From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #243 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, July 29 2002 Volume 11 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Globe and Mail Review [barbara soutar ] More about the C word [shmac@ix.netcom.com (Scott Hunter McCleary)] review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' [R Edward Poole ] Re: Globe and Mail Review [Stewart Russell ] Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' [steve ] Re: kill kill switch [Stewart Russell ] here's one we prepared in advance (mostly about Words, actually) ["ross t] Re: here's one we prepared in advance [Michael R Godwin ] Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: here's one we prepared *earlier* [Stewart Russell Subject: Globe and Mail Review Hello, When I read this article I thought I should send it along to the list. Wish I could have made it to the concert but I live 3000 miles away! I bought the Robin Sings CD and listen to it often, espcially the stripes disc. Best to everyone! Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia The review: "Hitchcock knockin on Dylans door Saturday, July 27, 2002 POP Robyn Hitchcock At the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto on Wednesday Reviewed by Bill Reynolds English singer-songwriter Robyn Hitchcock began his Toronto performance ridiculing the Pope, but ended making music just like a Dylan. The flesh of John Paul may have been available for the fawning, but at the Horseshoe Tavern on Wednesday the spirit of Bob was more inspiring. Hitchcock pointed out both the Pope and the Rolling Stones were in town, and both set out to accomplish the same goal  give people something to believe in. The same could be said for the mischievous songwriter with a twisted sense of humour, although belief in His Bobness was paramount this night. He stands, looking like a Greenwich Village folksinger (well, except for the extraordinarily gaudy shirt), with his acoustic guitar and harmonica rack. He sports full reverence and awe for the man whose songs convinced him to join Dylans academy of philosopher kings so many years ago. Hitchcock has often been called eccentric, but hes more like an old-fashioned aesthete. His crisp and precise elocution, his superb sense of comic timing, and his odd tales of love and lust are brought into sharp focus without a rhythm section or solid body guitar. When the acoustic strum borders on tedium, Hitchcock lets loose a standup comedy routine on the pretext of introducing material. Among numerous originals, he performed three renditions from the latest CD, a double album of Bob tunes called Robyn Sings. His take on Not Dark Yet got inside the songs deep-felt angst over aging, with the accompanying exhaustion with human moral frailty. Hitchcock self-mockingly noted that there is a small guy with curly hair lurking inside him, but its clear he graduated magna cum laude from the Dylan academy many years ago. Special to the Globe and Mail" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:50:59 -0400 From: shmac@ix.netcom.com (Scott Hunter McCleary) Subject: More about the C word Natalie Jane said: >"Cunt" really only sounds good with certain British (mainly northern) and >Scottish accents. Never been with me while I'm driving, have ya, Gnat? ;-) I don't have nearly the aplomb that, say, Derek and Clive might, but I do okay. It's my favorite swear word by far, but I find myself using the truncated "Jesus Fuck"(ing Christ) as my first choice much more these days. Cunt is also Bruce Willis's favorite curse word if his interview on Inside the Actor's Studio is to believed. Maybe it's because it is my A-bomb curse word of choice, but cunt hardly registers with me anymore. I find myself reacting much more to a female Canadian friend's rather libertine use of the word "twat." Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's because it's coming out of the mouth of a third grade teacher. I dunno... One more twat story: I see several cars fairly regularly on my way to work with big decals across the tops of their windshields that picture Warner Bros's Tweety Bird saying, "I tawt I saw a puddy tat!" Well, in your rear view mirror, tawt is... you guessed it. Do people KNOW this kind of thing? I mean, they spell AMBULANCE backwards on the front of the vehicles on purpose, don't they? Anyone else (particularly you more ecto types) on the list familiar with a NY band called Hem? I am absolutely in LOVE with a couple of their songs. Scott ========= SH McCleary Prodigal Dog Communications PO Box 6163 Arlington, VA 22206 shmac@prodigaldog.com www.prodigaldog.com www.1480kHz.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:37:18 -0400 From: R Edward Poole Subject: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' saw 'minority report' (loved it; coulda done without speilbergian schmaltz last 20 minutes or so), saw 'powerpuff girls' (major event movie - highly recommended), saw MIBII (3 laughs, many more groans), refuse to see 'goldmember' (leave off the dead horse, ok?), but finally saw the movie of the summer last night: reign of fire. reign of fire rocks. really. here's a b-movie that's comfortable with its own tawdriness. it glories in it. it's 100% cliched and predictable, and knows that the only reason your ass is in the theatre is to see some big fire breathing mofos kick up some major shit. and it delivers on that score (not even making you wait an hour like most flicks). it's kinda like 'starship troopers' in the way promises no more than cheap b-movie fare and is happy with that state of affairs. ('troopers' was marginally deeper, especially the propaganda segments, but at heart is was a monster flick -- kill evil space bugs!). oh, and every second that matthew mcconaughey is on screen is a pure joy -- he is so incredibly over-the-top, so laughable in his intensity, that his every line is charged with (unintentional) comedy. example: he beats his chest & assets his leadership; his decisions gets lots and lots of people fried; so, for the next act, he turns to the other male lead and intones: 'this time you lead. we follow.' and, it's as if he has, all at once, acknowledged his fallibility, atoned for the slaughter he caused, and crowned his rival as the new alpha male (he even gives away his girl!) -- and this is all played so straight, so ponderously -- it's just wonderful. (my favorite line: 'you people disgust me.' if you see it, you'll know what i mean. i laughed, out loud, for 30-40 seconds, drawing stares, but it was so worth it). two oversized foam-rubber novelty thumbs way up! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Stewart Russell Subject: Globe & Mail Horseshoe Review The Globe & Mail Saturday 27 July Hitchcock knockin' on Dylan's door POP Robyn Hitchcock At the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto on Wednesday Reviewed by Bill Reynolds English Singer-songwriter Robyn Hitchcock began his Toronto performance ridiculing the Pope, but ended making music just like a Dylan. The flesh of John Paul may have been available for the fawning, but at the Horseshoe Tavern on Wednesday the spirit of Bob was more inspiring. Hitchcock pointed out both the Pope and the Rolling Stones were in town, and both set out to accomplish the same goal -- give people something to believe in. The same could be said for the mischievous songwriter with a twisted sense of humour, although belief in His Bobness was paramount this night. He stands, looking like a Greenwich Village folksinger (well, except for the extraordinarily gaudy shirt), with his acoustic guitar and harmonica rack. He sports full reverence and awe for the man whose songs convinced him to join ``Dylan's academy of philosopher-kings'' so many years ago. Hitchcock has often been called eccentric, but he's more like an old-fashioned aesthete. His crisp and precise elocution, his superb sense of comic timing, his odd tales of love and lust are brought into sharp focus without a rhythm section or solid-body guitar. When the acoustic strum borders on tedium, Hitchcock lets loose a standup comedy routine on the pretext of introducing material. Among numerous originals, he performed three renditions from his latest CD, a double album of Bob tunes called `Robyn Sings'. His take on `Not Dark Yet' got inside the song's deep-felt angst over aging, and the accompanying exhaustion with human moral frailty. Hitchcock self-mockingly noted that there is a small guy with curly hair lurking inside him, but it's clear he graduated magna cum laude from the Dylan academy many years ago. (Robyn Hitchcock performs at the Calgary Folk Festival today and tomorrow and the West End Cultural Centre in Winnipeg on Tuesday.) Special to The Globe and Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:59:20 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Not Again... On Sat, Jul 27, 2002, Michael Wells wrote: > Looks like I'm not the only one upset at a certain someone's refusal to post > upcoming tour dates... > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020727/ap_on_re_us/brf_dy > ing_squid > > You know, for my money you just can't have enough 'giant squid with human-like > eyeballs washing up by the thousand on populated beaches' news stories. Or > Kate Winslet updates/gossip. I think the leader squid's name was Jim Jones. So what did they end up doing with them, shipping them off to all the local Thai, Chinese, and Italian restaurants? - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:01:26 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: Globe and Mail Review barbara soutar wrote: > > When I read this article I thought I should send it along to the list. > Wish I could have made it to the concert but I live 3000 miles away! you still managed to beat me to posting the review. Mine follows shortly. I'm not sure whether the G&M reviewer liked the show or not. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:34 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 10:37 PM, R Edward Poole wrote: > finally saw the movie of the summer last night - reign of fire I can't disagree with the analysis, but Lilo & Stitch is the movie of the summer! - - Steve __________ Maybe federal employees shouldn't get the double protection of unions and civil service status. It's not an unreasonable argument. If that's what the president believes, he should send up a separate bill abolishing the civil service system. What he's doing here is just using the crushed, maimed and devastated of 9/11 to prop up Grover Norquist's federal workplace policy agenda. - Josh Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:28:40 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Venting about Tuatara, though feeling better now >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >>Let's say you made an appointment to have some work done on your car. >Something else comes up, you call and cancel the apointment. How do you >know the mechanic wasn't coming in only to do your job that afternoon - >maybe the boss couldn't find anyone else to do the work - so the mechanic >cancels all his other plans for that day. Then his boss calls and tells >him don't bother, the guy cancelled. How about this. As a contractor you bid a job at 5 thousand dollars. After buying materials and hiring you labor you realize that it's costing you eight. You swallow the costs and hope that the quality you put forth gets you more work. You don't quit and go to work somewhere else. Maybe It's just that I work in a line of work that requires that I deal with the realities of the real world of buisness. I therefor have a distorted view of what loss leader is. >Is the mechanic justified in being pissed off at you for making him cancel >whatever he'd had scheduled for that day? Well, mechanics usually have a number of cars wating to be worked on, I only had tickets to one show for saturday night. No matter what the inner workings of the rock world are I will still be upset about it. I really have not thought too much about it today other than these e-mails. MAX(who sends apologies to Jeff for a rought draft of this email that got sent by accident) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:31:27 -0700 From: drew Subject: kill kill switch > From: "Bachman, Michael" > William Gibson, along with Tom Maddox, wrote one of my favorite > X-Files episodes, "Kill Switch". It's about a sentient computer program > that is targeting it's creators for distruction. I love William Gibson but I really hated that episode, and I've seen that storyline SO often. But as Jeffrey pointed out, the show's quality was to drop to unprecedented lows, and it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Props to Stewart for bringing up the hilarious, dark, perverted John Sladek. > From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) > > Then there's Alfred Bester. Read a couple of his books recently. I wish they'd had some real women in them, but I guess those were the times. > From: "Michael Wells" [Titanic the porno] > You too, huh? Weird. My version starred Kate Winslet and me. My version starred Winslet and DiCaprio and...Orlando's boyfriend whose name I always forget. And me. But you knew that. > From: "Natalie Jane" > made-up weapons Hey, I forgot to mention how cool those shockwave guns were that they used in the factory-fight scene they ripped off from Star Wars: Episode Doo-doo. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:11:44 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: kill kill switch drew wrote: > > Props to Stewart for bringing up the hilarious, dark, perverted John > Sladek. Y'know, "The Reproductive System" would look good in moody, paranoid black and white. The legion of mewing dolls could be a Brothers Quay-style nightmare. Jack Nicholson is *almost* ugly enough to be Grawk. Ickers has always looked like Leslie Nielson when I read the book. But try as I might, Smilax has no face for me -- that's what makes him so scary. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:26:49 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: here's one we prepared in advance (mostly about Words, actually) Blue Peter -- As w/ many things on this list, I quickly jumped over to Google & searched it. All I learned was that it's a British TV show, it's been around for ages, there's some contest in connection w/ it, and it has a terribly designed & uninformative website. - --- Lal H.-- Being a fan of Robyn, it's convenient to like his girl's sculpture, but they do appeal, particularly the new record cover & the Green Man. I have a friend who at least used to do sculpture involving animal skeletons. She is always rather prim in dress (i.e. not a slob like me -- IMO lots of artists are like that) so it was very odd to see her gathering roadkill & cleaning it w/ lime. - --- "Fuck! The fuckin' fucker's fucked!" -- A reasonably intelligent person (well, an attorney) very ernestly told me the origin of the word was a early bit of code, we would now call an acronym, used by constables: felonius unlawful carnal knowledge. I didn't have time to argue, but I do think it's enuf older that those words wouldn't have had those forms. Anybody else heard this origin? - --- Cunt -- My understanding was that D. H. Lawrence was largely responsible for reviving this old form. My feeling is that (U.S) people largely avoid it because it feels like hate speech toward women. In fact when I've heard it used, it's usually like that. - --- Wendigo -- As a teenager I used to like Algernon Blackwood more than about anybody, so I may have to dig up that bio, Kay. My fav story was "The Willows" but I read most of them. Prompted by the list, I read a couple of M.R. James things to my daughter over the weekend -- "Lost Hearts" and "Casting the Runes." His scares may be scarier, but they don't seem quite as rich. I like a lot of those early 20th c. horror writers, esp. Sheridan LeFanu. But I never liked Walter De La Mare, he always seemed too atmospheric, a tease. - --- Midnight on the deep blue sea band played Nearer My God to Thee fare thee well, Titanic, fare thee well Wouldn't let old Jack Johnson on board said 'This ship don't haul no coal' fare the well, Titanic, fare thee well Now Jack Johnson, he was a negro pugilist, a prize fighter, and he hoped to set sail aboard the great ship the Titanic ... - --Leadbelly - --- Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:00:38 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: here's one we prepared in advance On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, ross taylor wrote: > Blue Peter -- As w/ many things on this list, I quickly jumped over to > Google & searched it. All I learned was that it's a British TV show, > it's been around for ages, there's some contest in connection w/ it, > and it has a terribly designed & uninformative website. Hey, listen, I remember when Christopher blinkin' Trace and Valerie Singleton hosted Blue Peter, not like all you young shavers with your Peter Purves and John sodding Noakes. I think that the essential contradiction within Blue Peter was the concept that kids who had just staggered home from school and glazed over in front of the goggle box would suddenly turn into eager gadget-creators when confronted with a bucketful of toilet rolls, 12 oz. of assorted pipecleaners, and a stack of 78s (the unforgettable "turn your unwanted 78s into flower vases" item) and a tin opener. I don't remember that Leila Williams though: Maybe I was watching Muriel Young and Ollie Beak on the ITV... > A reasonably intelligent person (well, an attorney) very ernestly told > me the origin of the word was a early bit of code, we would now call > an acronym, used by constables: felonius unlawful carnal knowledge. This is one of those urban myths. It's not true. > Wendigo -- > As a teenager I used to like Algernon Blackwood more than about > anybody, so I may have to dig up that bio, Kay. My fav story was "The > Willows" but I read most of them. Prompted by the list, I read a > couple of M.R. James things to my daughter over the weekend -- "Lost > Hearts" and "Casting the Runes." His scares may be scarier, but they > don't seem quite as rich. I like a lot of those early 20th c. horror > writers, esp. Sheridan LeFanu. But I never liked Walter De La Mare, > he always seemed too atmospheric, a tease. Possibly the fact that MRJ was a schoolmaster comes over in a slight twinkle of the eye here and there. I still don't think that Blackwood's style is terribly convincing. There is a really good film of CtR by Jacques Tourneur, called 'Night of the Demon' - recommended. I once saw a scarifying TV production of 'Lost Hearts', featuring Richard Pearson as the sorceror, but I expect it's been wiped long since. Oh, and a super (?Jonathan Miller-directed?) production of "Oh whistle and I'll come to you, my lad" featuring Michael Hordern. Wow! - - Mike Godwin PS Sheridan le Fanu's dates are 1814-1873, just looked it up. He's a clear generation earlier than Blackwood, Bierce, James, Benson. n.p. The Police, "Sue Lawley" :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:13:59 +0000 From: "Silver Leaf" Subject: Genreflecting Drew: I love jersey. It's great for bedsheets, too. Nothing >else is remotely as comfortable (definitely not silk -- yuck). If I remember correctly, with silk the pillows slip off the bed too easily. If there was a state called Old Jersey I would move there, cause nothing is softer than old jersey:-) - ------------------------ Word-peeves: I dont know why this bothers me, but somewhere in the last 10 years people have started to golf. They dont play golf, they golf. They might as well tennis or baseball or backgammon (hell, thats all probobly just down the pike. Does that mean you'll soon be able to squash someone and then pool them;-?) It sounds both awkward and stupid to me. Games are what you play. Sports where mode of movement are the primary activity are the only ones you use as verbs(swim, sail, hike, run, race, ride.) Am I a snobby old grump(don't answer that!)? Does grump count as a good swear word? Grump grump grump. - ----------------------- James: >Someone tried to sell me one recently at an open market and I asked >how much the company named was willing to pay me to wear their advertising. >Funnily enough I wasn't offered enough to get the shirt. :-). That cheers this old grump. - --------------------- Max on the Tuatara gig: >Living ing Arts is smack >dab in the middle of South Street and is almost assured a rather >robust >walkup for a Saturday night. Max is right about that. Regardless of advance sales they probobly would have had at least 50 in the hall, which is about what Robyn had there when he toured with GLP. And gave a good show. There was no real publicity(?). I wasn't aware of the show till I saw an interview about its cancellation in the local paper. This is good, cause otherwise I might have ended up in the same hole as Max. I remember thinking, as I read the interview, that Buck sounded pretty discontent and - -very- defensive. He ended up plying his anger on the major labels(no one will argue with him there)(thou Im sure some Feg will argue with -me- for my use of "plying" ;-) but I got the feeling he was uncomfortable with the whole mess. Well, if I was writing a fictional character who gave that interview as it was reported, thats how I'd expect readers to interpret him. For all I know Buck was just gargelling and the interviewer supplied the content. Hope your throut feels better fast, Max. Theres a stomach/throut virus going around here-abouts. I had a quick bout of it over the weekend so it should pass soon for you. I hope. :-) - -------------------- Ahhhh-just read you -did- get all your money back Max. Good-o. - --------------------- What is SF? SF is like many of the other genres. It is a set of self-modifying, ever-in-flux conventions that allow us to express, acknowledge and understand what it feels like and what it means to exist as a human being right here and right now. SF uses conventions of reason in the form of science behind its imaginary constructs versus a different genre such as horror which uses conventions of the uncanny behind its imaginary constructs. Both genres will use time-travel as a motif, but each will support it slightly differently. But the reason the "rules" behind any particular genre are ever-changing is so as to always keep up with the here and now. This is -especially- true of historical fiction;-). I do love genre fiction. Kay, otherwise grumpy and still a bit queasy _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:15:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, R Edward Poole wrote: > saw 'minority report' (loved it; coulda done without speilbergian > making you wait an hour like most flicks). it's kinda like 'starship > troopers' in the way promises no more than cheap b-movie fare and is > happy with that state of affairs. ('troopers' was marginally deeper, > especially the propaganda segments, but at heart is was a monster > flick -- kill evil space bugs!). I *hated* _Starship Troopers_, though it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Not necessarily on technical or plot grounds (although it was pretty lame there) but simply that its whole point of view is pretty simply fascistic. Its treatment of violence was positively pornographic (and I'm not some Nervous Nellie who fits at violence - hell, I liked _Pulp Fiction_ etc.). It pretty much glorified might and violence for their own sakes. As for the giant bugs: I think it's interesting that the movie's writers (and maybe Heinlein for all I know - he pisses me off too...) made them so blindly and single-mindedly evil, with no sort of motivating purpose etc., thereby allowing you to simply cheer. A better movie at least offers *some* glimpse of the bugs' p.o.v. I mean, I probably wouldn't care about the bugs' p.o.v. if the rest of the movie hadn't sucked so horribly. (Haven't seen _Reign of Fire_, but it does sound fun...even though your comparison sorta put me off it for a while...) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some see things as they are, and say "Why?" ::Some see things as they could be, and say "Why not?" ::Some see things that aren't there, and say "Huh?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:24:03 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: here's one we prepared *earlier* Michael R Godwin wrote: > > (the unforgettable "turn your unwanted 78s into flower vases" item) wasn't it LPs? I would've thought that shellac 78s wouldn't have softened in the oven, but burnt? (explanation: put an old LP on top of a tin can on top of a baking tray in a low oven. LP flops down to make a strange flower vase.) > I don't remember that Leila Williams though I think that site was mistaken. I'd read she only was on the show six weeks. Or was that the next presenter? > "Oh whistle and I'll come to you, my lad" A genuinely scary tale. When told it by our mad Primary 6 art teacher (picture of class here: http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/Images/class.jpg -- don't we look traumatised? Bet no-one guesses which of the little horrors is me.) I was frightened for weeks. Never been able to bring myself to read James because of that. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:32:31 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass' - -- Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 29. Juli 2002 11:15 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: review: 'fire breathing dragons kick ass': > I *hated* _Starship Troopers_, though it was one of the worst movies I've > ever seen. Not necessarily on technical or plot grounds (although it was > pretty lame there) but simply that its whole point of view is pretty > simply fascistic. Its treatment of violence was positively pornographic > (and I'm not some Nervous Nellie who fits at violence - hell, I liked > _Pulp Fiction_ etc.). It pretty much glorified might and violence for > their own sakes. The book is worse. The film satirizes the fascism to some degree; some people have even argued that it's supposed to be an anti-war flick, but I don't buy that. The book is just unbelievable. I don't believe in censorship, but that's one book I wouldn't feel comfortable having my children read. Is that a grammatical sentence? I'm not sure anymore about these long extractions ... ;-) Anyway, Starship Troopers (the book) is about as militaristic as Ernst J|nger's notorious "In Stahlgewittern" (which I've read only in part). - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:06:53 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: C'mon you apes! You wanna live forever? Jeffrey writes, > I *hated* _Starship Troopers_, Ah, one of my favorite movies to defend! I love "Starship Troopers." Of course I will not defend the acting or the dialogue, but I think the movie is more complex than it seems, and is destined to be a SF classic. (Though a divisive one.) >though it was one of the worst movies I've > ever seen. Not necessarily on technical or plot grounds (although it was > pretty lame there) but simply that its whole point of view is pretty > simply fascistic. Well...yes! It was, on many levels, a satire -- as most of Verhoeven's films are. That's part of the reason I like it so much -- Verhoeven took an un-ironic look at Heinlein's book, and filmed it in the rah-rah unquestioning style of a Fifties war movie. The result is, in my opinion, a very clever and sharp satire in the trappings of a genuine action film. ("Robocop" was similar in that respect, though more human.) I just adore some of the scenes: Michael Ironsides as the Professor, talking about the failure of democracy and the need for a military junta while his oblivious students pass electronic love letters; comments in the co-ed shower scene such as "It's easier to get a license to have a child if you are a citizen;" and of course all the TV commercials. I think, however, two other things are also at work in "Starship Troopers" that tend to complicate the film for many viewers. First, for some, Verhoeven's sense of satire is drown out by his obvious love for thrills and mayhem. While I don't have a problem with a genre film subverting itself while still delivering the goods (a la "Natural Born Killers"), I can certainly see how it works to simultaneously undermine the message. Secondly, I think that "Starship Troopers" also poses an interesting but queasy question: Can a civilization defend itself from such an invasion without resorting to such monolithic (read: fascist) patterns? There are some very real critiques of democracy and liberalism in the film, and while I think Verhoeven ultimately rejects a fascist alternative, I do believe that he gives serious consideration to some of Heinlein's more right-wing ideas. Also, you are right -- Verhoeven does portray violence in a nearly pornographic way. Even the probing of the Brain Bug is deliberately obscene, and then there's always "Basic Instinct." > As for the giant bugs: I think it's interesting that the movie's writers > (and maybe Heinlein for all I know - he pisses me off too...) made them so > blindly and single-mindedly evil, with no sort of motivating purpose etc., > thereby allowing you to simply cheer. A better movie at least offers > *some* glimpse of the bugs' p.o.v. This is not "Ender's Game." The Bugs do not get a P.O.V., they are to be mercilessly stamped out and slaughtered. In fact, the one scene in which a reporter even dares to question the aggression of the Bugs -- "Some say that our encroachment upon their space has turned them hostile" -- is met with ridicule, and immediately dismissed. And yet, that question is there -- another one of Verhoeven's sly touches that all is not what it seems. - --Quail PS: All quotations are paraphrases from memory! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.TheModernWord.com "Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards them both with an equal eye." --Herman Melville, "Moby Dick" ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #243 ********************************