From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #409 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, October 28 2001 Volume 10 : Number 409 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing ["jbranscombe@compuserv] Re: Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing [The Great Quail ] Re: This American Life [Capuchin ] Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) [Christopher Gross ] Re: This American Life [] Re: iPod Announced [Capuchin ] Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) [Capuchin ] Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) [] i slept all day and i forgot to say... [bayard ] Re: Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing ["lucifersam" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:48:33 -0400 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing So, Charles, the Palestinians have got 95% of a state? jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:02:12 -0700 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing Hey, British friends, What does "whingeing" mean? And how is it pronounced? I have always wondered.... Off to see U2 in about three hours!!!!, - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > Even so, most of the points of disagreement that sank the peace deal > had to do with quibbles over exactly where the border between Israel > and the Palestinian state would be. These are hardly fundamental > moral questions, and I don't see why even Palestinian supporters > should think it's wrong for them to compromise on this or that > three-hectare slice of ground. It's EXACTLY like the argument about the bully taking your lunch. Do you let him keep the banana (or whatever) just to get him off your back or do you stand up for your self and fight to get your WHOLE lunch back? That IS a fundamental moral question. It's no longer just about a banana. > Finally, just a practical matter: to have an agreement on anything, > both sides have to give each other something they want (or else one > has to be able to force the other to give in). I mentioned exactly that to Viv last night (as she was drifting off to sleep). The Palestinians don't have anything to offer BUT peace. Their only bargaining chip is violence because the Israelis are holding all the cards. If the Palestinians give peace, they are giving EVERYTHING they have to bargain with and the Israelis still aren't giving everything they can. It's inherently imbalanced. > Refusal to compromise indicates, if not a lack of desire for peace, at > least an impractical attitude towards getting it. And this is where morality overrides pragmatism... just like in the lunch case. _You_ just might let the bully keep the banana in order to get SOME of your lunch back and avoid conflict. And that's certainly the pragmatist's solution. But it still means losing something that you shouldn't have to lose. And eventually you stand up against the tithe. > You might think Israel deserves nothing. I look at the Israeli state the same way I look at Pat Buchannan's involvement with the Reform Party. Basically, they brought an overwhelming majority of like-minded people in and took over without real concern for the majority of the people that were already there. > Nevertheless, it stands to reason that the Palestinians will still > have to give Israel *something* if they want peace. That's just it. The Palestinians want peace, land, self-rule, etc. They've prioritized and peace comes lower than the others. I can understand that. > For example, giving Israel the slightest reason to think that an > independent Palestinian state would be a peaceful neighbor might be a > good place to start.... Well, then it seems Israel's best bet would be to give the Palestinian state whatever it wants. I honestly think the only reason Israel didn't do that in the first place was to "show strength" or "not give in to their demands" on misguided principle. Sort of like the way the US is blowing the shit out of Afghanistan instead of considering the causes of the attacks and working to reverse those trends. They looked at the demands and said, "Yeah, we can do all of these. But if we did, that'd be a sign of weakness and they'd think they can push us around. So we'll trim something trivial off and call it a compromise to show we still have some power at the bargaining table." J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: This American Life Anyone else here "I Something You" at the end of This American Life today? Jill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: This American Life On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > Anyone else here "I Something You" at the end of This American Life > today? What's "This American Life"? J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:11:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > I mentioned exactly that to Viv last night (as she was drifting off to > sleep). The Palestinians don't have anything to offer BUT peace. Their > only bargaining chip is violence because the Israelis are holding all the > cards. > > If the Palestinians give peace, they are giving EVERYTHING they have to > bargain with and the Israelis still aren't giving everything they > can. It's inherently imbalanced. Okay, so what specifically do you think Israel should give, beyond what they've already offered, so that the Palestinians will make peace? Though I have no idea why I'm discussing this today. These discussions are best carried on by bored office workers. Right now I'm wasting my *own* time, not the library's! - --foolish Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:18:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: iPod Announced On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > That IS weird. > > Is it possible that the comment information is the CD ID key? Could be. I have no idea what CD ID keys look like; the stuff in the comment boxes is a long string of numbers and a few letters, punctuated by the occasional plus sign. Anyway, IMO the weirdest part is that it only shows up in CDs ripped on one machine, not another, even though both machines are running the same software. > Of course, you SHOULD just be sending a hang-up (SIGHUP: `kill -HUP` or > `kill -1`). But where's the fun in that? It doesn't sound as cool. "kill -9" sounds like the kind of Unix command that James Bond would use. (I got into using kill-9 years ago, on my last gwu.edu account, when sometimes trn would lock up and ordinary kill wouldn't kill it. kill -9 always got the job done. Now it's time to log off and have Halloween fun! Or dinner, at least. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:32:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: This American Life On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > > Anyone else here "I Something You" at the end of This American Life > > today? > > What's "This American Life"? Christ, Jeme! If you arent careful they are gonna kick you out of Portland for not living up to the northwest public radio listening latee sipping stereotype. "This American Life" is an NPR essay program. www.thisamericanlife.org I something you follwed an essay on how if we didnt have the word love our language would be much richer and diverse. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Life boring when you no can die" -Solomon Grundy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:55:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: iPod Announced On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > I have no idea what CD ID keys look like; the stuff in the comment > boxes is a long string of numbers and a few letters, punctuated by the > occasional plus sign. Yeah, that could be the disc ID. > Anyway, IMO the weirdest part is that it only shows up in CDs ripped > on one machine, not another, even though both machines are running the > same software. It's probably the difference in disc drives themselves. One drive has a firmware that tells it to supply ID info and the other does not. Or (if it's not the disc ID) it could be that one drive is supplying extraneous information of some other sort and the software doesn't know what to do with it so it shunts it to the comments field. > > Of course, you SHOULD just be sending a hang-up (SIGHUP: `kill -HUP` or > > `kill -1`). > > But where's the fun in that? It doesn't sound as cool. Well, I DID say that `kill -SEGV` does sound pretty cool... as does `kill -TERM`. > Now it's time to log off and have Halloween fun! Or dinner, at least. Viv's hurt her back and we may well be stuck at home and miss all the parties. Poopyshoes. Wish her well. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > Okay, so what specifically do you think Israel should give, beyond > what they've already offered, so that the Palestinians will make > peace? The other 5%. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:57:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: This American Life On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 ringostr@u.washington.edu wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > > > Anyone else here "I Something You" at the end of This American Life > > > today? > > What's "This American Life"? > > Christ, Jeme! If you arent careful they are gonna kick you out of > Portland for not living up to the northwest public radio listening > latee sipping stereotype. I don't drink coffee and I don't listen to the radio or watch TV. Sue me. (You sure you're not thinking of the Seattle stereotype?) > "This American Life" is an NPR essay program. > www.thisamericanlife.org Ah. > I something you follwed an essay on how if we didnt have the word love > our language would be much richer and diverse. Right. My friend Rachel once said to me, "I hate saying that I LOVE you... it doesn't seem to cover it. I mean, I LOVE ice cream." J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > > Okay, so what specifically do you think Israel should give, beyond > > what they've already offered, so that the Palestinians will make > > peace? > > The other 5%. what kind of negotiation is that? Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Life boring when you no can die" -Solomon Grundy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Oh, hell, not Israel again. (was Re: infidels) On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 ringostr@u.washington.edu wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Capuchin wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > Okay, so what specifically do you think Israel should give, beyond > > > what they've already offered, so that the Palestinians will make > > > peace? > > The other 5%. > what kind of negotiation is that? The just kind. Are you saying the Palestinians should pad their list of needs with a bunch of unnecessary bullshit just so they can pretend to give something up in "negotiations"? It really does seem to me that the Isralis didn't give them everything just so they could say that they didn't give them everything. Posturing and egotism. It's all very juvenile. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:05:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "she.rex" Subject: Fegbooks updates Hello again! Just updated Fegbooks a couple of times this week. At least we're into 2001 now - Yay! A few recommendations of my own: Lewis Carroll: I have a facsimile edition of the original "Alice's Adventures Under Ground" (bought it when it first came out, around 1985). He wrote "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass later, building on the first book". The facsimile edition is in his own handwriting with his own illustrations - a copy of the original Christmas gift to Alice Liddell - lovely! I also have "The Annotated Alice", "The More Annotated Alice", and "The Complete Alice in Wonderland" audio recording (a set of tapes) read by Christopher Plummer. "The More Annotated Alice" is a large coffee table book with illustrations from many different artists from over the years, and includes some extra short stories and poems. I highly recommend it. Checked out Garcia Marquez' Of Love and Other Demons on audiobook from the library. Natasha Richardson read it and his words and her performance were an awesome combination! Highly recommended. I copied it so I can listen again without depriving others while I have it. A friend lent me Love in the Time of Cholera, but I have yet to read it. I got embarassed keeping it so long, so I made it a project for my new scanner and put it in my palmtop to read later and gave her back her book. I bought 100 Years of Solitude, which is supposed to be his best, at the used book store and am looking forward to reading it. My dad and I share some reading interests and have traded books since I was a young teenager. We are both reading Jack Whyte's King Arthur books - The Camulod Chronicles - now, which attempt to construct the story as it could have happened, sans magic. Interesting and entertaining, but not "higher" reading. Still, I am enjoying it a lot as I get deeper into the story and see the seeds of legends being planted retroactively. He has made this his life's work and put loads of research into it, yet condensed it enough to keep it from getting boring. Recommended if you are into Arthur/Merlyn/Camelot - some of the books are narrated by Merlyn. The series has five books in it to date, "The Skystone", "The Singing Sword", "The Eagle's Brood", "The Saxon Shore", and "The Fort At River's Bend" - I'm in the latest, which begins with Merlyn taking a young Arthur (about 8 or so - have to look to be sure) to an isolated fort after an attempt on his life. Haven't read far yet, so don't know how far the story progresses by the end of the book. The hard part now will be waiting for the next one in the series, since I have read all these in the past few months, one after the other. That's the difficulty in starting an unfinished set... I've been spacing the reading out with a couple of books on dry history that try to place who Arthur really was, but Whyte is much more fun. Will go to the legends themselves next, which should be much better - looking forward to that. My deep reading, the stuff that has to be digested as someone put it (Bacon?), follows a pattern - surreal, sensual in the sense of causing one to experience the senses written about in a very visceral way, things that you don't read too fast and when you put the book down, you experience the world around you with heightened awareness for several hours, or days if it is a novel and you keep reading. Mark Helprin is like this for me - I read a chapter or just a few pages and must put it down and absorb for a while - and it's a wonderful, addictive feeling. Borges and Neruda and Garcia Marquez are also in this category. I was reading Borges' "The Unending Gift" the other day and thought it would be a cool thing to make a niche somewhere, like in a garden or a room, a space all set up for a statue or painting or other piece of art to be displayed and contemplated - except the space itself would be empty, playing on the principle of the poem. Maybe, for the benefit of others, the poem itself would be somewhere inconspicuous until one got right up to it to read it. And after that, they would cross the room again and sit contemplating that space, this time filling it with whatever their mind conjures up, and it would be different every time (I hope). A relaxing mental exercise, no? Since we were discussing children's books that influenced us (yes I know I'm very late), I wanted to put in my own plugs for "The Rescuers" by Margery Sharp (five books altogether) and "The Borrowers" by Mary Norton (three of these) (thanks, Kay, for reminding me!), and the Mary Poppins books (three again) by P.L. Travers. (She.Rex). The heroes of the first two series are very small and fighting overwhelming odds in a big world, a lot like children have to. The latter turns reality on its head, thus expanding the mind. If you have only seen the Disney movie - which was great, don't get me wrong - there was of course much more to the books and I really enjoyed them as a kid. And how could we have forgotten the Oz books, with all their bizarre, nearly undying characters? No one could die in Oz, not even inanimate things that were brought to life by magic powders or whatever, like the sawhorse and Jack Pumpkinhead, but they could be horribly changed sometimes. It was a bit freaky really, but very cool. (What about the princess who had a huge collection of heads, each with a different personality, so depending on which one she put on that day, she would be a whole other person?) There were about fourteen of these, and then Baum's daughter wrote several more, but I never read those. Have the complete set of the originals, though. Very feggish, indeed, methinks. Madeleine L'Engle (who writes for adults as well as teens - her best-known books are the Wrinkle in Time trilogy) and Frances Hodgson Burnett got me through many difficult hours, too. I read "The Secret Garden" and "A Little Princess" countless times growing up, and without fail every time I was home sick in bed. They always made me feel better and either could be finished in a day. The former probably has something to do with my gardening obsession now. (Didn't know about Little Lord Fauntleroy and could have left him out anyway. Bleh.) L'Engle also writes non-fiction and just released "Reflections on a Writing Life." I also grew up on fairy tales and still read and collect them. George MacDonald wrote cool fairy tales, but really they are above the heads of your average children - I am sure they were really written for adults. Didn't know about filk, but love folk music and have some based on characters from favorite classics and fairy tales. I have a tape by Meg Davis based on Alice in Wonderland - some of the songs are original, but most are Carroll's poems set to music. She has a lovely voice. I especially like the song the baked pudding sings on the platter. Another tape is of Leslie Fish and based on Rudyard Kipling's books - don't remember this one well at all, but they seemed very serious. :) These don't really qualify, do they? But on reflection, I bet I have something that does. One tape of Frank Hayes called Don't Ask. Liked a few of the songs - considered them "novelty" tunes - Cockroaches On Parade, Little Fuzzy Animals / Little Fuzzy Characters, Vegetate, and Never Set the Cat On Fire. Vegetate was sung to the tune of a Beach Boys song. And yes, the rest was crap. Got it at Stellar Bookseller, along with the two above. That was a great little place by my house that sold SciFi, Fantasy and fairy tales. Also got special imported softcover books of Russian fairy tales, beautifully illustrated, with Russian and English text there - that kind of thing. I miss that store! It's been gone maybe ten years now. Hard to find places like that anymore. Well this is way long and rambling, so I'll stop now. Nice to see Quail back again! And Eddie, too - haven't heard much from you lately. She.Rex - ------------------ Saw a face in a conical of lace, it was a strange orchestra Mannikin skin pounding on a bass-drum, strange orchestra Lillipution, evil in the eyes of the man with the leaf harp He lusts for the urchin hiding under mountains of moleskin A big cat like t-tyrannosaurus going to Lilliput The ensemble make a tiny rumble, the celloist solos The sky blackens and the bass string slackens and they stand statuesquely Then they giggle and they wiggle through the door in the big dark oak tree Do do do do-de-do do do Strange orchestras Do do do do-de-do do do Strange orchestras - -- T.Rex, "Strange Orchestras", from "My People Were Fair and Had Sky in Their Hair, But Now They're Content to Wear Stars in Their Beards" 1968 Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 23:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: i slept all day and i forgot to say... happy birthday, chris! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:28:53 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Yeah, those towel-heads had better stop whingeing Most people would consider this to be something to 'whinge' about... - ----- Original Message ----- From: The Great Quail > Off to see U2 in about three hours!!!!, > > --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:55:32 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: iPod Announced On Fri, Oct 26, 2001, Capuchin wrote: > > I like the "kill -9" command. Somehow it sounds so much more serious > > than just "kill." (Not sure if it works on OS X's version of Unix.) > > It _should_ take all the standard switches. I believe it's the BSD > implementation of procps. Mac OS X's unix is called Darwin. Just another BSD. Should be like just getting used to another BSD. > Of course, you SHOULD just be sending a hang-up (SIGHUP: `kill -HUP` or > `kill -1`). Yeah, but that's just wishful thinking sometimes. :) - -Ken ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #409 ********************************