From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V11 #9 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, January 8 2002 Volume 11 : Number 009 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: iMac and bye Dave ["Fric Chaud" ] Westerberg/Greenaway [Marshall Needleman Armintor ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #7 ["Natalie Jane" ] The Fellowship of the Feg ["Redtailed Hawk" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #7 ["Fric Chaud" ] News You Can Use ["Mike Wells" ] OT audio stuff - pre-amps ["ross taylor" ] Re: iMac and bye Dave [Christopher Gross ] RE: The Fellowship of the Feg ["Brian Huddell" ] Re: The Fellowship of the Feg [Viv Lyon ] Re: The Fellowship of the Feg [Christopher Gross ] Re: iMac and bye Dave ["Fric Chaud" ] Re: iMac and bye Dave [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: The Fellowship of the Shark [bayard ] Re: iMac and bye Dave [Capuchin ] Re: The Fellowship of the Shark [Capuchin ] iMac Rev2D2 [Ken Weingold ] Re: iMac and bye Dave [Tom Clark ] Dancing about attributions ["Chris Franz" ] Re: Dancing about attributions ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: Dancing about attributions [Glen Uber ] Re: Dancing about attributions [Tom Clark ] Re: previously discussed topic [Eb ] Re: Another Mere Mortal [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Dancing about attributions ["Chris Franz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:13:29 -0500 From: "Fric Chaud" Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave On 8 Jan 2002, at 10:20, Christopher Gross wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Fric Chaud wrote: > > I see that a 800Mhz Mac "crushes" a 2200Mhz P4. That silly- > > looking case must be much heavier than it looks! > Ah, I knew an iMac mention Plug? > would draw a response from Fric! ;) I > don't know if Apple has specifically claimed that an 800Mhz Mac > "crushes" a 2200Mhz P4. Here is a quote from the Apple site: "Inside its ultra-compact 10.6-inch base lives the fastest iMac ever, with a Pentium-crushing 800MHz PowerPC G4 processor that blazes through Mac OS X applications." That is all it says about performance. You tell me if that is misleading or not. > By all reports I've seen, G3 and G4 based Macs are faster than > Pentiums at the same clock speed You can't even buy an 800Mhz Pentium anymore around here. How about a dollar-for-dollar performance comparison? Keep reading... > But I would bet that a 700 or 800 Mhz iMac is faster than its real > competitors,1000 and 1300 Mhz consumer-level Wintel boxes > from BestBuy and CompUSA. These prices from Apple's web page and CompUSA's web page: "Pentium Crushing Imac" 800Mhz - $1700. P4 - 1.5Ghz - $900 at CompUSA. P4 - 2.0Ghz - $1550 at CompUSA. I can't find a 1300Mhz Pentium at CompUSA anymore, but maybe if they put it in a silly enough case it could cost $1700 too. Would you like fries with your words? >In other news, RIP Dave Thomas, founder of the Wendy's fast food > chain. Now, I'm not one to gloat over someone's death just because I > found them annoying ... but I *am* eagerly anticipating an end to > those incredibly irritating Wendy's commercials. Is some corporate shill plugging Wendy's products on this list, too? - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:43:59 -0600 (CST) From: Marshall Needleman Armintor Subject: Westerberg/Greenaway <> The Mats used to do "Nowhere Man" live -- I've got a bootleg from from '83 where they tear right through it in a pretty robust fashion, as opposed to just kinda faking it and making a joke out of it, as they were wont to do. You'd know, of course, that Westerberg, the Midwestern bard of futility and despair (with a faint lining of optimism), would pick that one song out of the whole Beatles catalog to make his own. Re: Prospero's Books -- I remember seeing this shortly after it was released and had a fabulous argument with my thesis advisor about it; we both liked it for quite different reasons. None of the Shakespeareans I've met think it's worth watching except for one guy, who's an esteemed Renaissance scholar...but then, he confided in me, "I think _The Tempest_ is a rather bad play." On a somewhat related note, as I remember it, the Mazursky film _Tempest_ (the one with Cassavetes, Susan Sarandon, Gena Rowlands, and Molly Ringwald) isn't bad either...there are some stunning visuals in it, even if it doesn't really much hold together as a dramatic narrative. Marshall np Slim Gaillard, _The Legendary McVouty_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:51:32 -0800 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #7 >Thank you Nat. I'd forgotten what the word for that was. Katie was so >covered with it we couldnt tell at first what color her long locks >were. I >think it would make a great adjective. Vernixal? James is probably right about "vernical." I was the first person (besides the mom) to hold my friends' new baby, and when I staggered home at dawn, I found I had a big smudge of vernix on my shirt. There might be some correlation between the amount of vernix and how early the baby is born... possibly late-term babies have less of it because it comes off? I know there is such a correlation re. lanugo, which is a fine coating of hair that usually falls off in utero. Lanugo takes the place of body fat, to keep the baby warm when it's pre-term. A fact that I find fascinating - anorexics, when they get skinny enough, grow a coat of lanugo. > >I wish I could see birds of prey more often > >So come East in the fall and stay here for a few days. The last time I saw a raptor was when I was out east. When I finally escaped from my grandma's retirement home in Buffalo, on its way down the drive the taxi passed a fence where a huge pale hawk was sitting. The driver backed up so I could look at it. I'm still not sure what species it was. >Ive always wondered how the american(and the NZ--black you say-- >thats >sounds like a crow in robin's clothing) robin got dubbed a >robin, since >they do look like different birds. Because it has a red breast, presumably. Now here's a confusing thing - American robins are actually a kind of thrush, as are British blackbirds, which behave exactly like American robins (hopping about, looking for worms, etc.). Are NZ "robins" actually British blackbirds? n., feeling like a massive trainspotter _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:12:11 +0000 From: "Redtailed Hawk" Subject: The Fellowship of the Feg Eclipse: >kay can come visit me for a beginning silversmithing lesson. then i'll go >to james' to learn about flags .. :) Cool--I've always wanted to learn how to make "real" jewlery. The only problem is that we will -all- want to visit James and I'm not sure his place is big enough. Some of us will have to camp out in the backyard perhaps:-) Lets have our flag lessons on the beach. With refreshments and a musical interlude by ... Hey-- if it were my perfect world it would happen. Especially the trip around the whole Island where we will make "our own" version of LOTR. Quail is the director. We'll get him a megaphone. Jeme, Tom, Ken, and most of the ls can do stuff with machines of various sorts. I want imput in the art direction, as would probobly James, Eclipse and Drew. Woj could play Aragorn and Mike Wells or Stewart Boromir, LJ is Gladrieal and Viv or Susan for Arwen. I get first dibs on Legelos(hmm--that guy-role in a skirt thing again,)Ross, you once described yourself as short--how are you with an axe, Eb can be Elrond, whoevers youngest could do the hobbits and three guesses who I think would make a groovy, if, er, slightly unusual Gandolf. Hmmm-- but who would Nat or Jill or Drew or James or Bayard or Doug or Eddie play?(and stay away from Legelos, I'll have you know I was a dandy archer in my salad days.) Maybe we'll put in a special part for Fric. Maybe we'll add penguins. Are there any hallucenogenic mushrooms native to NZ? Looking out on a cold, icy day, this seems like a -really- good idea. Now, how do we get the money? Maybe Fineman films;-? Kay, who actually almost understands some of the tech posts All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed. Sean O'Casey _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:26:16 -0500 From: "Fric Chaud" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V11 #7 On 8 Jan 2002, at 8:51, Natalie Jane wrote: > Now here's a confusing thing > - American robins are actually a kind of thrush, as are British > blackbirds, which behave exactly like American robins (hopping about, > looking for worms, etc.). I had always thought it was a big finch. A web search proved Nathalie right. I also see its Latin name is Turdus migratorius, which would suit seagulls so much better! - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:51:52 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: News You Can Use Favorite headline so far, 2002: "Bush seeks stimulus package" Ain't that the truth. Favorite headline, 2001: "(experts claim) There's aliens in J.Lo's Butt" Damn, I KNEW it! Michael who had a dream RH will tour here in June '02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:18:05 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: OT audio stuff - pre-amps This is really basic, but I've got a cheapo CD /tape/radio box from Panasonic & a JVC turntable. My old CD system the turntable went right in the back & was loud & clear. THe new system needs an external phono preamp. I was handed a Recoton (cheap). The turntable's volume is still very low -- is this my lot in life w/ this CD system, or will better preamps help the volume? (I don't care about anything but volume.) I'm obviously trying to avoid the furniture movement/learning curve of putting the turntable into my PC -- my PC is currently in private space & our turntable is in public space. Please mail me off list if there is anything to be said about this. sorry & thanks Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:25:55 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave All right, I'm going to (briefly!) break my promise not to say more.... On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Fric Chaud wrote: > > Ah, I knew an iMac mention > > Plug? I said it looks like an anglepoise lamp. Even on an RH list, that can hardly be considered a plug. > Here is a quote from the Apple site: > > "Inside its ultra-compact 10.6-inch base lives the fastest iMac ever, > with a Pentium-crushing 800MHz PowerPC G4 processor that > blazes through Mac OS X applications." > > That is all it says about performance. You tell me if that is > misleading or not. Misleading? Maybe in its vagueness. It doesn't say *which* Pentiums it crushes. (Would I be a total geek if I said Pentia instead of Pentiums?) > "Pentium Crushing Imac" 800Mhz - $1700. > P4 - 1.5Ghz - $900 at CompUSA. > P4 - 2.0Ghz - $1550 at CompUSA. Unfair comparison. First of all, the P4s you quote do NOT include monitors! Secondly, the iMac you quote (the most expensive iMac model) has a DVD-R/CD-RW drive, while both the P4s lack DVD-R capability. When you factor in these two points, the iMac looks like at least an equivalent deal, even without considering the "style" factor. > I can't find a 1300Mhz Pentium at CompUSA anymore, but maybe > if they put it in a silly enough case it could cost $1700 too. I see 1300 Mhz and slower Penti* for sale at both CompUSA and BestBuy. Sure, they're probably just old inventory they haven't sold out yet, but they're definitely there. > Would you like fries with your words? Eh? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:35:23 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: The Fellowship of the Feg Kay: > Cool--I've always wanted to learn how to make "real" jewlery. You make absolutely *gorgeous* jewelry! And suddenly I'm afraid that this is the first time I've acknowledged your gift from last year. If so, many thanks, and I'll be slithering off to Hell now. Fegs! Do something that causes Kay to want to make jewelry for you. You'll be glad you did. +brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:40:23 -0800 (PST) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: The Fellowship of the Feg On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Redtailed Hawk wrote: > Eclipse: > >kay can come visit me for a beginning silversmithing lesson. then i'll go > >to james' to learn about flags .. :) > > Cool--I've always wanted to learn how to make "real" jewlery. The only > problem is that we will -all- want to visit James and I'm not sure his place > is big enough. Some of us will have to camp out in the backyard perhaps:-) Return of Fegtopia! Hell, I might move to NZ just to get away from the nightmare of the American Dream. Actually, I've really been thinking about this a lot. A lot. But as Jeme says, when I tell him NZ is paradise, why should they take us? What do we have to offer them? Except for the concept of freedom of speech, of course. Or am I wrong about that, James? > Lets have our flag lessons on the beach. With refreshments and a musical > interlude by ... > Hey-- if it were my perfect world it would happen. Especially the trip > around the whole Island where we will make "our own" version of LOTR. Quail > is the director. I agree that this seems logical, but let's not forget that our version can be any length we choose, and therefore I insist that we include Tom Bombadil, of _course_ played by Quail (LJ also coincidentally being perfect for Goldberry). And I've always thought of Woj as Elrond. Now that I consider it, though, maybe Woj is (though I can't really see him singing and gallavanting through the forest) more appropriate for Tom Bombadil. After all, he's been around the longest and Tom is supposed to be older than most of Middlearth's inhabitants. Susan can definitely be Elrond's daughter, though as that part is currently cast I doubt she'll be too interested. I'd rather be Eowyn, but I suspect I'll have to duke it out with Gnat for the privilege. But who's Frodo? Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:05:34 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: The Fellowship of the Feg On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Redtailed Hawk wrote: > Hey-- if it were my perfect world it would happen. Especially the trip > around the whole Island where we will make "our own" version of LOTR. Quail > is the director. We'll get him a megaphone. Jeme, Tom, Ken, and most of the > ls can do stuff with machines of various sorts. Can I be Best Boy? I always thought that sounded attractive. On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Viv Lyon wrote: > But who's Frodo? Bayard! You know it's gotta be Bayard. - --Chris np: Ethyl Meatplow, "Sad Bear" ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:16:42 -0800 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: The Fellowship of the Feg On 1/8/02 11:05 AM, "Christopher Gross" wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Viv Lyon wrote: > >> But who's Frodo? > > Bayard! You know it's gotta be Bayard. Not a chance. Sharkboy would make a great Frodo. I should've been a Foley Artist, - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:30:55 -0500 From: "Fric Chaud" Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave On 8 Jan 2002, at 13:25, Christopher Gross wrote: > I said it looks like an anglepoise lamp. Even on an RH list, that can > hardly be considered a plug. It's not so much your individual remark as the context. Do a google search on this list on Apple product names. I bet you won't see any other brand name being dropped so often. Your fly is open, Appleheads, and we can see the Jordache tag on your underwear. > Misleading? Maybe in its vagueness. It doesn't say *which* Pentiums > it crushes. Could they have said that in a way that would mislead more people without actually lying? Casual consumers will read that and understand "Imac crushes Pentium". > > "Pentium Crushing Imac" 800Mhz - $1700. > > P4 - 1.5Ghz - $900 at CompUSA. > > P4 - 2.0Ghz - $1550 at CompUSA. > > Unfair comparison. First of all, the P4s you quote do NOT include > monitors! OK, add $150-$200. Now how do they compare? You don't have to buy a silly gooseneck LCD screen, unless you buy Imac. The silly packaging, the LCD and the DVD writing capability do nothing to enhance the Imac's Pentium Crushing Power. And that's what I took exception to. >Secondly, the iMac you quote (the most expensive iMac > model) has a DVD-R/CD-RW drive, while both the P4s lack DVD-R > capability. The other two have 700Mhz processors, not 800Mhz. At what point does the "Pentium crushing" begin? The 2200Mhz P2 I quoted was the 2nd most expensive Pentium model, with the other just edging out the Imac slightly in price but runs at close to 3 times the speed. As I understand it 1Mhz of Mac = 1.3Mhz of Intel PIII. This is P4. > I see 1300 Mhz and slower Penti* for sale at both CompUSA and BestBuy. > Sure, they're probably just old inventory they haven't sold out yet, > but they're definitely there. Not on the web site. I'm a rather long drive from the nearest CompUSA outlet store. Now I'll shut up, at least onlist. - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:35:54 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave - -- Fric Chaud is rumored to have mumbled on Dienstag, 8. Januar 2002 13:30 Uhr -0500 regarding Re: iMac and bye Dave: > It's not so much your individual remark as the context. Do a google > search on this list on Apple product names. I bet you won't see > any other brand name being dropped so often. So? I guess you can draw all kinds of conclusions from that ... That argument cuts both ways. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Winter is coming. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:32:14 -0800 (PST) From: bayard Subject: Re: The Fellowship of the Shark > Not a chance. Sharkboy would make a great Frodo. speaking of whom... Sharku, your email seems to be rebounding. And the last post i see from you was in June. And the only sign of your web site is in Glen's portfolio. Where are you? =b "let us join the throng!" c., aka "big G" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:44:08 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Fric Chaud wrote: > Could they have said that in a way that would mislead more people > without actually lying? Casual consumers will read that and > understand "Imac crushes Pentium". In fact, a G4 does crush a Pentium. In LOTS of ways. I've got lots of Pentium and other Intel processors and I'd trade MOST of them (and the motherboards I'm using them on) for a good G4 with a flexible motherboard and chassis. And by the way, my dual PIII 850s seem to outrun nearly all the P4 benchmarks I've seen... including the ludicrous 2.2 GHz models (can you imagine what the high frequency radiation must be like on those things?). > > > "Pentium Crushing Imac" 800Mhz - $1700. > > > P4 - 1.5Ghz - $900 at CompUSA. > > > P4 - 2.0Ghz - $1550 at CompUSA. > > > > Unfair comparison. First of all, the P4s you quote do NOT include > > monitors! > > OK, add $150-$200. Now how do they compare? You don't have to buy a > silly gooseneck LCD screen, unless you buy Imac. And LCD screen has LOTS of advantages over a CRT and very few of them are stylistic. Radiation, desktop real estate, and power consumption all spring immediately to mind. > The silly packaging, the LCD and the DVD writing capability do nothing > to enhance the Imac's Pentium Crushing Power. And that's what I took > exception to. Well, if you're just comparing "crushing power", then compare apples to apples. A high quality motherboard (and Gloster can probably tell you why the ones you get at CompUSA for $40 don't stand up to those produced for the iMac), good RAM, a fast processor, and we're talking about VERY comparable price/performance numbers. Now, I'm not saying the iMac is a great choice. I have always had a problem with single-unit devices and proprietary hardware (either in architecture or form factor), so you won't see one on my desk unless it's stolen. Imagine what a laptop with those features would cost. Then realize that the iMac uses almost all the same hardware except for the power supply and uses the higher powered, standard voltage processors. > The other two have 700Mhz processors, not 800Mhz. At what point does > the "Pentium crushing" begin? The 2200Mhz P2 I quoted was the 2nd > most expensive Pentium model, with the other just edging out the Imac > slightly in price but runs at close to 3 times the speed. As I > understand it 1Mhz of Mac = 1.3Mhz of Intel PIII. This is P4. It doesn't make any sense to apply some linear conversion factor and say "this speed of this is that speed of that". Megahertz are just clock cycles per second. The type of instructions executed in those clock cycles (and the number of cycles necessary to carry out certain complex instructions) can make two differently designed processors (running at the same clock speed) running differently designed code (written to perform the same general task) compiled on differently designed compilers perform wildly differently. And for "Pentium crushing performance" compare a G4 on an Apple motherboard running OSX to a P4 on a Packard Bell motherboard running WindowsXP. Hell, you'll be lucky if the Windows machine executes a useful instruction every 100 clock cycles. Anyway, for my money, time and energy, it's high quality, standardized hardware running Free Software. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:47:22 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The Fellowship of the Shark On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, bayard wrote: > Sharku, your email seems to be rebounding. And the last post i see > from you was in June. I've got a post from Mark Gloster dated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:41:59 -0800. > And the only sign of your web site is in Glen's portfolio. Where are > you? Granted, < http://www.tigermonkey.com/ > seems to be gone. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:47:02 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: iMac Rev2D2 http://kan.org/misc/iMacD2.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 15:14:20 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: iMac and bye Dave Arguing about processor speed is like dancing about architecture. Many apologies to RH, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:13:54 -0800 From: "Chris Franz" Subject: Dancing about attributions >Arguing about processor speed is like dancing about architecture. > >Many apologies to RH, >-tc After seeing Tom's post, I got curious about the source of this line ("Talking [or writing] about music is like dancing about architecture") -- it turns out there's some degree of controversy on its origin. It's been attributed to everyone from Robyn to Frank Zappa to Steve Martin, but the most credible web source I've seen cites Elvis Costello as the originator in a 1983 Musician Magazine interview. http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm How did Robyn get associated with this quote? - - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:33:07 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Dancing about attributions >From: "Chris Franz" It's been >attributed to everyone from Robyn to Frank Zappa to Steve Martin, but the >most credible web source I've seen cites Elvis Costello as the originator >in >a 1983 Musician Magazine interview. > >http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm > >How did Robyn get associated with this quote? > >- Chris I always thought it was a Laurie Anderson quote? Max _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:34:19 -0800 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: Dancing about attributions On 1/8/02 4:13 PM, "Chris Franz" wrote: >> Arguing about processor speed is like dancing about architecture. >> >> Many apologies to RH, >> -tc > > After seeing Tom's post, I got curious about the source of this line > ("Talking [or writing] about music is like dancing about architecture") -- > it turns out there's some degree of controversy on its origin. It's been > attributed to everyone from Robyn to Frank Zappa to Steve Martin, but the > most credible web source I've seen cites Elvis Costello as the originator in > a 1983 Musician Magazine interview. I thought John Lennon once said something along the lines of "Talking about music is like talking about fucking. Who wants to *talk* about it?" If this is true, it would have certainly appeared before EC's quote. On a Bears' promo CD that I have, Adrian Belew says, "Talking about music is like whistling about chickens." I think the date on that is 1988. I've also heard similar quotes from Donald Fagen and Robert Fripp. Don't know the dates on those, though. - -- Cheers! - -g- "The last time I paid that much for a beer, I got to lick it off a naked breast." - --Me, 1-3-02, after paying $4.30 for a pint of IPA at a local restaurant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:23:58 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Dancing about attributions on 1/8/02 4:13 PM, Chris Franz at chris_franz@hotmail.com wrote: >> Arguing about processor speed is like dancing about architecture. >> >> Many apologies to RH, >> -tc > > After seeing Tom's post, I got curious about the source of this line > ("Talking [or writing] about music is like dancing about architecture") -- > it turns out there's some degree of controversy on its origin. It's been > attributed to everyone from Robyn to Frank Zappa to Steve Martin, but the > most credible web source I've seen cites Elvis Costello as the originator in > a 1983 Musician Magazine interview. > > http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm > > How did Robyn get associated with this quote? > Could have something to do with my Gloster-like brain deficiency. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:45:42 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: previously discussed topic I once websearched for the "Writing about music is like..." quote and found it attributed to nine or 10 different people, spanning pop musicians, jazz musicians, actors.... There just *isn't* a definitive answer about who first said it. I believe Zappa was the most commonly cited source on the Web, for whatever that's worth. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:28:58 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Another Mere Mortal On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Redtailed Hawk wrote: > That is so funny. Sometimes the fans a phenomana attract are all you need to > know about the phenomana. Unfortunely I have also been exposed to the > trailer for ROTC, so I now know -more- than I need to know. I was actually hoping the trailer would contain an image of Jar Jar Binks just so I could boo loudly. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:33:51 -0800 From: "Chris Franz" Subject: Re: Dancing about attributions Max Lang: >I always thought it was a Laurie Anderson quote? The web page I cited links to a Laurie Anderson interview in which she claims to have heard it from Steve Martin. Glen Uber: >I thought John Lennon once said something along the lines of "Talking about >music is like talking about fucking. Who wants to *talk* about it?" If this >is true, it would have certainly appeared before EC's quote. Interesting. Perhaps it evolved from various earlier similes? Eb: >I once websearched for the "Writing about music is like..." quote and >found it attributed to nine or 10 different people, spanning pop >musicians, jazz musicians, actors.... There just *isn't* a definitive >answer about who first said it. I believe Zappa was the most commonly >cited source on the Web, for whatever that's worth. Well, the fact that you couldn't find a definitive source doesn't convince me that there just *isn't* one. I agree that Zappa is probably the most commonly cited source on the Web, and perhaps Costello was taking his cue from Frank when he was interviewed in 1983. It's such a memorable phrase that it has clearly been repeated many times over, and everyone in that chain has been mistakenly cited as the source at some time or other. But seeing EC's quote in a printed interview in 1983 carried a bit of weight with me. Tom: >Could have something to do with my Gloster-like brain deficiency. Many people are deficient of a Gloster-like brain -- hence we live in a world with lots of short hair, coherent sentences, and bad music. - - Chris ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V11 #9 ******************************