From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #89 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, March 16 2002 Volume 11 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Apple-lications [Ken Weingold ] whitewashing ["Natalie Jane" ] more usability trolling [drew ] Kippled Herrings addendum ["ross taylor" ] Re: Apple-lications [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Apple-lications [glen uber ] Re: Recording the tour/trades. [badly drawn woj ] Re: Apple-lications [Ken Weingold ] Glass Flesh II [overbury@cn.ca] Re: Recording the tour/trades. ["mel" ] Re: Apple-lications [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: wow [Tom Clark ] Re: Apple-lications ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Apple-lications [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Apple-lications ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Creation? Science? [steve ] Re: whitewashing [steve ] and then poof, he's back ["Mike Runion" ] Value of a Cone [Mike Wheeler ] Re: Value of a Cone [Sebastian Hagedorn ] fuh-neh-tikss [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] iBong (NR) [steve ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:16:20 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Apple-lications On Fri, Mar 15, 2002, steve wrote: > On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 02:03 AM, drew wrote: > > >OmniWeb is a steaming pile > > Damn, that's harsh! I use OmniWeb 99% of the time, because of it's > beautiful text rendering. If it won't do something I fire up IE. The > OmniWeb guys (just a handful, I think) release "sneaky peek" updates > every few days. I like OW, and do get the sneaky peeks, but I still can't use it regularly, and always revert back to IE. The main problem that I see lately is Javascript support. The three browsers I have on my OS X machine are IE, OmniWeb, and Mozilla. Mozilla still has no Java support, at least as of v0.98. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0800 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: whitewashing >I was reading it to my pre-school >daughter & started remembering the rest of the >story & thinking, oh-oh, I'm gonna have to start >editing on the fly again (What - Me - Censor ?), Yes, I remember that. Although the "n-word" set off an immediate reaction in my youthful heart, I wasn't yet aware of negative stereotypes and I don't recall being offended by this. I still love Mary Poppins despite any political incorrectness, and I loathe, loathe, loathe Di$ney for ruining her image. Re. censoring for kids, when I was in fourth grade, my teacher read "Huckleberry Finn" to us, which I liked very much. Imagine my surprise when I read it myself in high school, and found that my teacher had said "slave" instead of "nigger" throughout the book. I'm not sure what to make of this: the guy would have gotten his ass kicked by parents if he hadn't censored, but on the other hand - well, censorship is censorship. Perhaps he shouldn't have read us the book at all. But then we wouldn't have been exposed to great literature at an early age. What to do, what to do... Anyway, I had a dream last night that I was attending a lecture on Pink Floyd's "The Wall" in a big auditorium, and suddenly this huge black and grey lemur with orange eyes turned up and started running around. (In the dream, I called it a kinkajou, but that's a different kind of prosimian.) I explained to the guy next to me that the animal was a primate. Eventually it ran away. In the morning, I found I had somehow removed my thermal longjohns in my sleep. Hmm. n. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:19:27 -0800 From: drew Subject: more usability trolling > From: Ken Weingold I groused: >> So I'm using Mail, annoyed with >> its arbitrary limitations, but not yet desperate enough to submit >> to pine and the annoyances of mouseless text editing. > > Then maybe one of these GUI mailers is for you. Or maybe you're just > looking at it the wrong way. The only time I need a mouse for email > is for copy/paste, which I can do anywhere. What else do you really > find annoying about mouseless text editing? Sounds like maybe you are > used to a crappy editor, or don't know how to use the one you had > well. For the average human, a mouse is faster than any control-M control-V control-V control-V right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow control-K sort of thing. In this respect I am an average human. I find it much more natural and agreeable to use a gestural device for deleting, cutting, and pasting large blocks of text than a keyboard. I realize that many hard-core command-liners get to the point where the keystrokes either are or feel faster and easier, but I don't even touch-type (at least not in the traditional way), so I don't expect to get to that point anytime soon. I did use mouseless editors for four years in school, so it's not as if I didn't try. > From: "matt sewell" > > I tell you what, I can't wait for the Adolf-mac i-Hitler to come out! > > Does that count as Godwin's law?! > > Please?! Sorry, you're right, I'll shut up now. Well, after this post. > From: steve > > On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 02:03 AM, drew wrote: > >> OmniWeb is a steaming pile > > Damn, that's harsh! I use OmniWeb 99% of the time, because of it's > beautiful text rendering. If it won't do something I fire up IE. The > OmniWeb guys (just a handful, I think) release "sneaky peek" updates > every few days. You might be right -- as with my Texas comment I'm trolling a bit. I've only used it once so far, and when I saw what it did to my beautiful, but apparently unorthodox, layouts, I quit it and decided to pretend it didn't exist. > From: Christopher Gross > > Speaking of web browsers, have any of you tried iCab? I used a beta > version a year or two ago, and liked it very much. However, that > version > expired and I haven't tried the latest one yet. I tried it and thought it was all right -- I might give it another shot soon. The thing is, apart from a problem I'm having with security certificates, I really do like the way IE does things, and I'm inclined to design for it because that's what most people will use to view my pages. But of course it is a product of the devil, which saddens me. Okay, yes, now I will shut up about Mac software. For the moment. Drew - -- http://www.stormgreen.com/~drew/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:16:35 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: Kippled Herrings addendum I meant to include this link about S. Ray at the Freer (specific info)-- www.asia.si.edu/programs/satyajit.htm Happy Friday! Ross Taylor everybody, gather round loosen up your suspenders, hunker down on the ground I'm a cracker you are too don't I take good care of you Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Apple-lications - -- Ken Weingold is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 15. Mdrz 2002 12:16 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: Apple-lications: | Mozilla still has no Java | support, at least as of v0.98. It does, but it's not pre-installed. You have to install a small plug-in ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Winter is coming." (George R. R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire) [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:09 -0800 From: glen uber Subject: Re: Apple-lications On Friday, March 15, 2002 9:16 AM, Ken Weingold wrote: >I like OW, and do get the sneaky peeks, but I still can't use it >regularly, and always revert back to IE. The main problem that I see >lately is Javascript support. The three browsers I have on my OS X >machine are IE, OmniWeb, and Mozilla. I love OmniWeb, though I agree it doesn't always work with all pages. For instance, I've noticed it has minor problems with some CSS tags. However, I continue to use their browser whenever possible because I like the company's ethics and philosophies and they make products that look great. I know that one day, after a few of the kinks are worked out, OW will be the only browser on my system. I use IE only to view pages I've created to make sure that they render properly for the other 80% of the world. While I once thought IE 5 was a wonderful piece of software, I have adopted an anti-M$ stance lately and don't use any of Redmond, Inc's software on my Macs. I do have IE and Office installed on one of the iMac workstations in the office and on my Windows machine, of course. My main workhorse browser on the Mac is Mozilla (version 0.99 was just released this week). I think it's a beautiful piece of work and I'm glad to see Netscape/Mozilla headed in the right direction after the debacle that was Netscape 4.7x. I keep Nutscrape 4.7 on my system so I can log into iTools while I'm working under OS 9. For some reason, Apple still won't offer iTools support for NS 6+ or Mozilla. I have iCab installed mainly to check the integrity of the code on my own pages. Some of the pages I frequent, most notably ESPN.com, don't render properly in iCab so I can't use it for power browsing. I'm also more than a little miffed that it doesn't yet support XHTML tags, but I'm sure it will soon. Again, I continue to use it because I prefer to support the small, Mac-only developers whenever possible. >Mozilla still has no Java support, at least as of v0.98. I couldn't care less for Java frankly. I think it's a useless technology that uses way too much bandwidth and bogs down the Internet. Maybe I just haven't seen a decent use for it. - -- Cheers! - -g- "Work is the curse of the drinking class." - --Oscar Wilde +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ glen uber blint at mac dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:46 -0500 From: badly drawn woj Subject: Re: Recording the tour/trades. when we last left our heroes, Mike Swedene exclaimed: >is there any way WOJ can contact robyn or his peoples >and see if we can get a hook up to the soundboard at >any or all shows if we supply equipment? bayardo is more qualified to make that request than me. especially since he's done it in the past. even so, i don't know if we'd be able to get a soundboard feed at the bottom line -- they're pretty stingy about that, even with artist approval. taping that show, of course, will not be a problem as the peppers only hassle tapers if they're obvious and don't have artist permission. woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:50:07 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: Apple-lications On Fri, Mar 15, 2002, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > -- Ken Weingold is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, > 15. Mdrz 2002 12:16 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: Apple-lications: > > | Mozilla still has no Java > | support, at least as of v0.98. > > It does, but it's not pre-installed. You have to install a small plug-in ... For Mac OS X? - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:52:09 -0500 From: overbury@cn.ca Subject: Glass Flesh II Hi kids! As some of you may have begun to realise, I'm no longer subbed to the list. I intend to get broadband soon, and when I do I'll hang out with you people again. I do read digests from time to time via www.smoe.org, and I saw what Drew and Quail said about my GFII contribution. Thanks guys; I'm really glad to hear you enjoyed it! There are plenty of great tracks on GFII. I spent hundreds of hours listening to them, because I was involved in noise reduction and pre-mastering. You'd think I would be fed up of these songs by now, but I still love to listen to this stuff. One of my favourites is Aquarium; it sounds so lonely. Check out the review on: http://www.negcap.com/news/recent.html How did that guy know I used my spare guitar? - --- RossO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:25:42 -0000 From: "mel" Subject: Re: Recording the tour/trades. that covers taping but what about cameras? > even so, i don't know if we'd be able to get a soundboard feed at the > bottom line -- they're pretty stingy about that, even with artist approval. > taping that show, of course, will not be a problem as the peppers only > hassle tapers if they're obvious and don't have artist permission. > > woj > - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:59:10 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Apple-lications - -- Ken Weingold is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 15. Mdrz 2002 14:50 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: Apple-lications: | On Fri, Mar 15, 2002, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: |> -- Ken Weingold is rumored to have mumbled on |> Freitag, 15. Mdrz 2002 12:16 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: Apple-lications: |> |> | Mozilla still has no Java |> | support, at least as of v0.98. |> |> It does, but it's not pre-installed. You have to install a small plug-in |> ... | | For Mac OS X? Yes. You can find it here: Cheers, Sebastian - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Winter is coming." (George R. R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire) [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:52:36 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: wow on 3/14/02 6:13 PM, Jill Brand at jlbrand@bu.edu wrote: > Tom wrote: Techno-fegs might be interested to hear that I recently was > able to NFS export my iPod through my PowerBook and then mount it on my > Linux box where I used xmms to listen. > > This sounds amazing. Does it involve Wesson oil at all? Of course not. Nothing but the purest organic almond oil will ever touch my iPod! I think those of you with iPods know exactly what I'm talking about. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:23:52 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Apple-lications glen uber wrote: > > I couldn't care less for Java frankly. > I think it's a useless technology that uses way too much > bandwidth and bogs down the Internet. > Maybe I just haven't seen a decent use for it. http://www.lab6.com/sfcave.html which, incidentally, has the same concept and control method as something I wrote in BCPL and Z80 assembly language back in 1985. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:30:57 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Apple-lications - -- "Stewart C. Russell" is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 15. Mdrz 2002 20:23 Uhr +0000 regarding Re: Apple-lications: | glen uber wrote: |> |> I couldn't care less for Java frankly. |> I think it's a useless technology that uses way too much |> bandwidth and bogs down the Internet. |> Maybe I just haven't seen a decent use for it. | | http://www.lab6.com/sfcave.html That's cool! | which, incidentally, has the same concept and control method as | something I wrote in BCPL and Z80 assembly language back in 1985. I suppose that's even cooler, but although one of my initial computing experiences was on Apple IIs with Z80 boards, I never learned assembly and I don't have the slightest idea what BCPL is... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Winter is coming." (George R. R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire) [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:38:22 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Apple-lications Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > That's cool! it's a great way of wearing out mice. Almost as good as Crystal Quest. > I don't have the slightest idea what BCPL is... you don't want to. Forerunner of C. Kind of an integrated language and operating system. Weird, but charming. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:30 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Creation? Science? On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 04:05 AM, Michael R Godwin wrote: > http://www.channel4.com/news/cgi- > bin/search.cgi?link=http://www.channel4.com/news/home/20020314/Story03.htm > > Aaaaargh! Welcome to the USA. - - Steve __________ President Bush met privately with top officials from the Salvation Army in May to discuss his "faith-based" initiative while the White House was reviewing a request from the charity for a regulation protecting it from local workplace nondiscrimination laws based on sexual orientation. - Dana Milbank, Washington Post ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:50:03 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: whitewashing On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 12:10 PM, Natalie Jane wrote: > I still love Mary Poppins despite any political incorrectness, and I > loathe, loathe, loathe Di$ney for ruining her image. Not to mention Pooh, but take a look at this - www.disney.com/stitch - - Steve __________ Our previous president studied at Oxford. This one was given a sightseeing tour of London and said it was ''diverse and clean.'' The Times also said Bush gave a ''pep talk'' to children about the advantages of reading over television. The children did not ask him to name the last book he had read. Just good manners, I guess. - Roger Ebert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:55:54 -0500 From: "Mike Runion" Subject: and then poof, he's back Hello all, After a much too lengthy absence, I've finally decided to resubscribe...to the digest. Whew, it's good to be back. I'd like to point everyone to the Virtual Cone Museum, which has just been updated with several new (old) items of interest, including twirling images of some Soft Boys-era cones, including Stewart Russell's "Scottish Cone", and Brian Nupp's stunning "Ambi-Cone". Also, a collection of Chicago cones. It's interesting to note that Robyn has taken to writing "Caution: Will Fade If Fondled" on the cones these days. Hmmm. http://home.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/cones.htm Anyway, it's good to be back. Hey, and woj, I've dug up a slew of shots of your cone buried on my old harddrive. Could you email me the gig/date info? See ya, Mike (curator of the VCM, for those who don't know) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:39:45 -0800 From: Mike Wheeler Subject: Value of a Cone Hello, I am new to the list, but have been a Robyn Hitchcock fan for about six years. I bought a Robyn Hitchcock cone during his 1997 tour. In November my house burned down and the cone was destroyed. Now I need to tell the insurance company how much the cone (and everything else I owned) was worth. How do you assign value to a one-of-a-kind object? How do you assign value if no one who owns one is willing to sell it? How much is a Robyn Hitchcock cone worth? I don't suppose anyone reading this wants to sell their cone.... Thanks for any advice you can offer. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:28:07 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Value of a Cone - -- Mike Wheeler is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 15. Mdrz 2002 22:39 Uhr -0800 regarding Value of a Cone: | Hello, I am new to the list, but have been a Robyn Hitchcock fan for | about six years. Welcome! | I bought a Robyn Hitchcock cone during his 1997 tour. In November my | house burned down and the cone was destroyed. | | Now I need to tell the insurance company how much the cone (and | everything else I owned) was worth. | | How do you assign value to a one-of-a-kind object? How do you assign | value if no one who owns one is willing to sell it? | | How much is a Robyn Hitchcock cone worth? I don't suppose anyone reading | this wants to sell their cone.... Actually Stewart is selling his on eBay. Sorry, but I don't have the URL handy. Starting price was 10 # if I remember correctly... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Winter is coming." (George R. R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:33:52 +0000 (GMT) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: fuh-neh-tikss Ross wrote Of course Orwell, as usual, was right: the Cockneys are lamer than the Indians, in part because he goes to all the trouble of showing their accent which he doesn't do for the Indians. It's like when you see Stephan Foster lyrics written out, "Oh lawd, da troubl' ah seen," where one social group gets its accent described (how accurately?) & you're supposed to know how the others talk. A linguist would put everybody in phonetics. I bet Stephan Foster spoke differently from modern Americans. In his novel Something Leather Scottish writer, Alisdair Gray, represents middle class English characters' speech in this way. Revenge for all the English writers who almost invariably seem bound to do the same whenever a Scot opens their mouth (or should that be 'mooth') in a book. On another matter, I saw someone recording the 12/12 (no US/UK date debate there...) Notting Hill Arts Club gig. I'd never seen the chap before in my life. You could put an appeal out thru' promoters, Poptones or Acid Ranch, as they now call themselves. Finally, it was very amusing to hear Kimberley Rew imitating Robyn vocally while singing Give It To The Soft Boys during his recent solo set... joe PS There's a very good, very dark, stage version of the Jungle Book currently on at the Battersea Arts Centre for any Londoners listening in. PPS I've just started rehearsing as Sancho Panza. One of my ambitions fulfilled! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:05:39 -0600 From: steve Subject: iBong (NR) http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,50820,00.html - - Steve __________ Break the cursing seal of love, new devil. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #89 *******************************