From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #223 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, July 7 2002 Volume 11 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: reap ["Maximilian Lang" ] REAP ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: reap [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Surrealist post generator [rosso@videotron.ca] misogyny [R Edward Poole ] Re: weeellllll [noe shalev ] extra discs [mike hooker ] Re: Surrealist post generator [Jeff Dwarf ] violence against women [Eleanore Adams ] hang on to your ID [drew ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:47:43 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: reap >From: "Russ Reynolds" >Reply-To: "Russ Reynolds" >To: kenster@MIT.EDU >CC: fegmaniax >Subject: Re: reap >Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 14:09:36 -0700 > > > Subject: reap > > > > the splendid splinter ted williams, 83 > >There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived. > >No question Williams would have had at least 150 more HR's had he not >missed >5 years in the prime of his career because of military service. In fact >200 >is probably closer to the mark since, as driven as he was to be the best >I'm certain he would have played longer if necessary to pass Ruth had he >been that close. > >Long live Willie Mays, now unquestionably the greatest living ballplayer. >(though truth be told, Mays--who lost about 100 HR's to military service >himself--has held that position for at least 35 years, despite what anyone >in the DiMaggio camp says). But hey, you have to admit that for a 13 year career in a stadium that is not condusive to a power hitting right hander dimaggios numbers are mindblowing. http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml Max(who is not big on one being better than another but who thinks Dimaggio was incredible,as was Mays) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:10:20 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: REAP John Frankenheimer. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:22:53 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: reap >PS: None of this is meant to slight Robyn Hitchcock, who, had he not missed >his entire playing career due to a devotion to rock & roll, surely would >have socked about 790 homers. ah yes, one of the few hitters able to play the famed "Open the door" homer. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:23:18 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: Surrealist post generator On 6 Jul 2002 at 17:11, No Name wrote: > Shell: > > >aren't nearly all sex crimes against women a result of hate? > > good point. And arent most crimes? In most crimes dosn't > hate outweigh love? The mythical father stealing to get his kid > life-saving medicine is pretty mythical, and if true, not really a crime > thou it may be illegal. Euthenasia would be a better example of a crime committed for love. But your point stands. > Why do (some) guys hate woman with such viralence? Woman can hate guys too > but I don't think with anything like the fevor or malice that guys can > reserve for us. >Thinking about it I actually came to the concliusion that > its becasue woman can be part male(And I don't just mean imaginatively, or > that we both have both sexs' hormones in us), and its hard to hate in that > way what can be a part of yourself. What I mean is that woman may bear male > children. So somehow we don't see males as quite as "other" as males can see > us. > > Anyway, since there are a bunch of smart males > and females on this list, I was wondering how others view this. > [snip] Is > my premise wrong, is there no tendency for guys to hate females more than > females hate males? You may feel that way because you don't harbour any hate for men. Until they can measure love and hate, it's not up for debate. We can look at the effects, though: women seem to be (saying "seem" because I don't have stats handy) the victims of crimes of violence committed by men more than the reverse. That could lead you to conclude something like "men hate women more than women hate men" except that it fails to take into account a bunch of other things, like average physical strength of men vs women. What is the percentage of violent crime committed by people of superior strength against those who are weaker? Is this just a case of the powerful abusing the relatively powerless? What about women who abuse and kill their children? That's common enough. If women don't hate men as much because they can bear male children, how come they harm their own children so often? I'm sure some would find a way to blame that on the stress induced on them by men. I can trot out examples of female serial killers, spouse abusers, child molesters, rapists, hawkish leaders, etc. The difference seems to be in the percentages, and that makes me wonder what the factors really are. I'd guess they're many, and complex, and that generalisations about men, women and violence aren't going to get us too far. >And if my premise is not wrong, what accounts for it? Guessing: pop culture? There was a multiple murder here in Montreal some years back. Some idiot killed several female engineering students. In this case, he felt that his own rejected application to the school was due to the presence of these female students, and he was going to exact his revenge. Fits in pretty well with what you said, doesn't it? What bugs me is that I saw plenty of references to this guy in the press (and grafitti) as the agent of society -- that the crime was "a political crime of men against women". This dipshit may have acted in the name of males, but not with their authority or approval. It seemed to make a lot of people feel better to be able to look at men in general as being responsible for this, perhaps because they could still scowl and point at someone. The real killer (and his personal attitude) died the same day as his victims. The popular explanation strikes me as extremely lazy (and maybe an indication of some degree of hatred for men). Question: how come males have produced so much art and science compared to females? Is it hormones or opportunity? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:22:35 -0400 From: R Edward Poole Subject: misogyny Kay: > Why do (some) guys hate woman with such viralence? Woman can hate guys > too > but I don't think with anything like the fevor or malice that guys can > reserve for us. Thinking about it I actually came to the concliusion > that > its becasue woman can be part male(And I don't just mean imaginatively, > or > that we both have both sexs' hormones in us), and its hard to hate in > that > way what can be a part of yourself. What I mean is that woman may bear > male > children. So somehow we don't see males as quite as "other" as males > can see > us. > That's a much bigger question than I think we could do justice to here, but I think a big part of it is tied up in the (perceived) power dynamics at work in the minds of at least some portion of misogynists. It may sound ridiculous, but I think some men experience a loss of / threat to their "power" in their relationships with women -- possibly tied to some oedipal considerations, I don't know. But in several areas, primarily sexual (inability to find a woman who consents to sexual relations; the experience of impotence -- where the woman is at least a witness to the man's sexual powerlessness, or perhaps is believed to be the "cause" of said powerlessness), but not exclusively, such men feel that women hold power over them or have unwanted knowledge of their weaknesses (this is not necessarily, and probably rarely is, consciously understood by the man). For such extremely insecure men (and I think most of the worst women-haters so qualify), these "threats" are incompatible with their image of male "power." In their twisted logic, physical domination and emotional degradation are the way to reassert their power -- and their anger and hatred are not confined the any particular women, but are directed to all. I'm sure that there is also a latent fear of homosexuality that is triggered by experiences of powerlessness at the hands of women (I'm not saying any of this makes sense, mind you, only that I think it happens). But, as far as your explanation goes, I think there's some truth to that -- my wife (and mother of two boys) has expressed similar sentiments. Women also seem less prone to abstractions about groups of people and more likely to experience people in specific relationships, rather than as members of groups. this captures very little of the issue, I know, but the boys have to go to bed now. you've reminded me just how much there is to teach them (and, hopefully, prevent them from ever learning in the first place). - -ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:43:30 -0800 From: noe shalev Subject: Re: weeellllll unce upon a time, Thursday, July 4, 2002, Jill typed this: Jill Brand> Sebastian wrote: Jill Brand> "We have this in Germany, and have had this forever, AFAIC. It's called Jill Brand> "Personalausweis". You're *supposed* to have it on you at all times, but Jill Brand> that isn't really enforced. I don't feel negatively about this at all. Jill Brand> Germany is no police state. It's not like you are controlled all the time Jill Brand> or anything." We have it in Israel too, and usualy it's not enforced being carried, but we are so used to having an ID - have always some sort of ID on us. if it's not the proper ID it's the driving licence or other governmental card for anything as long as it contains your ID number and a photo. now the number is a main thing here. you can't do anything without one. you need it for any sort of registration and basically it's you. Jill Brand> I'm assuming that things have changed a great deal in Germany since I Jill Brand> lived there from 1975-1978, but I've got to say, at that time, the Jill Brand> 'control' of identity wasn't equally distributed. I have dark hair and, Jill Brand> when tan, have extremely dark skin. I lived in Hamburg, where I learned Jill Brand> to redefine the concept of blond (new definition: albino but with blue Jill Brand> eyes). I was routinely stopped and asked for my ID because of my Jill Brand> coloring, no doubt about it. Over here if your'e an Arab you better have the ID on you. especially at this times of terror attacks, they stop Arab people and ask for ID in the case of Israelu citizens and another permit in case of non citizen arabs. Jill Brand> The goal was to kick undocumented guest Jill Brand> workers out of the country. wello the goal here, or at least the official one is to fight possible terror attack. but no one can realy tell the limit between a genuine concern and pure racism. Jill Brand> The ID isn't the problem. It's the way it is used that can be the Jill Brand> problem. Most people don't realize that until they themselves have been Jill Brand> singled out and treated with little respect. I'd say more/ the ID is not somthing for itself, as I mentioned the ID number earlier, the concern is about the centralised database involved. well to be honest when I came to London UK back in 1989, I was shocked to find out that they don't have IDs. wel of course it gave me certain freedoms I didn't have at home, but honestly, the only freedoms I could think of were criminal. really. and thus, I felt very insecure because iof that. for instance I paid my landlord six months in advance, and if he's not the owner of the house? wwho is he? will I be able to ever find him? well theremore of it, but I realy felt unsecure by the fact that people can disapear. that no one can be identified to me positively. Noe Shalev IDN 02260761 -8 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:59:40 -0400 From: mike hooker Subject: extra discs hi, i burned the 6-24-00 hitchcock/phillips seattle gig for some trades, and fucked up and burned twice as many as i needed. there are two extra sets if anyone wants to trade. they sound real nice. please see my music trading page: New URL http://hometown.aol.com/mhooker216/myhomepage/index.html being its AOL, its not always up. try it a few times, or ask me for a text list. thanks have fun, mike hooker ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:52:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Surrealist post generator No Name wrote: > Shell: > > >aren't nearly all sex crimes against women a result of hate? not that they are as common, of course, but I would think most sex crimes against men would be somewhat hate driven as well. > good point. And arent most crimes? I would think that greed, narcissism, laziness, and idiocy drive more criminal activity than hate. I mean, you don't rob a liquor store because you hate the owner -- you do it cuz you're too lazy and greedy to earn money legitimately. you don't drunkenly drive out of hate -- you do it cuz you're stupid and selfish. rape (or other sexual assaults) and murder are probably the only crimes committed more often in the name of hate than not. ===== "This week, the White House says President Bush meant no disrespect when he referred to the Pakistani people as 'Pakis.' But just to be on the safe side, White House staffers have cancelled his trip to Nigeria" -- Tina Fey, Saturday Night Live's "Weekend Update" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:18:21 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: violence against women I don't have time to write - studying and all, but I'll tell you there is a discrepancy btw violence against women by men and violence against men by women. (It is about the same btw gay men and gay women) I spent about 2 years working at shelters and family crisis centers. We "advertised" for all people, i.e. help men too. But the effects in society in the USA of family violence is men lashing out at women, and often their children. I have written literally hundreds of TROs and most of them are women getting away from men. And I have lost clients. 2 of them were eventually killed by their spouse after our help. These crimes are much different that crimes motivated by greed or need - i.e. armed robbery. There is no economic gain from these crimes. There is economic loss, i.e. women cannot be part of the economy (which is how the VAW Act was going for - i.e. women cannot participate in interstate commerce bcs of this violence - a stretch I know - which is why the act was deemed beyond Congress' power to leg) my 2 cents eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:57:01 -0700 From: drew Subject: hang on to your ID >> gSs: >> you may actually have to leave the plant. a national id is coming soon, >> then: >> >> earthid.gov The specified server could not be found. What a relief that technology is as unreliable as ever! > From: Aaron Mandel > Also... you like Cinerama but haven't heard the Weddoes? I tried an album and an EP (unfortunately I can't recall the title of either offhand) the other day and didn't like either one. Sometimes that happens -- I like Aimee Mann's solo work a hell of a lot more than any of the 'til tuesday albums, for example (except for Everything's Different Now, which might as well be a solo album). Sinatra: I actually haven't heard much of his music, but I rented his version of Ocean's Eleven a few weeks ago. A less charming reptile I have yet to imagine. Floyd: an acquired taste, no doubt, but it didn't take me long to manage it. The trouble I have is that Gilmour is boring and Waters is obnoxious and Barrett is gone early on, so it's a delicate balance. I definitely see the "guy thing," Kay. > From: gSs > Write to MTV Where would I start? > From: "Rex.Broome" > > Rock on with that one! A strange misapprehension about atheists is that > they are somehow nihilists (or callous hedonists). My fault -- I'm a hedonist. Though perhaps not a callous one. Drew ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #223 ********************************