From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #130 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, April 21 2002 Volume 11 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Appleism! [steve ] Re: Colour question [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Chills news [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: the Drude [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Element of lighting, band names [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Element of light (reflected) [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] DVDs (So far off-topic it's almost on-topic again) ["Matt Browne" ] Re: Element of light (reflected) [rosso@videotron.ca] Fwd: Robyn Mouths Off in new book [invader woj ] REAP ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: REAP [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Beat The Geeks music geek comments on Robyn ["Mike O'Connor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:20:52 -0500 From: steve Subject: Appleism! > That's right, new Macs are based on Darwinism! While they currently > don't advertise this fact to consumers, it is well known among the > computer elite, who are mostly Atheists and Pagans. http://members.truepath.com/objective/propaganda.html - - Steve __________ I know from first-hand experience that a president acting secretly usually does not have the best interests of Americans in mind. Rather, it is his own personal interests that are at stake. - John Dean, on George W. Bush ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:13:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Colour question On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Eugene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > For example, I was once utterly hypnotized by a charcoal study by Odd Nerdrum > of a brick. It was actually the study for this oil painting: > > . This *is* wonderful. And "Odd Nerdrum" is a wonderful name. It has that slightly off quality, as if someone from another dimension were attempting to pass as human but not quite succeeding (see also: session guitarist Gurf Morlix). - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:43:45 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Chills news Todays Otago Daily Times newspaper reports that the Chills are working on a new album (with the working title of "Silver Bullets" - must ask Martin why all the albums have SB initials sometime), and Martin Phillipps is officially clear of Hepatitis C - he was one of the lucky 40% for whom the treatment is a complete success. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:44:18 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: the Drude >From: Miles Goosens > >WORLD SHUT YOUR MOUTH (1984). James is sure to add Cope's other 1984 >record, FRIED, which I like too, but not nearly as much. > >20 MOTHERS was my #1 album of 1995. It, JEHOVAHKILL, and WORLD SHUT YOUR >MOUTH, those are the three I always think of as the best. surprisingly, although I like a few tracks on it (someone qactually heard "Laughing boy" on student radio here once and thought it was me!), it's not at the top of my Copey list. I'd say 1) World Shut your Mouth (with the glorious Head Hang Low); 2) 20 Mothers; 3) Jehovahkill; 4) (believe it or not!) My nation underground. I know the last of these is usually regarded as a dog by Julian fans, but I think it's good, if more commercial than much of his other work. The commercial pinnacle would be 6) Saint Julian, however. Fried would come in at 5. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:44:29 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Element of lighting, band names >>It could be because colours >>created with light are additive (put the three primaries together and you >>get white), whereas paint colours are subtractive (put the three primaries >>together and theoretically you get black). However, using glass as a filter >>is also a subtractive technique (red glass is actually glass that filters >>out everything but red). > >All colors are "created with light." What you see when you view red paint >is red light reflecting off the paint, while the other colors of light are >absorbed.it. yeah. typing faster than I think while trying to keep things simple, that's my trouble. >This probably has more to do with the intensity of energy from the color >source. Your eyes not only see the three primary colors (cones) but also >brightness (rods). The experience of viewing a direct radiant light source >is fundamentally different from seeing a little light reflected off a >cooler surface - more rod stimulation. Viewing a room temperature >Kandinsky is probably a more subtle experience than would be viewing the >same painting raised to 400 degrees (hypothetically assuming the material >of the artwork could withstand such temperatures). there is an experiential content to the percept, sure, but that is nothing to do with the rods and cones, and is more to do with the conditions of the viewer and his/her surroundings. I gave two examples (that of the use of red glass as a filter, and of the coluor of grass under sodium light. One of these is direct illumination of the retina from the light source, the ther is illumination from reflected light. Similarly you could send a gif of a Kandinsky to someone, and they would be viewing the colours on their screen via direct illumination. Furthermore, cones give information about brightness (well, luminance if you want to be picky) as well as colour, and our scotopic vision cells (the rods) do not normally come into play to a large extent unless lighting conditions are very low. what's more, the number of rods is very low in the macula lutea, which is the primary surface from which we gather information about the objects we are seeing. There are virtually none at all at the foveal point. Gah. I thought I'd given up this sort of visual perception with my PhD. BTW, according to the vision researchers I was partying with last night, the correct answer is the source vs reflective (additive vs subtractive) light one, with a dash of the experiential (i.e., state of mind of the observer) thrown in for good measure. - --- >>Ruff Chylde folk-metal, with maybe a dash of pub-rock thrown in for good measure - compare Jethro Tull >>Lordly Nightshade much more metal, but much less folk - compare Dokken >>The Modern Lizard Quartet experimental, artsy, acoustic. Lots of trad instruments - compare Penguin Cafe Orchestra >>Milkweed Hill Good ol' boy c&w, maybe with a dash of zydeco - um...I'm at a loss here >>Manxish Boy tongue-in-cheek brit wideboys - Blur meets Snuff. >> Viewing a room temperature >> Kandinsky is probably a more subtle experience than would be viewing the >> same painting raised to 400 degrees (hypothetically assuming the material >> of the artwork could withstand such temperatures). > >Interestingly, this very phenomenon explains why all paintings, as the >approach the speed of light, turn into Vermeers (when viewed from the front, >when viewed from back they all look like Seurats). it all looks like a load of Pollocks to me. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:45:39 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Element of light (reflected) Eugene Hopstetter, Jr asks some wonderful questions: 1) >Now I know I'd be foolish to question someone's knowledge about the science of >light and color and perception (and I do agree with what has been said about >the physical characteristics of light), but I have to ask: Is Perfect Color >Fidelity even necessary for a painting to be succesful? And to that I say, >It's the Light! true. We weren't really arguing as to whether a painting can be successful - - this is often unrfelated to thw question of whether a particular colour can be reproduced (which is where the discussion had been, erm, focussed). Part of the impetus behind the impressionist school of painting was the idea that what we perceive as a colour is not what we think we perceive. The sky is blue, the hills are green, the sea is somewhere between the two, right? Not usually. Hills on a hot summer's day can be reddish brown, even when covered in grass. And distant hills are blueish. The sky can be yellowish near the horizon, and the sea's colour changes between a myriad of colours. Many of the greatest paintings deliberately use colours that are not accurate, in order to create a mood or impression, or to reflect (if you'll pardon the term) what the artist wanted the viewer to see or feel. IMHO one of the greatest landscape painters ever was Canaletto, yet his skies are an unnatural blue. Use of paint by Turner and by Friedrich is genius, but the colours are not those of the real scenes that they was depicting. And many more modern artists deliberately eschew realistic colours for effect - have a look at one of the most famous non-abstract works of the 1890s, Munch's "The scream". The colours there are colours of the mind of the screamer, not the colours of the landscape. Erm... was that what you were asking? 2) >Light is the medium of color, right? And the eye is the receptor, right? >Well, that's how I regard it. And that's why I think the best non-Abstract, >non-Plastic, figurative painters are those who understand light best. True. And the understanding of colour is usually (if not always) part and parcel of understanding about light. It is possible to find a top non-abstract painter who does not understand colour, but I doubt there are many who do not understand light. 3) >Can true light, shadow, distance, gradation, and so on, be better reproduced >than color? Those things can definitely be reproduced to some extent without colour. To remove colour from the mix is to remove one of our more important cues to perceiving distance. But it is far from the most important cue. If it were, then the great black and white landscape photographers such as Ansel Adams would have never achieved what they did. But because colour is a cue, then it is necessary to understand some part of colour's nature in order to reproduce these aspects of any scene successfully. I think it all boils down to successful non-abstract painters being those that can use what colours they have available to them in concert in such a way that the paintings they create carry some sense of the balance between the light and dark elements and the various colours within the objects they represent. Erm. If that makes any sense. >(Oh, and Thomas Kinckaid, the Painter of Light, can kiss my lilly-white ass.) feh. The painter of light was JMW Turner! James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:36:35 +0100 From: "Matt Browne" Subject: DVDs (So far off-topic it's almost on-topic again) Can anyone recommend a good online store for buying North American (Region 1) DVDs at a cheap price? (As in, *really* cheap..?) Thanks! - -- Matt Browne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:25:31 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: DVDs (So far off-topic it's almost on-topic again) On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 05:36 AM, Matt Browne wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good online store for buying North American > (Region 1) DVDs at a cheap price? (As in, *really* cheap..?) Assuming you're looking for new - http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/ http://www.alldirect.com/ And the motherlode for DVD - http://www.dvdtalk.com/ Try the Release List and Price Search. - - Steve __________ It is white." - George Bush, when asked what the White House is like by a student at Morningside Primary School in Hackney, East London. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:49:54 +0000 From: "Spring Cherry" Subject: Thank Aitheism for Feg Well--Feg comes thru, once again. I was browsing in our Popular Library and saw an illustrated book by a guy--Blegved?-- It rang a bell ---where had I heard that name before? - ---Wait - that was the guy Nat raves about. Hmmm Nat, like Nat, like Nat's taste, -- Lets look at this... (Kay peruses first tale of Levianthium, the journey where he suffers great, Orphian trials to resurrect his parents when they go out for dinner.) This is fucking great! I love this. This is fantastic. (End tableau with Kay reading late into night, hubby nagging her to turn off light, Kay wisphering -- just onnnne more, please, just ...) Thank you Nat. Thank you Blegved. Thank you Feg. - -------------------- Brian >Almost back to the urchins. Not only were urchins eggs a good thing for >alchemists but light was very important thing to the medieval >aesthetic. >Check out Eco's Art and Beauty in the Middle Ages, but have a philosophical >dictionary handy. To combine light and alchemy >Woolley's The Queen's >Conjuror is a good read, being a biography of John Dee which includes both >his scientific acheivements as well as an account of his "diversion" into >spiritualism it gives a really good feel of the intellectual >world at that >time when astrology and astronomy / optics and spiritualism hadn't turned >into "real science" and "occult" but all >were threatened by the church. The library dosn't own a book by Eco with that title. Is it an essay? Sounds interesting. As for the rest of what you wrote, what is the emoticon for elated enthusiasm mixed with the sentiment of "you like that stuff too"!?! :-). Yes, I know and find that time fascinating. It actually lasted up to Newton, who, as you probobly know, was also an alchemist. Its part of why I find the 16th, 17th centuries so intiguing. - ----------------------- Does anyone else on this list sometimes have problems keeping all the Brians straight? It seems to be the most common first name on the list. Maybe we should change the name of the list to "Life of Brian" but then the Mikes might want equel time, followed by the Rosses and the Jills . So, Feg it remains. - ------------------------ Hopstetter, Nerdrum has great expertise, dosn't he? Its true there are tricks to raise intensity. One of the easiest with red is putting it on blue--since they make each other wobble(being at different ends of the spectrum.) Or dark green for contraryness. One of my favorite fantesies is to go to art school and learn the craft of oil painting properly, so I am not reduced to the crude effects I now make use of. I am amazed by the sort of skill Nerdrum has. BTW--Barnett Newman is having a big retro at our art museum. Im looking forward to going. P.S. Kincaid must die. Thou I might settle for him painting your lilly-white ass which you could then disply in people's living rooms --hey, it would go with the sofa:-). - --------------------- Matt--you make me glad I ask questions. That was one beautiful answer. - --------------------- Kay, working(sigh) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:53:15 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: Element of light (reflected) I dunno --- I think stained glass could capture that backlit tulip look pretty well. Isn't "that special colour" more that the tulip is an apparent source of light rather than a reflector of light? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:01:11 -0400 From: invader woj Subject: Fwd: Robyn Mouths Off in new book >From: "John Luerssen" >To: woj@fegmania.org >Subject: Robyn Mouths Off in new book >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:50:53 +0000 > >Here's some Hitchcock related news: > >Robyn Hitchcock is featured in several chapters of a new book called >MOUTHING OFF - A Book of Rock & Roll Quotes. With funny and truthful >observations from hundreds of rock, punk, and indie figures, this book was >written with the music fan in mind. > >Here's an excerpt from Robyn: >When everyone else was throwing beer glasses at the stage and putting >safety pins through their noses, all we wanted to do was eat cucumber >sandwiches. - Robyn Hitchcock, on his days with the Soft Boys (2001) > >Compiled by Rolling Stone/Billboard contributor John D. Luerssen and >published by Brooklyn-based record label/publishing house The Telegraph >Company, MOUTHING OFF hits book and record stores in June. Those who can't >wait can purchased early online at major book e-tailers. (Note: it's >cheapest on Amazon) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:55:33 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: REAP Layne Staley, Alice In Chains vocalist. Max _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:02:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: REAP On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Maximilian Lang wrote: > Layne Staley, Alice In Chains vocalist. Was it drug-related? I hope not - but if so, yet another victory for the God of Cliches... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mike O'Connor" Subject: Beat The Geeks music geek comments on Robyn [I'm only on fegmaniax-announce. While woj culls things wonderfully for fegmaniax-announce, he can't know every guilty pleasure I have. And I didn't see it in any of the April digest archives either. So there.] I gotta admit to liking "Beat The Geeks" on Comedy Central. For those who aren't familiar, http://www.jkeith.net/beatthegeeks/ is probably as good a starting point as any. I kinda wondered whether their resident music geek, Andy Zax was into Robyn. I found the answer at: http://cinema.14850.com/0330zax.html 14850: Robyn Hitchcock or Syd Barrett? Zax: Boy, that's impossible, because I'm a huge fan of both. I would say that [Pink Floyd founder and main songwriter] Syd set a template for a certain kind of eccentric English songwriting, and I think Robyn has followed on that path, but he's definitely his own guy with his own preoccupations. And obviously, he's still here and making great records. Syd's on Planet X. [Barrett suffered a nervous breakdown brought on by drugs and manic depression shortly after recording Pink Floyd's first album and retired, replaced by guitarist David Gilmour.] Cool beans. - -Mike (who's still bummed that Robyn didn't swing by the Detroit area on his latest tour) - -- Michael J. O'Connor | WWW: http://dojo.mi.org/~mjo/ | Email: mjo@dojo.mi.org Royal Oak, Michigan | (has my PGP & Geek Code info) | Phone: +1 248 427 4481 =--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--= "Everything that happens makes sense to someone else." -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:53:37 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: DVDs (So far off-topic it's almost on-topic again) > On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 05:36 AM, Matt Browne wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend a good online store for buying North American > > (Region 1) DVDs at a cheap price? (As in, *really* cheap..?) And as has been observed on this list before, the xchange rate on Loonies makes sites like www.absound.ca and others very competitive (i.e. Mulholland Drive is US$18 there). I've ordered from them and their service is fantastic, selection less so. Michael thinking of throwing in 'Eraserhead' tonight ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:22:55 -0400 From: rosso@videotron.ca Subject: Re: DVDs (So far off-topic it's almost on-topic again) On 20 Apr 2002, at 19:53, Michael Wells wrote: > And as has been observed on this list before, the xchange rate on Loonies > makes sites like www.absound.ca and others very competitive (i.e. Mulholland > Drive is US$18 there). Yeah, that's just ducky. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:39:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: REAP Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Maximilian Lang wrote: > > > Layne Staley, Alice In Chains vocalist. > > Was it drug-related? I hope not - but if so, yet another victory for > the God of Cliches... no cause of death has been determined, but his body was found partially decomposed. he's been dead for a while. but i think drugs would probably be a pretty good bet. ===== "This week, the White House says President Bush meant no disrespect when he referred to the Pakistani people as 'Pakis.' But just to be on the safe side, White House staffers have cancelled his trip to Nigeria" -- Tina Fey, Saturday Night Live's "Weekend Update" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #130 ********************************