From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #282 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, September 11 2002 Volume 11 : Number 282 Today's Subjects: ----------------- help me identify this band? (OT) [HSatterfld@aol.com] Re: they both sting [Stewart Russell ] Re: they both sting ["matt sewell" ] Re: help me identify this band? (OT) [Stewart Russell ] Re: Can of Bees tour dates [gSs ] how's your bird's lumbago? [rtaylor@dlalaw.com] Re: CvB News ["Brian Hoare" ] Fitting Tribute ["Golden Hind" ] yet another 9/11 poem [rtaylor@dlalaw.com] atlanta soft boys show [guapo stick ] SB Chicago Tix ["Mike Wells" ] Deliciously chitinous! ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Fitting Tribute [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Fitting Tribute ["Golden Hind" ] lyrics question [bayard ] ghost ships ["ross taylor" ] Re: Deliciously chitinous! ["Jonathan Fetter" ] anybody ever eat a tarantula? [bayard ] Re: Can of Bees tour dates [hamish_simpson@agilent.com] WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH ["*FS Thomas*" ] Re: WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH [Jeff Dwarf <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:57:34 -0400 From: HSatterfld@aol.com Subject: help me identify this band? (OT) I have this mp3 file: http://members.aol.com/eldritchblvd/CityOfAngels_Anywhere.mp3. It is quite lovely, if I knew who it was, I would go buy all their CDS. Unfortunately, whoever made it neglected to set the artist track tag. (D'oh!) There's a female lead vocalist, there are harmonies and also quiet guitar strumming. I probably got it from somebody on this list, I get most of my new material from here, mp3.com, or Amazon. Can anybody tell me who this is? thanks, Hollie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:07:14 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: they both sting matt sewell wrote: > > There's a saying over here - bicarbonate for bees, vinegar for wasps... meat tenderizer or fresh papaya might work better. > Bloddy mosquitos, though, are a different matter (I live right next to > the canal)! if you're one of those people (says Mr Nordern) who is lucky enough to secrete Vitamin B, they'll leave you alone. Lots o' good beer, fresh bread, or failing that, B Supplement tablets should see you alright. 'Least you ain't got birch flies to deal with ... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:11:36 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: they both sting Well, I'm lucky, really - I usually get about 1-2 bites every couple of weeks, as Chrissy really is the first choice of discerning mossies. I'm am totally B-vitamined up, as in any given week I drink my body weight in guinness... apparently it's good for you..! Cheers Matt >From: Stewart Russell >>Bloddy mosquitos, though, are a different matter (I live right next >>to >>the canal)! > >if you're one of those people (says Mr Nordern) who is lucky enough >to secrete Vitamin B, they'll leave you alone. Lots o' good beer, >fresh bread, or failing that, B Supplement tablets should see you >alright. > >'Least you ain't got birch flies to deal with ... > > Stewart - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:40:59 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: help me identify this band? (OT) HSatterfld@aol.com wrote: > > I have this mp3 file: http://members.aol.com/eldritchblvd/CityOfAngels_Anywhere.mp3. > It is quite lovely, if I knew who it was, I would go buy all their CDS. Patti Rothberg, from here: https://www.enginecompanyrecords.com/artistDetails.asp?ArtistID=8 Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:52:43 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: they both sting On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, matt sewell wrote: > There's a saying over here - bicarbonate for bees, vinegar for wasps... > although I find if you talk to bees or wasps (and in fact many other > insects), they'll get the message - thus I've never been stung by wasp, > bee or hornet. All right for some. We went on our first 2002 visit to Devon last w/e and I was savaged by a wasp which sneaked up behind me in the car and went straight for the back of the neck. Not having seen it, I didn't have a chance to say hallo ... None of the messages I have looked at have mentioned the crucial difference between wopses and bees, which is that bees employ kamikaze tactics - one sting and then they die - whereas wopses can just keep on stinging till they get bored. Maybe this is only true of English stripey stingers? Or maybe it's just an old wives' tale? - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:17:10 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Can of Bees tour dates On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Stewart Russell wrote: > what is it with the weird way n.americans classify bees and wasps? > They call bees bees. But they also call wasps bees. How strange is that? while some n.americans might call a wasp a bee or a bee a wasp, most don't. at least not around these parts. those who do are classifying generally, like people do. it is done everywhere that there has ever been at least two things with any similarity. people do it with a variety of things like cars, trees, cannabis, soda pop, even beer. most guys do it with girls and pop serial murderers do it with victims. heck, the girls are even doing it now. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:44 -0400 From: rtaylor@dlalaw.com Subject: how's your bird's lumbago? Rex on Nextdoorland/ Tom Verlaine/TV -- I'm not as big a fan of that Television reunion. I felt it lacked the drama & energy of old Television, even of Verlaine albums like Flashlight. Some of the problem being the songwriting, some the changed guitar sound. Verlaine had gone to a jazzier sound, like a similar late change in Jorma Kaukonen's guitar sound, whose earlier sound Verlaine reminded me of with his earlier sound. But anyway, I've gotten to be a big fan of Jewels for Sophia, & if this sounds like that, I'll be a happy man. Incidentally, on the Television front, I'm glad to see that Richard Lloyd's excellent 1st solo album is now out on Collector's Choice. - --- Gene -- For some reason "Lazy Sunday" has been a huge favorite of mine ever since it came out. I love the album, but it has some weird 60s mixes, i.e. "Song of a Baker" w/ bass & drums hard left. Since I listen on headphones a lot now, I've realized I have a fetish or something for the rhythm section in the center. A problem for me w/ the "new" stereo of the Stones Chess sessions on 12 x 5 ... And I've recently enjoyed Clapton, Townsend etc. playing "Rollin Over" on the expanded Rainbow Concert. - --- Ross Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:42:07 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: CvB News >Subject: CvB, Luna News >SpinART Records is set to release Cigarettes and Carrot Juice: The >Santa Cruz Years, a five-CD retrospective of 80's art-punk weirdos >Camper Van Beethoven, on November 5th. The set will include Camper's >first three records-- Telephone Free Landslide Victory (1985), II & III >(1986), and Camper Van Beethoven (also 1986)-- as well as the 1993 >odds-and-sods collection Camper Vantiquities and a live disc. SpinART >promises the set will be beefed up with "hits, rarities, and previously >unreleased songs Oh happy, happy, happy news. While I don't care for TFLV, I've been hoping to find II&III and Vantiquities(which I have not heard) on cd for a long while. A spare copy of CvB will be a small price to pay. Although I haven't succumbed to the temptation of Tusk, this will round the cd collection of very nicely. Played Key Lime Pie yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed. Still undecided about oct 16/Winchester, are advance tickets available? Brian np Boredoms, Pop Tatari _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:44:03 +0000 From: "Golden Hind" Subject: Fitting Tribute 1- Thanks to the tech Fegs who wrote me offlist. I know alot more now than I knew when I wrote my initial message. 2- Thanks James for your well wishes to American Fegs. 3- Im of two minds about all the memorials today. If they look offical they make me think of Bush's warmongering stance and I blank out. But if they start talking about the actual people involved, give personal details about the humans killed, I turn into a marshmellow. But if they started to read similar descriptions of induvidual civilian Afghanies killed, I'd react the same way. So this is my idea for a fitting 9/11 tribute. Ask the world -- "who wants war?" Take everybody out who raises their hands and kill them. Thats a very Feg feeling, isnt it? Especially since the question, which makes war on war, would doom the people who asked it and carried it out. Kay _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:44:27 -0400 From: rtaylor@dlalaw.com Subject: yet another 9/11 poem Well, the list seems a little slow. I pretty much wrote this in my head walking home that morning. It just came out in Seneca Review. Appropriately for me, it's called NOTHING TO SAY we're running away we're hurrying back to our children it's a beautiful day your pinstriped suit brushes your sneakers the traffic's one-way we're out-walking the SUV's there's nothing to say the topics all need further research our feet on the clay from the tow-path we still see the drivers we're running away we're winded because of not knowing it's a beautiful day they say that truth is the first casualty the traffic's one-way we have neither cell phone nor radio there's nothing to say but plain repetition does something our feet on the clay we agree that we're making good time we're running away at random we trot out our guesses it's a beautiful day with small cumulii teased by the wind the traffic's one-way some even find rollerblades useful there's nothing to say I feel stupid toting a novel our feet on the clay the neighborhood spread out before us Ross Taylor - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------- This message expresses only the views of the sender and is not to be attributed to Dow, Lohnes & Albertson, PLLC or any other person. Reproduction or distribution without this disclaimer is prohibited. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:21:03 -0700 From: guapo stick Subject: atlanta soft boys show the variety playhouse has finally added the soft boys show to their listings. 8:30 show, $17.50 adv/$20 day of show. according to ticketmaster, tickets go on-sale at 10am on friday, september 13th. ticket info is at . the direct link for ticketmaster, if you choose to go that route, is: https://ticketing.ticketmaster.com/cgi/purchasePage.asp?event_id=E00352B9FBDAC82 woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:32:30 -0500 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: SB Chicago Tix I was talking with Dolph over the weekend and forgot to post this to the list, but fair warning: TicketBastard has taken "convenience" fees to a new, egregious level...for the $20 SB's show here 10/28 they are charging an additional $10.50 (!). Fuckers. I grabbed mine at the box office, and I'm thinking that if anyone else is firming up plans to come in for the show I'll be happy to make another box office run next week. If you're interested let me know offlist, thanks. Michael "any word of an opening act?" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:10:28 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Deliciously chitinous! Ross: >>Only eaten a couple of chocolate ants. I've only ever eaten an ant by accident-- it was on the rim of a cup of water. Bitter as all hell. Don't see the appeal of those fried locusts and whatnot in "pre-Columbian cuisine" either. Something about eating the chitinous carapace wholesale. Although fried softshell crabs have always tasted mighty good to me. It's weird that ocean-going arthropods generally tast so yummy. Do they have a fundamentally different kind of meat in 'em from their land-going brethren? Or do they just have the advantage of getting bigger? Among the phyla of invertebrates I have consumed are arthropods, molluscs, and echinoderms (specifically sea urchins)... I've seen jellyfish on sushi menus but I've never been able to get it up to actually consume a coelenterate. Dunno about arachnids... there are a lot of urban legends about spiders crawling into peoples' mouths while they sleep. Doubt it, though. No sponges, either. - -Rex "King Philip Came Over From Germany Somehow" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:07:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Fitting Tribute On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Golden Hind wrote: > So this is my idea for a fitting 9/11 tribute. > Ask the world -- "who wants war?" > Take everybody out who raises their hands and kill them. > > Thats a very Feg feeling, isnt it? Especially since the question, which > makes war on war, would doom the people who asked it and carried it out. This reminds me of a wonderful "Leviathan" cartoon (but aren't they all) in which Levi invents a gas which will kill everyone who (details murky) wishes harm to another...with predictable, in-frame results when it gets "loose" in his cartoon world... Plus, the Leviathan book is Robyn-recommended! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::You think your country needs you, but you know it never will:: __Elvis Costello__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:55:39 +0000 From: "Golden Hind" Subject: Re: Fitting Tribute Ross, thanks for the poem. Right now Im working in our lobby with a blaring TV right behind me. Id rather have poetry -- but thats not an option. It should be. As to digestion, choclate ants and jellyfish. I ate a lightning bug this summer. We were biking at dusk, my mouth was open and ... I wish it made me glow. But just felt funny as it hit the back of my throut. I ordered NL on amazon -- does this mean I will be the last here to get a copy? Kay, not suprised she stubbed her toe on a Levinthean concern. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: lyrics question what is the word at :55 in "Japanese Captain" that sounds like "fuck"? - -- http://glasshotel.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:19:54 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: ghost ships >So can anyone give me a line on the following missing pieces of the >puzzle... not to say that I would accept mp3's of them or anything, but... >Another Ghost Ship, Hoodoo Gurus >Death Ship, Hoodoo Gurus I think these are the same & I introduced the 1st, mistaken, title. It's from Stoneage Romeos, currently out of print. I only have a cassett, which I would be happy to put on a cassett for you (can't do tape to cd). However, it is fortunately forthcoming Oct. 1-- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006BXE2/qid=1031768030/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1621275-4992858?v=glance&s=music Either way, it's a great album. I'm using yet another address, since my main Eudora account is malfunctionary. Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan Fetter" Subject: Re: Deliciously chitinous! On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:10:28 -0700, "Rex.Broome" wrote : > Ross: > >>Only eaten a couple of chocolate ants. > > I've only ever eaten an ant by accident-- it was on the rim of a cup of > water. Bitter as all hell. Don't see the appeal of those fried locusts and > whatnot in "pre-Columbian cuisine" either. Something about eating the > chitinous carapace wholesale. Although fried softshell crabs have always > tasted mighty good to me. Deep-fried giant water bugs, crickets, etc., smell like burnt insects, regardless of how much chili sauce you use. > Among the phyla of invertebrates I have consumed are arthropods, molluscs, > and echinoderms (specifically sea urchins)... I've seen jellyfish on sushi > menus but I've never been able to get it up to actually consume a > coelenterate. At the end of my Invertebrate Zoology class, the professor hosted a pot-luck. The main course was "Five Phylum Stew." Arthropods, molluscs, echinoderms, coelenterates (dried jellyfish), and tunicates. It was interesting. > Dunno about arachnids... there are a lot of urban legends about spiders > crawling into peoples' mouths while they sleep. Doubt it, though. No > sponges, either. I'd probably pass on these (Warning: TGQ, don't click this link): http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story2&u=/020903/161/26a7s.html&e=6&ncid= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: anybody ever eat a tarantula? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20020903/od_nm/spiders_dc&e=2 a guy i know was there, and tried one. he said the legs tasted like french fries. re. 9/11: http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/09/11/forbidden_letters/index.html interesting article about people's thoughts a year ago. =b ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:22:27 -0600 From: hamish_simpson@agilent.com Subject: Re: Can of Bees tour dates Stewie sez: > I think there needs to be an ANSI-standard yellow jacket, as I've seen > folks from CO and CT disagree as to what they are. In Northern CA they sell YellowJacket traps with piccies of what we call wasps. When they fly around peoples heads here they get called bees. It kinda makes a difference 'cso one stings acid the other alkali so you better know which before you throw the bicarb or the vinegar on. Course I can never remember which is which so I'm no better off!!!! Matt sez: > There's a saying over here - bicarbonate for bees, vinegar for wasps... Aha, there you go. The power of the partially unread Digest! I prefer bee stings 'cos you get the gratification of knowing they just ripped their insides out and will die shortly. Not a good advert for evolutionary theory :) H n.p. "Fix Your Own CDROM" by our IT Dept!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:00:07 -0400 From: "*FS Thomas*" Subject: WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Golden Hind wrote: > > > So this is my idea for a fitting 9/11 tribute. > > Ask the world -- "who wants war?" > > Take everybody out who raises their hands and kill them. > > > > Thats a very Feg feeling, isnt it? Especially since the question, which > > makes war on war, would doom the people who asked it and carried it out. Eh. Kay, I respect your disdain for war. I, along with the majority--if not all--of the people on this list share your feelings. I do not, however, share your dislike for our government or its posturings on the Middle East. Were you to read the newspaper, watch TV, or visit any of the online news sources (and believed only half of what you see there) then you would come to a realization: Hussein is unstable. Prior to, during, and after the Gulf War he has, time and again, proven himself so. Discounting the intelligence reports of his on-going pursuit of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, you only have to look to his treatment of the UN inspectors in the time since the war to see you're dealing with someone with something terrible to hide. The world is faced with a person who gassed an indigenous minority population and a government whose tinkering with chemical and bio weapons has been described as haphazard, even reckless. The world, sooner or later, is going to have to deal with him. In the face of a crushing defeat, Hussein signed a treaty. Barely had the foreign troops left his country when he started breaking the very tenants of the treaty. If his government's turning away of UN-led inspection teams from any site deemed a palace (that would, after all, infringe upon their sovereignty) wasn't enough to justify a renewed campaign, his subsequent expulsion of those same inspectors is. Prior to this country's current administration we suffered from what can only be defined as weak diplomatic and military leadership. That weakness combined with the depths to which the UN's leadership has slunk* has allowed Iraq's leadership to run unfettered. Now they are on the brink of becoming a nuclear power. At another time in recent history the world's leaders were given an opportunity to take preemptive action against a rising dictator. A leader who, while at the helm of his country, was breaking a treaty in order to build military power. Chamberlain Came crawling from Munich With one piece of paper He waved at the camera Peace in our time Oh thank you Herr Hitler Tell that to the Polish Tell that to the Jews Now, Kay (and everyone), I don't encourage military action lightly. I take into account the lives it would cost on both sides, the resources it would consume, and the strains it would put on our international relations. Those associated costs, however, need to be weighed against the intangible cost of the unknown. If military action now can prevent a 1930's-era Germany rising up in the Middle East, then it has my vote. If the States have to take action without approval of the UN and our regular allies, then fine. In fact, from a militaristic and diplomatic point of view we would be better off. Accountable to no one while at the same time bearing full responsibility for our actions and their repercussions. I certainly wouldn't wish upon anyone the guilt of knowing that they could have prevented another regime on par with Nazi Germany from rising, but stood idly by. - -f. * Take a look at the countries that make up the UN's Security and Human Rights councils. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:00:29 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH on 9/11/02 1:00 PM, *FS Thomas* at ferris@ochremedia.com wrote: > > In the face of a crushing defeat, Hussein signed a treaty. Barely had the > foreign troops left his country when he started breaking the very tenants of > the treaty. If his government's turning away of UN-led inspection teams > from any site deemed a palace (that would, after all, infringe upon their > sovereignty) wasn't enough to justify a renewed campaign, his subsequent > expulsion of those same inspectors is. Prior to this country's current > administration we suffered from what can only be defined as weak diplomatic > and military leadership. That weakness combined with the depths to which > the UN's leadership has slunk* has allowed Iraq's leadership to run > unfettered. Now they are on the brink of becoming a nuclear power. > I'm not going to argue with this except to say "What does this have to do with ripping out the entrails of every Al-Qaeda member?" I think W and his puppet masters are diverting too much valuable energy away from bringing closure to this year-long hunt for those responsible for murdering over 3,000 innocent people. Yeah, sure Saddam supports middle eastern terrorist organizations, but so does Saudi Arabia, and all you hear from the gub'mint about that is how nice the Saudi's are. While seeing and hearing all this "day of rememberance" stuff, I'm just reminded of how little we've accomplished in stopping these groups that have sprung up out of the bowels of hell. Vengefully yours, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:12:55 -0400 From: "*FS Thomas*" Subject: Re: WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Clark" > > I'm not going to argue with this except to say "What does this have to do > with ripping out the entrails of every Al-Qaeda member?" I think W and his > puppet masters are diverting too much valuable energy away from bringing > closure to this year-long hunt for those responsible for murdering over > 3,000 innocent people. Yeah, sure Saddam supports middle eastern terrorist > organizations, but so does Saudi Arabia, and all you hear from the gub'mint > about that is how nice the Saudi's are. > While seeing and hearing all this "day of rememberance" stuff, I'm just > reminded of how little we've accomplished in stopping these groups that have > sprung up out of the bowels of hell. Well it's akin to looking to a needle in a haystack. A needle in a haystack where three quarters of the hay is willing to dress the needle like a piece of hay and tell you, time and again, "no sir, I have not seen any needle around here." There's always the chance (and this is the conspiracy theorist in me) that he was killed early in the campaign in Tora Bora and the gub'mint's keeping it mum to maintain support for an operation we otherwise wouldn't have any business continuing. The Saudis should be dealt with. I can't remember where it was that I read it--perhaps in Reuters--but there was an interview with a Saudi national and he was complaining that they used to be treated as first-class citizens--not being harassed at customs or having difficulty getting visas, etc. Now, however, all that's changed, and he was upset because they're not given the special treatment they so deserve. (Har har har). This just today out of yahoo.com: (From London) - ---- Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammed of the radical group Al-Muhajiroun said the meeting at Finsbury Park Mosque, titled "Sept. 11, 2001: A Towering Day in History," argues that the attacks were justified because Muslims must defend themselves against armed aggression. Al-Muhajiroun says its goal is to make Britain an Islamic state. - ---- Lovely. Best brush up on your Koran, you UK fegs. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:15:10 -0700 From: drew Subject: six legs, wings, and a stinger >From: Ken Weingold > >No, I always hear Americans referring to Yellow Jackets as bees. I think this is more due to a lack of close inspection than any linguistic regularity. In my experience, Americans who stay in the general area long enough to make an identification call them "yellowjackets" or occasionally "hornets," never "bees" and almost never "wasps." >From: rtaylor@dlalaw.com >I've also been stung by a "velvet ant," a bad wingless wasp. And a fuzzy one, n'est-ce pas? Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:18:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: WAS: Fitting Tribute NOW: World views and a touch of RH Tom Clark wrote: > on 9/11/02 1:00 PM, *FS Thomas* at ferris@ochremedia.com wrote: > > In the face of a crushing defeat, Hussein signed a treaty. Barely > > had the foreign troops left his country when he started breaking > > the very tenets of the treaty. If his government's turning away of > > UN-led inspection teams from any site deemed a palace (that would, > > after all, infringe upon their sovereignty) wasn't enough to > > justify a renewed campaign, his subsequent expulsion of those same > > inspectors is. Prior to this country's current administration we > > suffered from what can only be defined as weak diplomatic > > and military leadership. That weakness combined with the depths to > > which the UN's leadership has slunk* has allowed Iraq's leadership > > to run unfettered. Now they are on the brink of becoming a nuclear > > power. > > > > I'm not going to argue with this except to say "What does this have > to do with ripping out the entrails of every Al-Qaeda member?" I > think W and his puppet masters are diverting too much valuable energy > away from bringing closure to this year-long hunt for those > responsible for murdering over 3,000 innocent people. Yeah, sure > Saddam supports middle eastern terrorist organizations, but so does > Saudi Arabia, and all you hear from the gub'mint about that is how > nice the Saudi's are. Exactly. W is using this as an opportunity to erase one of the more blatant embarassing remnants of his father's presidency: the ultimate failure of daddy's great "victory" during operation: desert re-election campaign. There's no denying that Saddam is a relentlessly unrepentant motherfucker. But if we did succeed in removing him, we'd just replace him with _another_ relentlessly unrepentant motherfucker, just one who is our little puppet. Sort of like Saddam was pre-1990. Just like we did in Afghanistan, where we replaced the Taliban with what is for all intents and purposes Taliban-lite. To say women are better off (as Bush and his apparapchiks[sp] keep doing) without the Taliban may be techinically true, but only in the sense that a woman is better off being raped by a HIV+ guy wearing a condom that one _not_ wearing one. If there was a chance that the regime succeeding Hussein would be democratic, the invasion might be acceptable to me. But we have no interest in there being democracies in the Middle East (save Israel); after all, democracies might decided to cut off our oil supply. Or maybe even try to differsity their economies. And if Dick Cheney goes on TV one more time talking about how evil Saddam is, I swear I'll puke. Funny how that evil wasn't relevant during the Clinton administration when Cheney and Halliburton were doing so much business with Hussein. > While seeing and hearing all this "day of rememberance" stuff, I'm > just reminded of how little we've accomplished in stopping these > groups that have sprung up out of the bowels of hell. Well, all the better to make sure that there is a second term to W's administration. Osama will be found in September or October of 2004, and not a moment sooner. ===== "If we don't allow journalists, politicians, and every two-bit Joe Schmo with a cause to grandstand by using 9-11 as a lame rhetorical device, then the terrorists have already won." -- "Shredder" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #282 ********************************