From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #239 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, July 26 2002 Volume 11 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: FYYFF [tanter@tarleton.edu] Re: this post has been sponsored by... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Curving parrellel universes ["Silver Leaf" ] Re: Curving parrellel universes [Caroline Smith ] Arms of James Cameron [Jill Brand ] helpful [Jill Brand ] Re: fucking SF [Marcy Tanter ] Re: What are fegs watching? [steve ] that burger was tasty [drew ] Re: NextDoorLand cover. ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: that burger was tasty [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: FYYFF [Stewart Russell ] Re: this post has been sponsored by... [Stewart Russell ] Re: FYYFF [Michael R Godwin ] Re: FYYFF ["Jonathan Fetter" ] yes, he can! [Stewart Russell ] Re: FYYFF [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: FYYFF ["FS Thomas" ] reply-to-all [Ken Weingold ] Re: words ["Brian Hoare" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:47:11 -0500 (CDT) From: tanter@tarleton.edu Subject: Re: FYYFF Actually, "fuck" was an acceptable anglo-saxon word, used just like we say "sex." It became a "bad" word when the Normans conquered England and French became the language of the land. THat's what I was taught in my Medieval ENgland history class. The prof's point was that Anglo-Saxons languages were banned by the French but inevitably some of their words survived. They were considered "bad" by the French and hence have come down to us that way. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:01:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: this post has been sponsored by... On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Stewart Russell wrote: > > I ask > > because I was under the impression that the c-word is more common in Scots > > English than, say, in the US - particularly when used to mean "stupid > > worthless person." > > I suppose it is used commonly, but not amongst polite/mixed company. In > particularly colourful usage, it just means person, or "part of the > assembled company". Right...whereas here, it's not used very commonly at all - far less often than most other curse words, I'd say, particularly when applied to people. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:41:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: fucking SF On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 tanter@tarleton.edu wrote: > Actually, "fuck" was an acceptable anglo-saxon word, used just like we say > "sex." It became a "bad" word when the Normans conquered England and > French became the language of the land. THat's what I was taught in my > Medieval ENgland history class. The prof's point was that Anglo-Saxons > languages were banned by the French but inevitably some of their words > survived. They were considered "bad" by the French and hence have come > down to us that way. It's been a while since I've studied the Middle Ages; but Gotta quibble with your prof here: I don't think the Normans banned the Anglo-Saxon language, or even cared in the slightest what the commoners spoke. If they did ban Old English (Anglo-Saxon), then it was certainly even less successful than the typical government program! The vast majority of the population continued to speak Anglo-Saxon, and modern English is more Anglo-Saxon with a French influence than French with an Anglo-Saxon influence.... But it is true that French had much more prestige, since it was the language of government and the upper classes after 1066. (French also may have garnered additional prestige from being closer to Latin, back when Latin was held in high esteem.) As a result, even in Modern English French-derived words are generally seen as more formal than Anglo-Saxon-derived equivalents. Whether or not this was the reason "fuck" came to be considered obscene, I can't say (and I'm too lazy to go downstairs and consult the OED). As far as SF recommendations go, William Gibson has long been a favorite of mine, more for his prose style, visual sense, and characterization than for his SF-specific characteristics. I'd also recommend Bruce Sterling, especially _Heavy Weather_ and _Holy Fire_, plus his short story collections. I second the recommendation for Robinson's Mars books, but be warned that this is definitely one of those series that goes steadily downhill as it progresses. But these are all fairly recent. When you said "classics," did you mean the old classics of SF's Golden Age? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:49:40 +0000 From: "Silver Leaf" Subject: Curving parrellel universes Jason: >Huh. Usually the cinematography is what I dislike MOST about Spielberg >films, besides the sappy endings. The cinematography often >feels >heavy-handed, overdone and distancing, at least for the past decade or so. > His films look like movies about movies, rather than >movies about the >subject in question. That is -so- on the money. You just put into a nutshell what I was floundering around on. And I -like- some Speilberg movies. I think this technique works really well in "Schindlers List" (a movie where I feel a - -need- for some distancing.) And I wish he'd do more horror cause again that distancing would be good(I think of Jaws as horror.)And I loved the eye sequence and spiders, the horror aspects. It's also good for some SF, but its not good for Dick(please--ignore any puns for once;-). >'Minority Report' was too washed-out and drab - actually that would be my biggest complaint about the film. Right, drab dosnt automatically equal noire. In fact for me noire has a certain contrary richness to it, a weird tilting of lavishness and spare. Think of Veronica Lake in "The Blue Dahlia" with her white, halo-like collar and severe dark jacket. Hard to explain, but I know it when I feel it. And I didn't feel it. - ---------------------- Stewart: >16) Arms of Love (at the drunken request of rabblerousers at the bar) You;-? >but beautifully played. In a parallel universe, that song got used instead of Celine Dion's in "Titanic". Our parallel universes must intersect. - ------------------------ Caroline: >Yeah, you know, I didn't even notice them. Maybe it depends where you were sitting. Ahhh, so you were one of the drunks at the bar with Stewart then;-? Fess up. - -------------------------- Thanks for all the TV info. It may even save me from old Batman reruns(when I realized I had sunk to that level I -made- myself get up and go do something useful.) - ------------------ Lal Hitchcock web link >Influences: green, environmental, recycling, outsider art, low-technology, theatre, stage-sets, taxidermy, dreams, the unconscious childrens story-books, Lewis Caroll, CS Lewis, Gaudi, Picasso, Magritte, Stanley Spencer, Blue-Peter, Mexican day of the dead. Interesting, yes? Does "Stevie cooking" mean there is a "real" Steve? Like "Tea with Mother" and love "The Green Man." Similar sensibility. - ----------------- And agree with Nat that "Dalhgren" was a massive slog, but for me not worth it. Ill take Hacker over Delaney anyday:-) - ---------------------- Kay _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:05:17 -0400 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Re: Curving parrellel universes > Caroline: >> Yeah, you know, I didn't even notice them. Maybe it depends where you > were sitting. > > Ahhh, so you were one of the drunks at the bar with Stewart then;-? > Fess up. > Well now, that would explain the ~positive vibrations~ I felt! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: Arms of James Cameron Stewart wrote: > 16) Arms of Love (at the drunken request of rabble > rousers at the bar) >but beautifully played. In a parallel universe, that song got used >instead of Celine Dion's in "Titanic". In a parallel universe, the movie Titanic wasn't made. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:40:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: helpful Kay wrote (hi, Kay!): "Lord love a duck, Target is great. You can get attractive, comfortable soft underwire cotton bras for less than 10 bucks on sale." I know that this info has been invaluable to Quail. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:02:14 -0500 From: Marcy Tanter Subject: Re: fucking SF Maybe this will help: The Middle English Period (1066-1500) 1066-1204 Decline of English * Norman invasion (1066), French conquest and unification of England; Normans were descendants of Danes living in northern France and spoke a French influenced by Scandinavian * French became the dominant language in England, spoken by upper classes since Norman invasion (1066) until late in the 14th century. English language was relegated to the lower classes and was heavily influenced by French in matters of vocabulary, prosody, and spelling * death of many Anglo-Saxon nobles * Frenchmen in all high offices; kings of England spoke French, took French wives and lived mostly in France, French-speaking court * imposition of feudal system, vassalage, peasants bound to the land * increase in dialectal differences * Henry II Plantagenet (r. 1154-1189), married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, father of Richard I, the Lionheart (r. 1189-1199) and John Lackland * lack of prestige of English; Latin was written language of the Church and secular documents; Scandinavian still spoken in the Danelaw, Celtic languages prevailed in Wales and Scotland * development of bilingualism among Norman officials, supervisors; some marriages of French and English, bilingual children * examples of French words: tax, estate, trouble, duty, pay, table, boil, serve, roast, dine, religion, savior; pray, trinity * very little written English from this period; the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle continued to be written until 1154 1204-1348 Rise of English * King John (John Lackland) (r. 1199-1216), loss of Normandy in 1204, beginnings of the political and cultural separation between England and France * many Norman landholders chose to stay in England, spoke Anglo-French dialect * Henry III (r. 1216-1272), son of John; francophilia of Henry III, many Frenchmen given official positions * eventual decline of French cultural dominance in England * rise in use of English, smoothing out of dialectal differences, beginning of standard English based on London dialect; crusades and pilgrimages contributed to increase in communication and formation of common language. 1348-1509 Dominance of English * French remained official language of England until second half of 14th c.; by mid to late 14th c. English was normal medium of instruction; in 1362 English became official language of legal proceedings, everyone in England spoke English by end of 14th c., displacing French, Norse, and Celtic languages * persistence of dialectal differences, increase in English writing, more common in legal documents than French or Latin by 15th c. * emergence of London/East Midland dialect as standard spoken and written language, compromise dialect, London as commercial center, seaport, proximity to Westminster court * Edward III (Windsor) (r. 1327-1377), his claim to French throne led to Hundred Years' War (1337-1453); eventual French victory; loss of all English continental holdings; French no longer significant to the English * Black Death 1348-1351, death of one third of English population, social chaos, labor shortages, emancipation of peasants, wage increases, rise in prestige of English as language of working classes * War of the Roses (1455-1485) * printers' activity (William Caxton 1474), increased literacy * c. 1500, end of Middle English Period, beginning of English Renaissance and Early Modern English Period * 1509 begins reign of Henry VIII Source: http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/english/fajardo/teaching/eng520/mideng.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:25:43 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: What are fegs watching? On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 05:27 PM, Tom Clark wrote: > Kay, who just got cable, asks: >> Any suggestions for what I might enjoy on all these new channels? Monster Garage http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/monstergarage/monstergarage.html with the one and only Jesse James http://www.westcoastchoppers.com/ That's pretty much it until Buffy and Angel return. But thanks to the miracle of all-region DVD, there's Spirited Away http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=12850 Which Disney has hinted they will release in the U.S. on September 20. - - Steve __________ Stitch is troubled. He needs desserts! - Lilo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:10:09 -0700 From: drew Subject: that burger was tasty > From: "Natalie Jane" > > Le Guin has been roundly criticised for this, by Stanislaw Lem among > others; > since she uses the pronoun "he," the androgynes just come off as... > well, > men. She's admitted her error in an essay called "Is Gender > Necessary?" - > regretting, among other things, that she never depicted Estraven with > his/her children. She's tried using "she" and a made-up set of > pronouns, to > better effect. Man, those made-up pronouns can be pretty irksome...I speak from years of experience on gender-sensitive newsgroups. I wasn't bothered so much by the problems she had using a human language to describe the gender situation of a non-human species, but rather by the overall drabness of the species itself (being all men is not necessarily being all drab :)). > Dhalgren's a massive slog - be prepared to be mired in that for a good > long > time, even if you're a fast reader. It's worth reading, though. Yeah, of the three it's the one I'm most interested in, partly because I don't tend to enjoy nautical yarns in space (which is what the jacket copy and beginning of Nova lead me to expect), and partly because flipping through made me think there might be some hot sex scenes. But -- I always carry around a book with me, in my man-purse, and I try to choose small slim paperbacks just to keep the weight down. Looks like Dhalgren is close to 900 pages, so I don't think that will be the one. >> Thinking of Being John Malkovich, what about Spike Jonze? > > He would do a good "Ubik," maybe. He'd do a great job on those goofy > Ubik > ads at the beginning of every chapter. "Use only as directed." One of the bits in Minority Report that really impressed me was the "precrime works" promo video. Usually those things come off as really, really fake, and I could believe in Spielberg's. Not sure what that says about his talent as an artist. ;) On the subject of clothing advertising itself: I made a conscious decision last year or the year before to stop wearing shirts that said or pictured things. So most of my t-shirts now act either as undershirts or knockabout wear. This isn't so much because I don't want to advertise anything as that I think it just looks better, especially on a body like mine. As for why people advertise Tommy Hillfiger: they either grow attached to the brand as a maker of clothes they really like and thus don't mind showing it off, or they accept it as a symbol of "cool" or "fashionable", or (usually) both. Before you sneer at the latter, consider that band t-shirts are as much about displaying your love of a cool band as having the name of the band you love draped across your nipples. > Oh, so has anyone seen "Road to Perdition"? I can tolerate Hanks > slightly > better than Cruise. I like Hanks slightly less, but it's more about the movies he's in than his acting ability or even his likeability as an actor. > From: The Great Quail > I also feel the same about curse words -- I hate when SF books and > shows use > fake curse words, TANSTAAFL, Frack, and so on. GOD, yes. Harry Harrison is a prime offender in this department. Another example I remember was from that Spider-Man 2089 series or whatever it was, about 10 years ago -- Peter David had characters running around saying, "what the shock?" Right, like "shock" would ever become an obscenity. I can understand the reasoning -- it's nice to get the effect without having to use the word -- but the effect ends up being far more jarring than even &@#^?! would be. > Yeah! I would much rather have seen how Agatha ended up! Well, you did see. How enlightening it wasn't! > From: "Jason R. Thornton" > Huh. Usually the cinematography is what I dislike MOST about Spielberg > films, besides the sappy endings. The cinematography often feels > heavy-handed, overdone and distancing, at least for the past decade or > so. I dislike heavy-handed, overdone, distancing cinematography, too, but what I saw in AI and Minority Report really worked for me. I didn't feel distanced at all, though perhaps I should have. Parts of AI in particular were almost painfully close. As a matter of fact, Fellowship of the Ring was the recent film that bothered me more -- all the swooping and wheeling shots really annoyed me and intruded. Maybe it's to do with the setting of the movie -- I expected a natural world to be seen in a more natural way. I haven't seen Schindler's List or Shaving Ryan's Privates yet, in fact. I have yet to be in the mood for either film, but I plan to try to get there. > From: "Silver Leaf" > > Drew: >> This is why I shop at Target > > Lord love a duck, Target is great. You can get attractive, comfortable > soft > underwire cotton bras for less than 10 bucks on sale. (Since I dont > thrift > for underwear this is an issue for me(thou perhaps not Drew:-). Cheap Target underwear works for me, too (it's all about Cherokee jersey boxer shorts, nothing else will do), but of course I haven't worn a bra since college. > It would have worked much better for me if you had had a shot of > Anderton > and wife conversing at the end, and could tell from their body language > that > there still is love and they are going to make it work. Maybe even cut > away > as they are starting to reach for each other. With a medium as in your > face > as film, a pint of suggestion can be worth -more- than a quart of > treakle. *Good* call. I think most moviegoers are smarter than they're given credit for. > Sebastian, I always thought "Candide" was overrated. Basically a > one-joke > pony. But then I always found Voltaire alittle too ... french;-) I loved _Candide_ but never got into any of his other works. > From: JH3 > > This isn't relevant to what you were asking about, but GOOD > LUCK finding "cheap" PKD paperbacks! Before all the reprints > started appearing a few years ago, some of the older, better- > condition ones were going for $25 and up. They're still pretty > pricey, AFAIK. My copies of Ubik and Time Out of Joint were cheapies, but yeah, I don't expect to find any cheap Dick on the shelves. > I'd recommend Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy, as long > as you read them in order. (Don't bother with "The Martians.") > Sometimes you can find those used. Cool. > Also, the Suede DVD is pretty good. There are even karaoke > versions... Awesome -- I wasn't sure if I should get it or not. I've heard mixed reviews of the forthcoming new album, but the last one was brutally moronic and it still grew on me. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:17:05 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: NextDoorLand cover. >From: Stewart Russell >>That'd be Lal's scupture "Tea In Bed". For a better view. > >you've got to like someone who lists "Blue Peter" as an influence. > I wonder if Robyn used to get "desk tidies" at Christmas? Brian _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:53:42 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: that burger was tasty - --On Thursday, July 25, 2002 20:10:09 -0700 drew wrote: >> Sebastian, I always thought "Candide" was overrated. Basically a >> one-joke >> pony. But then I always found Voltaire alittle too ... french;-) > > I loved _Candide_ but never got into any of his other works. Me neither. But apart from Leibnitz getting what was coming to him, wouldn't you agree that the idea of the book is better than the execution? Maybe it's not fair to use modern-day expectations, but to me the characters lacked depth. So I agree with Kay. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Being just contaminates the void - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:07:58 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: On Target On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Silver Leaf wrote: > Theres a bio of one of my favorite lesser-known horror writers out--Mike > Ashley's "Algernon Blackwood." Just started it but so far so good. "The Wendigo" is the best Blackwood story I've read. In the same second-rate category is William Hope Hodgson of "House on the Border Line". But neither is in the same league as "The Treasure of the Abbot Thomas" by M R James, or E F Benson's short but nasty "The Face". I also recommend the long but fascinating "The Beckoning Fair One" by Oliver Onions. > Ross Taylor > >only one more month to worry about how the > >remastered Rolling Stones albums will sound Hmm. The obvious mistake they could make is to overemphasise the bottom end. My impression of Keith's objective is that everything has to MESH right in the middle range so that you can hardly distinguish one instrument from another without a conscious effort. Unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick, things like "It's all over now" and "It's not easy" deliberately blur the sound into one big splurge. These hi-fi buffs could easily come along and disentangle it all until it sounds like a Don Henley record ... - - Mike Godwin n.p. Johnny Winter And "Rock'n'Roll Hoochie Koo" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:12:52 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: FYYFF tanter@tarleton.edu wrote: > > Actually, "fuck" was an acceptable anglo-saxon word, used just like we say > "sex." wasn't it the word for animals mating? The Norse word for kestrel was "wind fucker", as my astonishingly knowledgeable thesaurus-compiling friend Lorna Gilmour says. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:21:02 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: this post has been sponsored by... Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Right...whereas here, it's not used very commonly at all - far less often > than most other curse words, I'd say, particularly when applied to people. but it's not being used as a curse word; probably just a vernacular intensifier. An example might be: "Every fucking c- pished themselves when that glaikit Blakey ran the barra aff the loading bay." which translates as: "The assembled company laughed heartily when the unfortunate/ugly/stupid/gauche Mr Blake drove the pallet truck off the edge of the loading bay." I wish I knew the lexicographic role in which it was being used here. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:24:12 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: Curving parrellel universes Silver Leaf wrote: > >> 16) Arms of Love (at the drunken request of rabblerousers at the bar) > > You;-? hell, no. I was being quietly drunk at the side. Well, my beer was, at any rate. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:26:01 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: Arms of James Cameron Jill Brand wrote: > > In a parallel universe, the movie Titanic wasn't made. there are, thankfully, an infinite number in which it wasn't. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:31:38 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: FYYFF On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 tanter@tarleton.edu wrote: > Actually, "fuck" was an acceptable anglo-saxon word, used just like we say > "sex." It became a "bad" word when the Normans conquered England and > French became the language of the land. THat's what I was taught in my > Medieval ENgland history class. The prof's point was that Anglo-Saxons > languages were banned by the French but inevitably some of their words > survived. They were considered "bad" by the French and hence have come > down to us that way. Thanks for the info, Marcy. My favourite story (nowadays scoffed at, but it still makes sense to me) is that the English serfs raised the livestock, but the French lords ate the meat, which is why we have two words for cows (Eng.) and beef (Fr); calves (Eng.) and veal (Fr.); sheep (Eng.) and mutton (Fr) - other languages don't make this distinction. It doesn't work with lamb because no-one in the middle ages was rich enough to eat the sheep before it was full-grown. I was watching that behind-the-scenes-at-the-Miss-India-competition documentary last night, and the most outspoken young lady, apart from saying 'fuck' every other sentence, referred to the favourite and the Moslem girl as 'ice vaginas'. Is this usage widespread, or is it confined to Miss India contestants? - - Mike "corrupted by Channel 4" Godwin n.p. Johnny Winter "Cheap Tequila" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan Fetter" Subject: Re: FYYFF Maybe Sebastien can confirm this--I've heard that "katzenjammer" as in the old comic "The Katzenjammer Kids" is a German word to describe the sound a boy and girl cat make when they're making kittens. If so, hard to believe the newspapers got away with a comic strip for kids with that name. > tanter@tarleton.edu wrote: > > > > Actually, "fuck" was an acceptable anglo-saxon word, used just like we say > > "sex." > > wasn't it the word for animals mating? The Norse word for kestrel was > "wind fucker", as my astonishingly knowledgeable thesaurus- compiling > friend Lorna Gilmour says. > > Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:41:43 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: yes, he can! "Robyn Sings" is quite good. I have yet to discover what Dots has to offer ... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:42:32 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: FYYFF - --On Friday, July 26, 2002 08:36:04 -0400 Jonathan Fetter wrote: > Maybe Sebastien can confirm this--I've heard that "katzenjammer" as > in the old comic "The Katzenjammer Kids" is a German word to > describe the sound a boy and girl cat make when they're making > kittens. Emm, no. At least I've never heard it used that way. Katzenjammer is AFAICT usually used to describe a state of mind, namely one of being despondent. > If so, hard to believe the newspapers got away with a comic strip for > kids with that name. Right. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Being just contaminates the void - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:50:57 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Re: FYYFF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Fetter" > Maybe Sebastien can confirm this--I've heard that "katzenjammer" as > in the old comic "The Katzenjammer Kids" is a German word to > describe the sound a boy and girl cat make when they're making > kittens. The literal translation is 'the wailing of cats' and is used (usually) to describe a hangover. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:29:42 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: reply-to-all Guys, could we please stop these group replies/reply-to-all's? We really don't need two copies of each mail. Thanks. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:32:40 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: words >Natalie Jane >She's tried using "she" and a made-up set of pronouns, to better effect. David Lindsay also invented a pronoun for the chararcter Leehallfae ("neither man nor woman, nor anything between the two, but was unmistakably of a third positive sex") in Voyage to Arcuturus which after it has been introduced, in a clumsy "note to reader" manner reads effectively from then on. An interesting read. 1920's spritual quest / meet people, find out their view of the world (sometimes literally as his sense organs change along his journety) and kill them. Loved it when I first read it, tried it again earlier this year and wasn't quite so impressed. The Great Quail: >New terms, unless they're commercial, generally get borrowed from older >linguistic roots; i.e., the scientific tendency to use Latin and Greek >roots. And even commercial words, which might begin as brand names, try to >make *some* degree of "sense" having to do w/existing connotations within >the language. The pop-media also likes to take bits off words and use them as prefixes/suffixes even where there is no etymological history to support it. A sample of these new suffixes that most western english speakers will comprehend - -athon : eg Runathon (running a long way for charity), Marathon (spoiling lots of things). - -gate : eg Irangate,Contragate and of course Watergategate - -a/oholic: I hate this one. An Alcoholoholic would be someone who either really enjoys alcohol in a "naughty but nice" way or has a geekish fascination with alcohol related trivia. As we get used to a word's abbreviation we are creating new roots that are the same as old roots but with subtly different meanings auto/stereo/phone/tele. I have certainly seen stereophile used and phonebook is making an appearance in place of 'phone book. I suppose my point is that these roots need not have much historical depth to them to make them function. A few acronyms that can be read as words rather than read as individual letters eg Scuba, Laser are now treated as bone fide nouns. Nimby isn't quite there as we still remember that it is an acronym. >So if you want to make up a new curse word, it won't do just to throw >together letters at random, say, "rgavvyq." No way would that ever be a >naturally occurring English word. My brother and I once played a game of inventing "insulting words". Our conclusion was that the best ones started with a gutteral and were one syllable long. They need no meaning, their power is due to their ability to transmit aggressiveness. Brian _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #239 ********************************