From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #241 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, July 27 2002 Volume 11 : Number 241 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: No kiddies in room while you read this [Stewart Russell ] Re: No kiddies in room while you read this [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: wendigo ["Jason R. Thornton" ] RE: Swearing at ships on children's TV [hamish_simpson@agilent.com] RE: wendigo ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: Swearing at ships on children's TV [hamish_simpson@agilent.com] Robyn in Canada ["Renee Haggart" ] Re: wendigo [Stewart Russell ] blood money ["drew" ] Re: SF (not startrekfucking) [steve ] Re: Jubblies [Tom Clark ] Re: On Target [glen uber ] Robyn in Canada ["Roberta Cowan" ] RE: wendigo [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] sf [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] IYQ no. 327: The Desk Tidy [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising [grutness@surf4nix.com] Re: words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising [Stewart Russell <] Behind the Typeface: Cooper Black [Stewart Russell ] Re: words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising [Jeffrey with 2 Fs] my teeth fastened into the neck of the dead horse ["Natalie Jane" Subject: Re: No kiddies in room while you read this Silver Leaf wrote: > > OK, inevidable Yank question -- what -is- a desk tidy? thing to put your pens in -- made from the cardboard inner tube of a kitchen paper roll, cut into three different lengths, covered in adhesive plastic film and glued (or "using double-sided sticky tape, for speed") to a cardboard base. Coun the list clued enough on UK culture that no-one asked what Blue Peter is. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:49:25 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: Leave Titanic alone! The Great Quail wrote: > > Oh for heaven's sake! It was just a movie. It didn't hurt anyone it did if you were an Afghani barber: http://www.msnbc.com/news/564807.asp?cp1=1 (though to be honest, I'd have taken the hint with the first imprisonment, myself.) > it was just a popular movie with ... a fantastic last hour Yeah. di Caprio snuffs it, then sinks like a newly-flushed turd. How cool is that? > You want to blame someone, blame me. ah, you are James Cameron. (I claim my $5.) > Why must it be used as a negative > barometer to measure coolness? 'cos it's that which They don't have, perhaps? > No offense, Stewart, your comment was just the trigger none taken. Least you didn't say my pet annoyance trigger of, "no offence, but ..." Stewart (who narrowly avoided having [fnarr!] "Wanton Soup" for lunch at the Chinese Mall.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:50:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: No kiddies in room while you read this On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Stewart Russell wrote: > Coun the list clued enough on UK culture that no-one asked what Blue > Peter is. Errr, well, umm, see, after a long and uncomfortably stimulated while... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::can you write underwater on liquid paper?:: __Zippy__ - --it was a kid's tv show, right? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:48:20 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: more fucking SF > And while we'd be better off if Celine Dion's > theme song didn't exist, it wasn't nearly as painful as Whitney Houston's > version of "I Will Always Love You" from "The Bodyguard," still my most > hated song of all time. Y'know, I think that might be my most-hated song too! Then again, that's not the sort of information you want out there, searchable on the Internet, where your enemies can find it... > BTW, can you tell me what real-life ship "Titanic" was based on? Well, clearly you're being facetious here, Chris, but that brings up an interesting point. The original ship "HMS Titanic" was itself based on the novel "A Really Large Boat" by Aloysius Trollope-Smythe, the little- known Victorian-era author from Surrey. In recent years, though, some controversy has brewed over the possibility that Trollope-Smythe's book was in fact plagiarized from an 1857 French comic opera by Pierre Vuillard- d'Estrange, "Le Boeuf Enorme"... Furthermore, some literary historians claim that *both* works were lifted from an obscure 18th-century Italian breakfast cereal called "Il Battello Grande," author unknown (though generally attributed to Jason Falkner). I can't actually verify any of this, though. John "it's just something I picked up" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:54:21 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: wendigo At 10:39 AM 7/26/2002 -0700, drew wrote: > > From: Jill Brand > > > > In a parallel universe, the movie Titanic wasn't made. > >In mine it was a porno. Did the ship still go down? If so, on whom? - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:58:13 -0600 From: hamish_simpson@agilent.com Subject: RE: Swearing at ships on children's TV >>>but beautifully played. In a parallel universe, that song got used >>>instead of Celine Dion's in "Titanic". > >>In a parallel universe, the movie Titanic wasn't made. > In a parallel universe, the Titanic didn't sink! The trouble with the "parallel universe" theory is the knowledge that in a number of universes I like Celine Dion. But then again there must be some where she fronts a hardcore punk band!!! Hey, some cunt's gotta do it :) (H) - whose fave swear word of all time is "cunt" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:47:43 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: wendigo - -----Original Message----- From: drew [mailto:drew@stormgreen.com] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 1:40 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: wendigo > From: Christopher Gross > > As far as SF recommendations go, William Gibson has long been a favorite > of mine, more for his prose style, visual sense, and characterization > than for his SF-specific characteristics. William Gibson, along with Tom Maddox, wrote one of my favorite X-Files episodes, "Kill Switch". It's about a sentient computer program that is targeting it's creators for distruction. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:03:52 -0600 From: hamish_simpson@agilent.com Subject: RE: Swearing at ships on children's TV I sed > Hey, some cunt's gotta do it :) Wow, this got through my standard Outlook spell checker. Just checked and it also likes fuck, shit, bastard, fucker and cocksucker, but gets picky about motherfucker. Well fuck me in the ass :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:01:38 -0700 From: "Renee Haggart" Subject: Robyn in Canada Well, I guess I'm the only one from the list going to see Robyn in Calgary this weekend...? Anyone got any messages they need delivered? RH - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:09:40 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: wendigo Bachman, Michael wrote: > > William Gibson, along with Tom Maddox, wrote one of my favorite > X-Files episodes, "Kill Switch". It's about a sentient computer program > that is targeting it's creators for distruction. shades of the criminally-underappreciated John Sladek's "The Reproductive System", where the DNA-based robots evolve away their power switches in one generation. Sladek rocks, but has only been in print erratically. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:15:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "drew" Subject: blood money > From: The Great Quail [band t-shirts] > True: but advertising an artist seems to me more a conscious, > self-directed statement than wearing a Sean John shirt that only > advertises itself. More conscious I'll grant, but more self-directed I'd question (and have). > If Robyn suddenly became as > popular as Pearl Jam, I wonder how many of you would think he sold out > and abandon the List? I'd still be a fan as long as he remained more appealing than Pearl Jam (ugh ugh ugh -- but then I hate grunge). > From: "Jason R. Thornton" > > As far as Delaney goes, am I the only person that favors 'Stars in my > Pocket, Like Grains of Sand'? Haven't read it yet. The only Delany I've read was one of the Neveryon books and Empire Star. > From: "Silver Leaf" > > Drew: > >(it's all about Cherokee jersey boxer shorts, nothing else will do) > > Jersey boxer shorts? Damn(in a good way.) I love jersey. It's great for bedsheets, too. Nothing else is remotely as comfortable (definitely not silk -- yuck). > Pussy is not as obscene as cunt, But it's way sexier. Partly because it sounds tighter (sounds like "purse," while "cunt" sounds like "cup"). > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > > I guess it's less offensive that someone knowingly, willingly attempts > to elevate their cool by displaying, say, The Obscure Argonauts' logo on > their t-shirt than attempting to be cool by displaying the same logo as > on millions of other shirts Well, I never said it was necessarily offensive. I just said it was driven by similar motives. I buy Sanrio and San-X shit, incidentally. In the back window of my car are a 4AD logo sticker and an MST3K decal. > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > > It's only when characters are meant to be deep and interesting but > aren't that it's a problem. Exactly, and in most fiction that's the case. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:30:49 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: SF (not startrekfucking) On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 11:10 AM, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > 'Blood Music' is set right here in La Jolla (as is Gregory Benford's > 'Timescape', another hard-SF author & novel I'd recommend). That'll > probably only interest gNat. Blood Music (newly reissued in PB) is the book that got Bear adopted by the Mirrorshades Group* as an honorary member, for what that's worth. *The original bunch of "cyberpunk" writers, although they didn't coin the term or ever adopt it. - - Steve __________ "Miyazaki's latest animation feature (co-winner with 'Bloody Sunday' of the Berlin Golden Bear) more than justifies his status as Japan's most revered culture hero. What starts out as a fine example of the through-the-looking- glass kids' adventure genre becomes almost Shakespearean in its lyricism, breadth of vision and humanity." - Tony Rayns, Sight & Sound ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:46:08 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Jubblies Mmmmmmm, Kate Winslet... - -tc on 7/26/02 7:31 AM, matt sewell at matt_sewell@hotmail.com wrote: > My favourite parallel universe is the one where Kate Winslet and Leonardo > DiCaprio set sail on Celine Dion who then sinks after hitting an iceberg > with the loss of all hands... the theme tune is played on the horns of > assorted oil tankers and stays in the charts right up until the world is > taken over by the Kate Winslet clones made specially for the film... > > But then that's just me for you... > > Cheers > > Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:48:58 -0700 From: glen uber Subject: Re: On Target Silver earnestly scribbled: >Glenn, three, ah, cheers for telling us about the fart book. I gotta read >it. Don't you mean three *Bronx* cheers? - -- Cheers! - -g- "In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments -- there are Consequences." - --R.G. Ingersoll glen uber =+= blint (at) mac dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:38:40 -0400 From: "Roberta Cowan" Subject: Robyn in Canada Concerning the Calgary Folk Festival--I noticed when I looked at the schedule for this festival a while back that Fairport Convention is also on the bill. This is so cool! Don't you think that Robyn would likely be at least checking out their set given what a big fan of theirs he has been? The thought of them collaborating onstage somehow is way too much to even hope for but if it happens, please give us a report! Don't suppose you'll be taping? 8-) Glad to see there's a feg going-- Roberta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:54:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: wendigo On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Bachman, Michael wrote: > William Gibson, along with Tom Maddox, wrote one of my favorite > X-Files episodes, "Kill Switch". It's about a sentient computer program > that is targeting it's creators for distruction. Y'know, in retrospect that episode was reasonably good...but at the time, and coming immediately after the awful ep written by "Stephen King"(tm), it seemed pretty lame. (The standards of quality for that show plummeted shortly thereafter...) I liked some of it, but I remember various nagging feelings about it, things that either were over-obvious, unlikely, or just played out. But it's been several years since I've seen it. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::crumple zones:::::harmful or fatal if swallowed:::::small-craft warning:: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:09:31 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: sf >> As far as SF recommendations go, William Gibson has long been a favorite >> of mine, more for his prose style, visual sense, and characterization >> than for his SF-specific characteristics. > >Yes -- I've read all of his stuff, and though I like him >less than I used to, I do still appreciate his skill. I've >never read Sterling, but I might. > >> When you >> said "classics," did you mean the old classics of SF's Golden Age? > >Well, sort of, but really anything pre-1980. My tolerance >for space opera has gone way downhill, so I'm not really >looking for spaceward-ho! astronautical yarns. But, for >example, I've never read a single Asimov novel. Strange >but true; I always thought I was a sci-fi fan, but I'm not >sure I qualify anymore. Hm. For a long time I was a big fan of Larry Niven, especially the Gil Hamilton stories. Then there's Alfred Bester. Maybe R.A.Lafferty, John Brunner, Spider Robinson, Robert Silverberg, Vonda McIntyre. Gene Wolfe is amazing, but hard going (his "New Sun" series is wonderful). For 'golden age' SF, I'd go for Fredric Brown, Randall Garrett, Arthur C Clarke, James Schmitz, and Theodore Sturgeon. For something different, Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita" is enchanting. If you're looking for Robynesque SF, then I've mentioned John Sladek before. And I recently discovered and have greatly enjoyed the work of Howard Waldrup. .. anyone like to comment on any of these? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:31:33 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: IYQ no. 327: The Desk Tidy >>I wonder if Robyn used to get "desk tidies" at Christmas? > >OK, inevidable Yank question -- what -is- a desk tidy? Desk tidy (DESK TAI-dee) [sometimes hyphenated]. n. (1) one of those little pen-holder things that is always overflowing with paperclips until you need one, and gets knocked onto the floor when it contains a maximum number of drawing pins (US: thumb tacks). (2) A common do-it-yourself project on programmes like Blue Peter, Magpie, and (NZ equivalent) Spot On, usually involving the tubes from several toilet rolls, a piece of thick cardboard, glue, and paint. Here's one we prepared earlier. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:31:40 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising >Which reminds me of a pet peeve: ignorant parents who name their kid >"Jonathon" - or worse, "Johnathon." The name "Jonathan" is spelled like >that - always has been - and is etymologically unrelated to "John" (except >for both being Hebrew). I know someone who was so pissed off with misspellings he shortened his name to Nathan. I suspect that's a closer name to Jonathan than John. >True - they'd *work* that way. My point, really, was that "rgavvyq" >wouldn't be a word because (a) "rg" does not occur at the beginning of >English words, (b) the double "v" is very unusual - "navvy" being the only >example I can think of - oh wait, "savvy" too ever heard of bovver boots? (c) "y" as a vowel is rare except in words borrowed from other languages (or very old, archaic Anglo-Saxon words, like "yclept" Y is not *that* rare as a vowel. By trying slyly, any dysfunctional misogynist or shy, crying nymph might envy my mysterious theory! (okay, a couple of those are loan-word forms, and I can't think of a word to replace 'might'!) >And if you disagree with any of this, you can go trup yourselves, you >bunch of shap-findlers. Spoot! Up yer clunge! (a bonus 10 points for the origins of these two phrases) >Brian Hoare wrote: >> >> -athon > >or the locally spotted 'saleathon'; obviously, the room in which >Francophone Fric would keep his tuna. > >> -a/oholic > >esp the idiot 'shopaholic'; one does not nip down to the shopahols for a >bag* of milk, does one? can I add the equally pointless -fest and -nomics (as in Skifest and Reaganomics)? I'm also very much against the dropping of -ing off words formed from participles. I hate hearing on the radio about events such as 'the national swim meet', for instance (now thankfully(?) being gradually replaced by the term 'swimfest'). >Yeah, I thought that was cool too -- better than Verhoeven's, which to be >fair, are more satirical. But it reminds me of the DNA cartoon form Jurassic >Park, which was one of my favorite parts of that movie -- it seemed very >authentic. one thing I really regret about Jurassic Park (apart from 90% of the movie, that is) is that the voice used for the recorded guide you hear shortly after all the scientists arrive on the island wasn't Richard Attenborough's brother David. It would have been (a) perfectly reasonable to hear his voice for that; (b) a nice in-joke; and (c) a rare opportunity for them to work together. >BTW, can you tell me what real-life ship "Titanic" was based on? name: the Titans; ship: a very big dugout canoe ;) >Once upon a time the only initials Id wear were my own, discretely >embroidered on in the same color as the shirt(e.g. white on white (but >stripes were a challange.)) Now that I thrift I like wearing other peoples' >initial's, as long as they're other anonymous peoples' initial's. Except for >the very occaisional beloved band T shirt Ive always steared clear of of >logos, initials, messages, etc. They seem vulgar, not because they offend >"good taste" but because they are insufficiently self-possesing. me too. Someone tried to sell me one recently at an open market and I asked how much the company named was willing to pay me to wear their advertising. Funnily enough I wasn't offered enough to get the shirt. >> One that REALLY bugs me is the new word 'morph,' shortened from >> 'metamorphosis,' being used to mean 'transform.' It's the 'meta' from >> 'metamorphosis' that means to change or transform. 'Morph' simply refers >> to something having a particular shape or form. > >That's cuz we speak English, not Greek - and we abbreviate from the >accented syllable. but morph isn't the accented syllable! '-osis' is! James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:43:07 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising James Dignan wrote: > > Spoot! Norn for 'razor shell' of course. Norn has some lovely words, like 'bruck' for rubbish. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:51:23 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Behind the Typeface: Cooper Black One for the typography dweebs: http://www.cheshiredave.com/mastication/2002/07/0037a-btt.html (flash, loud) Stewart (wtf am I still doing at work??) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:06:34 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Winsleties Drew: > > In a parallel universe, the movie Titanic wasn't made. > > In mine it was a porno. You too, huh? Weird. My version starred Kate Winslet and me. Speaking of which, Tom observes: > Mmmmmmm, Kate Winslet... I'm right there with you on that one. Those eyes, those lips, those...those...those jahoobies. Didja dig her "let's-cure-Ophelia's-insanity-by-soaking-her-down-in-a-flimsy-cotton-nights hirt" scene from Branagh's Hamlet? Fantastic. She wasn't there for her acting ability, let's just put it like that. You know, every man has a fantasy and I'd have to say that working over a scantily-clad Kate Winslet with a firehouse would rank right about in the top two or three. Michael "you don't want to know about the others" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:18:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: words, names, swearing, etymology, and advertising On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, James Dignan wrote: > >English words, (b) the double "v" is very unusual - "navvy" being the only > >example I can think of - oh wait, "savvy" too > > ever heard of bovver boots? No..but my guess is, the "vv" is derived from another consonant - like say "th" maybe? > (c) "y" as a vowel is rare except in words borrowed from other languages > (or very old, archaic Anglo-Saxon words, like "yclept" > > Y is not *that* rare as a vowel. By trying slyly, any dysfunctional > misogynist or shy, crying nymph might envy my mysterious theory! (okay, a > couple of those are loan-word forms, and I can't think of a word to replace > 'might'!) Or "or"! I should have been clearer, obviously: in a presumptively unaccented syllable containing a final consonant that is not a loan-word, "y" is a relatively rare vowel. So "rgavvyq" (as most "English" words, accented on the first syllable) would be unlikely. Switch it around a bit, get "gravique," and you have a passable French borrowing (although it doesn't mean anything...). > >> One that REALLY bugs me is the new word 'morph,' shortened from > >> 'metamorphosis,' being used to mean 'transform.' It's the 'meta' from > >> 'metamorphosis' that means to change or transform. 'Morph' simply refers > >> to something having a particular shape or form. > > > >That's cuz we speak English, not Greek - and we abbreviate from the > >accented syllable. > > but morph isn't the accented syllable! '-osis' is! Not in the US it isn't! MET-uh-MORPH-uh-sis, not MET-uh-mor-PHO-sis. Not that it's a word you hear a lot... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Never drive a car when you're dead:: __Tom Waits__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:12:17 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: my teeth fastened into the neck of the dead horse >Spielberg is just following in >the footsteps of Stanley Kubrick's "accuracy" and William Gibson's >fetishization of brand. That may be true, but I suspect he is also following in the path of little pieces of paper with dead presidents on them. So apparently in the future there are no ads for products OTHER than the ones we know. There are no clothing stores other than the Gap, no car manufacturers other than Lexus; other producers of cars and clothes and for that matter, books or music or kitchen appliances or computers, don't advertise or don't exist. I guess this is possible, maybe even likely, but it's kind of boring too. I would have liked to have seen an ad for some weird fucked-up modern dishwasher, or maybe a portable psychiatrist a la "Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch." Oh well... And what's with all this objection to "made-up products"? It's a freakin' SCIENCE FICTION film - EVERYTHING is made up. Would you prefer to lose the made-up highways, made-up weapons, made-up laws, made-up fashions, and made-up technology also - they're kinda distracting, right? Heck, maybe they should have just set the damn thing in 2002 and have Tom Cruise use an iMac instead of those glove doohickeys. :P That said, made-up cuss-words are pretty distracting. I was just reading "Helliconia Spring" by Brian Aldis which employs a word, "scumb," which I think is supposed to mean "excrement" but is employed like "fuck," as in "scumb off." Ummm... OK. (The book is pretty good nevertheless - old fashioned idea-driven SF but with reasonably realistic characters, including women who don't spend all their time simpering or birthin' babies.) In a similar vein, I was reading a zine by some crusty anarchist "ex-worker" punk where he persisted in using "fck" instead of "fuck." Don't tell me he's worried about offending someone! n. (wearing a Gap skirt and a Gap T-shirt cannibalized by zinesters and imprinted with the logo for the Portland Zine Symposium) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:05:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: bits of rotten horsemeat spat out On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > So apparently in the future there are no ads for products OTHER than the > ones we know. Cereal box? > And what's with all this objection to "made-up products"? It's a freakin' > SCIENCE FICTION film - EVERYTHING is made up. Would you prefer to lose the > made-up highways, made-up weapons, made-up laws, made-up fashions, and > made-up technology also - they're kinda distracting, right? Heck, maybe > they should have just set the damn thing in 2002 and have Tom Cruise use an > iMac instead of those glove doohickeys. :P Hmm... I won't count myself a major SF fan, not if actually reading lots of current SF is a requirement...but I used to be, I suppose, and I would argue that SF isn't really about "science" or "the future" (at least not when I'm interested in it) but about the ways in which scientific ideas (including those from humanistic sciences like psychology and sociology) can, sufficiently extended or extrapolated, shed light on the lives of readers now. Dick in particular used "science fiction" more as a flag of convenience (he wanted to be a mainstream fiction writer, but needing to make a living at writing, he realized SF was his best option) than as a genre with ideologies claiming his allegiance. And as for your catalog of "made-up" stuff: well, some things are more readily made up and imagined new than others. Partly it's because some things change more rapidly than others - we know that the clothes people wear fifty years from now are going to be quite different what what we wear now (but hey - at least the film didn't dress its characters like Nascar drivers in brands from cap to shoes!), but we imagine the language will be largely the same - and partly it's because we need some similarities remaining in order to *communicate* (again with the language - - another reason why made-up cussin' sounds forced). Frankly, in MR I could have done w/o some of the "made-up" stuff: the transportation system, in particular, seems patently stupid and unlikely (c'mon...no system is so failsafe that no accidents will occur...and a ton of metal falling from the sky, or drunk drivers falling from their elevated vehicles, seem ridiculously likely - and unlike airplanes, these vehicles do not seem to be elevated on their own power or using known laws of physics), and the Pre-Crime Unit's gigantic spaceship things...ya think maybe a pre-criminal or two might get clued in by their approach? They made a lot of noise, and would be visible from quite a distance. Oh - and the _Brazil_-esque entrances from adjacent walls, ceilings, and appealingly glass-spattering skylights was a bit much (not that that's very futurey - just made-up). What's interesting is that *my* criticism of the film centers on its insistence on having what some lame-ass website referred to as an "action factor," including the gee-whiz-ness of its SF trappings. I still think the privacy/consciousness ideas would have been less strongly brought across if the commercials - which were an integral part of that theme - had been primarily for bogus products. In fact, I think the offense viewers like you take is *part of* the power of that theme. Instead of turning your disdain at those ads toward Spielberg and Hollywood (even though they deserve it), look at how well it reflects the rest of the world...and people's willingness to become ambulatory billboards. But at least we're agreed on the ending - ick. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Drive ten thousand miles across America and you will know more about ::the country than all the institutes of sociology and political science ::put together. __Jean Baudrillard__ np: The Flaming Lips _Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots_ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #241 ********************************