From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #442 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, November 29 2001 Volume 10 : Number 442 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [Fwd: Holy shit] [Eleanore Adams ] they are, aren't they? ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] re: Joyce [Eb ] Re: Robyn on Omnibus [Michael R Godwin ] Paging Peter Palmer ["Mike Wells" ] Re: Robyn on Omnibus ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: they are, aren't they? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] God vr a rejoycing Quail ["Redtailed Hawk" ] Kurdistan. Just a thought? [gSs ] Re: sllt [Aaron Mandel ] Re: they are, aren't they? ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: Dear Feg [bayard ] Re: sllt ["ross taylor" ] Re: Kurdistan. Just a thought? ["Fric Chaud" ] Re: Jennings [grutness@surf4nix.com] Omnibus: RRH on RKB ["Stewart C. Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:47:21 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: [Fwd: Holy shit] Oh my god - this web site is hilarious! Warning - there is stuff that may offend - but if you go to the contrib section, go to the site w the kitties - the contrast1 e Received: by tdl (mbox eleanore) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Tue Nov 27 20:22:01 2001) Received: from snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by tdl.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03973 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:23:52 -0800 Received: from loomer.com ([63.193.240.13]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GNG0029IW7SDD@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for eleanore@tdl.com; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:23:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:23:52 -0800 From: Hugh Caley Subject: Holy shit To: Eleanore Adams Message-id: <3C03BE18.8000004@loomer.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:0.9.6+) Gecko/20011127 X-From_: hcaley@loomer.com Tue Nov 27 08:23:52 2001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 http://goatse.cx/giver.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:11:29 -0800 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: they are, aren't they? What do you know -- those Mink Car tracks do sound pretty good on CD. I picked up a radio sampler (not for resale) for a quarter at a certain local music chain. I have to say that I never get tired of having to eat my words about music when the result is something new I can like. In other news, I can't believe I forgot that the Turin Brakes CD was from this year. That's going to score very high indeed on any top ten I might compile for this year. > From: Michael R Godwin > I confess to remaining a sceptic about JJ. The only book of his that I > have finished is POtAaaYM, which I thought was tedious in the extreme. But > I really like Flann O'Brien and Anthony Burgess, both of whom rate him > highly. I put him in that things-that-might-have-been-tremendously > significant-between-the-wars-but-don't-make-a-heck-of-a-lot-of-difference > - -nowadays box along with Orson Welles and Aldous Huxley. Am I missing a > treat? I really enjoyed Portrait, and enjoyed what little I could glean of Ulysses in the one (!!!) time I've read it so far. I own Dubliners but so far have only ever read "Araby" (which I didn't like as a high school senior, but might like better if I reread it today) and "The Dead." I also own Finnegan's Wake, but have not yet attempted it. Regarding the intricacy of Ulysses and FW: I tend to think that there is nothing universally "great" about it, merely monstrously and prodigiously clever. If Joyce is the finest writer of English that has ever published, it's not because he was able to produce a book that enchants scholars but is utterly impenetrable to 99% of the population. Quail's remarks about his pervasive influence are closer to the mark, I think. > "Countlessness of livestories have netherfallen by this plage, flick > as flowflakes, litters from aloft, like a waast wizzard all of > whirlworlds. Now are all tombed to the mound, isges to isges, erde > from erde . . . (Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, > what curious of signs (please stoop) in this allaphbed! Can you rede > (since We and Thou had it out already) its world? . . . Speak to us > of Emailia!" > --James Joyce, Finnegans Wake Didn't the Cocteau Twins set this to music? :) > Wizard is definitely spelt wrong (cf. Roy > Wood's W.). Suggestive of "blizzard"? Drew - -- http://www.stormgreen.com/ "You're living in a global shopping mall, and you're the only person who still thinks there's a bloody exit." - Edina Monsoon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:37:05 -0800 From: Eb Subject: re: Joyce Really loved Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist. Around my junior year of high school, I bought a clearance paperback of Ulysses at Crown Books for only $2.49. It's still on the shelf. One of these days.... I think I finalized my top-10 album list for 2001, tonight. Damn...is "24" intense or what? Almost as intense as the problems I've had logging on in the past 20 minutes. Nothing like getting connected at 2400 bps...whee. Eb, wondering how long he'll stay connected this time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:13:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Robyn on Omnibus On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > Omnibus is a TV show, yes? If so, if some nice Brit tapes it for us, I > can convert it to NTSC format for all the young fegs. I know that it > costs a fortune to have things converted, and that is why I have a > PAL/NTSC machine (I get lots of videos from England and Germany). If > there is much interest, maybe we could make a bit of a tree (not too many > sub-branches, though, because videotape does lose quality with each > generation - can't wait until we can burn our own DVDs). Really not worth it for Hitchcock fans. The subject of the 50-minute documentary is Syd Barrett, and Robyn only appears for a minute or two, sitting at a picnic table playing part of 'Dominoes' and talking briefly about Syd's songwriting style. On the other hand, if you are mainly a Syd Barrett person it is well worth seeing. My tape is low quality, though, because our main TV aerial is currently out of action. - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:27:59 -0600 From: "Mike Wells" Subject: Paging Peter Palmer Peter, if you're still onlist and want to trade email me at mwells@imageworksmfg.com or braneout@earthlink.net - your last email addy bounced. Michael "let's go clubbing - not" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:43:05 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Robyn on Omnibus Jill Brand wrote: > > Omnibus is a TV show, yes? If so, if some nice Brit tapes it for us, I > can convert it to NTSC format for all the young fegs. as Mike said, there's only a couple of minutes of our man. Once I get these TMBG CDs out the way, I can do you an audio sample of Robyn's bit. The picture's clear, but I have an oldish mono video. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:48:39 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: they are, aren't they? "Andrew D. Simchik" wrote: > > What do you know -- those Mink Car tracks do sound pretty good on CD. and they were really really good live at the weekend, too. > In other news, I can't believe I forgot that the Turin Brakes CD was > from this year. That's going to score very high indeed on any top ten > I might compile for this year. unfortunately, this arrived for me in the same batch as * Eels "Souljacker" * Of Montreal "Coquelicot Asleep in the Poppies" * TMBG "Mink Car" * Major Organ & The Adding Machine and an Apples in Stereo and a Olivia Tremor Control CD. I've listened to it a couple of times, and it's kind of not bad, but is somewhat pale compared to any of the rest. Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Senior Analyst Programmer stewart@ref.collins.co.uk Collins Dictionaries use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Bishopbriggs, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:55:50 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: sllt "Sllt. The nethermost deck of the first machine jogged forwards its flyboard with sllt the first batch of quirefolded papers. Sllt. Almost human the way it sllt to call attention. Doing its level best to speak. " - --jjoyce uulyssess I think Windows crashes on purpose sometimes. Thanks to Quail for defending Joyce, thanks to Godwin for provoking him to it. I think it's never too late to discover Joyce. I think Ulysses is *much* more approachable (& fun?) than F. Wake. Ulysses is just a day w/ nothing left out, and an interesting day too. And we really do think that way. F. Wake has beautiful, crazy language and I guess other dramatic elements, but it's kinda like trying to take in an art museum at 2500x magnification while on a four-way tab of acid. And you're not allowed to just groove on one room until you come down, if you do you've got to drop again & keep going until you finish the museum, which happens to be the Louvre. With Ulysses, on the other hand, it's quite possible to keep track of the beautiful love story(ies) involved, the local (& international) politics, the kinky sex -- it's all seen at high magnification too, but at a level where you can still tell what it is you're seeing a detail of. People throw stuff at each other. They smell the food cooking. Well, I have to confess, it appeals to me more than Hemingway or Raymond Carver. Oh, & I guess a glaringly obvious song is "ReJoyce" by Jefferson Airplane. - --- Kay's plot question-- Seems like this nicely points up how very little we really know about any other person. Sorta like the Henry James story, "In the Cage." She works in a telegraph office, taking messages thru bars or a wire mesh (cage). There's a very fascinating guy, above her in social class, & she gets a few glimpses of his life thru the notes he sends, even imagines some interest in herself, but he's got some shadowy (criminal?) trouble he's in. That provides the drama, but the big mystery is really the Other Person vs. Self. "hell is other people" "you might think you know your friends even when they're on a screen ..." "no I'll never understand you that's just not what people do they can talk and they can drivel til their memories are thru" - --- Stewart & Sonny Bono's 90 plus death-- Glad to hear someone in a publishing house saying these seditious things. Of course I'm at a firm that does some Intellectual Property work (sound of my teeth grinding). I think 90 plus death would have blocked Chaucer out of Boccaccio's work. Of course he could have written for permission, but I think things were very on-again off-again between England & Florence at that time. Also I bet Bono's rule would have kept Shakespeare out of at least a couple of his sources. Someone should do a list of derivative world- class art works that would have been unlikely under current rules. - --- Just discovered "Sun Rise" by Irish band Eire Apparent, from 1968, w/ major Jimi Hendrix guitar on almost every song. For me, it's a big Jimi discovery. Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:36:52 +0000 From: "Redtailed Hawk" Subject: God vr a rejoycing Quail Damn you two guys are good. A light, dosnt-take-itself too seriously, insightful, civil, roust-a-bout about culture. Love it. This is what I read Feg for. My position is smack in between you two. Frankly I read Joyce's prose as if it were poetry, in short bits. As such I love it. If I actually had to read more than 5 pages of Finnegans's Wake in one sitting I'd probobly either fall asleep or my brain would explode, I'm not sure which. I love his prose style, whether early or late. Like Lawrence and Hardy(great comedy team, eh?)--theres just something about the prose of that period. I wonder sometimes if it was one of those apogees for the English langauage. Stroke on, Kay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:14:09 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Kurdistan. Just a thought? by DAVID CORTRIGHT ......The oil-for-food program was never intended to be, and did not provide, the needed economic stimulus that alone could end the crisis in Iraq. But it was a bona fide effort by the Security Council to relieve humanitarian suffering. If the government of Iraq had accepted the program when it was first proposed, much of the suffering that occurred in the intervening years could have been avoided. The Security Council has steadily expanded the oil-for-food program. In 1998 it raised the limits on permitted oil sales, and in 1999 it removed the ceiling altogether. Production has risen to approximately 2.6 million barrels per day, levels approaching those before the Gulf War. Oil revenues during the last six months of 2000 reached nearly $10 billion. This is hardly what one would call an oil embargo. Oil exports are regulated, not prohibited. Funds are still controlled through the UN escrow account, with a nearly 30 percent deduction for war reparations and UN costs, but Baghdad has more than sufficient money to address continuing humanitarian needs. Said Secretary General Kofi Annan in his latest report, "With the improved funding level for the programme, the Government of Iraq is indeed in a position to address the nutritional and health concerns of the Iraqi people." Not only are additional revenues available, but the categories for which funds can be expended have been broadened to include oil production, power generation, water and sanitation, agriculture, transportation and telecommunications. The program is no longer simply an oil-for-food effort. The emphasis has shifted from simple humanitarian relief to broader economic assistance and the rebuilding of infrastructure...... The differential between child mortality rates in northern Iraq, where the UN manages the relief program, and in the south-center, where Saddam Hussein is in charge, says a great deal about relative responsibility for the continued crisis. As noted, child mortality rates have declined in the north but have more than doubled in the south-center. The difference is especially significant given the historical pattern prior to the Gulf War. In the 1970s child mortality rates in the northern Kurdish region were more than double those in the rest of the country. Today the situation is reversed, with child mortality rates in the south-center nearly double those in the north. The Kurdish zone has enjoyed a favored status in the relief program, with per capita allocations 22 percent higher than in the south-center. The region contains most of the country's rain-fed agriculture. Local authorities have welcomed the continuing efforts of private relief agencies, and have permitted a lively cross-border trade with surrounding countries. But these differences alone do not explain the stark contrast in mortality rates. The tens of thousands of excess deaths in the south-center, compared to the similarly sanctioned but UN-administered north, are also the result of Baghdad's failure to accept and properly manage the UN humanitarian relief effort. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011203&c=3&s=cortright ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:28:31 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: sllt On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, ross taylor wrote: > And you're not allowed to just groove on one > room until you come down, if you do you've got > to drop again & keep going until you finish > the museum, which happens to be the Louvre. I disagree -- Finnegans Wake is more episodic than many novels, and there can't be more than two people on the planet who'd think reading only part of it was a sign of particular irresoluteness. Of course, maybe I'm only saying this because I haven't finished it. But so far, I like it much better than Ulysses (and in fact I find it easier to appreciate, because the substratum of objective reality in Ulysses got me hung up trying to decode the parts I didn't get, while in FW I figure I'll live with the loss of nuance and keep moving when I hit a rough patch). a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:01:40 -0800 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: they are, aren't they? on 11/28/01 5:48 AM, Stewart C. Russell at stewart@ref.collins.co.uk wrote: > "Andrew D. Simchik" wrote: >> In other news, I can't believe I forgot that the Turin Brakes CD was >> from this year. That's going to score very high indeed on any top ten >> I might compile for this year. > > unfortunately, this arrived for me in the same batch as > > * Eels "Souljacker" > * Of Montreal "Coquelicot Asleep in the Poppies" > * TMBG "Mink Car" > * Major Organ & The Adding Machine > > and an Apples in Stereo and a Olivia Tremor Control CD. I've listened to > it a couple of times, and it's kind of not bad, but is somewhat pale > compared to any of the rest. For a while I thought you were saying that Mink Car arrived in that same batch and seemed kind of pale, but then the ol' reading comprehension kicked in. I don't know Major Organ, but the rest of those bands all fall into a certain category for me, and aren't really doing anything remotely similar to what Turin Brakes are doing. That might have colored your reaction, especially since apparently you don't have the Elephant 6 allergy that I have. I'll be the first to admit that Turin Brakes are not exactly breaking new musical ground (being basically a sepia-tinted Coldplay, who themselves are a sandpapered, watered-down pop-take on Jeff Buckley via Radiohead), but their disc wants to stay on repeat whenever it climbs into my player, which is often. I'll also admit that this is not necessarily an indicator of relative quality, but to contrast, I've only listened to the Nick Cave and Bjork albums maybe three times each since I bought them. Drew - -- http://www.stormgreen.com/ "You're living in a global shopping mall, and you're the only person who still thinks there's a bloody exit." - Edina Monsoon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: bayard Subject: Re: Dear Feg heh... i thought you meant one of your real-life plots! who would have thought it would take Fric to set me straight? I thought you were asking for advice from Miss Feglyhearts! =b On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Redtailed Hawk wrote: > A man's life of any worth is a continual allegory. > John Keats > > > Dear Feg, > > Im abit frustrated with one of my plots. Any suggestions are very welcome. > > Theres a male and female who sorta circle around each other but so far don't > land. The female I've got abit of a handle on--she's shy with certain > people, has bad eyesight and constantly doubts her own perceptions. It takes > her awhile to process stuff. She wants to talk to the guy, who always seems > to just appear out of the blue and then be gone. But he keeps reappearing, > or people who are his double do(theres always that possibility), and she's > puzzled, disappointed, hurt, angry, puzzled, sad, amused, bemused and, did I > mention, puzzled? For one thing, she dosn't really know where the guy is > coming from. Is it a cheap thrill to play with her mind? And if so--why? > She's pretty unaveragly average. Is he trying to make contact and having a > difficult time of it? What's going on? > > My imagination has blown a fuse. > > Some of you are guys out there. And some of you are females who understand > guys(well, at least better than I do)--so, > any suggestions for either action or motivation? > > Kay, typing away > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > - -- http://glasshotel.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:35:48 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: Re: sllt On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:28:31 Aaron Mandel wrote: >I disagree -- Finnegans Wake is more episodic than many novels, and there >can't be more than two people on the planet who'd think reading only part >of it was a sign of particular irresoluteness. > >Of course, maybe I'm only saying this because I haven't finished it. But >so far, I like it much better than Ulysses (and in fact I find it easier >to appreciate, because the substratum of objective reality in Ulysses got >me hung up trying to decode the parts I didn't get, while in FW I figure >I'll live with the loss of nuance and keep moving when I hit a rough >patch). I haven't Finnished it either, it's been several years now. Everyone I know who's tackled it has either hurled it down "Bah! Modernism!" or finished it, treated it as a right of passage & done something like join an organization devoted to it. If people dipped into it the way more people seem to w/ Ezra Pound's Cantos I'd like it better. I don't think I've every seen a chunk of it reprinted separately. Ross Taylor moo cow Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:57:47 -0500 From: "Fric Chaud" Subject: Re: Kurdistan. Just a thought? Rock on, fegmaniax! Angela, they put you in prison Angela, they shot down your man ANgela, you're one of the millions of political prisoners in the world. Sister, there's a wind that never dies Sister, we're breathing together Sister, our love and hopes forever keep on moving oh so slowly in the world. Angela, can you hear the earth is turning? Angela, the world watches you. Angela, you soon will be returning to your sisters and brothers of the world. Sister, you're still a people teacher Sister, your word reaches far Sister, there's a million different races but we all share the same future in the world. They gave you sunshine They gave you sea They gave you everything but the jailhouse key They gave you coffee They gave you tea They gave you everything but equality - -- Fric Chaud ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:49:33 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com Subject: Re: Jennings >PS On the Jennings front: Jennings to Robyn Hitchcock in 3: >Jennings was played by Jimmy Page on TV (all facts korrekt for a change); >Jimmy Page played the solo on Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' (I think); >Robyn Hitchcock has appeared on the Mountain Stage with Donovan. >QED! Waylon or Pat? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= .-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= You talk to me as if from a distance =-.-=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:41:27 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Omnibus: RRH on RKB Robyn's bit from Saturday's BBC Omnibus program is here: http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/omnibus.ogg Robyn sings "Dominoes", and discusses the album Barrett. As my editing skills (and tools) are rudimentary, there are also the voices of Kirsty Wark (presenter), and Duggie Fields (artist, RKB's flatmate, still living in the flat where the Madcap Laughs cover was taken). 'Scuse the somewhat maculate recording; it's through an analogue connection from minidisc from a connection to an old TV connected to an old mono video. Oh, and part of the bandwidth involved a floppy disk carried along the canal towpath on a bike (with a basket, and bell that rings, and things that [I think] make it look good). http://www.vorbis.com/ is where to go if you haven't yet got an Ogg Vorbis player. It's done not badly to squish 4'27" of audio into 1.23MB. Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Senior Analyst Programmer stewart@ref.collins.co.uk Collins Dictionaries use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Bishopbriggs, Scotland ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #442 ********************************