From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #207 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, June 28 2002 Volume 11 : Number 207 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: REAP [Dolph Chaney ] RIP ["Marc Holden" ] Re: Solaris and time [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] reap [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: REAP [rosso@videotron.ca] Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY [rosso@videotron.ca] Re: Bush-ish to End All Bush-isms [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: time takes a cigarette and it won't wait for me [Sebastian Hagedorn <] Re: Solaris and time [Sebastian Hagedorn ] New Sonic Youth (Robyn content) ["matt sewell" ] Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY [" FS Thomas" ] Re: Solaris and time [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Divadends from Hell ["No Name" ] Re: Solaris and time [Ken Weingold ] Re: REAP [gSs ] Re: Bad fantasy films (was heathe(n/r)) [steve ] Re: REAP [rosso@videotron.ca] More on the 9th: ["FS Thomas" ] Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: REAP At 09:38 PM 6/27/02 -0400, FS Thomas wrote: > > John Entwistle. >To quote Neil, "Wow. I'm depressed." Me too. I'm annoying my neighbors by full-on cranking my THE WHO SELL OUT reissue. "In The Hall Of The Mountain King" just came on. Awwwww yeah. I'm the biggest Who fan under 30 I know -- I spent most of my first year of guitar learning Who songs and when I was 17 was capable of playing the songs from "The Kids Are Alright" movie and reciting the interviews between the songs. This blows oxen. dolph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 19:05:14 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: RIP John Entwistle I can't begin to express how upsetting this one is. I had tickets to see the Who this Saturday. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:17:46 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Solaris and time >Is there anyone here who actually knows about time-space? The last thing I >saw on the subject was a Ken Campbell show* where he reminisced about a TV >series in which he interviewed famous physicists, and also talked about >some deeply crazy people he had known over the years. The point was that >the physicists' ideas were far more bizarre than those held by the people >who were about to be sectioned ... I'll try to get Alice to write something for y'all perhaps (If I can coax her to a screen). > I didn't like it either. Usually I like Tarkovski, but I don't even > really care for the book. To many people Solaris is the pinnacle of > science fiction, but I remain underwhelmed. Maybe I'm not old and > mature enough to appreciate it ;-) It's a pinnacle of eastern European sf. Russian science fiction in particular is very slow moving and has a grace that is lacking in its western counterpart. Then again, the same is true to an extent with eastern European literature in general. Most people brought up with western concepts of science fiction find a lot of it (including Solaris) akin to watching the world paint-drying championships, and it is definitely an acquired taste, but don't write it off for that. To people brought up in the tradition and used to this sort of science fiction, it is a classic. >>is velocity the only factor in space? > >That and ghosts. Outer space is filled with itsy-bitsy ghosts of every >creature on every planet that has ever lived, all holding hands and hooves >and tentacles and pseudopodia and singing praises to the Phantom King. Get >some of these clogged in your flux capacitors, and it's adios hyperspace >for thou. uhhuh. And scientists recently discovered that the 'dark matter' that makes up 90% of the mass of the universe is actually shed cat hair. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:17:58 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: reap John Entwistle!? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:26:05 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: REAP On 27 Jun 2002 at 21:38, FS Thomas wrote: > I saw the Quadrophenia show probably three years ago > and was absolutely enthralled. Man! I saw that show about 20 years ago. I think we're living in slightly overlapping universes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:37:57 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY On 27 Jun 2002 at 21:36, FS Thomas wrote: > It's a matter of personal descretion. Bullshit. The average grade-school student is well-equipped to fly in the face of not only peer pressure, but pressure from authority, right?. Freedom of speech my ass! The pledge of allegiance isn't exactly something where everybody stands up and says what's on their minds. Why is a Canadian saying this? They only just put "God" into our national anthem, and it's got me pissed. That they would meld religion with nationalism in my country is disturbing. That some won't see the problem with a relatively recent move to do the same in a country that purports to separate church from state is something I find shocking. Jesus Christ, Ferris -- it's not like the pledge is a child's only chance for exposure to monotheism. Why the package deal? What are churches for? PS: when churches get "patriotic" it can give me the creeps, too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:58:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Bush-ish to End All Bush-isms First: hear, hear! Second: While capitalism may be an engine that drives a productive economy, such an an engine also needs brakes and a steering wheel. And the variety of capitalism that Bush et al. favor is rather akin to some huge, crushing, speeding vehicle, in no one's real control, destroying all that might fall in its path, rather like an enormous...iron sledge, yes, that's it! I wonder if anyone's ever made that comparison before. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: __Robert Desnos__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:59:50 -0400 From: " FS Thomas" Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY - ----- Original Message ----- From: > PS: when churches get "patriotic" it can give me the creeps, too. Amen, brother. > Jesus Christ, Ferris -- it's not like the pledge is a child's only chance for > exposure to monotheism. Why the package deal? No. And Polythesim doesn't get nearly enough exposure these days. The Pledge of Alliegience is simply a stating of support for the country. I don't whole-heartedly support everything this nation--it's leaders or corporations or a heap of its people--does, but it's what I'm thankful it is what I was given Yes it's imperfect, but it is the leader in a civilized rat race. If you find flaws in it then try to change it. If you can't change or haven't the motivation to try and can't live with the conditions, then the world's a big, big place. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:40:53 -0400 From: Keith Hanlon Subject: Re: My Morning Jacket/W. Zevon Hello, My Morning Jacket's lead singer, Jim James, is an amazing talent. If you can see him solo, you will be witness to a future legend. This guy knows his musical history... it's all there in his voice and his songs. The Neil Young comparisons are fair, but I've never heard Neil sing with such emotion (at least not in the last 25 years). MMJ's new split-single with Songs:Ohia is a good starting point. Their double-LP "At Dawn" is another good one to check out. Keith - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Here are some websites: http://www.orchestraville.com http://www.citizenkeith.com http://www.zapruderred.net And the best email client for Windows: The Bat! http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> For some reason, on Wednesday, June 26, 2002, 4:14:42 PM, you wrote: >>From Natalie: >>>The opening band was My Morning Jacket. I've heard a lot of good things >>>about them, but was depressed to discover that they sounded remarkably > like >>>Lynyrd Skynyrd and were prone to "jamming." > Hmmm. I won a copy of their last album off the radio and liked it a good > deal, more than the live set they did on the same station. Some of the > tunes were really quite touching and I played it a lot more than most > freebies. But even I must ask myself how many bands with guys that sound > just like Neil Young I can fully embrace... Flaming Lips, Mercury Rev, Giant > Sand, My Morning Jacket... there must be a limit! Oh yeah, America. I > don't especially like America. > James provides: > (exhaustive list of Warren Zevon collaborators) > ...to which you can add the goup of novelists who provided the lyrics to his > new record, which I haven't heard. Anyone? > Zevon is awfully underrated in general. When I was a kid I bought a 45 of > "Werewolves" which turned out to be some weird, fierce live version where > Warren sang it as "Werewolves of Los Angeles" half the time, and screamed > "He'll rip your lungs out, Jim/And he's lookin' for... JAMES TAYLOR!!!!" I > thought that was mighty cool. I mean, Zevon and Taylor probably hang out > and everything, but they're practically antithetical as sobgwriters. > Looking forward to Lilo & Stitch... weighing whether or not to take the > kid... she made it through Atlantis but she a LOT more mobile these days... > -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:36:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, FS Thomas wrote: > The Pledge of Alliegience is simply a stating of > support for the country. I don't whole-heartedly > support everything this nation--it's leaders or > corporations or a heap of its people--does, but it's > what I'm thankful it is what I was given Yes it's > imperfect, but it is the leader in a civilized rat > race. The PoA *was* "simply a stating of support for the country" until 1954, when the words "under God" were inserted, thereby making it also a statement of support for the concept of a deity. What should happen is simply to go back to the pre-1954 PoA. Although the point of reciting a rote pledge, most of whose terms and ideas are only dimly understood by the children being asked to recite it, strikes me as a stupid mode of citizenship, esp. if we want to value those freedoms in the First Amendment rather than just lip-service them. And making it mandatory? How ironic can you get? "By force of law, I am compelled to speak these words affirming my allegiance to the principles of freedom of speech, freedom of religion..." As to your earlier question of "injury": there is a distinction between the free speech of individuals and the speech of individuals speaking on behalf of a public entity. A teacher or principal leading the PoA is clearly representing that public body - and as such, should not be in a position of endorsing one religion (or religion generally) over any other or lack of religion. And so the injury is in placing the atheist child (or one who refuses for whatever other reason to recite the pledge) in a socially debilitating position, as if s/he is less of a citizen than the other students in the class. The First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law...respecting an establishment of religion": granted, this says "Congress," but over the years (and with some legal support: someone help me here), the principles undergirding the Constitution have been seen as informing other legislative bodies (states, municipalities, etc.). Otherwise, of course, your county board could run roughshod over all your constitutional rights by limiting speech, right of assembly, etc. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ np: The Loud Family _From Ritual to Romance_ (new live CD) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:56:42 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Who has OS X? Sure, what do you need? - -tc on 6/27/02 12:29 PM, Ken Weingold at hazmat@hellrot.org wrote: > Sorry to be so OT here, but anyone here running Mac OS X 10.1.5? I > need a very small file from it. Itprobably can be from an earlier > 10.1, though. > > Thanks. > > > -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:01:15 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: time takes a cigarette and it won't wait for me - --On Thursday, June 27, 2002 15:42:23 -0500 Mike Wells wrote: > Me, > I'm picking Brazil to win 117 - 0...don't ask me why, they just seem to > be on a roll right now. No way! I'm not saying that Germany will actually win, but unless Oliver Kahn gets injured or sent off it is going to be a narrow margin. I don't see Brazil scoring more than two goals against him. > And Sebastian, > I'm claiming dibs on staying with you in 2006. Alright! This time around Cologne is one of the cities where games will be played, as opposed to 1974. They chose Dusseldorf then - blasphemy! - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Being just contaminates the void - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:28:20 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Solaris and time - --On Friday, June 28, 2002 14:17:46 +1200 James Dignan wrote: >> I didn't like it either. Usually I like Tarkovski, but I don't even >> really care for the book. To many people Solaris is the pinnacle of >> science fiction, but I remain underwhelmed. Maybe I'm not old and >> mature enough to appreciate it ;-) > > It's a pinnacle of eastern European sf. Russian science fiction in > particular is very slow moving and has a grace that is lacking in its > western counterpart. Absolutely. I can appreciate that, but in the case of Solaris it didn't work for me. I prefer the Strugatsky brothers (the authors of "Roadside Picnic", the novel "Stalker" is based on) to Lem for the most part. > Then again, the same is true to an extent with > eastern European literature in general. I love Russian literature. Bulgakov's "Master and Margarita", Dostoevsky, Cekhov, Turgenev - I haven't yet read any Gogol or Tolstoi. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Being just contaminates the void - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:57:01 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: New Sonic Youth (Robyn content) My spies tell me that Robyn was spotted backstage at a Sonic Youth show in London recently... I wonder whether it's Robyn who's the fan or if it's Michele..? Are they actually any good anymore? I lost track round about Goo... Daydream Nation remains one of the best albums in my collection, though... Cheers Matt >From: "Rex.Broome" >Reply-To: "Rex.Broome" >To: "'fegmaniax@smoe.org'" >Subject: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY >Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:00:16 -0700 > >From: R Edward Poole > >>oh, and please let's not start calling each other names now that I've > >>mentioned a political issue, because I'll feel really really guilty for > >>setting a match to that fire > >In the same spirt, a minor rant: the Supreme Court yesterday struck down the >phrase "under God" in the pledge of allegaiance as inconstitutional. Just >good common sense, really, but you could feel the firestorm brewing. So >today the Senate opens up with a big bi-partisan showing to recite the >pledge with the offending line intact, and makes a big stink about how we >are "one nation, under God, and proud of it" etc. > >So congratulations to them. My government has *finally* found a way to >*officially* disenfranchise me, a straight white male of all things, for my >beliefs, or lack thereof as it happens. Chalk it up to the creeping >post-9/11 anti-atheism... remember the "day of prayer", and all the talk of >how "everyone of all faiths" (usuallly meaning just the Abrahamic ones but >occasionally tossing in Buddhism for good measure) stood together against >evil and all that? Nice to know I rate lower than a murderous zealot. > >I spent the "day of prayer" listening to New York rock & roll, which was the >most "religious" thing I coould think of. > >Speaking of which, the new Sonic Youth is actually quite good, although not >quite the "return to form" touted by the critics... that's partially >sympathetic post-9/11 windfall as well, but mostly due to the fact that >they've been gradually returning to form over the last few, >critically-neglected records anyway. Still not a genuinely "bad" record in >their catalog. Just to back up the rant with a little positivi-tee. > >-Rex > >(BTW, I totally like and respect religious folks, but how about a little >love?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:13:52 -0400 From: " FS Thomas" Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" To: "It's Not Just the Size of a Walnut" Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 11:36 PM Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY > The PoA *was* "simply a stating of support for the country" until 1954, > when the words "under God" were inserted, thereby making it also a > statement of support for the concept of a deity. "Incidentally, if the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional, the Constitution must be unconstitutional too. Just above the names of the Constitution's signers appear the following words: Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution, which defines the "pocket veto," also stipulates: If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law. Sundays excepted? That would never happen in a nation under Zeus." (James Taranto) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:10:39 -0400 From: " FS Thomas" Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" > ...the injury is in placing the atheist child (or > one who refuses for whatever other reason to recite the pledge) in a > socially debilitating position, as if s/he is less of a citizen than the > other students in the class. Would you say, then, that by recognizing Kwanzaa in school or having Christmas and Chanukah off as vacation days that you're injuring that child as well? It is, after all, acknowledging a religion? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:58:05 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Solaris and time >I love Russian literature. Bulgakov's "Master and Margarita", Dostoevsky, >Cekhov, Turgenev - I haven't yet read any Gogol or Tolstoi. I have a copy of "The Master and Margarita" sitting only a couple of metres from me as I type! AND I've just finished watching a (German) video that is anything but slow moving - Run Lola Run (third time I've seen it, and I loved it just as much this time as the first time!) James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:15:47 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: several types of religion >could be a neat way of sneaking sex education into class; aren't there >several Amazon-basin religions which involve deities shagging things >into life? If not, there should be. Well, according to the Maori the universe was created that way (when the sky God Rangi lay with the earth god Papa (confusingly, Papa is the female)! And don't forget all those lovely Greek myths with Zeus being, um, proactive in his dealings with mortals. >I'm picking Brazil to win 117 - 0...don't ask me why. it'll happen in one of those multiverses, but probably not this one. >Someone probably already stated this - this is not exactly a matter of >free speech. freedom of speech implies the freedom NOT to speak. Is reciting the pledge compulsory? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:36:17 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Stewart Russell wrote: > It's still a breach of the peace in England (and may still be in > Scotland, too). They thought about repealing the blasphemy laws last > year, but (AFAIR) they never got round to it. No-one's been prosecuted > for it for a very long time. Well, it may be a very long time to you, Stewart, but it's only a twinkling of an eye to me since the 1976 conviction of Gay News for blasphemy. They published this poem by James Kirkup: and were successfully prosecuted by the famous anti-permissiveness campaigner Mary Whitehouse. More recently, the same poem was read on TV by Joan Bakewell, and a further prosecution was contemplated: - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:11:29 -0400 From: Stewart Russell Subject: Re: Solaris and time Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > ... but in the case of Solaris it didn't work for me. It certainly didn't for me this morning. I came in to find my Ultra 10's hard disk utterly hosed. Takes about a week to do a proper Solaris install. weak humour, I know. But we've just got a house, and after nearly three months of house sitting, it feels good. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:23:54 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Solaris and time - --On Friday, June 28, 2002 09:11:29 -0400 Stewart Russell wrote: > Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> >> ... but in the case of Solaris it didn't work for me. > > It certainly didn't for me this morning. ;-) > I came in to find my Ultra 10's > hard disk utterly hosed. Takes about a week to do a proper Solaris > install. I'm on an Ultra 1 myself. It's still got Solaris 2.6, because I'm too lazy to upgrade ... most of my work is on a SunFire 6800, though ;-) > weak humour, I know. But we've just got a house, and after nearly three > months of house sitting, it feels good. I for one appreciated it. Take care, Sebastian - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Being just contaminates the void - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:27:01 +0000 From: "No Name" Subject: Divadends from Hell Since the only god this culture really pays attention to (vr pretends to pay attention to) is materialism, i.e power and money, I want to bring a case before the the Supreme Court stating that my right to freedom of religion is infringed by pop-up ads. If only(sigh) Kay "Your hair is reminiscent of a digesting yak." Surrealist compliment generator. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:27:27 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Solaris and time On Fri, Jun 28, 2002, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > I'm on an Ultra 1 myself. It's still got Solaris 2.6, because I'm too lazy > to upgrade ... most of my work is on a SunFire 6800, though ;-) Wow, my SPARCstation 2 has Solaris 7. :) The Blade has 8. Update, you lazy sod. ;-) - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:31:31 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: REAP On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 rosso@videotron.ca wrote: > > I saw the Quadrophenia show probably three years ago > > and was absolutely enthralled. > > Man! I saw that show about 20 years ago. I think we're living in > slightly overlapping universes. actually it's recurring blocks along the same line. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:45:13 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Bad fantasy films (was heathe(n/r)) On Thursday, June 27, 2002, at 08:06 PM, Andrew D. Simchik wrote: > _Labyrinth_: now there was a shite film, Bowie or > no Bowie. I realize I'm the only human on the > planet who feels this way, but I really did despise > just about every labored, annoying moment of that > allegedly charming fantasy. I don't think you're alone. It's worse than Willow, even. But The Dark Crystal would give it a run. - - Steve __________ Do you think Americans should ask God to grant George W. Bush the power to fly? House majority whip Tom DeLay, the ability to predict the future? Senate majority leader Tom Daschle, X-ray vision? In a prayer written for the National Day of Prayer, May 2, the Reverend Lloyd Olgivie, the Senate chaplain, asks God to "bless our President, Congress, and all our leaders with supernatural power." He didn't beseech God to endow them with strength and wisdom--a more reasonable request--but to make them superheroes. - David Corn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:21:40 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: REAP On 27 Jun 2002 at 18:19, Maximilian Lang wrote: > John Entwistle. No! I only read today that Townshend had agreed to make another Who album. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:58:09 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: More on the 9th: A novel rip on the 9th Circuit Court and their at-times foolish ways. http://www.nationalreview.com/dunphy/dunphy062702.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:13:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: One Nation, Somewhat Divisible / New SY On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, FS Thomas wrote: > Would you say, then, that by recognizing Kwanzaa in > school or having Christmas and Chanukah off as vacation > days that you're injuring that child as well? It is, > after all, acknowledging a religion? I'm not sure, but I don't think Kwanzaa is religious per se (what religion does it celebrate?). And most public schools officially refer to "holiday break," not invoking any particular holiday - could be New Year's Day. I suppose if you want to get technical, public schools shouldn't acknowledge Christmas at all. But as with most things, action doesn't happen until a suit is brought. I suppose, too, that in a student body primarily Jewish, or Buddhist, etc., Christmas isn't celebrated. Then again, Christmas has become an almost wholly secular holiday anyway: between its modern strictly commercial overlay and the well-established borrowings from pagan traditions, there's very little specifically Christian about it, at least in its public manifestations (i.e., decoration in shopping malls, etc.). But your question had to do with "injury": I think there's a huge difference in effect between the student body en masse chanting "under God," and an abstract, free-floating knowledge that one of the reasons school isn't being held such-and-such a week is become some religion or other has a holiday then. No one is forcing anyone to acknowledge those religious holidays; you can call it solstice break, New Year's break, mid-winter break, etc. It is difficult, though, in a society most of whose members consider themselves religious, specifically Christian, to extirpate *all* traces of that religious background from public settings. Some of that, as you note, would fall under the protected rubric of freedom of speech - but I think it's important to maintain an impression of neutrality with regard to religion. Another possibility might be, say, re religious holidays, to acknowledge them as "coming from" the students: i.e., "who in this class celebrates Chanukah? David, Sarah, Alan, tell us how your families celebrate." And so on, for whatever religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are present in the calssroom. So long as this isn't coercive, and is presented as a sharing of difference, I suppose this could work, and would not be regarded as endorsing any particular religous viewpoint. The ridiculousness of this particular issue, though, is what a shallow notion of "religion" is at hand (or "patriotism" for that matter). And of course the irony: if it were true for those arguing against the decision that the reference is neutral, not referring to any particular belief, why would they be so upset about its removal? How would they feel if the Pledge said "under Allah," coins said "in Allah we trust," etc. - on the grounds that "Allah" (if I recall correctly) etymologically means something like "most high" and arguably could be a generic? And of course the further irony: no one is stopping anyone (except the teacher or principal) from tossing in "under God" if they so desire. This is about the same sort of shallow assertion of conformity that motivated the zillion (now absent) flags every which where post 9-11. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, apologizing to the non-US portion of the list... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #207 ********************************