From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #80 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, March 9 2002 Volume 11 : Number 080 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Evolutionary perception ["Mike Wells" ] Re: 100% triv [Miles Goosens ] Re: Evolutionary perception [gSs ] Hail, hail Estonia ["Natalie Jane" ] Re: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Hail, hail Estonia [Christopher Gross ] RE: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! ["Poole, R. Edward" ] da dumdumdum da dum ["ross taylor" ] Grooving on an Inner Plane [Brian ] RE: Hail, hail Estonia ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: Re; The war... ps [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: da dum da dum da dumdumdum da dum [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Digna] rufus and captain keegan [drew ] The Bottom Line Show. ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Hail, hail Estonia [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] church & state in the USA (no, not the JC Mellencamp song) [Jeffrey with ] Da Da Da, ooops [gSs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:06:37 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Re: Evolutionary perception > Oddly enough, though, there is a common *perception* in the US that > belief in evolution is incompatible with Christianity. This is > patently untrue; only Fundamentalists, some Born-Again Christians, > and Baptist types generally decry evolution; Catholics, Lutherans, > and most established non-Baptists Protestsant denominations are cool > with it. So are most branches of Judaism. See also "Theology for a Scientific Age : Being and Becoming-Natural, Divine and Human (Theology and the Sciences)" by Arthur Peacocke, and any number of classic quotes from The Ninth Configuration. Michael "my God, it's full of donuts" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:29:34 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: 100% triv At 11:37 AM 3/8/2002 +0000, Michael R Godwin wrote: >1 New Presbyter = 1 Old Priest >0 Bishop = 0 King >(Sellars and Yeatman, 1066 and All That) "No bishop, no king." -- the extremely quotable James I later, Miles, who hopes Prince Charles doesn't abdicate, just so we'll have the first King of England with a Stuart name since, well, the Stuarts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:35:14 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Evolutionary perception On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, The Great Quail wrote: > Oddly enough, though, there is a common *perception* in the US that > belief in evolution is incompatible with Christianity. This is > patently untrue; only Fundamentalists, some Born-Again Christians, > and Baptist types generally decry evolution; Catholics, Lutherans, > and most established non-Baptists Protestsant denominations are cool > with it. So are most branches of Judaism. Man, we thought you had been consumed by yer succubus or something. Don't forget the jw's. They are hard on the creation of man thing occuring almost exactly 6000 years ago, but some of them have given over to the fact that the earth is actually much older. I'm still counting on the Phantasm Theory but then I plan on converting the slave planet into one big love satellite full of sex and druggery while keeping the dwarfism transformation thing going just to make it seem creepy. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: Hail, hail Estonia >Years ago a man I knew enlisted in the Peace Corps and ended up in > >Estonia. "Their national pastime is despair," he said. Most of my ancestors are from Estonia. This explains a LOT about me. I still don't like beets, though. n. p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:28:59 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! Eugene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > > MAJOR ORGAN - S/T "Major Organ & The Adding Machine" has been out for a while. It's basically the entire E6 orchestra making noises together. You'll probably know already if you love it or hate it. > JEFF MAGNUM - Live 2001 This isn't the "Live at Jittery Joe's" one, is it? Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell, Kirkintilloch, Scotland - scruss@enterprise.net "...eat the fruit of the clue tree." - Sam Tracy http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:55:06 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Hail, hail Estonia On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody > around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. if it has nothing to do with masturbation then the closest palmer method I can think of that might apply would be the palmer method of handwriting and its emphasis on loop size and its part in the theory of handwriting analysis use in determining things about the writer. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:55:35 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Hail, hail Estonia On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody > around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. Have you considered The Packerhaus Method instead? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:27:40 -0500 From: "Poole, R. Edward" Subject: RE: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! >> JEFF MAGNUM - Live 2001 >This isn't the "Live at Jittery Joe's" one, is it? No, I don't think so -- I have "Jittery Joe's" and, though released in 2001, it was recorded in 1998. ============================================================================This e-mail message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. 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To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to postmaster@dsmo.com Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP http://www.legalinnovators.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:36:21 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: da dumdumdum da dum James-- > 80s-present day sitcoms usually start with a normal premise that gets out > of hand (Home Improvement, for instance, or Frasier), but 60s sitcoms had > premises that were barking before the show even started ("I dream of > Jeannie", "Mr Ed", "My favourite Martian"). I think the flip side is that the 60s shows started from a wacky premise but --similar to the basic conservativism of most porn-- the end result was to bring it back into the fold of tidy, cute normality. (Uncle) Ray Walston saying "I *love* you Mrs. Brown!" after she's been 'endearingly' ditzy. Hogans Heros seemd almost like part of a project to erase the holocaust. On the other hand Buffy (I have seen more than a couple of episodes) starts w/ a cute, fantasy idea about hideous vampires & then heads into a space where it can at least suggest real madness, like Columbine (re. the "delayed" episode). Incidentally I actually saw Werner Klemperer (Klink) in a production of "Master Class," a play about Stalin beating up on musicians, at the Kennedy Center. Klemperer played Prokofiev I think, and he was quite good. He even played piano well. Ross Taylor "I remember - doot doot - I remember - doot doot - they had a swimming pool" - THe Mothers Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:10:15 -0500 From: Brian Subject: Grooving on an Inner Plane Anyfeg know the chords to the song "Grooving on an Inner Plane?" Thanks in advance since I will be in Forest City, Arkanas till Monday (if I don't die of boredom 1st). Feggly, Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:30:15 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Hail, hail Estonia On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody > around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. The Palmer Method, it's sounds a bit like Twin Peaks to me, as in Laura Palmer. Any Twin Peaks fan out in feggy land? The DVD set of the first season is out and is well worth picking up. The only bummer is that the pilot isn't included, so you have to buy the DVD pilot (made in China) seperate and the quality of the picture and sound isn't as good and the extras are nothing to write home about. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: Hail, hail Estonia On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody > around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. This wouldn't have anything to do with Carl Palmer, would it? +brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:01:40 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: RE: Re; The war... ps >James: > >> I just re-read what I sent and noticed that I missed out one important >> thing: this in no way implies that I don't value your opinion >> greatly! I >> value the opinions on all fegs on a wide variety of matters. > >Sorry, I shouldn't have brought it to a personal level. And you have >always created an impression of someone who treats others' opinions with >respect. thanks, I try :) >What I found frustrating is that "religion as an arbiter of >social behavior" doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that is best >explored statistically, or through the experience, however extensive, of >tourists. I think it's very easy to be distracted by surfaces, because, >IMHO, religion is all about superficiality anyway. true. It's useful to try and get as many views as possible. It's just not always possible to get that many - and even if you can they won't necessarily be representative. The people I know best who would be able to compare NZ and the US are American-born members of the psych department staff - and postdocs, lecturers, and professors are hardly a representative cross section of the US population - all but two are white, there's a far higher Jewish proportion than you'd get in the US (about 30% I'd guess), and as for the average education level... I didn't mean to tread on any toes on the feglist - I usually try to stay fairly neutral in the arguments that go on. Greg's opinions do piss me off sometimes though. But the same is true from time to time with other list-members too, and that fact is no reason for them not to give those opinions. It was a bad day, and I guess Greg just drew the short straw. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:01:54 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: da dum da dum da dumdumdum da dum >I refer, of course, to _Hogan's Heroes_. > >It's worth noting (because I say so - you can note it or not) that that >show starred somebody or other related to a famous classical musician >(Somebody Klemperer)... lessee.. Werner and Otto respectively, IIRC. >> James (can someone please mention Hitler so as to stop all this >> blather?) > >What if I only mention Elvis Hitler? whatever happened to Bing Hitler, the comedian? >As Woody Guthrie sang, "Goodbye Goodbye Goodbye!" I thought that was Peter Cook and Dudley Moore! James PS - apologies to Dick York. Very sad. Seems I did him a disservice. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:51:59 -0800 From: drew Subject: rufus and captain keegan I'm looking forward to seeing Rufus Wainwright tomorrow night at the Fillmore, recent description of his latest album as "Poser" notwithstanding. Said album has begun to grow on me; it may be short on tunes but it's still old-sweater-comfortable to me. In the record store yesterday, looking for something on which to spend the money I don't have, I ended up with two Departure Lounge albums (one's an EP, I think). I've only listened to one (the EP) so far but I'm pretty happy with it; not earth-shattering, but certainly far more interesting and pleasant than I'd expected. (This was the Captain Keegan reference, in case you'd forgotten, as I had until my girlfriend reminded me.) On Robyn-singing-Dylan: Natalie, I was right there with you until a year or two ago and now I too am infected with this odd disease. I still haven't ventured any later in his catalog than Blonde on Blonde but I might eventually. I must confess I still hate the harmonica, though -- in general, not just when Dylan plays it. On religion: James, I get what you're saying about the comparison thing, but I think you have to recognize that the influence of religion in America is pretty complex. On the one hand, yeah, the politicians either vote their beliefs or vote the beliefs of their constituents in a lot of cases. Yeah, we have God references on our money and in our oaths (which I have to say is a pretty toothless oppression, really). But it seems to me that it's increasingly the case, especially in more civilized regions of the US (no protests please, I'm from Alabama, so get in line), that devoted Christians tend to move in their own circles and are regarded as odd. I think the most accurate statement would be that Christian moral values still have a fairly strong presence in the US even if Christian theology does not. As for that Gallup poll, I would like to see some analysis of it from source other than the "Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance," the organization behind http://www.religioustolerance.org/. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:43:45 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: The Bottom Line Show. Just out of curiosity, can I have a show of hands for those going to the shows in NYC? My wife and I are going to both shows, we reserved tickets today. I think the tickets for both of us and possible hotel accommodations may be cheaper than a ticket to a Paul McCartney concert...no, I am not kidding. just curious, Max _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:07:44 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Neutral Milk Hotel alert! Poole, R. Edward wrote: > > No, I don't think so -- I have "Jittery Joe's" and, though released in 2001, > it was recorded in 1998. cool. One fer Canada, though. I think JM's treatment of "I Love How You Love Me", though tinny, is the best Spector cover I've ever heard. - -- Stewart C. Russell, Kirkintilloch, Scotland - scruss@enterprise.net "...eat the fruit of the clue tree." - Sam Tracy http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:01:40 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: da dum da dum da dumdumdum da dum James Dignan wrote: > > whatever happened to Bing Hitler, the comedian? alive and well and appearing under his real name, Craig Ferguson. Not As Funny As He Used To Be. "There's a lot of spooky -isms going around; socialism, spiritualism, George Chisholm..." -- Bing Hitler Live At The Tron > I thought that was Peter Cook and Dudley Moore! As ever, Woody did it first. - -- Stewart C. Russell, Kirkintilloch, Scotland - scruss@enterprise.net "...eat the fruit of the clue tree." - Sam Tracy http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:49:11 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Hail, hail Estonia > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: >> p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody >> around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 01:52 PM, Brian Huddell wrote: > This wouldn't have anything to do with Carl Palmer, would it? http://www.carlpalmer.com/palmer.html - - Steve __________ If anyone has ever benefited from what Bush has called "the bigotry of soft expectations," it's George W. Bush himself. - Mark Crispin Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:33:50 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Hail, hail Estonia On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Natalie Jane wrote: > p.s. I've been thinking of calling my band The Palmer Method. Nobody > around here seems to know what it is. I bet some of you do, though. It's handwriting, no? Of course, *some* might take it to mean something else involving hands...but what can ya do? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism:: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:58:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: church & state in the USA (no, not the JC Mellencamp song) Currently riding high on the best-seller lists in the US is a repugnant screed by Pat Buchanan, preaching that the nation is going to hell because of all the non-white, non-Christian scum we're letting in to breed like horny rats. He then calls for a racial holy war (has he been listening to the White Album on mushrooms too?) Think I'm exaggerating? "If the West expects a long life, it had best recapture the fighting faith of its youth.... The Christianity that conquered the world was not a milquetoast faith, and the custodians of that faith did not believe all religions were equal. One was true; all the rest were false.... Protestant monarchs and Catholic kings alike did not flinch at burning heretics or drawing and quartering them at the Tyburn tree." As I said, this is a best-seller. What were we saying about the minimal influence of religion in the US? (Note well the irony of an Irish Catholic writing such words...how would he have been regarded 125 years ago in the US?) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some see things as they are, and say "Why?" ::Some see things as they could be, and say "Why not?" ::Some see things that aren't there, and say "Huh?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:44:54 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Da Da Da, ooops On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, James Dignan wrote: > Or to put it another way, what do you know of the history of the Bible? > How many of the 'lost' gospels have you read? Do you know of any of the > alternative translations, or any of the passages of the Bible expunged > from the text in the first few centuries of the Christian era? Are you going to ostracise me if I haven't? I have read the book of enoch and gospels of thomas and a couple others, plus of course what I could of the dead sea scrolls and original use word tracking with translation aids and it was about as fulfilling as beowolf. I don't think any of them were actually lost anyway, were they? Just a bunch more 'and so it came upon the sons of Neriah that their father's tribes had done more sin than all of Abraham's daughters combined and now Zion is awash with enemy captives and so finally the king of Babylon can get some fucking rest.' If would be like discovering some long forgotten parts of the beowolf epic. It makes such an insignificant difference that most people don't give it a thought. Please reread the sentence: "The genius of America is the separation of church and state, which minimizes the role of religion as an arbiter of social behavior. In truth, while majorities mention God, few in the western world fight for God." by Dave Faries The scriptures have little to do with social behaviour in the us beyond possibly the golden rule, at least when applied. But then that rule covers just about everything. So that could mean that any one who is kind and considerate and honest etc... is actually living by the word of Jesus Christ as that was one of his main hooks, wasn't it? > no. I mean true fundamentalism. The acceptance of every word of scripture > as being (if you'll pardon the term) the gospel truth. That would be Christian Fundamentalism, not fundamentalism. > This is the time when you think that religion played more of a role in > societal norms than today? Interesting. The rate of teen pregnancies, infidelity and casual drug use is much higher now in the US than it was then, along with lawlessness in general. Which are all some of the most essential things the bible teaches against. > ps - can we stop this? it's no fun, it must be boring the rest of the list, If you want discussion on a particular topic to end, the first thing you should do is stop discussing that topic. gSs ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #80 *******************************