From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #56 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, February 15 2002 Volume 11 : Number 056 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the 80s, Ken the youngster, and meeting Bayard [grutness@surf4nix.com] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #54 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #55 ["Natalie Jane" ] Re: you know what [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Newburyport [Jill Brand ] Cat Stevens and an age thing [Jill Brand ] my first robyn show [Carole Reichstein ] Look out Ashcroft, Hellkitty on your trail! [steve ] The Year of the Cat Stevens [barbara soutar ] Re: The Year of the Cat Stevens [Ken Weingold ] Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines ["matt sewell" ] Half Robyn half Cracker ["Brian Hoare" ] RE: my first robyn show ["Bachman, Michael" ] Islam, music, jihad/crusade [The Great Quail ] Official Announcement; Tales From The Underwater. Total Robyn Content! ["] the night they drove old 9:30 down ["ross taylor" Didn't meet the =b until '98, huh? NEW IDEA FOR A THREAD: When > did everyone meet Bayard? What was he wearing? Did he ever sleep > on your porch, oh sorry, that's probably not a good question.... Oh, it must've been back in '68 or '69. Billy-Bob had just drove his pickup over to Johnson City and there weren't no guessin' what that meant. Mary-Beth Rideau. Anyhows, me 'n Big Joe was headin' down the creek, gonna catch us some supper when we heard this rustlin' comin' from the bushed. Darned if it weren't this strange feller babblin away to himself something crazy. Well I loked at Big Joe and Big Joe looked at me an' we decided that he didn't look good food, and, well, it was food we was after not some kind of fun, so we took pity on this boy an' led him back to the shack. Mamma wasn't none pleased to see him, so we bundled him into the back of Big Joe's old Studebaker (dang but he loved that girl!) and headed down the mountain to Greenville. We figured someone down there would know what to do with him. Anyways, when we gets there it looks like they had the national guard out lookin fer this guy. Five-fingers Catron, they called him. Well we ain't ever wanted to mess with those bastards, specially not since that incident with cousin Beau out Asheville way. So we just dumped the guy behind the general store and hightailed it back the way we came. Jim-Bob James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:55:27 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #54 >Happy V-day to all good Feggies everywhere. May Eros use only his golden >tipped arrows on you, if ever in prison may heart-shaped flowers grow thru >your window and bend the bars apart, and may, in proper Chauceresque manner, >all your birds pleasingly mate together. > >So sing, in proper Pythonesque manner, "Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam >spam etc." > >Kay a moment of joy in the current feg gloom. many thanks Kay, and I wish you the same! James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:19:24 -0800 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #55 >Here, here! John Taylor is still one of my favorite bassists, and >not >just because of his pretty eyes. Not to mention that he's aged very, *very* well - far better than his bloated, overly made-up former bandmates... Re. my first meeting with Bayard, I recall that it was in 1787, in the East End of London. It was past ten o'clock when he staggered into the pub where I was employed as a barmaid. He was reeking of cheap perfume, cloves and cognac. He demanded a glass of metheglyn and I was forc'd to confess that we had none upon the premises. At which point his eyes rolled up in his head and he began to chant in a strange language, unbeknownst to myself and to my employer, Mr. Withnall; it was all in rhyme, strewn with such words as "flesh," "prawns," "Antwoman," and "Honiton Clyst." He then vomited a great quantity of small crustaceans and collapsed across the bar, at which point Mr. Withnall call'd upon a patron to fetch the constable. When Bayard was at last dragged away, entirely insensible, he pointed at me and uttered a single word: "tinfoil." I did not see him again for several centuries, but I became tormented at night with thoughts of a thin silvery substance and ways of shaping it into various forms. As I recall, at the time of this encounter, Bayard was wearing a bag-wig (quite askew and yellow with age), a dark-blue satin jacket, sadly torn, and britches of grey wool. His stockings were red and the buckles on his shoes were undone. gnat "mad dogs and Portlanders go out in the noonday sun" the gnatster _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:54:39 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: you know what >Like it or not, there is a >force waging what they call a "jihad" against the US and numerous other states. I seem to recall Bushbaby referring to what the US was doing as a crusade. Which is pretty much identical to referring to something as a jihad when you think about it. James PS - Eleanore, any reason why your messages seem to be coming through twice? James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: Newburyport Yeah, Ken, that might have been the last time I saw you. I think that was Fall '97. So did anyone besides me see Robyn in 1987? Like November maybe? At the Paradise in Boston? Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:28:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: Cat Stevens and an age thing I really think that age comes into play with Cat Stevens. When Tea for the Tillerman came out, most everyone I knew wore the grooves out (and I still think it is an outstanding album). Peace Train is like Balloon Man or Lola. It was a big hit, but it doesn't represent the best of the artist. I saw Cat Stevens open for Traffic. And I saw REM open for just about everybody back in 1982 or so. And I couldn't wait for them to get off the stage so that Squeeze or Elvis Costello could play some real music. :-() Yes, tastes differ on this list. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:34:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carole Reichstein Subject: my first robyn show September 4th, 1988, Pine Street Theater, Portland Oregon. I was 17 and had to go start my last idiotic year of high school the next day. Oh, the indignities I suffered! How could I even think of going to that zoo when I had just discovered the musical GENIUS of Robyn? I also saw lots of cool Robyn shirts that night, but I didn't have $8 to buy one. I vividly remember a shirt with an eyeball wearing a tophat design. Does anyone remember this? Who has the oldest Robyn shirt?? Carole ps: yes, Karen went to the show too! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:47:36 -0600 From: steve Subject: Look out Ashcroft, Hellkitty on your trail! http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/252856p-2374958c.html - - Steve __________ Shortly after becoming Attorney General, John Ashcroft was headed abroad. An advance team showed up at the American embassy in the Hague to check out the digs, saw cats in residence, and got nervous. They were worried there might be a calico cat. No, they were told, no calicos. Visible relief. Their boss, they explained, believes calico cats are signs of the devil. - Andrew Tobias, 11/20/01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:15:04 -0800 From: barbara soutar Subject: The Year of the Cat Stevens Hi there, Well, I'll tell you what I remember of the Cat Stevens concert. It involved our bearded friend sitting onstage on a chair with his guitar surrounded by bleachers in a university gymnasium or something. He played, we liked it, and at the end a whole lot of people lit up their lighters which I thought was a most original idea, as I was only 16 at the time. I believe he sang all his hits in his warm and friendly voice which I still love. Too bad he joined a religion that forbids music a decade or so ago. Barbara Soutar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:21:43 -0800 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: The Year of the Cat Stevens On Thu, Feb 14, 2002, barbara soutar wrote: > Well, I'll tell you what I remember of the Cat Stevens concert. It > involved our bearded friend sitting onstage on a chair with his guitar > surrounded by bleachers in a university gymnasium or something. He > played, we liked it, and at the end a whole lot of people lit up their > lighters which I thought was a most original idea, as I was only 16 at > the time. I believe he sang all his hits in his warm and friendly voice > which I still love. Too bad he joined a religion that forbids music a > decade or so ago. Actually, that's not true. I watched the Cat Stevens Behind The Music last weekend. Very cool. I was happy, yet really surprised, to see Cat/Yusef himself present day in a lot of it. He said that he thought back then that that was how it was, but was later told by Islamic priests or whatnot that that was only one interpretation. He has played live and done albums since. Of course not like the stuff we know and love, but real music nonetheless. Much like most Christians, I think he just took it all way too literally when he was first learning about it all. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:43:20 +0000 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines gSs wrote: >I didn't say either one of those things in my note but that is what you decided to hear. I was just taking your view to its logical conclusion - or did you mean that the bombing of Afghanistan and then the provision of support to the Northern Alliance was actually to help the Afghans? Also, did you mean that I purposefully misconstrued you? Your patronising tone and lack of clarification makes me think you do... >What was the dire prediction made or broadcast by a member of this group >back in November or December I believe? >Something like: >7.5 million Afghans in the refugee camps and remote villages could starve >or freeze this winter because the US campaign might stop food and blankets >from reaching those who desperately need it. >Or something similar? Yes, *something* like that - 7.5 million Afghans were in danger of starving. Just because they were starving doesn't mean they were in camps... thankfully, the early perception that the camps around Afghanistan would fill to bursting turned out not to be true - of course there were many in the camps in Pakistan and Iran, but they provision of food and food security wasn't so much of a problem. The problem was the people inside Afghanistan in remote areas - of course as soon as the bombing started, that fucked food security - food couldn't get through where it had previously been delivered without (too many) problems. If you think that the installation of a new government has done anything to help this situation, well, food security is diminishing - still there may be some of those "hearts and minds" lunchboxes lying around in all the unexploded ordanance, eh? >When you try to vilify the US >actions in Afghanistan over the last few months you must factor in the >things part of the rest of the world and especially her neighbors have >done to Afghanistan over the last 20 years. Just the number of Afghans >killed by the ex Union of Soviet Socialists Republic is almost unreal. Put >the blame where it belongs, but don't leave anyone out. Well, I agree that Afghanistan (and how about the rest of the third world) has had a raw deal from every country with which it has done business, but how on earth does that justify bombing the crap out of it (once again)? Even if Afghan victims of the US bombing (remember, 1k-20k people) were a tenth of those of the soviets, does that make it right? >Allowing the Taliban to >rule that place is like allowing Texas to be ruled as a nation entirely by >the KKK or the New Black Panthers. These people are the shit that comes >out of shit. Like allowing the US to be ruled illegally by a bunch of oil magnates and arms dealers? Cheers Matt >From: gSs >Reply-To: gSs >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:27:12 -0500 (CDT) > >On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, matt sewell wrote: > > > Hmm... I'd say I was pretty much against the killing of innocents > > regardless of by whom. I don't see what you're saying - do you mean that > > it was Ok for them to be killed (directly or indirectly) by the "allied" > > military as they would sooner or later have been murdered or have starved > > to death anyway? > >I didn't say either one of those things in my note but that is what you >decided to hear. > > > I hate George Bush, his policies and his illegal government of cronies, > > let's get that straight. However, just because I hate these, it does not > > follow that: > > 1. I hate America > > 2. I support anti-american terrorism > > 3. I have more sympathy for (say) Afghans than for (say) Americans who > > have been killed > > 4. I think the Taliban, Soviets, Pashtuns or Al-Queda have any moral high > > ground over anyone > >I thought only conservatives could hate? > > > Furthermore, your assertion that "refugee camps in and around Afghanistan > > were over flowing by millions and millions and millions and millions and > > millions and millions", is, quite simply, not true. > >What was the dire prediction made or broadcast by a member of this group >back in November or December I believe? > >Something like: > >7.5 million Afghans in the refugee camps and remote villages could starve >or freeze this winter because the US campaign might stop food and blankets >from reaching those who desperately need it. > >Or something similar? > >I don't remember hearing a rebuttle from you at this. If I included one or >so more millions than was allowed I apologize, but in fact I may have >included a few less than required. These camps in and around Afghanistan >are probably the worst ever next to the Nazi concentration camps. Millions >and Millions and Millions of people have passed through, been born or died >in these camps during the last 20 years. When you try to vilify the US >actions in Afghanistan over the last few months you must factor in the >things part of the rest of the world and especially her neighbors have >done to Afghanistan over the last 20 years. Just the number of Afghans >killed by the ex Union of Soviet Socialists Republic is almost unreal. Put >the blame where it belongs, but don't leave anyone out. This clean-up is >going to be messy, but what is the alternative? Allowing the Taliban to >rule that place is like allowing Texas to be ruled as a nation entirely by >the KKK or the New Black Panthers. These people are the shit that comes >out of shit. > >gSs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:18:06 +0000 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: The Year of the Cat Stevens I don't think Islam forbids music - it's just the loony fringes... It *is* a shame, though, that Cat Stevens gave up the music industry Cheers Matt >From: barbara soutar >Reply-To: barbara soutar >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: The Year of the Cat Stevens >Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:15:04 - -0800 > >Hi there, > >Well, I'll tell you what I remember of the Cat Stevens concert. It >involved our bearded friend sitting onstage on a chair with his guitar >surrounded by bleachers in a university gymnasium or something. He >played, we liked it, and at the end a whole lot of people lit up their >lighters which I thought was a most original idea, as I was only 16 at >the time. I believe he sang all his hits in his warm and friendly voice >which I still love. Too bad he joined a religion that forbids music a >decade or so ago. > >Barbara Soutar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:27:46 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Half Robyn half Cracker Being very much a post of two halves. Having gone and bought myself a dvd player last month I thought that I'd try to hunt down a copy of storefront hitchcock. I am in the UK (R2 ) but my machine is chipped for multiregion use (or so mr shopman said - and it has played an R1 copy of Pi). I cannot find an R2 copy of SFH listed anywhere. Is there an R2 version? Can the R1 one be gotten from a UK retailer? If I go for R1 sold from a US shop (ideally online ordering) is there a better option than Amazon.com? ISTR this was discussed before but I didn't pay any attention. Has no one else tried the new Cracker album Forever. At least it's newish over here, released Jan 28. I would rate it as a return to form after the lacklustre Gentleman's Blues, if not a brilliant as Kerosene Hat. Having said that there is little here that is new territory for Cracker but there are some fine tunes on it. The better songs on the album are: Guarded by Monkeys. Has an almost Madchester stoney stomp to it and fine imagery "You are so beatiful you should be hid deep in jungle on some forgotten island". Superfan. Big drums and layered/droney/reversed? guitars that suggest Magical Mystery Tour era Beatles or LRP REM. Creepy stalker lyric. Forever. A sort of distilation of essential cracker themes. It even starts with the line "movie stars and magazines". One Fine Day. This one should have closed the album. A little overlong. Has a blue/grey slowly swampy blues thing going on with swirly Hammond sounds which is lit from above by some fine golden guitar. All of the usual misfits and losers are being led to redemption in a promised land. You can almost see the column of vagabonds crawling from the mire. The big boo boo is the final track What You're missing in which, I think, all the musicians on the album get to rap a verse about themselves. Hickman cant rap, Lowery can't rap although the line "that's Cracker with a C not a K nor an umlaut" almost amuses. I've played this album about a dozen times and not once have I made it through this track - I cant believe it gets better. Brian: np Cracker : Forver _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:05:21 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: my first robyn show Carole, My oldest is only 10 years old, it's the 1992 Tour shirt, purple with yellow print, Their Are No Jokes In The Bible Keith on the front with Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians on the back. It's still in great shape! Michael - -----Original Message----- From: Carole Reichstein [mailto:carole@technical.powells.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:35 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: my first robyn show September 4th, 1988, Pine Street Theater, Portland Oregon. I was 17 and had to go start my last idiotic year of high school the next day. Oh, the indignities I suffered! How could I even think of going to that zoo when I had just discovered the musical GENIUS of Robyn? I also saw lots of cool Robyn shirts that night, but I didn't have $8 to buy one. I vividly remember a shirt with an eyeball wearing a tophat design. Does anyone remember this? Who has the oldest Robyn shirt?? Carole ps: yes, Karen went to the show too! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:23:10 +0000 From: "Abydos *" Subject: B = Bayard I first met Bayard when I was giving a party and Marc Allen was playing with his band nearby. It remember it was summer and dark, but I don't remember the year, somewhere in the 90s? Bayard and Doug pulled up in a car when about 30 partiers were standing out in the middle of my street(out of range of trees) while a friend, who was a street entertainer, juggeled fire. As usual, I was in a weird mental place, preoccupied and Im afraid, less than considerate. Which means--I believe it was -my- front porch upon which Bayard slept. Not only that, but I can't rememeber if I ever apologized for it. If I didn't, this is it. If it helps any,it was a tiny rowhouse with no extra bed inside. And I now live in a bigger house, with extra beds if needed. Hangdog Kay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:27:18 -0800 From: The Great Quail Subject: Islam, music, jihad/crusade Matt asks, >I don't think Islam forbids music - it's just the loony fringes... No, it most certainly does not forbid music, and has actually been behind some very beautiful compositions. I for one have been getting into a lot of music lately from Muslim regions -- especially Egypt's diva Oum Khalthoum and Pakistan's Nusrat Ali Khan. James writes, >I seem to recall Bushbaby referring to what the US was doing as a crusade. >Which is pretty much identical to referring to something as a jihad when >you think about it. First of all, Bush (who I still think is an idiot) apologized for the use of "crusade," and it has not appeared the official US policy-vocabulary since. I think that's an important point. But -- with all due respect, James -- you have to look deeper than merely labelling each as "a holy war" in order to understand that they are not at all identical. A look at the original meanings is enlightening. "Crusade" meant a Christian military campaign to free the "Holy Land" from its "occupation" by Mulslim elements. "Jihad" originally meant a holy struggle, and also has personal connotation, implying one's constant struggle to understand and exemplify Islam. However, Jihad eventually grew to mean a dutiful holy war, an armed struggle against the infidels. This meaning was essentially monopolized by numerous groups of militant-minded Islam. Even today, many Islamic thinkers wish to recapture the original meaning of the word -- a recent progressive Islamic columnist in a (I believe) Egyptian paper wrote that "Jihad should not mean hijacking airplanes, it should mean building airplanes." Today, when a Westerner uses the word "crusade," it generally means a targeted struggle against something perceived as an evil. You hear about a "crusade against drugs," or even -- as posted recently all over NY subways -- a "Crusade against breast cancer." The religious connotation is vestigial -- no one really expects a "crusade against date rape" to be predicated upon fundamental Christian motivations. The fact that Bush used it against terrorism was a big faux-pas, because it immediately evoked the original meaning of the word, where Islam was seen as the evil. Very, very stupid -- but not at all meaning that the US was about to launch an armed Christian struggle against Islam. However, when bin Laden or the Islamic Jihad or the Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood use the word Jihad, they are using a very specific meaning of balls-out holy war in the name of Allah, with the United States and Israel (and all their citizens) being the targets. There is no vestigial religious meaning as in "crusade," there is a very real and immediate religious ideology. Even though a case may be made that they have appropriated the word -- in a long tradition of such violent appropriations -- they are quite specific in what jihad means, and what it calls for, and it is *not* pleasant. So while on the surface "crusade" and "jihad" may be both glossed as "holy war," in actual use, such as with Bush and bin Laden, or in general, the West and the Islamicist militants, there is quite a difference. Don't be deceived by easy comparisons that make the two sides seem equal in their motivations and desires. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:28:45 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Official Announcement; Tales From The Underwater. Total Robyn Content! Hi all, After delays, numerous edits and lots of procrastination I am announcing the Tales From The Underwater disc. For those of you who have not been paying attention here is the scoop. This is a set of Robyn's ramblings during the performances of Underwater Moonlight. Nearly all the concerts are represented, I was unable to get copies of two of the U.K. shows and they did not do the song in N.Y.C.. The full song is not featured, it fades in before the rap and fades out during the 'why don't you feed the fish' section. A variety of sources were used to put this together so it does not have a cohesive sound, two of them are taken from analog sources(Toronto and Vancouver). Also included are nearly if not all of Robyn's in between song patter, kind of like Having Fun With Elvis Onstage...except this is funny. The disc has 58 trax and requires a 80 min. disc. The artwork will be posted on Bayard's site along with an MP3 rip of the disc(I only sent him the material today so be patient!). If you are interested in a copy please respond to this email and let me know if you would be willing to make copies, I am unsure of the demand so you may not have to. Why don't you feed the fish? Max P.S. Thanks to all the traders and collectors who helped put this project together, especially Bayard for posting the covers and mp3s! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:38:24 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: the night they drove old 9:30 down First saw Robyn at old 9:30 in spring of 86. I was into the Paisley revival & thought of him as such, was actually put onto him by Mark Jenkins reviews in the DC City Paper. Wasn't his hair still sort of long then? and then was shorter at the 10,000 Maniacs show? The 86 show was fairly close to the Gott Let This Hen Out material, so since then I have conflated my memories of the concert w/ that record some. Man, the old 9:30 was my home away from home. I even went there a few times when it was the old Atlantis club (saw Lance Loud & the Mumps there). The Urban Verbs wrote a great song sorta about it, actually called "L.A.," but the chorus "11:40 eastern standard time ... 11:50 eastern standard time ..." is about watching the bank digital clock you could see from there. I think I've mentioned this here before, but at the Lisner Hall concert on the Perspex Iland tour, during Balloon Man a couple in eccentric simi-goth wear (capes etc.) got up & did a sort of swing dance down front for a few seconds before they were escorted away. Was that anyone here? When I lived on 16th & S in the 80s, various strange men slept on my front stoop, but from the internet pictures I don't think any of them were Bayard. Has anyone ever met James? At feg gatherings do you pitch in & all call him long distance? Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:39:19 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, matt sewell wrote: > Yes, *something* like that - 7.5 million Afghans were in danger of > starving. Just because they were starving doesn't mean they were in > camps... thankfully, the early perception that the camps around > Afghanistan would fill to bursting turned out not to be true - of course > there were many in the camps in Pakistan and Iran, but they provision of > food and food security wasn't so much of a problem. A single person in a refugee camp means the camp is overflowing. What do think a refugee camp should be, a permenent home for the weak and weary? No, its only suppose to be like that in Isreal. Right?. So like I said, those camps were overflowing and still are. > If you think that the installation of a new government has done anything > to help this situation, well, food security is diminishing - still there > may be some of those "hearts and minds" lunchboxes lying around in all > the unexploded ordanance, eh? Absolutely, thats the idea. After all the advances in warfare technology, you think we'd have cluster bombs with greater than 95% results? No way. There is no bread, so lets feed them hot metal. And its a lot cheaper than cleaning the stuff up. Anyway, dead people don't eat much. Yet relief agencies have better, broader and more secure access to these remote areas now. > >Just the number of Afghans > >killed by the ex Union of Soviet Socialists Republic is almost unreal. > >Put the blame where it belongs, but don't leave anyone out. > Well, I agree that Afghanistan (and how about the rest of the third > world) has had a raw deal from every country with which it has done > business, but how on earth does that justify bombing the crap out of it > (once again)? Even if Afghan victims of the US bombing (remember, 1k-20k > people) were a tenth of those of the soviets, does that make it right? A tenth? Yer not very good with numbers, are you? Why don't you ask the Afghans? We "bombed the crap" out of what I believe to be one of the most barbaric, backwards ass, homophobic, sexist, rascist, dangerous, group of individuals ever gathered together. Men, all gathered from the dark alleys, mental institutions, prisons and other places of ill-repute, along with select fortunate sons and playboys from the upper crust. These are the leaders of institutions like the Taliban, the rest are just the sheep. Shit, sheep will follow anyone. The same percentage of sheep are present worldwide. The sheep are easy to find. It is gathering enough leaders together to organize the sheep at such a level that is difficult. Many of them have a single thing in common. Not religion, not strong moral fortitude or righteous integrity. The thing most of these people have in common is that they are fucking insane. Insane people are everywhere. They sit next to you on the bus, stand next to you at the register and may even sleep right beside you in bed. In some places, in some conditions, the fundamentally insane do not stand out. Give the "leader" type any oppurtunity to herd the sheep and they will. > >Allowing the Taliban to > > >rule that place is like allowing Texas to be ruled as a nation entirely > by > > >the KKK or the New Black Panthers. These people are the shit that comes > > >out of shit. > > Like allowing the US to be ruled illegally by a bunch of oil magnates and > arms dealer? Are you comparing the Taliban to the US administration, past and or present or just certain members of certain administrations, past or present? gSs ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #56 *******************************