From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #124 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, April 17 2002 Volume 11 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Hi Randi! [The Great Quail ] Re: to lurk or not to lurk ~ that is the question [invader woj ] Re: bottom line test mp3 [invader woj ] 80s trades? [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: sharon in a jar by the door [gSs ] Re: What's all this got to do with Sharon's reproductive glands? [gSs ] Re: bottom line test mp3 [Steve Talkowski ] The Covers Project ["Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Re: sharon in a jar by the door [Christopher Gross ] REAP: Dan Tanna ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Watch out all you Fresh Young Rockers ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Re: 80s trades? [Miles Goosens ] Re: sharon in a jar ["matt sewell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:14:30 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Hi Randi! Welcome back! I am sorry you could not have come to New York -- it would have been great to finally meet you. And you could have seen Bayard beat up a few more security guards. Happily, - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:52:16 -0400 From: invader woj Subject: Re: to lurk or not to lurk ~ that is the question when we last left our heroes, rand exclaimed: >Hi ... it's Randi ... had a big bunch of trouble that kept me away >from the computer ... but I'm back. hurrah! glad to see you came out of lurkdom finally...welcome back! >What 'souvenirs' are being offered at the shows? i didn't check the merchandise table myself, but i believe the only thing for sale at all shows is the _robyn sings_ collection. anyone else check for sure? also, i believe someone mentioned something about a single cone being up for sale in new york though i didn't see it. >And this new cd ~ 'Robyn sings' ~ 2 disc set of Uncle Bob songs, >is it the same as "Rob, Bob, and Albert" in terms of quality? i can't answer that question directly since i don't have a copy of _rob, bob and albert_, but i can say (1) the albert hall tribute tracks from _robyn sings_ (the second disc) sound like an audience recording to me and are listenable. supposedly, they are from the same source as the "beautiful queen" promo which is a different source from the bootleg. i don't know which source is better (bayard knows, i think). in any case, it is not a complete recording of the tribute show. (2) the material on the first disc of robyn sings is previously unreleased, recorded in the studio and live during 1999 and 2000, so that's incentive to buy the set right there. woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:02:04 -0500 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Chicago Review Setlist posted last night, sorry but comments are non-linear. Got to the Park West early and found Dolph + Becca, Carissa, et al pretty easily. I think it was the balloons and crayola paint pens which tipped me off. We settled into small booths about 25ft from center stage. Mike Viola's opening set got a deserved ear from the crowd, his slower stuff especially was quite strong I thought. Robyn came on wearing a crazed lilac shirt patterned with white daisies and bright red birds. Hair seemed much grayer than I remember from the last couple of tours, but then we're all getting older. What really struck me was how good his voice was, clear and high on "Serpent," then going full and low on "Not Dark Yet." I think the setting - an amp, two guitars, two mikes and him - really let the subtleties shine. As Dolph pointed out, he didn't have to try and shout over the SB's noise. "Insect Mother" was a stunning opener, and he seemed to relish the wordplay on "I Got the Hots." Most of the main set was in the quiet vein, 8 out of the first 14 songs being from the softer side of Robyn - "Linctus House," "Raymond Chandler Evening" (I heard the same lyrics you did, Kay), "Your Feelings are the Last Things to Die," etc. Which was fine, it really suited the mood in the room well, I thought. His guitar technique was spot on as well. He did confirm "Mind is Connected" will be on the Fall SB's record, and played an interesting acousting 'pencil' version of it. "Unprotected Love" was fantastic too, this might have been my favorite of the entire evening. All in all the main set was fantastic, really, and I think it ran about 62min. Encore 1 (in a paisley paramecium shirt) was more upbeat on the acoustic, and we got "Veins of the Queen" preceeded by the 'pyramid of Royals' bit with the death of the Queen Mother tossed in. "One Long Pair of Eyes" and "Devil Mask" followed. Encore 2 capped the night with "She Doesn't Exist" (on elec) and "Visions of Johanna," note perfect each one. A quick fegbite after (yes, we took a picture Nick) and off home. Someone earlier commented onlist that it felt like he had freedom in the setlist due to not having an album to push, and that is exactly right I thought. We got two Dylan songs, and he himself described "Robyn Sings" as a vanity project (drawing a typically Robynesque parallel with God and Bryan Ferry)...but there didn't seem to be any pressure to perform more. Though it's a different animal entirely from the '99 tour, I'd have to say I liked this one even more. There were 4 cones for sale $20 each last night, woulda coulda shoulda but didn't buy one. Other than that, CD's only it seemed. And lastly, my recording seems to have come out quite well, apart from the usual couple of bumps when starting up (he rather dashed on stage as the lights went down). I've called in some expert mastering help for this one, as I'd like to make it available as a tree to the feglist if others are interested. I've certainly gotten enough from the fegserver while it lasted and from other tapers that at least I can finally give something back. I'll make a formal announcement when they're ready to go - a couple of weeks at least - but if you're interested in being a branch you can email me anytime. Michael "one long pair of thighs" Wells mwells@imageworksmfg.com braneout@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:31:10 -0400 From: invader woj Subject: Re: bottom line test mp3 when we last left our heroes, mike hooker exclaimed: > i made a test mp3 of cuts from my bottom line recordings. its 6 song >snippits, 12 segments, 2 segments per song( duh). i used a snippet from the >final version of my boot, along with one from one with less work on the >guitar segments, for each song. when you listen, keep in mind on the " >quieter version" the peaks are as high as can be allowed with out clipping, >while on the full blown version, the peaks are even less than they could be, >to make it a fairer test. i didnt even bother with anything from the orig >master. the variation between voice, guitar, and applause is much greater >than even the lesser of the two versions ive done. its so great that while >it makes a awesome place to start from, its a lousy listening experience, >constantly fiddling with the volume, or straining to hear with out missing >anything. interested parties can download it at . direct any comments to mike (mhooker@optonline.net). woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:55:05 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: 80s trades? I'm still looking for out of print Cds by Bongos, Doctors Children, Lucy Show and others... I've got some cool stuff to trade. Julian Cope Skellington(actually the worst CD ever, but someone might enjoy it...), Paul Weller Live Wood, Aztec Camera Knife... Anyone interested in trading? I'm also looking for select songs by Wire Train, The Connells, The Alarm, Dead or Alive... Hey man, I'm burning some 80s cds of my old favorites, and I've got to find them!! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:54:20 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: sharon in a jar by the door On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, noe shalev wrote: > I'm not, but I think I'm entitled to the same treatment. I'm not sopurter of > sharon. way on the other side, but our friend here denyes my right to live > peacfully in my state. The isreali's are denying themselves the right to live peacefully. But, that does not mean that I wish to see the destruction of Isreal completely. The last statement in my first note was blunt but it did not call for the elimination of Isreal and the Jews. It said - 'I believe the destruction of isreal, as we know it today, is essential for world order'. But that doesn't mean I think a single person should be killed and it could be done without another single life being lost on either side. You have as much right to a home and good neighbors as anyone else who can live among or beside less fortunate people and let them live like people instead of cattle and I hope you see peace. But every life is a case study for at least something somewhere and no matter how small or insiginificant it might seem to someone, everyone has as much right to live as anyone else, with few exceptions. But being from Isreal or Palestine or St. Petersburg or even Japan for instance has nothing to do with it. But especially not an existance or right to exist principle based on religion or folklore. All religion is folklore or at least soon to be, right after it is replaced by the latest new age mystisism. Why does it seem like we got Pat Buchanans popping out of the woods along with Calvinisticisms screaming of sovereignty and recognition and their desire for the return to near feudal kingdoms and chivalry. I am an American, determined far less by choice than anything else. Yet it was not fate or predestination or any like that. It was chance. Fate or destiny or any of the other fictional catalysts used by religious zealots to guide their sheep is ludicrous and must be understood for what it is first. Your right to have a state or something that makes you feel at home cannot be supported by your religion and anyone else's. If we use Isreal as an example, why don't we restore all lost kingdoms? > the problem is not in finding solution, the problem is that extreamist on > both sides getting their way in avoidinig peave and imposing this state of > caus upon the region. The problem is the lackadaisical or entirely absent amount of resistance these extremists receive from the moderates right beside them. Anyone can be driven mad. Keep people under certain conditions for enough time and they can be bent into any shape. Isreal has bent themselves and the Palestinians to such a degree that you may never have a chance to bend them or yourselves back and unless you start trying, the support you have received from the rest of the world will soon wither to nothing and you will implode upon yourselves while the gods laugh. People should start accepting the god(s) as their only true enemy. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:57:06 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: What's all this got to do with Sharon's reproductive glands? nothing, I just think a jar by the door is the best place for them. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:11:14 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: sharon in a jar by the door I have to say I couldn't really follow what you're saying for the most part there... I don't see what you're calling for - are you saying the Israelis have a right to a state or not? As the Israelis say themselves "Ein Lee Eretz Acheret" (I don't have any other land (of course neither do the Palestinians, in fact they don't even have the land they live in)). Also, I'd just point out that believing that you live where you live because of chance, and indeed believing that all religious systems are mistaken, is a *faith* based *belief*. Cheers Matt >From: gSs >Reply-To: gSs >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Re: sharon in a jar by the door >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:54:20 -0500 (CDT) > >On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, noe shalev wrote: > > I'm not, but I think I'm entitled to the same treatment. I'm not sopurter of > > sharon. way on the other side, but our friend here denyes my right to live > > peacfully in my state. > >The isreali's are denying themselves the right to live peacefully. But, >that does not mean that I wish to see the destruction of Isreal >completely. The last statement in my first note was blunt but it did not >call for the elimination of Isreal and the Jews. It said - 'I believe the >destruction of isreal, as we know it today, is essential for world order'. >But that doesn't mean I think a single person should be killed and it >could be done without another single life being lost on either side. You >have as much right to a home and good neighbors as anyone else who can >live among or beside less fortunate people and let them live like people >instead of cattle and I hope you see peace. But every life is a case study >for at least something somewhere and no matter how small or insiginificant >it might seem to someone, everyone has as much right to live as anyone >else, with few exceptions. But being from Isreal or Palestine or St. >Petersburg or even Japan for instance has nothing to do with it. But >especially not an existance or right to exist principle based on religion >or folklore. All religion is folklore or at least soon to be, right after >it is replaced by the latest new age mystisism. Why does it seem like we >got Pat Buchanans popping out of the woods along with Calvinisticisms >screaming of sovereignty and recognition and their desire for the return >to near feudal kingdoms and chivalry. I am an American, determined far >less by choice than anything else. Yet it was not fate or predestination >or any like that. It was chance. Fate or destiny or any of the other >fictional catalysts used by religious zealots to guide their sheep is >ludicrous and must be understood for what it is first. Your right to have >a state or something that makes you feel at home cannot be supported by >your religion and anyone else's. If we use Isreal as an example, why don't >we restore all lost kingdoms? > > > the problem is not in finding solution, the problem is that extreamist on > > both sides getting their way in avoidinig peave and imposing this state of > > caus upon the region. > >The problem is the lackadaisical or entirely absent amount of resistance >these extremists receive from the moderates right beside them. Anyone can >be driven mad. Keep people under certain conditions for enough time and >they can be bent into any shape. Isreal has bent themselves and the >Palestinians to such a degree that you may never have a chance to bend >them or yourselves back and unless you start trying, the support you have >received from the rest of the world will soon wither to nothing and you >will implode upon yourselves while the gods laugh. People should start >accepting the god(s) as their only true enemy. > >gSs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:20:09 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: bottom line test mp3 Great job Mike! My ears definitely prefer the first versions of each test, where the guitar and harmonica are more prominent and equal with his voice. To me, the 2nd versions sounded like Robyn was in some weird echo chamber w/o the echo. My vote is for the first versions, with perhaps the guitar levels notched down just a tad, say 5-10% - -Steve on 4/17/02 10:31 AM, invader woj at woj@smoe.org wrote: > when we last left our heroes, mike hooker exclaimed: > >> i made a test mp3 of cuts from my bottom line recordings. its 6 song >> snippits, 12 segments, 2 segments per song( duh). i used a snippet from the >> final version of my boot, along with one from one with less work on the >> guitar segments, for each song. when you listen, keep in mind on the " >> quieter version" the peaks are as high as can be allowed with out clipping, >> while on the full blown version, the peaks are even less than they could be, >> to make it a fairer test. i didnt even bother with anything from the orig >> master. the variation between voice, guitar, and applause is much greater >> than even the lesser of the two versions ive done. its so great that while >> it makes a awesome place to start from, its a lousy listening experience, >> constantly fiddling with the volume, or straining to hear with out missing >> anything. > > interested parties can download it at http://www.smoe.org/woj/test_full.mp3 >. direct any comments to mike > (mhooker@optonline.net). > > woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:31:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: The Covers Project So, who's got a few days to enter all of Robyn's covers into this website? "Welcome to The Covers Project. We're building a database of cover songs (songs performed by an artist other than the original performer) with the intention of creating cover "chains." A cover chain is a set of songs in which each song is a cover of a song by the band who covered the preceding song..." Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:38:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: sharon in a jar by the door On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, gSs wrote: > Petersburg or even Japan for instance has nothing to do with it. But > especially not an existance or right to exist principle based on religion > or folklore. All religion is folklore or at least soon to be, right after > it is replaced by the latest new age mystisism. [snip] > Your right to have > a state or something that makes you feel at home cannot be supported by > your religion and anyone else's. If I understand you correctly, you're arguing that the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the Israelis' claim to that land is based on religion. Now, I share your skeptical view of religion. However, the problem with your argument is that the Israelis are not just a bunch of folks who happen to share a religion, like a similar number of Lutherans or Neopagans. The Jews are a people, a nation, albeit one which happens to have a strong religious identity (they aren't unique in this -- look at Tibet, for instance). The Israelis' claim to their territory as the Jewish homeland is based on *nationality*, not religion. They claim it the same way the Dutch claim the Netherlands and the Koreans claim Korea. Some of the more religiously hardcore Israelis also believe God granted them that land, but this religious issue is in *addition* to the national issue. Ignore the religion, and the nationalist case for Israel remains. > If we use Isreal as an example, why don't > we restore all lost kingdoms? Well, what are your criteria for the legitimacy of states? If there shouldn't be a state of Israel, why should there be, for example, a state of Palestine? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:55:59 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: belated concert review OK, so I can't write a big review of a Robyn show, so here's a review of the Shins instead... Let's get this out of the way first. The Shins sold a song, "New Slang," to McDonald's. The resulting ad was apparently aired during the Olympics. They got $20,000 for it. I have no desire to debate the ethics of such behavior, though I know some people have strong opinions about it. For my part, I will only say that, though I'm not happy about musicians selling their songs to corporate entities, at least they get some money and free publicity out of it, which is a good thing. Perhaps due to the McDonald's gambit, Berbati's was pretty packed. My friend Alex and I arrived just before the first opening act, the Busy Signals. Now, I try to give bands a fair chance. But these guys were just plain bad. A dopey bearded guy singing clumsily and off-key to the accompaniment of canned beats, rinky-dink keyboards and equally off-key backing vocals - it wasn't pretty. The nervous, rambling between-songs commentary wasn't much fun either. Alex and I admired the fact that the singer was fat (such a rare thing in la indie rawk), but that was as far as it went. Oh, and I suppose if I were higher on the Kinsey scale, I would have been pleased by the bassist's bra-lessness. But sorry, no. I went out and took a walk during the remainder of their set. I returned a little while later, and was talking to my dippy former bandmate Jeannine when I thought I saw my current musical hero Sam Coomes walk by, cranky-looking as always in a white t-shirt. After that, I kept looking around to see if I could spot him again, but Berbati's seemed filled with cranky-looking guys in white t-shirts, and I was forced to admit that it probably hadn't been him. The Fruit Bats were up next, and had the misfortune to be an acoustic band - a singer with an acoustic guitar, a girl who played keyboards and mandolin, and a drummer who used brushes. Alas for the Fruit Bats. Berbati's sports the noisiest crowds in the Pacific Northwest, and the poor band was almost inaudible. I got closer to the stage so I could hear better, and liked what I heard - pretty, gentle sort of stuff with a country-ish tinge - but the crowd chatter was so bloody distracting that paying attention to them was a fruitless (no pun intended) task. The singer looked vaguely distressed through the whole set, and I can't really blame him. As I've mentioned before, two of the Shins live in Portland now - the astonishingly Jewish-looking drummer (who even appeared to have side-curls, though that may just have been how his hair grew), and James Mercer, the squawky-voiced lead singer, who looks like a rumpled Jewish physics professor, such as Carl Sagan or one of the profs I used to work for at U of Michigan. He played a Silvertone guitar, only the second I've ever seen on stage. The other Shins do not look Jewish. The bassist stood way back in the shadows at the side of the stage. He looked like a potato. The keyboardist was totally adorable - not because he was especially good-looking, but because he was grinning and jumping around and obviously having a great time. He was fun to watch. He wore a T-shirt that said "The Photons-R-Us." A reviewer in "The Big Takeover," at a loss to describe the Shins' music, called them "a melodic, song-based band with no discernible influences." Indeed. They're one of those bands who are good but not brilliant overall, but who have a number of utterly brilliant individual songs, all of which they played at the show. They rock out harder live than they do on record, as many bands do. I was particularly happy to hear "One By One All Day" and "The Celibate Life," both of which use a double-time drum beat which I enjoy. They played some songs by their previous incarnation, Flake - excellent stuff, a little REM-like - and their previous single, "Know Your Onion" (not a companion piece to Cibo Matto's "Know Your Chicken"). And of course, they played "New Slang." As I mentioned, the singer's voice is squawky to the point of being incomprehensible, so I was astonished to hear the whole audience singing along - they knew all the words. Did they watch the McDonald's commercial that many times? The band looked a little nonplussed by this reaction. I was nonplussed, too. At any rate, nobody threw burgers at the stage as Alex predicted, which was somewhat disappointing. That was all that happened at the show, except that on the way home Alex kept insisting that Quasi were "boring," so I was forced to beat the shit out of him and dump him by the side of the road. _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:07:51 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: REAP: Dan Tanna Don't know if anyone logged this one yet: LOS ANGELES -- Actor Robert Urich, who starred in television detective series Vega$ and Spenser: For Hire, died early on Tuesday after a long battle with cancer, his spokeswoman said. http://bworld.net/current/A&L/artstory3.html ________________________________ Ferris Scott Thomas Lead Programmer The Production Group McGraw-Hill Education 860.409.2612 ferris_thomas@mcgraw-hill.com (email) Never be afraid to try something new. Remember: amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:10:45 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: Watch out all you Fresh Young Rockers "The flashy Roth, dressed in black nylon trousers and shirt, was accompanied by three bodyguards, three masked catwomen in fluorescent unitards and a beer-drinking midget sporting an Andy Warhol wig. Hagar turned up solo in jeans and T-shirt." http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/16/roth.hagar.tour.reut/index.html ________________________________ Ferris Scott Thomas Lead Programmer The Production Group McGraw-Hill Education 860.409.2612 ferris_thomas@mcgraw-hill.com (email) Never be afraid to try something new. Remember: amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:11:24 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: sharon in a jar On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, matt sewell wrote: > I don't see what you're calling for - are you saying the Israelis have a > right to a state or not? As the Israelis say themselves "Ein Lee Eretz > Acheret" (I don't have any other land (of course neither do the > Palestinians, in fact they don't even have the land they live in)). Isn't that like stealing from the poor to feed the poor? It is a shame so many Jews had to become Isreali's. While I am no longer a big supporter of patriotism as it relates to sovreighnty and borders and I do not support a Jewish state based on Judaism, and that applies to a muslim state, a christian state etc..., the Isreali engine is turning and stopping it completly would cause far more suffering and grief than I think is acceptable. But it definately needs to be throttled back and if the Isreali's don't do it themselves, the rest of us will. > Also, I'd just point out that believing that you live where you live > because of chance, and indeed believing that all religious systems are > mistaken, is a *faith* based *belief*. I have faith in nothing, except possibly life. So I am essentially faithless and life in all it's wonder and misery can continue just as well with or without me. I have no beliefs based on religion or any folkloric ideal of spiritism, supreme being(s), savioral sacrifice, divinty, trinity, life after death, even reincarnation unfortunately or anything else involving religion, organized or otherwise. Religion is used solely to help form the masses more effectively and efficiently into a working mechanism. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:28:46 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: 80s trades? At 10:55 AM 4/17/2002 -0400, BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: >I'm still looking for out of print Cds by Bongos, Doctors Children, Lucy Show >and others... I've got some cool stuff to trade. Julian Cope >Skellington(actually the worst CD ever, but someone might enjoy it...), !!! SKELLINGTON seems pretty darn far from the worst CD ever. In fact, I'd say it's pretty essential to understanding where Cope's '90s material came from, and I'd even take it over the mightily overrated PEGGY SUICIDE. I've owned the vinyl, the original CD (now stolen), and the expanded SKELLINGTON CHRONICLES (available through Cope's site, ). later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:26:33 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: sharon in a jar Believing that both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a right to a state isn't stealing from the poor to give to the poor. I'm not sure how you can construe it as such. There's enough land for both states to exist. Genetically, it has recently been proven (much to the fury of both sides) that there are no differences racially between the Israelis and the Palestinians - they're both races (or the same race) that originated in what is now Israel (and should be Israel and Palestine). Also, as I said, not believing that the universe was created by something (god or whatever) is a position of faith. You can't prove that god doesn't exist, so you *believe* she doesn't. Cheers Matt >From: gSs >Reply-To: gSs >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Re: sharon in a jar >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:11:24 -0500 (CDT) > >On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, matt sewell wrote: > > I don't see what you're calling for - are you saying the Israelis have a > > right to a state or not? As the Israelis say themselves "Ein Lee Eretz > > Acheret" (I don't have any other land (of course neither do the > > Palestinians, in fact they don't even have the land they live in)). > >Isn't that like stealing from the poor to feed the poor? It is a shame >so many Jews had to become Isreali's. While I am no longer a big supporter >of patriotism as it relates to sovreighnty and borders and I do >not support a Jewish state based on Judaism, and that applies to a >muslim state, a christian state etc..., the Isreali engine is turning >and stopping it completly would cause far more suffering and grief >than I think is acceptable. But it definately needs to be throttled back >and if the Isreali's don't do it themselves, the rest of us will. > > > Also, I'd just point out that believing that you live where you live > > because of chance, and indeed believing that all religious systems are > > mistaken, is a *faith* based *belief*. > >I have faith in nothing, except possibly life. So I am essentially >faithless and life in all it's wonder and misery can continue just as well >with or without me. I have no beliefs based on religion or any folkloric >ideal of spiritism, supreme being(s), savioral sacrifice, divinty, >trinity, life after death, even reincarnation unfortunately or anything >else involving religion, organized or otherwise. Religion is used solely >to help form the masses more effectively and efficiently into a working >mechanism. > >gSs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #124 ********************************