From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #386 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, October 6 2001 Volume 10 : Number 386 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [Eb ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [Eb ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [Eb ] Re: Trick to get CDs cheap in Canada ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [strange little woj ] Re: Lennon tribute on TNT [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] I'm almost scared to ask but... [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Lennon tribute on TNT [HAL ] Re: I'm almost scared to ask but... [HAL ] Re: I'm almost scared to ask but... [Jeff Dwarf ] Tuna! ["Viola Rockiss" ] Re: Tuna! [steve ] Re: Tuna! [steve ] Re: URL for you! [Greg Shell ] Fantasy ["Viola Rockiss" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #385 ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: URL for you! [steve ] Re: URL for you! [bayard ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [Sebastian Hagedorn ] As if Lego porn wasn't enough... ["Natalie Jane" ] Re: lennon tribute on TNT [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:16:21 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT > >> Well, the subject isn't comic books, so it must be Beatles > >Two subjects about which you know very little. Is that what's twisting > >your panties? > Yes, that has always been it, Hal. I'm jealous because you know more about > comic books than me. Not jealous. Just nothing intelligent to add, and that tends to upset one who defines himself by being so goddamn media-hip. "If I'M unaware of something, it's *gotta* suck." /hal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:24:10 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT Eb wrote: > focus your complaints on the music, instead of returning again, > again, again and again to harp on what Sean has said in interviews. Your > message ain't consistent. You're grasping here. We were talking about the Lennon tribute and promoting Sean. Interviews he gave to promote his CD were relevant to how he uses nepotism to hype himself, and goes negative or positive depending on which way he thinks the wind is blowing. Music is a different topic. I think he sucks on both levels. Consistent enough? > >For the record: I liked Valotte. Photograph Smile was *yawn* just OK. > >The rest of Julian's catalog is pure shit. > And you don't repeatedly rage about this, like you do with Sean...why? Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Julian Lennon? The subject never came up before now! Wow. You're really struggling to make a point. > Maybe...because you like Julian's *interviews* better? Desperately struggling. Drowning even. PEACE, goddamn you!! ;) /hal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:26:18 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT On subject 1 of 2: >> Yes, that has always been it, Hal. I'm jealous because you know more about >> comic books than me. > >Not jealous. Just nothing intelligent to add, and that tends to upset >one who defines himself by being so goddamn media-hip. Yes, Hal, you don't know how it *gnaws* at me that I'm not smart/hip (?) enough to contribute to threads about the funny pages. This thread is another hilarious example of the list's double standards when it comes to me. Eb, making typos from giggling too much ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:28:25 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT > This thread is another hilarious example of the list's double standards > when it comes to me. > Eb, making typos from giggling too much Now we're ALL giggling. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:34:38 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT >> focus your complaints on the music, instead of returning again, >> again, again and again to harp on what Sean has said in interviews. Your >> message ain't consistent. > >You're grasping here. We were talking about the Lennon tribute and >promoting Sean. Not at all. You have a steady pattern of judging artists by what they say in articles rather than by their music. You pull the same stuff whenever you start frothing about Oasis, for instance. And whenever the subject of Sean Lennon comes up, you write one superficial swipe about how the kid can't sing or write, and then immediately plunge into endless grumblings about his interview history. >Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Julian Lennon? Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Sean Lennon? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:40:51 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT Eb wrote: > You have a steady pattern of judging artists by what they say > in articles rather than by their music You're fixating. (My 'patterns'? Brrr.) Sometimes interviews can give insight into an artist and their music, agreed? But I don't judge music by interviews. Sir, you are mistaken. > Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Sean Lennon? He was just on TV the other night (see subject header.) /hal, paying attention ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:41:35 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT > >> focus your complaints on the music, instead of returning again, > >> again, again and again to harp on what Sean has said in interviews. >Your > >> message ain't consistent. > > > >You're grasping here. We were talking about the Lennon tribute and > >promoting Sean. > >Not at all. You have a steady pattern of judging artists by what they say >in articles rather than by their music. You pull the same stuff whenever >you start frothing about Oasis, for instance. And whenever the subject of >Sean Lennon comes up, you write one superficial swipe about how the kid >can't sing or write, and then immediately plunge into endless grumblings >about his interview history. > > >Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Julian Lennon? > >Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Sean Lennon? > >Eb I think you two can ignore each other now...please. :-)!!! Max(Who winces at Sean Lennon's music) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:07:23 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT Max wrote: > I think you two can ignore each other now...please. :-)!!! Gladly...when Eb cries "UNCLE!" (<--a joke.) Seriously, I did the best I could to maintain a civil tone with Eb and succeeded for a little while...keeping the peace proved to be a bit more elusive. But you're right, Max. /hal, off to read a 'funnybook' (FROM HELL: Now a Major Motion Picture) PS - Don't get me started on Ravi Shankar!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:30:27 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT >> Eb, making typos from giggling too much > >Now we're ALL giggling. Possibly, but not as much as during that unhinged tirade you posted two nights ago, finishing with the tangential screech about Yoko sleeping with her "errand boy." That's gotta be one of the craziest posts I've ever seen on this list! Hee hee. I may go back and save a copy of that one. :) >> Why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Sean Lennon? > >He was just on TV the other night (see subject header.) Wow, that is shocking. So why would ANYONE repeatedly rage about...Sean Lennon? >Seriously, I did the best I could to maintain a civil tone with Eb and >succeeded for a little while...keeping the peace proved to be a bit more >elusive. Predictably, your standard wrap-up pose of "Tsk tsk, I did *try*..." righteousness. You repeatedly shriek unprovoked like a madman about Evil Yoko, drawing criticism from *several* people, but no...it's always all the fault of Big Bad Angry Eb, the Firestarter. Tsk tsk. Ebby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:40:22 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Trick to get CDs cheap in Canada LOL, A.K.A. Records on Third Street in Philly. $12.99...NO SHIPPING. mAX >From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." >Reply-To: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Trick to get CDs cheap in Canada >Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:48:30 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: "da9ve stovall" > > > > I bought all the XTC remasters at www.absound.ca - same trick, > > but even cheaper. They came in at about $11-$12 per disc, which > > beats the hell out of any American price I've ever paid before > > for Japanese imports. > >Wow, that webstore rocks. Thanks for the great tip. > >obZappa: they've even got the new Japanese remastered Zappa and Mothers >CDs, at >*half* the price of what the American stores are charging for them. Yay, >Canada! > >Wow, I am enjoying the new Ben Folds record. It makes me smile. >NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just >$8.95/month. >http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:44:07 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT >eb, it's over now. move on. As you wish, o voice of reason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 23:57:35 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT when we last left our heroes, Eb exclaimed: >This thread is another hilarious example of the list's double standards >when it comes to me. nou double-standard here. i hate you all. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:32:33 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Lennon tribute on TNT >Now, if you want to attack Beatlewrecker Yoko Fu Manchu for >keeping *Julian* off the stage, that charge might have more merit. However, Eb, you tend to creep further and further towards *that line* from time to time. Occasionally you go over it. Like insulting a Japanese woman by referring to her with the name of a stereotypical Chinese nasty. Bad Eb. No biscuit. But as always, it takes more than one side to start one of these things heating up. HAL, you too have been fuelling the fire in your own ways (although I will applaud a noble backdown when it looked like Eb had been misunderstood). Perhaps it's time to cool heels again? Ten minutes in the sin-bin? James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: I'm almost scared to ask but... ...what negative comments about his father did Sean make? I know Julian has been quoted on several occasions about John failings as a father to him, but don't recall any by Sean. np: really aggravating Giants-Dodgers game, even if Bonds his 71 & 72. NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 00:31:15 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: Lennon tribute on TNT James Dignan wrote: > HAL, you too have been fuelling the fire in your own ways Fuelling the fire? Be more specific. How is a post about the Lennon's (negative, psychotic or otherwise), Lou Reed, Natalie Merchant or any elements of a TV SHOW a personal attack on Eb, deserving of the truly personal shots he fired directly at me? And then, while I was listening to others ("Oh, that's just Eb"), giving Eb the benefit of the doubt and APOLOGIZING TO HIM like a dumbass, he fires two more very obviously cheap shots. Explain to me what I did to warrant this latest attack, and I'd be happy to try and never do whatever you think I did again. /hal, extremely sick of being negatively associated with the guy, quite frankly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 00:42:54 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: I'm almost scared to ask but... Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > ...what negative comments about his father did Sean make? I know Julian > has been quoted on several occasions about John failings as a father to > him, but don't recall any by Sean. I'm almost scared to respond...but to answer your question, Sean did a lot of talking about John's philandering to the press while promoting his CD. He made a point to tell fans to listen to Yoko's song "Death Of Samantha" to gain insight into just how much John had wounded Yoko with his infidelities prior to Yoko's kicking him out (and kicking off John's 'Lost Weekend'). /hal, refraining from editorializing this time so as not to 'offend' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:37:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: I'm almost scared to ask but... HAL wrote: > Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > ...what negative comments about his father did Sean make? I know > > Julian has been quoted on several occasions about John failings > > as a father to him, but don't recall any by Sean. > > I'm almost scared to respond...but to answer your question, Sean did > a lot of talking about John's philandering to the press while > promoting his CD. He made a point to tell fans to listen to Yoko's > song "Death Of Samantha" to gain insight into just how much John had > wounded Yoko with his infidelities prior to Yoko's kicking him out > (and kicking off John's 'Lost Weekend'). ah... > /hal, refraining from editorializing this time so as not to 'offend' grrrrrrrrr........ NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:22:05 +0000 From: "Viola Rockiss" Subject: Tuna! Well, I guess its interesting to note that feg can be like a dog biting its own butt without even going anywhere near politics;-) Still, its heartening to note that at least no one's talking bout destroying Sean, or Yoko or whatever's left of John ... yet. So, I suggest HAL and Eb make this a duel by competing gainst each other at the Miskatonic Summer Games ...:-P No actually, thou--Id miss -both- of them, so scratch that. I like reading bout comic books Ill never read and reviews of bands Ill never see. Widens my horizens in both cases. So when you guys get finished mauling yourselves, back to the good stuff pretty please:-) - --------------- Ohhhh, and on to the use of fanboy as an insult. Arent we all fanboys n girls? I mean, what are we doing "here" if we're not. And may I note fanboys n girls of a guy who is abit of an obsessive fanboy(first the remake of the Manchester concert, now another CD of Dylan covers, let alone the Beatle nods from his first group on)himself. True, he does neat stuff with it, its fodder for his own creativity but ... well, maybe thats what we sort of do too. But my point is both Eb and HAl use fanboy as an insult. Is it really? Is there anyone who interacts with our culture who isnt, somewhere along the line, a fan? Or does fan just mean stupid slobbering idiot with no sense of boundries? - ---------------------------- While I cant come close to Ed's shamefull confession of past Deadheadness, I have downloaded "Box of Rain" and have searched for "St Steven." Does that count? Am I a fangirl yet;-? - ---------------------- The Novemeber Novel Challange: Im enough of a stupid and slobbering idiot to be excited by this. These are the pluses as I see them at this naive moment. It will kick me out of my regular habits. It will kick me out of my regular thoughts. It will cut thru anxiety bout writing since I will have set myself a goal and am going for quantity more than quality. Ive never done anything like it before. I will end up with a huge amount of material, which even if utter shite, can be reworked later. I like to write, so while some of it will be hell, there will be moments of heaven. I will suprise myself. The process will be interesting to both observe and experience. It will help me weed out whats expendable in my life, and refocus whats important. Since it will be abit like automantic writing, it will roil up my unconsious in ways which I normally gaurd against. Stuff will come up Im not enitrely comfortable with. That can be both healthy and and good for my writing. If too much comes up I have a husband and child to help me put the brakes on. It will get me off Feg for a month;-) Its a good excuse to do adult, controlled, responsible;-)drug use. So what the fuck else am I doing? Dont know if this will sell some of you other Fegs on doing it, but these are my current delusions. Also, there will be a ls set up before it starts so you can try to find a writing-buddy near you, if you need one. - --------------------------- Drew-- Now I know what your doing when youre not on Feg. Legoporn! >drew.corrupt.net/lp/series1.html (Yes, I know Mike sent it in but we all knew Drew was corrupt anyway, right;-)? - -------------------------- I like imagining 1,000 suns in the sky, and then eating them. - ----------------------------- Kay, getting psyched for lunch "Men exist because cats won't mow the lawn. Women exist because sheep can't cook. Neither of these things explain children." Bumper sticker _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:04:39 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Tuna! On Saturday, October 6, 2001, at 10:22 AM, Viola Rockiss wrote: > But my point is both Eb and HAl use fanboy as an insult. Is it really? > Is there anyone who interacts with our culture who isnt, somewhere > along the line, a fan? Or does fan just mean stupid slobbering idiot > with no sense of boundries? It's a matter of degreed, and perhaps self-knowledge. - - Steve __________ President Bush met privately with top officials from the Salvation Army in May to discuss his "faith-based" initiative while the White House was reviewing a request from the charity for a regulation protecting it from local workplace nondiscrimination laws based on sexual orientation. - Dana Milbank, Washington Post ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:22:02 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Tuna! On Saturday, October 6, 2001, at 11:04 AM, steve wrote: > It's a matter of degreed That would be degree. But maybe someone who is degreed might be less of a fanboy. - - Steve __________ PAGE SIX has learned that the fun-loving First Daughters attended wild parties two nights in a row last week - including a Beverly Hills bash where Jenna was photographed holding a drink. - New York Post ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:40:59 -0500 From: Greg Shell Subject: Re: URL for you! At Saturday, 6 October 2001, grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) wrote: > this is the one and dirt ain't it the truth. http://www.instantattitudes.com/gifs/bs128.gif gSs =end of email=== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:19:41 +0000 From: "Viola Rockiss" Subject: Fantasy Working today but just had a great fantasy. We drop into Afghanistan a group of international commandos, highly-trained, well-equipped professional soldiers. Because of their excellent covers, they manage to pentrate the terrorist hideout, capture Ladin and airlift him out for trial. And -how- can they do this? Cause they're woman! Short, dark-eyed woman who speak the language and can pass as natives. Theyre clothed in those black ghost outfits so nobody notices their big knives and bigger guns. In fact, no one notices them much at all. Till its too late. And not only do they get Ben Ladin and his confederates out for trial without any civilian casualties--when there is a trial the prosecutor and judge are women. It would make him the laughingstock of fundemenatist macho Islam. Kay, dreaming her workday away and hoping this post isnt too political _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:22:20 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #385 > From: Eb > > Hal spends about two days posting rambling, practically DERANGED tirades > against the Evil Yoko Machine They didn't seem that rambling or DERANGED to me (especially in comparison to some posts I've seen on this list). But maybe that's because I don't really give a tin shit about Yoko Ono. Or, really, your sniping at Hal, his sniping at you, or Jeme's paternalistic sniping at "anyone who responds to Eb on this list." It sure does make the digests squirt out, though. - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:39:59 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: URL for you! Politics *and* religion. http://www.instantattitudes.com/gifs/bs234.gif - - Steve __________ HALTON, England  President Bush said Thursday he is having a hard time selling a missile defense plan to skeptical allies in Europe because he has only "vague notions" about what it would entail. - Ron Fournier, AP, 07/19/01 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: Re: URL for you! i wish my brother Quail were here! > Politics *and* religion. > > > http://www.instantattitudes.com/gifs/bs234.gif > > > > - Steve > > __________ > HALTON, England  President Bush said Thursday he is having a hard time > selling a missile defense plan to skeptical allies in Europe because he > has only "vague notions" about what it would entail. - Ron Fournier, AP, > 07/19/01 > - -- 'I wish it need not have happened in my time,' said Frodo. 'So do I,' said Gandalf, 'and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 23:31:30 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT - -- Eb is rumored to have mumbled on Freitag, 5. Oktober 2001 17:34 Uhr -0700 regarding Re: lennon tribute on TNT: > You have a steady pattern of judging artists by what they say > in articles rather than by their music. Well, I can see nothing wrong with that... as I said: when I like people as persons I'm much more likely to like their music, and vice versa. As long as you don't claim that you're being somehow objective it doesn't matter *how* you judge artists. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ Winter is coming. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Eb wrote: > Jeme slithered out of the seeking-disingenuous-ways-to-dogpile-Eb dugout: There's nothing disengenous about my post. I firmly believe that Hal was being amazingly strong and generous when he apologized for potentially misunderstanding you. It was a very clear case of a person looking to bury the hatchet and move on with civil discourse. And then you, Eb, came out with an unmistakable personal attack that simply could not have been written off as a light-hearted jab. > Heh heh. Oh man. Yeah, your view on this subject is totally unbiased. > Come on, who are you kidding? Go on laughing, that's cool. I absolutely do not pretend to be unbiased in any way. I think Hal is a really great person for doing what he did. And I think you're a total shit for doing what you did. And yeah, because of what you've done in the past, I already thought you were a shit. I don't believe anyone is unbiased and I think such a delusion only makes a person less capable of thinking critically. > I'm not campaigning for anyone to listen to Sean Lennon's record. His > music is not much of an issue to me. However, it's transparently > obvious that Hal's intense feelings toward this record are about 10% > based on the album itself and 90% based on his overall > sacred-shrine-of-Lennon issues. I mean, you don't hear him heaping > abuse on the godawful pile of AOR doodoo which is Julian Lennon's much > larger catalog, right? Is it because he likes Julian's music better? > Nah. It's just because Julian is anti-Yoko. And that's what matters > the most. As should be clear to all, Hal posted about Sean because Sean gave a shitty performance on a television show that was discussed on the list both before and after. And I think any time dead celebrities are thrust back into our faces is a good opportunity to reflect upon the motives of those behind those doing the thrusting and the nature of both the celebrity and celebrity itself. If Julian had been on the show, I'm sure he would have been a topic of conversation. > Now get real, Jeme, or I'll give you a big wet kiss on the nose. Oh, I'm quite realistic. And it is exactly that realism that assures me that you're not going to be kissing anyone any time soon. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:26:23 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: As if Lego porn wasn't enough... I didn't get a good look at this site (I am in a public place), but I think it even comes with instructions!! http://underground.zork.net (Oh, and yes, this is *porn*.) naughty n. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:02:44 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT Jeme, who by now has thankfully grabbed the list's "Bad Apple" award away from me: >There's nothing disengenous about my post. I firmly believe that Hal was >being amazingly strong and generous when he apologized for potentially >misunderstanding you. Pure grandstanding, as is *any* bulletin-board/newsgroup/mailing-list post presented as an "Open Letter." It's a classic dig-me move. My favorite part was that while straining to appear gallantly contrite before the bleachers, he simultaneously trolled for a resumed battle with "shitty" Jason Brown (who, much to Hal's frustration, had ignored his previous counterattack). Since Hal wasn't sure he would be able to scratch his itch with an EbWar, it was time to engage a backup plan and work on Jason some more. But darn it, *neither* Jason followed up their initial complaints, so Hal had to focus all his overstimulated energy on me. Oops. >And then you, Eb, came >out with an unmistakable personal attack that simply could not have been >written off as a light-hearted jab. I gave Hal *loads* of weenie leeway. I gave him a whole day to hush, in fact, before I lowered the boom. But he kept posting, posting and posting about Sean and Yoko.... *He* made it "personal," not me. He took the debate out of the "art" realm and into the cult of personality, via his relentless, self-eviscerating gripes about Evil Yoko and Heretical Sean. If he's going to post repeated comments with that childish, spiteful tone, he can't expect to be treated like a dignified professor presenting a paper at an academic conference. >I don't believe anyone is unbiased Except when it comes to your own politics, of course...in which case, you just giving us THE FACTS. >As should be clear to all, Hal posted about Sean because Sean gave a >shitty performance on a television show that was discussed on the list >both before and after. And his comments quickly moved past the topical event and plunged into his general Lennon-worship neuroses. When he was giving straightforward views on the concert's individual performers, I gave him the respectful, difference-of-opinion reply which he earned (typically, he couldn't even recognize the difference in his approach, and why he wasn't attacked). BUT...when he hopped onto the bus to Sulking Fanboyland, then he got burnt. And not just by horrible me either, a fact which your ilk is doing its very best to forget. Eb, fairly excited to be seeing Sigur Ros in a few hours (and hence, I'll be absent from Feglist whinings for the rest of the night) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: lennon tribute on TNT On Sat, 6 Oct 2001, Eb wrote: > Jeme, who by now has thankfully grabbed the list's "Bad Apple" award > away from me: Don't count on it. > Pure grandstanding, as is *any* bulletin-board/newsgroup/mailing-list > post presented as an "Open Letter." It's a classic dig-me move. What's a "dig-me" move? He was publicly apologizing for a public statement. You said something shitty, he reacted. Others pointed out that the shitty thing COULD BE INTERPRETED as gentle, friendly ribbing and Hal backed off and apologized. Of course, then you just continued to sling shit at him. > My favorite part was that while straining to appear gallantly contrite > before the bleachers, he simultaneously trolled for a resumed battle > with "shitty" Jason Brown (who, much to Hal's frustration, had ignored > his previous counterattack). I think you're projecting. Hal doesn't appear, to me, to seek conflict. (In fact, during the whole Dave Sim thing, Hal was trying to come to an UNDERSTANDING with those that disagreed with him and show that the view to which folks were reacting was perhaps not the real view of Sim. I think he was wrong, but he wasn't just seeking conflict.) > But darn it, *neither* Jason followed up their initial complaints, so > Hal had to focus all his overstimulated energy on me. Do you forget that AFTER his apology you CONTINUED to personally insult him? > I gave Hal *loads* of weenie leeway. How about giving him respect instead? > I gave him a whole day to hush, in fact, before I lowered the boom. You don't have a "boom" to lower. And he said nothing to you between his apology and your next personal attack. > But he kept posting, posting and posting about Sean and Yoko.... And he has EVERY RIGHT to post about Sean and Yoko. Are you schoolmarming again? Didn't we already have this conversation? > *He* made it "personal," not me. He took the debate out of the "art" > realm and into the cult of personality, via his relentless, > self-eviscerating gripes about Evil Yoko and Heretical Sean. I don't see why you think saying ANYTHING about Yoko Ono and Sean Lennon is a personal attack against you. Or are you here to defend celebrity "honor"? > >I don't believe anyone is unbiased > Except when it comes to your own politics, of course...in which case, > you just giving us THE FACTS. I've never made that claim and you're welcome to petition for citation of source for anything I say is fact. I'll say it again, assuming that anyone is unbiased destroys your ability to be critical. > And his comments quickly moved past the topical event and plunged into > his general Lennon-worship neuroses. There was no Lennon worship there. There was some absolutely apropriate commentary on Yoko Ono and Sean Lennon who thrust themselves into the limelight again and again. But I don't even recall reading a statement by Hal in this thread that Lennon was an extra-exceptional songwriter, let alone a great man or semi-deity deserving of worship. > When he was giving straightforward views on the concert's individual > performers, I gave him the respectful, difference-of-opinion reply > which he earned Respect is the ground state. And as long as his posts were not attacking you, he didn't "earn" an attack on himself. He may have earned an attack on his statements, but not on himself. It's possible to respect a person and not their opinions or the way they express them. But perhaps you're not capable. > (typically, he couldn't even recognize the difference in his approach, > and why he wasn't attacked) I think he thought he wasn't attacked because he wasn't attacking. > BUT...when he hopped onto the bus to Sulking Fanboyland, then he got > burnt. He didn't get "burnt". He had some no-account celebrity worshipper say a bunch of shitty thing about him. But, as far as I know, he's still a nice guy who's happy and healthy, living in Denver with his beautiful, beautiful wife. > And not just by horrible me either, a fact which your ilk is doing its > very best to forget. I don't have an "ilk". And I don't see ANYONE attacking Hal personally. I saw a post or two disagreeing with him and saying it wasn't fair and defending Yoko or Sean. I saw his opinions and the way he expressed them attacked. But everyone showed Hal, the man, respect... everyone but you. I think you don't see the difference between insulting a person and rebutting an argument. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #386 ********************************