From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #53 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 14 2002 Volume 11 : Number 053 Today's Subjects: ----------------- mmm, i wish i could sing like that [anansi ] content discontent [anansi ] Re: Asscroft [steve ] Re: Racial profiling [Eleanore Adams ] Re: Another dose of Me [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: a plea for another list [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines ["Fric Chaud" ] Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines [grutness@surf4nix.com (J] Re: the 80s, Ken the youngster, and yesterday's post [Eric Loehr ] Fwd: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines [Eleanore Adams Subject: mmm, i wish i could sing like that > From: "Abydos *" > > Doe that make Fegmaniax a Tardis? I -have- always wanted one. Hey, who hasn't? > Hey--Reed is the only singer who writes songs in my range! All 9 notes > of > it;-) > > He's perfect proof of my pet contention that phrasing, mood and tude are > what make a singer, not just hitting notes. I do agree with you, actually -- there are plenty of singers (including Reed) whom I love despite their technically lousy voices, and plenty of technically adept singers who leave me cold. Robyn's voice is actually not all that, and sometimes it gets on my nerves, but again, it's not really about the "quality." :) Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:45:00 -0800 From: anansi Subject: content discontent > From: Ken Ostrander > > personally, i have little sympathy for anyone ("virtual invalids"?) who > complains about content. [...] > if you get the digest, > well that's a real shame. Yes. Yes, it is. I would agree that the political opinions expressed here are usually a cut above MAKE MONEY FAST, but I also think they tend to be on the self-indulgent side, especially given how quickly they devolve into repeating the same opinions over and over, more and more loudly. At least this round is relatively free of ad hominem. I've been trying to practice the old wives' remedy, "post what you want to read," which gives a wonderful feeling of moral superiority but fails to achieve the intended object. At least my scroll wheel has gotten a workout. Margaret and I went to Muir Beach to stay at the Pelican Inn for a little Valentine's getaway. I took The Long Goodbye along with me, which put "Raymond Chandler Evening" in my head, and then when we went to Muir Woods all I could hear while staring at the redwoods was chiming guitars. Bits of "Aquarium" worked their way in, along with "Autumn Is Your Last Chance." It was really wonderful. At places like that (both the Inn and the Woods) I find that a visit isn't really enough; what I need is a stretch of unhurried time to sit there and *inhabit* the area. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:05:24 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Asscroft On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 12:32 PM, The Great Quail wrote: > Now, I am not an Ashcroft supporter; I think he's an asshole fascist > control-freak, and a danger to the Constitution. Not to mention that he hates Art Deco and calico cats! - - Steve __________ "We're not attacking Islam, but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God," the Rev. Franklin Graham, who spoke at President Bush's inauguration, said recently. "He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:57:34 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: Racial profiling Now, I don't know much about the subject, but young white males (well anyone really) can be angry and pursuaded to a cause, i.e that kid who flew into a building in FLA, Johnny Walker, and other teens who are looking for answers to problems.... e On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 11:50 AM, FS Thomas wrote: > --- "Jason R. Thornton" wrote: >> Terrorist organizations will >> begin recruiting more and more Caucasians to their >> cause to get through the >> loopholes in security. > > I don't see an American (or wester European, for that > matter) taking up the cause of a Holy War forged by a > religion they don't belong to. It's one thing to hire > a mercenary to assassinate someone. Not hard to do. > Hire one to blow him- or herself up? I don't know HOW > much you would have to pay for that. Or who you would > pay, for that matter as you can't take it with you. > > -f. > --- > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:58:47 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Another dose of Me On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Mike Wells wrote: > > He combines the sixties with the better part of the early > > 80's and it sounds good to me. At least this is my take on it. > > Wait 'til you see his audience! What you meant to say was "the statues in my bathroom," obviously. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:04:00 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: a plea for another list On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > At 04:42 PM 2/13/2002 -0600, Brian Huddell wrote: > > > > I don't want to read endless, irrelevant emails from people > > > whose opinions on world events, politics, and social issues > > > are about as valid, and interesting, as spam. > > > >I think that's an unduly harsh characterization of any of today's > >players. > > Bah! I dated a girl who really liked spam, especially with eggs. I took I hear Spam is extremely popular in Hawaii. No shit - really. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:13:54 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Pazz and Jop poll out A recent (possibly ex-?) feg who shall remain nameless passed this on to me. You may be interested. >The Pazz & Jop poll results were posted yesterday....check >http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/01/ James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:13:32 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: 10 year anniversary of my first Robyn concert hey I was there too!! e On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 02:27 PM, Bachman, Michael wrote: > It was 10 years ago today, 2-12-92, at the Royal Oak Theatre in Royal > Oak, > MI, that > I first saw Robyn Hitchcock, opening act Mathew Sweet, on a cold winters > night. > Nuppy and Eddie were also in attendance, although I didn't know them at > the > time. > How many other fegs on this list were there? The Yip Song made its > debut. > > Michael Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:10:15 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines Wow you folks can talk! I hope this is my only addition to all this blether, so I'll make it long, get it off my chest in one hit. Apologies for that (especially to people like jim, who are bored with all this - and I can't blame him for that). >Anti-US attacks. Does this include kidnapings? (I >only ask because of the high percentage of Latin >American entries in the category. Ah, those evil Colombian and Ecuadorian moslems...! >> Yes, of course there are Muslim extremists - but >> there are extremists of >> every nationality and religion. > >True. You can't hamstring security for the sake of >political correctness, though. true. and for that reason, if you're going to check one group, you should check them all. Allowing non-Moslems through unchecked is in itself 'hamstringing security'. >I do feel genuine sympathy for Muslim Americans (be >they immigrants to this country or born citizens) for >any ill-placed back-lashes and inconveniences due to >security. I feel more sympathy, though, for the >families who lost loved ones as a result of the >terrorist attacks or who have family members serving >in the military stationed in the Mid East. the people who lost loved ones in the terror attacks, yes. But although I do feel for those with serving family-members, I feel less sympathy for these people - who knew damn well that those family members might some day have to serve - than I do for those who in many cases moved from oppressive regimes to 'the land of the liberty' (hah) where they are now being abused for simply having the wrong religion or skin colour. Freedom of religion is supposed to be important in the US - important enough to have been the first item in the bill of rights. >If a string >of crimes is committed and all the witnesses say there is one thing about >the suspect that they remember distinctly, that information is used to >create a profile so that a more effective investigation and can be made. >What this also does is give possible future victims a little better chance >of not being a victim. They all say the person was a white man, so should >all Chinese women now be considered suspects? no, but if a string of crimes has been committed by a group of different people, and if 95% of those crimes have been committed by one particular demographic, then can we say for certain that the next crime of the same type will also be committed by someone from this demographic? Is it better to check only that demographic and let 1 in 20 terrorists slip through, or to check everyone irrespective of their identity? If you're going to test, then test everyone. And if you were in Al Qaeda, and wanting more terrorism, would you now recruit people in the highest profile demographic? No, you wouldn't be that stupid. You'd start looking for gullible suckers who aren't middle eastern. You'd find... obh, I don't know... a Jamaican Brit, perhaps, who could be persuaded. Who knows who the next person will be? Chances are they'll be Moslem, but do Moslems fit a particular body shape or colour? Let's face it, most Moslems are not from the Middle East. The biggest Moslem countries in the world in terms of devout population are Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan, and BanglaDesh. Of those only Pakistan could be vaguely considered Middle-Eastern. Can you identify a moslem? What are you gonna do, offer them a ham sandwich and glass of whisky? That guy with olive skin and long beard? That's Rabbi Avi Goldblatt. That Chinese-looking guy over there must be safe... Well he's actually from the southern Philippines. Ethiopian passport? Orthodox Christian. French passport? Yes, but born in Algeria. That tall guy with the glasses? That's Kareem Abdul Jabbar - wanna test him? >> What's so illogical about re-screening passengers >> randomly, on the off-chance that Middle Easterners aren't the only >> people willing to hijack, or commit acts of mass violence? > >They may not be, but they're not the ones who have recently. are the INLA in N. Ireland and ETA in Spain Shi'ite or Sunni? >I hate George Bush, his policies and his illegal government of cronies, >let's get that straight. However, just because I hate these, it does not >follow that: >1. I hate America >2. I support anti-american terrorism >3. I have more sympathy for (say) Afghans than for (say) Americans who >have been killed >4. I think the Taliban, Soviets, Pashtuns or Al-Queda have any moral high >ground over anyone in case someone suggests it, I am anti-Bush. I am not anti America - in fact, to use the old cliche, many of my best friends are American (a lot of them can be found on this list!). However I am against any suggestion that the US knows better what is good for the world than anyone else, and particularly I am against the idea that the US knows better what is good for the middle east. I have as much sympathy for innocent Afghans as for innocent Americans who have suffered. I have more sympathy for both of these groups than I have for the military who have died on either side. I do not believe that any people that wish to impose their will over another has any moral high ground, nor do I believe that followers of any religion have any high ground over each other or over the rest of the world. However, I also believe that some moral high ground may be claimed byu those fighting to liberate people from oppressive regimes, and that includes the NATO/US/UN/Northern Alliance forces. I would,. however, like the words 'liberate' and 'oppressive' defined in an acceptable way. >Long before Sept. 11, the refugee camps in and >around Afghanistan were over flowing by the millions and millions and >millions and millions and millions and millions and millions. either this is hypoerbole or (if you take 'millions' to be the minimum possible, 2 million) you've just accounted for 14,000,000 people. I make that 75% of Afghanistan's population. And that's just the overflow from the camps! >Or, better yet, why not make sure the airline screening process is thorough >enough to catch as many weapons, bombs, etc. as possible without stepping >on the rights of a few? Wouldn't it be better to come up a system that >systemically searches and finds the tools of terrorism... hm. one problem. In the right hands, just about anything could be a tool of terrorism. >Is this country at war with a group of Middle Eastern Muslim >extremists? Unquestionably. funny, I thought the war was simply against terrorists. I don't remember it being called "The war against Middle Eastern Moslem terrorism" >"everybody's just gotta keep fucking everybody else 'til we're all the same >color". >- -j billington bulworth sounds cool to me. When do we start? James np - REM - isn't one of them an airline terrorist? ;) PS - some of us have still never seen Robyn live in concert :((( James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:23:54 -0500 From: shmac@ix.netcom.com (Scott Hunter McCleary) Subject: RE: the 80s, Ken the youngster, and yesterday's post My first Robyn show was 7/24/88 at the old 9:30 in DC. I'm assuming =b was there (probably needed a fake ID in '88, though). Anyone else? Profiling Peter Buck, Scott ========= SH McCleary Prodigal Dog Communications PO Box 6163 Arlington, VA 22206 shmac@prodigaldog.com www.prodigaldog.com www.1480kHz.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:32:35 -0800 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: A Day in The List On Wed, Feb 13, 2002, Mike Wells wrote: > Motorhead. Masturbation. Racial Profiling. > > Discuss. You forgot self oral sex. Or is that considered masturbation? Oh, and better than Quail playing Motorhead on the jukebox tonight was the fact that he found out after that I actually made the CD. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:55:35 -0500 From: "Fric Chaud" Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines On 14 Feb 2002, at 18:10, James Dignan wrote: > hm. one problem. In the right hands, just about anything could be a > tool of terrorism. > http://www.montypython.net/scripts/fruit.php - -- Fric Chaud - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:09:44 -0600 From: JH3 Subject: Re: the 80s, Ken the youngster, and yesterday's post From: "Scott Hunter McCleary": > My first Robyn show was 7/24/88 at the old 9:30 in DC. I'm > assuming =b was there (probably needed a fake ID in '88, > though). Anyone else? Me! Back in those days I never missed a Robyn gig at the 9:30. You were wearing the dark red Minor Threat t-shirt, right? You probably remember me, too - I was wearing my stolen Residents eyeball mask... (Oops, I probably shouldn't have mentioned that.) Anyway, I don't think Bayard was there; I would've remembered, though I didn't actually meet him until 1998. John "if I can start posting again, so can you-know-who" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:23:03 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines >> hm. one problem. In the right hands, just about anything could be a >> tool of terrorism. > >http://www.montypython.net/scripts/fruit.php I gets the picture - fresh fruit not good enough for you, eh? :) James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 03:08:12 -0500 From: Eric Loehr Subject: Re: the 80s, Ken the youngster, and yesterday's post At 12:09 AM 2/14/02 -0600, JH3 wrote: >John "if I can start posting again, so can you-know-who" Hedges Who? Lawn Dart? El ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:47:57 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines Ok, I don't want to get into this debate, but if one talks about witnesses - did this paper last year, and the #1 least reliable evidence of the correct person being identified as a purpetrator of a crime is by eyewitness identification. Gary Wells has written a great book on the topic Mistaken Identification, and the State dept put out a study on it in 1999 (you can get it on line) This is not quite what you guys are talking about bcs terrorists are advertising who they are often, but this is not true for most crimes......I am working on filing a federal habeas right now and the client was a black male who was never positivly identified, but the purp was a black male of average height and build etc..... e On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 08:55 AM, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > At 09:32 AM 2/13/2002 -0500, gSs wrote: > >> If a string >> of crimes is committed and all the witnesses say there is one thing >> about >> the suspect that they remember distinctly, that information is used to >> create a profile so that a more effective investigation and can be >> made. >> What this also does is give possible future victims a little better >> chance >> of not being a victim. They all say the person was a white man, so >> should >> all Chinese women now be considered suspects? But if they are excluded, >> simply based on descriptions from witnesses, is that not profiling? Why >> don't they just detain and search all of us as we walk out our front >> door >> on suspicion of terrorist activity. We are all suspects, aren't we? >> No, we >> are not all suspects. There appears to be a few distinct things that >> all >> of the terrorists have so far had in common and that data is being >> used to >> create a profile. > > There's a big difference between your example and what was being > advocated here. > > Looking for a specific person suspected of committing a crime based on > an accurate description and credible information gathered about the > crime is perfectly logical. > > If you're going after a certain person tied to a terrorist group, and > you know this person to be of Middle Eastern decent, then there's > nothing wrong with looking for a specific Middle Easterner that looks a > certain way. If witnesses all agree that the guy that robbed the bank > had blue eyes, you can rule out that guy with green eyes the cops > picked for "acting suspicious." > > It's another thing entirely to target a group as *potential* criminals, > based solely on their ethnicity. > > > > > --Jason > > "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." > - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 03:12:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines Fric Chaud wrote: > James Dignan wrote: > > hm. one problem. In the right hands, just about anything could be a > > tool of terrorism. > http://www.montypython.net/scripts/fruit.php and if you wait a while, the stewardesses will bring you a knife and fork. sure they're pretty dull, but if you really wanted to, you could kill someone with those things. ===== "This week, the White House says President Bush meant no disrespect when he referred to the Pakistani people as 'Pakis.' But just to be on the safe side, White House staffers have cancelled his trip to Nigeria" -- Tina Fey, Saturday Night Live's "Weekend Update" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt . Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:32:55 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Postponing Hibernation Brian Huddell wrote: > > Kaaayyy!? What's a low-minded ape like me supposed to do with *this*? there's a branch of yoga dedicated to this very "art"... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:43:46 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Another dose of Me barbara soutar wrote: > > ... but this recent British Columbia FASCIST/"Liberal" > government is really getting me mad! Any others in Canada might know > what I'm talking about here. Oh dear. I have fairly close relatives in Victoria who think the current mob are a bunch of pinko commies. Guess I better not talk politics with them, then. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:58:05 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Fwd: Out in Ballard looking soulful at the pines A reminder from NZ - we have a Bill of Rights, and a presumption of innocence here in the USA, and we must preserve these things. They are not practiced correctly as it is before 9/1, and I don't want more of these rights to disappear. I will live with some danger if it means to preserve these things. e > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 09:10 PM, James Dignan wrote: > >> Wow you folks can talk! >> >> I hope this is my only addition to all this blether, so I'll make it >> long, >> get it off my chest in one hit. Apologies for that (especially to >> people >> like jim, who are bored with all this - and I can't blame him for >> that). >> >>> Anti-US attacks. Does this include kidnapings? (I >>> only ask because of the high percentage of Latin >>> American entries in the category. >> >> Ah, those evil Colombian and Ecuadorian moslems...! >> >>>> Yes, of course there are Muslim extremists - but >>>> there are extremists of >>>> every nationality and religion. >>> >>> True. You can't hamstring security for the sake of >>> political correctness, though. >> >> true. and for that reason, if you're going to check one group, you >> should >> check them all. Allowing non-Moslems through unchecked is in itself >> 'hamstringing security'. >> >>> I do feel genuine sympathy for Muslim Americans (be >>> they immigrants to this country or born citizens) for >>> any ill-placed back-lashes and inconveniences due to >>> security. I feel more sympathy, though, for the >>> families who lost loved ones as a result of the >>> terrorist attacks or who have family members serving >>> in the military stationed in the Mid East. >> >> the people who lost loved ones in the terror attacks, yes. But >> although I >> do feel for those with serving family-members, I feel less sympathy for >> these people - who knew damn well that those family members might some >> day >> have to serve - than I do for those who in many cases moved from >> oppressive >> regimes to 'the land of the liberty' (hah) where they are now being >> abused >> for simply having the wrong religion or skin colour. >> >> Freedom of religion is supposed to be important in the US - important >> enough to have been the first item in the bill of rights. >> >>> If a string >>> of crimes is committed and all the witnesses say there is one thing >>> about >>> the suspect that they remember distinctly, that information is used to >>> create a profile so that a more effective investigation and can be >>> made. >>> What this also does is give possible future victims a little better >>> chance >>> of not being a victim. They all say the person was a white man, so >>> should >>> all Chinese women now be considered suspects? >> >> no, but if a string of crimes has been committed by a group of >> different >> people, and if 95% of those crimes have been committed by one >> particular >> demographic, then can we say for certain that the next crime of the >> same >> type will also be committed by someone from this demographic? Is it >> better >> to check only that demographic and let 1 in 20 terrorists slip >> through, or >> to check everyone irrespective of their identity? If you're going to >> test, >> then test everyone. >> >> And if you were in Al Qaeda, and wanting more terrorism, would you now >> recruit people in the highest profile demographic? No, you wouldn't be >> that >> stupid. You'd start looking for gullible suckers who aren't middle >> eastern. >> You'd find... obh, I don't know... a Jamaican Brit, perhaps, who could >> be >> persuaded. Who knows who the next person will be? Chances are they'll >> be >> Moslem, but do Moslems fit a particular body shape or colour? >> >> Let's face it, most Moslems are not from the Middle East. The biggest >> Moslem countries in the world in terms of devout population are >> Indonesia, >> Nigeria, Pakistan, and BanglaDesh. Of those only Pakistan could be >> vaguely >> considered Middle-Eastern. Can you identify a moslem? What are you >> gonna >> do, offer them a ham sandwich and glass of whisky? That guy with olive >> skin >> and long beard? That's Rabbi Avi Goldblatt. That Chinese-looking guy >> over >> there must be safe... Well he's actually from the southern Philippines. >> Ethiopian passport? Orthodox Christian. French passport? Yes, but born >> in >> Algeria. That tall guy with the glasses? That's Kareem Abdul Jabbar - >> wanna >> test him? >> >>>> What's so illogical about re-screening passengers >>>> randomly, on the off-chance that Middle Easterners aren't the only >>>> people willing to hijack, or commit acts of mass violence? >>> >>> They may not be, but they're not the ones who have recently. >> >> are the INLA in N. Ireland and ETA in Spain Shi'ite or Sunni? >> >>> I hate George Bush, his policies and his illegal government of >>> cronies, >>> let's get that straight. However, just because I hate these, it does >>> not >>> follow that: >>> 1. I hate America >>> 2. I support anti-american terrorism >>> 3. I have more sympathy for (say) Afghans than for (say) Americans who >>> have been killed >>> 4. I think the Taliban, Soviets, Pashtuns or Al-Queda have any moral >>> high >>> ground over anyone >> >> in case someone suggests it, I am anti-Bush. I am not anti America - in >> fact, to use the old cliche, many of my best friends are American (a >> lot of >> them can be found on this list!). However I am against any suggestion >> that >> the US knows better what is good for the world than anyone else, and >> particularly I am against the idea that the US knows better what is >> good >> for the middle east. I have as much sympathy for innocent Afghans as >> for >> innocent Americans who have suffered. I have more sympathy for both of >> these groups than I have for the military who have died on either >> side. I >> do not believe that any people that wish to impose their will over >> another >> has any moral high ground, nor do I believe that followers of any >> religion >> have any high ground over each other or over the rest of the world. >> However, I also believe that some moral high ground may be claimed byu >> those fighting to liberate people from oppressive regimes, and that >> includes the NATO/US/UN/Northern Alliance forces. I would,. however, >> like >> the words 'liberate' and 'oppressive' defined in an acceptable way. >> >>> Long before Sept. 11, the refugee camps in and >>> around Afghanistan were over flowing by the millions and millions and >>> millions and millions and millions and millions and millions. >> >> either this is hypoerbole or (if you take 'millions' to be the minimum >> possible, 2 million) you've just accounted for 14,000,000 people. I >> make >> that 75% of Afghanistan's population. And that's just the overflow >> from the >> camps! >> >>> Or, better yet, why not make sure the airline screening process is >>> thorough >>> enough to catch as many weapons, bombs, etc. as possible without >>> stepping >>> on the rights of a few? Wouldn't it be better to come up a system >>> that >>> systemically searches and finds the tools of terrorism... >> >> hm. one problem. In the right hands, just about anything could be a >> tool of >> terrorism. >> >>> Is this country at war with a group of Middle Eastern Muslim >>> extremists? Unquestionably. >> >> funny, I thought the war was simply against terrorists. I don't >> remember it >> being called "The war against Middle Eastern Moslem terrorism" >> >>> "everybody's just gotta keep fucking everybody else 'til we're all >>> the same >>> color". >>> - -j billington bulworth >> >> sounds cool to me. When do we start? >> >> James >> >> np - REM - isn't one of them an airline terrorist? ;) >> >> PS - some of us have still never seen Robyn live in concert :((( >> >> James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= >> .-=-.-=-.-=-.- >> .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. >> -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance >> =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time >> -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #53 *******************************