on the writing of the songs, but that having never made an album before, Phair *sequenced* existing tracks using the sequencing of the Stones album as her basis. Considering that several _Guyville_ tracks had been written years before and floating around on the _Girlysounds_ tapes, the notion that the album was written song-by-song as a response to the Stones' album doesn't seem to hold much water. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::[clever or pithy quote]:: __[source of quote]__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:27:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: sleep-talk On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Montauk Daisy wrote: > Other portions of modern society also seek to direct and control magical > thinking, marketing is a good example. I'd agree with you except for that word "thinking." Marketing works best the least one thinks about it. The moment any advertising is subjected to the least analysis, it dissipates into dust. Consciously, at least. Here's another example of magical thinking at work: newspapers that print things like "f*ck." Now anyone old enough to read knows that that means "fuck." The only possible explanation for omitting the one letter is a sort of unacknowledged belief in the power of the word itself, a power which somehow is reduced by omitting one letter (meaning is crystal clear, of course, regardless). This is why I believe that censorship is ****, because *** and *******. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some see things as they are, and say "Why?" ::Some see things as they could be, and say "Why not?" ::Some see things that aren't there, and say "Huh?" ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #332 ********************************