From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #394 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, October 15 2001 Volume 10 : Number 394 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Halloween music [Marshall Needleman Armintor ] RE: Halloween music ["da9ve stovall" ] Roxy Music trainspotting [Eb ] Speakerz: this bounced. I'm trying again.... [] Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #393 - Halloween Music ["The Rooneys" ] halloween music con't [Eclipse ] message keeps bouncing... speakerz [] Bad news for UK ghosts ["Rob" ] halloween music, kind of ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: Halloween music ["bert is NOT evil" ] RE: Halloween music [Daniel Robert Saunders ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:50:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Marshall Needleman Armintor Subject: Halloween music <> Damn straight. It took some heavy Gnutella use on my part to re-discover the Misfits. I had a friend in high school who was into punk/experimental/extreme music (Test Dept., Einsturzende, Z'ev, Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV, etc.) entirely for the shock value. He didn't really, as such, appreciate what he was listening to. As a result of raving about how extreme and shocking the Misfits were, and from just experiencing Danzing in his operatic/metal phase with the eponymous band, I just assumed that the Misfits were a pathetic joke. Nothing could be further from the truth. They were, when not being expert gutter-punk rockers, a mighty New Jersey white-boy soul band in the vein of the Rascals and the E Street Band, and stuff like "Where Eagles Dare" and "Attitude" attest to that. Great band. Also, the Cramps, and of course, Bauhaus. I'm rediscovering them as well. They pale in comparison (no joke intended) to the likes of Joy Divison and the Birthday Party, but they were pretty damn tight as a band, and had more going on than most rock crit-types would give them credit for. Also, they did really have a sense of humor, however spotty ("Exquisite Corpse", "Of Lillies and Remains," although the latter is closer to self-parody). marshall np _Metal Box_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:20:26 -0700 From: "da9ve stovall" Subject: RE: Halloween music >But my all-time favorite has to be a little ditty - can't >remember the artist - found on one of Dr. Demento's old >discs call "I'm a Were-cow." >Michael >"moo, moo, moo" Flippy T. Fishhead, I believe. Other Halloween music: John Zorn: well, lots of stuff, but especially the _Elegy_ album. First time I listened to that disc I was home alone at night, and I ended up having to turn on all the lights and walk around the house intoning "la la la happy happy happy there's no one lurking in the shadows happy happy happy la la la" until the initial visceral terror subsided. No words on it, just scary instruments and sounds. da9ve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:35:47 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Roxy Music trainspotting I was just listening to the new Virgin issue of Roxy Music's Country Life. These remasters really *do* sound a lot better than the old Reprise versions. The "remastered" thing isn't just an empty marketing ploy. However...about two-thirds through the album, I noticed that the CD's back insert switches the credits! It lists PAUL THOMPSON as playing guitar, and Phil Manzanera as playing DRUMS!!! And yes, this mistake doesn't occur on the Reprise pressing. Jeeeeeez. Major demerits to the Virgin art department! Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:33:20 +0000 From: Subject: Speakerz: this bounced. I'm trying again.... Please forgive me and ignore this if the subject has been adequately covered. There are a lot of respectable opinions on the list. Here is mine: Your speakers should be matched to your listening environment. The better/larger your listening environ, the better your components should be. Strangely, the smallest/worst listening environments may scream for better speakers, but you just can't utilize the sonic advantages due to distances. The object is to have _FLAT_ response curves, so that music comes at you with the intended colorations of the engineer and producer. A ridiculous buzz phrase is DC to light, but it is useful to illustrate how listening works. An ear cannot adequately give the brain information on frequencies below about 30 HZ, but a body can _feel_ 7 HZ (this is one of those things that the FBI likes to use to make people in stand-offs lose their bowels- unfortunately, this also can stop a cat's heart, so you have to be careful about application.) Likewise, the older you get- mostly due to environmental reasons, like noise and listening to LOUD music- the less able you are to _hear_ frequencies above about 16 KHZ. Even among persons who cannot hear those frequencies, hundreds of tests have shown that people can detect the absense of those upper frequencies. FYI: Most consumer gear does not have a flat frequency response. They boost highs and lows. This is incredibly stupid. You can eq your stereo that way, but it really upwardly fux everything if you can't ever get back to flat if it is by default. I would stay categorically away from mini systems, since they cannot produce all frequencies well and certainly can't sound very good trying. I've noticed that the high bass/low midrange areas are extremely murky with these systems. The next thing is SOUND. There is something that conventional measurements do not provide in the specs of speakers. It is called sound. If a Yamaha component says it is flat from 12 HZ to 40 KHZ, why does a different brand sound better, even when the response or curve isn't as flat? Some things spec waaaaaaay better than they sound. Part of this is moving air and part is how the box itself colors sound. Some is just what it does to the sound field and the imaging: how the speakers interact with each other and the environment to surround the listener. Another issue is the interaction between components. Bose and other makes put some serious demands on your other components. If you do the math on power conversion, this becomes staggering. Consider a Klipsch Lascala's efficiency of 104 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 Meter. I would guess a Bose is in the area of 80 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 Meter. The way power/decibels (db) works is that you double the power a speaker uses for every 3 db of output- so, this means that if you want to drive a Bose at the level of the Klipsch you need 256 Watts (vs 1 Watt.) Considering headroom, the Klipsch should be driven by a 20+ Watt amp, so should you get a 5200 Watt amp for the Boses? Okay, maybe the boses are 88 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 meter, but they need to be driven by a much bigger amp, and that girth in quality is a lot harder to come by in price. You will destroy your speakers if you max out your amp in driving them unless you have a tube amp which will clip softly enough to avoid those square waves that will tear your speaker cones apart. If money is not a big object, consider tower speakers by dynaudio. They are extremely flat and they have good broad spectrum reproduction. They have good sub woofers available too, and would make a great complimentary system. If you want to use what recording studios use, you might try their pro line Dynaudio Acoustics or the Genelec brand- some even come powered, so you don't have to deal with speaker cable or trying to match amps to speakers, etc. If the room is large, I still really like the Klipsch Lascalas and Kornerhorns. When fed by a smooth, clean amp, of course a tube Mcintosh or a Manley triode tube amp can bring about a spiritual experience, but a non-harsh solid state amp, like an older Hafler or maybe a really good Carver would work well. If you supplement these with a good subwoofer, you can get a very flat response very low. Klipsch violates the DC to light in the sense that they start to fall off at about 17.5K, but they sound great doing it. Subs: I think Velodyne, Dynaudio, Dynaudio Acoustics, Sunfire, and Bag End make great subs (stay out of Velodyne's cheap line.) Of less expensive fare, I've always been impressed by Polk Audio and Boston Accoustics speakers. Be selective, but here are some other brands that I respect and own or have owned: Tannoy, JBL, KRK. Mostly just studio stuff, though. One thing should be said for surround listening: your left, center, and right speakers should be from the same line of the same manufacturer. This keeps the voices sounding the same when they pan across. It is less important with the rear speakers. I have been to theatres where people change their voices entirely in the center channel. The last thing is that you should listen to your prospective speakers in the most similar environment to your own as possible. Especially using CD's you know extremely well. Bring a few that describe the entire audio spectrum and style pallets that you enjoy. This will give you the least number of surprises when you get them home. Was it Count Basie, whose words should drive all of our musical listening criteria: "If it sounds good it is good!" Let _your_ ears tell you. Wish ya all the best! Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:36:19 -0600 From: "The Rooneys" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #393 - Halloween Music > Subject: Re: Halloween music I think the Legendary Pink Dots (Hellsville, Hellowe'en, et al) really capture the season. - - Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:05:35 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: molotov cocktail > Our condo got hit with a molotov cocktail. i live in an almost all asian > building. i live in the Bay area. This nationalist patriot racism is > such bullshit. No one got hurt, but we got property damage. the US needs to look at terrorism at home, by its own people, as much as it needs to look overseas. Glad to hear you're OK. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:12:47 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: hallowe'en >Soon we will be coming up on Halloween... Ships don't disappear in the night (10 cc) Day of the dead (the Church) Don't fear the reaper (Blue oyster cult - or the Mutton Birds version :) Pink frost (the Chills) Echoes (Pink Floyd) >songs >with an autumnal feel (or maybe a springtime feel for you Aussies and >Kiwis?), and songs that are just plain spooky. All genres are welcome; >it'd be neat to find, say, a ska song or cool jazz tune with a Halloween >feel. >If you want some really "spooky" ambient music, check out just about any >album by composer Harold Budd. The White Arcades is heartily recommended, althought he spookiest is The Serpent in Quicksilver/Abandoned Cities. >As far as "autumnal" stuff goes, David Sylvian's song "September" always >puts me in a Fall mood. XTC have a lot of Autumnal music: much of the latter half of Skylarking (especially Sacrificial Bonfire, which is very apt for the whole Samhain season[1]), "Deliver us from the elements", and "Harvest Festival" to start with. Our own RH's collection is extremely Autumnal (large swadges of Y&O, Eye, and IODOT are very autumnal). The second half of Eno's "Before and after science" is also very autumnal. >They Might Be Giants: >Hall Of Heads Meet James Ensor >Erie Green Storm Lantern ah. One of his Great Lakes songs! ;) >- -Shriekback's "Nemesis" always sounded like a Halloween party song to me, >even disregarding the lyrics as do several of their others. Then there's Danielle Dax, too. And surely some of Laughin' Nick Cave deserves to go into the mix somewhere. As for down here, it's spring, so the first half of Skylarking gets played a lot, as does the XTC song Green Man, and Paul Simon's "There goes rhymin' Simon", which always has a spring feel to me. And of course "Spring spring spring" by messrs Oddie, Garden, and Brooke-Taylor. >Gotta say, from a Brit (London) point of view. I find Halloween to be a pain >in the friggin arse.Spotty little shits banging on your door demanding dosh >or other stuff. Throw a bowl of dish water at the little bastards i say ... hear hear! The whole idea of Hallowe'en as a fun holiday pisses me off a bit - it an important religious week after all. People going round trick or treating in late March dressed as a crucifix would be seen as anti-religious, but this is pretty much the same thing. Also the nongs down here seem to think that Hallowe'en should still be celebrated at the end of October, which is crazy. Samhain is the end of April in the Southern Hemisphere - we should be celebrating the start of spring here. James [1] Samhain (pronounced sowain) lasts a week, starts with a welcoming in of the spirits of the newly departed, and ends with a sacrificial fire (usually simply a bonfire with effigies) to hasten the return of spring. In modern 'Christian' society, Hallowe'en is followed a week later by Guy Fawkes night. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:12:54 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Church >> Man, did you guys really tell me that STARFISH and GOLD AFTERNOON FIX >> were the worst Church albums? my favourites would be the Blurred Crusade, Heyday, and Priest = Aura . And yes, GAF and Starfish are very low on the list. >> I'm trying to listen to what the >> compilation calls "the best of the Church," and five songs in I can't for >> the life of me see what could have been so great about those first few >> albums. hm... perhaps we look for different things in Church albums. I'd be intersted to know which songs though >> That terrific atmosphere (that "goth" element Eb used to tease me >> about fetishizing) hasn't made any appearance yet, and that's what I >> really am coming to appreciate about these guys. ah. If you want their more goth sound you need to look for later albums then. That wasn't the way your original message came across. Priest=Aura would be far more to your taste than Heyday if you want 'goth atmosphere'. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:26:35 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Seattle show pix. Does anybody have pictures from the Seattle show(or scansof ticket stubbs)? Thanks, Max _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eclipse Subject: halloween music con't can't believe i (or anyone else, for that matter) didn't mention Dead Can Dance; back in college, when i was still an active pagan, no Samhain would've been complete without "Spleen and Ideal" or "Within the Realm of a Dying Sun". Lisa Gerrard's spectacular solo albums are also well-suited to the season. :) merrily, Eclipse - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Eclipse | eclipse@best.com If this is not what you expected, please alter your expectations. "i guess one person can make a difference - but most of the time, they probably shouldn't." - Marge Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:41:34 +0000 From: Subject: message keeps bouncing... speakerz Please forgive me and ignore this if the subject has been adequately covered. There are a lot of respectable opinions on the list. Here is mine: Your speakers should be matched to your listening environment. The better/larger your listening environ, the better your components should be. Strangely, the smallest/worst listening environments may scream for better speakers, but you just can't utilize the sonic advantages due to distances. The object is to have _FLAT_ response curves, so that music comes at you with the intended colorations of the engineer and producer. A ridiculous buzz phrase is DC to light, but it is useful to illustrate how listening works. An ear cannot adequately give the brain information on frequencies below about 30 HZ, but a body can _feel_ 7 HZ (this is one of those things that the FBI likes to use to make people in stand-offs lose their bowels- unfortunately, this also can stop a cat's heart, so you have to be careful about application.) Likewise, the older you get- mostly due to environmental reasons, like noise and listening to LOUD music- the less able you are to _hear_ frequencies above about 16 KHZ. Even among persons who cannot hear those frequencies, hundreds of tests have shown that people can detect the absense of those upper frequencies. FYI: Most consumer gear does not have a flat frequency response. They boost highs and lows. This is incredibly stupid. You can eq your stereo that way, but it really upwardly fux everything if you can't ever get back to flat if it is by default. I would stay categorically away from mini systems, since they cannot produce all frequencies well and certainly can't sound very good trying. I've noticed that the high bass/low midrange areas are extremely murky with these systems. The next thing is SOUND. There is something that conventional measurements do not provide in the specs of speakers. It is called sound. If a Yamaha component says it is flat from 12 HZ to 40 KHZ, why does a different brand sound better, even when the response or curve isn't as flat? Some things spec waaaaaaay better than they sound. Part of this is moving air and part is how the box itself colors sound. Some is just what it does to the sound field and the imaging: how the speakers interact with each other and the environment to surround the listener. Another issue is the interaction between components. Bose and other makes put some serious demands on your other components. If you do the math on power conversion, this becomes staggering. Consider a Klipsch Lascala's efficiency of 104 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 Meter. I would guess a Bose is in the area of 80 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 Meter. The way power/decibels (db) works is that you double the power a speaker uses for every 3 db of output- so, this means that if you want to drive a Bose at the level of the Klipsch you need 256 Watts (vs 1 Watt.) Considering headroom, the Klipsch should be driven by a 20+ Watt amp, so should you get a 5200 Watt amp for the Boses? Okay, maybe the boses are 88 db @ 1 Watt @ 1 meter, but they need to be driven by a much bigger amp, and that girth in quality is a lot harder to come by in price. You will destroy your speakers if you max out your amp in driving them unless you have a tube amp which will clip softly enough to avoid those square waves that will tear your speaker cones apart. If money is not a big object, consider tower speakers by dynaudio. They are extremely flat and they have good broad spectrum reproduction. They have good sub woofers available too, and would make a great complimentary system. If you want to use what recording studios use, you might try their pro line Dynaudio Acoustics or the Genelec brand- some even come powered, so you don't have to deal with speaker cable or trying to match amps to speakers, etc. If the room is large, I still really like the Klipsch Lascalas and Kornerhorns. When fed by a smooth, clean amp, of course a tube Mcintosh or a Manley triode tube amp can bring about a spiritual experience, but a non-harsh solid state amp, like an older Hafler or maybe a really good Carver would work well. If you supplement these with a good subwoofer, you can get a very flat response very low. Klipsch violates the DC to light in the sense that they start to fall off at about 17.5K, but they sound great doing it. Subs: I think Velodyne, Dynaudio, Dynaudio Acoustics, Sunfire, and Bag End make great subs (stay out of Velodyne's cheap line.) Of less expensive fare, I've always been impressed by Polk Audio and Boston Accoustics speakers. Be selective, but here are some other brands that I respect and own or have owned: Tannoy, JBL, KRK. Mostly just studio stuff, though. One thing should be said for surround listening: your left, center, and right speakers should be from the same line of the same manufacturer. This keeps the voices sounding the same when they pan across. It is less important with the rear speakers. I have been to theatres where people change their voices entirely in the center channel. The last thing is that you should listen to your prospective speakers in the most similar environment to your own as possible. Especially using CD's you know extremely well. Bring a few that describe the entire audio spectrum and style pallets that you enjoy. This will give you the least number of surprises when you get them home. Was it Count Basie, whose words should drive all of our musical listening criteria: "If it sounds good it is good!" Let _your_ ears tell you. Wish ya all the best! Happies, -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:13:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Bad news for UK ghosts http://uk.news.yahoo.com/011014/80/c9izn.html - -- Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:17:28 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: halloween music, kind of I always found Frankie Teardrop by Suicide to be creepy, maybe a bit(okay, more than a bit) over the top though. Max _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:52:11 -0400 From: "bert is NOT evil" Subject: Re: Halloween music I have enjoyed all the recommendations for Halloween tunes--haven't seen a mention yet of The Dream Syndicate's "Halloween". Also the original frightening masked man Nash the Slash http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=10248 has some downloads available. Verrrrrry scarrrryyy... Roberta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Robert Saunders Subject: RE: Halloween music Halloween's my favourite holiday too, originally mostly because of Ray Bradbury - what Dickens is to christmas, he is to this time of year. Definitely seek out The Halloween Tree, Something Wicked This Way Comes, and especially, The October Country. I made this mix tape last year, called Bob the Angry Flower's Ultimate Halloween Tape. It runs 90 minutes. Side A This Is Halloween Danny Elfman No One Lives Forever Oingo Boingo Season of the Witch Donovan Twilight Zone TV Theme I Put A Spell On You Screamin' Jay Hawkins Bela Lugosi's Dead Bauhaus Ghostbusters Ray Parker Jr. Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps) David Bowie - The Singles Collection 2 Halloween Movie Theme Scary Ned The Arrogant Worms Devil In My Car B-52's Side B Night on Bald Mountain Mussorgsky Weird Science Oingo Boingo The Halloween Dance Reverend Horton Heat Nightmare On My Street DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince Living Dead Girl Rob Zombie The Creature Stole My Surfboard Dead Elvi Pet Sematary Ramones Blue Flowers Kool Keith The Hall Of Heads They Might Be Giants Jack The Ripper Screaming Lord Sutch Order of Death Public Image Ltd. Nature Trail To Hell Weird Al Yankovic Cemetary The Headstones Thanks for starting this thread - it's given me lots of ideas for my next tape! - -- Daniel Saunders Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away. - Philip K. Dick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:14:15 +0100 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Halloween music victorian squid wrote: > > Silly/fun: J Richman -- "Party In The Woods Tonight". Amazingly enough, it's a cover, I think. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #394 ********************************