From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #355 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, September 16 2001 Volume 10 : Number 355 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: rewards in heaven [Brian Cully ] Departure Lounge @ Fez in NYC cancelled... ["Timothy Reed" ] CNN and news [The Great Quail ] Re: CNN and news ["victorian squid" ] Re: Candles, candles, candles [John McIntyre ] Re: Candles, candles, candles ["victorian squid" ] Re: CNN and news [Christopher Gross ] At last, a tie-in with music [Eb ] Re: CNN and news [steve ] Re: Candles, candles, candles [Viv Lyon ] stars, bars, etc. ["Natalie Jane" ] Re: stars, bars, etc. [Capuchin ] marquee moon (was Re: stars, bars, etc.) [Miles Goosens ] May and the march of time. ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: stars, bars, etc. [steve ] Re: stars, bars, etc. [Ken Weingold ] some background ["NO WAR!" ] conspiracies'r'us [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:29:25 -0400 From: Brian Cully Subject: Re: rewards in heaven On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 11:44:54AM -0500, Sweet & Tender Hooligan wrote: > I don't like Bush. I wish he hadn't won the election. But stop using your > own intolerance and weakness as an excuse to piss on the guy. Whether you > agree with his politics or not, he's not Satan (any more than you are or I > am) and at the moment he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. > Stop stabbing your countryman in the back for, I dunno, a week, at least. I had a dream the night of the 11th. I dreamt of Bush, speaking before a throng of people. He was crushed and crying as he spoke. He spoke of his intolerance to the actions that had been commited, of his sorrow for all those who had been hurt by them, of his grief for the world to have to witness such a thing. He said that he had a decision to make, one that was necessary and that wouldn't be easy. He said that he would make his decision, and he would carry it through, and that once he had carried it through, he would resign from office. I dunno, I don't like how he got into office. I don't care for a lot of the right wing policies he embodies. But I still understand that he's just a man, and a man put into a horrible place in the wake of what has occured. I feel sorry for him, and while I may critise his actions as a result of this - indeed, that is my duty as an American - I will still try to do so not out of hatred for what he stands for, but out of the belief that all of us are equal. And while I may support his actions as a result of this, I will also do so out of the belief that all of us our equal, not out hatred for those who do not look as I do, think as I do, or believe as I do. - -bjc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:40:46 -0400 From: "Timothy Reed" Subject: Departure Lounge @ Fez in NYC cancelled... Tonight's Tim Keegan + Departure Lounge show at Fez in New York has been cancelled. The bar at Fez is open but there will be no performances. Back to your stations everyone. Tim np - East River Pipe "Dear Fricky" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:04:22 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: rewards in heaven On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 11:44 AM, Sweet & Tender Hooligan wrote: > Nothing is more irritating than people who presume to know what other > people > think (and - surprise! - the opposition always seems to think /bad/ > things!) It's well known that the Bush family expected Jeb to be the next Bush to obtain the Republican nomination for president. But political miscalculation set Jeb back a bit and George W. ended up being in position in 2000. Now, if you were to make list of the qualifications that you would hope to see in a candidate for president, George W. wouldn't score too well. But never mind that, because he is, after all, a Bush, and he has the Republican Party nomenklatura to run the country for him. > I don't like Bush. I wish he hadn't won the election. But stop using > your > own intolerance and weakness as an excuse to piss on the guy. Whether > you > agree with his politics or not, he's not Satan (any more than you are > or I > am) and at the moment he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. > Stop stabbing your countryman in the back for, I dunno, a week, at least As for my weakness, I'm just one citizen of this country. If you think it's "weak" to point out what I think to be the truth, then there's nothing I can do about that. As for being intolerant, I don't give a shit how anybody else lives their lives and take no steps to impose my beliefs on them. I admit to being intolerant of bullshit and lies, which are what Bush's campaign and, to this point, administration are based on. As for Bush being Satan, he can't be, because there ain't no such animal. But I do think that Bush and those who support his domestic agenda are not people of good will. They're all about winning and power, and having their way, even if they're only in office by accident. How arrogant is that? Did the people who voted in the last election endorse the destruction of Social Security? (And fool yourselves all you want, but that's what they're after). Or how about the idiot tax cut? Did the people vote for the development of a Space Bomber? Did they vote for a Supreme Court that might well return jurisprudence to what it was in the 1930s? How about turning over the regulatory agencies, lock and key, to the very industries they're supposed to oversee? I don't think so. So I guess I'll have to continue to piss on Bush until he gives me reason to stop. If he does anything positive enough to merit acknowledgement, I'll let you know. This is essentially a private forum, even though I suppose it's archived somewhere on the web. If I was a public official, I certainly wouldn't do anything to hinder the upcoming military operation, even though I would point out in private that it is a great mistake to call it a War. > For the record, I wish the "religious right" would, as a political > entity, > fuck off. Nevertheless, ideological intolerance is reprehensible no > matter > /who/ is getting mocked, so as long as you continue to used phrases like > "fucked up on the Lord", you'll have to forego feeling morally superior > and > settle for just being an ass like Falwell or Robertson or anyone else. Ideological intolerance? People can believe whatever they like. When it comes to supernaturalism, I think they're dead wrong, but I don't go around trying change their beliefs (unlike Christians). I make no claim of personal moral superiority. But, from all his actions and public utterances as Governor, and now President, I don't see any indication that George W. Bush has even the least capacity for real self examination or deep understanding of *anything*. So my speculation is that Billy Graham whipped some Christianity on Bush back when he was a superficial *40 year old* party boy and now he is a superficial "born again" Christian. The AFUOTL thing is an old Cheech & Chong joke. It seems apt for lots of the people I see and hear proclaiming their Christianity in public. Of course, I don't think the US is being punished because they're idiots. - - Steve __________ A New York Times investigation into overseas ballots that helped George W. Bush win the presidency found that Florida election officials, facing intense GOP pressure to accept military votes, counted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:28:56 -0700 From: The Great Quail Subject: CNN and news Eb writes, >Later, I noticed that CNN had switched their banner from "Attack on >America" to "America's New War." Ugh! I know. I for one am sickened by the way the network media and CNN is dealing with this. I don't really expect fully objective reporting from them, but it would be nice if they could at least *try.* I am disheartened by a few things: 1. The way the networks are actually trying to *brand* the crisis with logos, theme music, and so on; 2. The way this branding works to construct a consensual reality and manipulate people on a symbolic level; 3. The language used on some networks approaches pure blarney and jingoistic excess -- I actually heard one reporter refer to the Pentagon as "The mighty fortress of America's power." Jesus! I know that the media is controlled by corporations and so on; but I think there are more shallow and vain reasons they are struggling so hard to tell us what to think. I think it's just bandwagon flag-waving pushing-ratings crap. Why "America's New War" or "America Rising?" God, it's all so tacky and tasteless. What the hell's wrong with something neutral like "America's Response?" I mean, I for one will advocate a military response, I don't need CNN waving their logos in my face. I know the first casualty of war is the truth; and I know the media is corrupt; I suppose its just hard for me when my nose is rubbed in it. Some objectivity would be nice, such as what I feel the New York Times is providing. Hell, I am more impressed with our government right now than I am with CNN! Of course, I am sure they are happy that the networks are paving our psyche for war; I just think the event itself should stand on it's own. - --Quail, still foolish and naive enough to expect some intellectual honesty form network news.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 15:05:09 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: CNN and news On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:28:56 The Great Quail wrote: >Rising?" God, it's all so tacky and tasteless. What the hell's wrong >with something neutral like "America's Response?" Wish I knew. It really scared the shit out of me. I saw "America Under Attack" when I went to bed and "America's New War" when I woke up. Gawd, I was asleep for 8 hours and now we're at WAR!!! (cue Chic- "Freak Out!"). Man was I angry when I figured out there wasn't military action going on and this was just sensational scare-mongering and grandstanding, throwing a scare into people for no good purpose. Irresponsible and beyond tasteless. >it. Some objectivity would be nice, such as what I feel the New York >Times is providing. I have to say that CNN is the worst for sensationalism, so disappointing, but I do appreciate the thoughts of some of the people they have invited for comment. ABC is a lot better, it's less sensational and Peter Jennings is much less annoying/hyper than anyone at CNN (OK, does anyone else wonder at the continuing popularity of Larry King? Do you think he and Greta Van Whatsit get paid more the more annoying they are?). The BBC is probably the best I have seen, definitely the least sensational and very balanced. The CBC webpage is also good. loveonya, susan Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 18:22:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John McIntyre Subject: Re: Candles, candles, candles As far as I could see up and down my street, I was the only one out there with a candle. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:00:12 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: Candles, candles, candles On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 18:22:58 John McIntyre wrote: >As far as I could see up and down my street, I was the only one out there >with a candle. We went outside with candles, as did our next door neighbor. The house across the street had a big oil lantern thingie on a table by their open door. Also a group of people stood at the corner with votives in glass, eventually going inside and leaving them burning on the corner until the wind blew them out. Several people waved as they drove by. Doug went to the coffeehouse down the street for awhile. He said that the girl behind the counter asked him why the candles. She not only didn't know about the candles, she barely knew anything about anything that happened and didn't seem to even be that interested. Apparently she just sorta shrugged and said "if something important happens someone will tell me"(?!?!?!?!?!?!?!). OK, free clue- SOMETHING IMPORTANT HAS HAPPENED. *tears hair out* Candlelight vigils/memorials around the world: http://www.rhawk.net/thankyou/ I was really touched for some reason by the little kid in the Batman costume. loveonya, susan P.S. Does anyone know if Gnat is back in Portland yet? Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: CNN and news On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, The Great Quail wrote: > Ugh! I know. I for one am sickened by the way the network media and > CNN is dealing with this. I don't really expect fully objective We don't have cable and thus don't get CNN (though we did on Tuesday, when WB cancelled their own programming and ran a cable feed). The network that has irritated me the most is Fox, and especially the way have dragged out Oliver North as an intelligence expert. Double ugh! Can't they at least introduce him as "convicted felon and former intelligence officer Oliver North"? (Okay, so his conviction was overturned.) I'm not sure if he was just on our local Fox affiliate or the whole network. However, I'm afraid labelling the current situation "America at War" might not be sensationalism, nor manipulation, but a simple statement of fact. Does anyone else have a vague feeling that Rudy Giuliani is our President, not Bush? (Admittedly, Bush's latest statements have sounded more presidential than his first painful efforts.) I don't know if anyone really *needs* candles (we could use flashlights and glowsticks), but I just *like* them. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:39:07 -0700 From: Eb Subject: At last, a tie-in with music http://www.best.com/~abbeyrd/news/915giuliano.html Beatle author presumed dead in World Trade Center attack (9/15/01) Author Geoffrey Giuliano was apparently among the victims in the World Trade Center attack, according to his publisher, Indigo Editions. Here's the text of an email received by both Brad Howard of the World Beatles Forum and Marsha Ewing of Instant Karma magazine. We also received a note from one of Giuliano's representatives confirming his death: "Indigo Editions today formally announces the death of author Geoffrey Giuliano in the tragic attack on the World Trade Center in New York on his 48th birthday, September 11, 2001. He is survived by his wife Vrnda and four children. No body has been recovered. An Indian funeral is planned near New Delhi. INDIGO" Brad Howard tells us his publisher had confirmed that Giuliano had just finished another Beatles book called "Revolution." Our condolences to his family. - ---- [Now, Giuliano is usually known as a reprehensible Beatles muckraker a la Albert Goldman and Kitty Kelley, but whatever...give him some grief.] Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:20:59 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: CNN and news On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 06:07 PM, Christopher Gross wrote: > The network that has irritated me the most is Fox Why would you expect any better? Just stating the obvious, but it's owned by a rightwing billionaire and run by a Reaganite. Their claim to be "fair and balanced" is a prime example of the big lie technique. - - Steve __________ The Bush/Nixon bond is a most peculiar union, given the immense class gap between the Man from Whittier and the would-be dynasty in Kennebunkport. And yet there's an important similarity between them after all. Despite the Bush clan's vast advantage, that crew is, oddly, just as thin-skinned and resentful as the Trickster. Like him, they never forget a slight, and always feel themselves impaired; and so-like Nixon-they tend to favor The Attack. - Mark Crispin Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:38:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: Candles, candles, candles On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, victorian squid wrote: > P.S. Does anyone know if Gnat is back in Portland yet? Nope, she gets back on Monday. She's left her little nameless cat in my charge, and I've taken to calling it Owl. I just listened to her demo tape, and goshdarn it's good. Sounds a bit like XTC crossed with Neutral Milk Hotel, which is hardly surprising, since those are two of her favorite bands. Also, one song sounded vaguely Liz Phair-ish, and I hope she doesn't bludgeon me for saying that. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:32:46 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: stars, bars, etc. >We can fight the governments that allow those ants to breed. Those >that give them safe harbour. Those that condone their actions through > >their inaction. Or, we can bomb the living shit out of the people who have suffered at the hands of those governments, without actually harming the governments themselves. What's the penalty for a woman appearing in public in Afghanistan without a burka? Is it death or "merely" the loss of a hand? I forget. >Nice to see the patriotism, but it smelt a bit too much of exuberant >War >Fever. I've never smelt the odor that powerfully before. Egads, I am agreeing with Eb. Isn't it wonderful how this tragedy brings us all closer together. My grandmother (hardly a hawkish type) was wearing red, white, and blue today. I asked her why, and she said she found people's kindness and generosity during the last few days to be inspiring. "But other people besides Americans are kind and generous," I said. "But Americans are the closest people to hand," she said. Well, all right... I'm not going to split hairs with a nearly-deaf 91-year-old. :) Anyway, I wonder how much of this flag-waving is inspired by my grandmother's attitude, and how much of it is inspired by weird abstract notions of AMERICA as "our side," "the good guys," etc.? I think it's mostly the latter. I got a nasty chill when I saw footage of people in Washington D.C. chanting "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" as if at a football game. Our team's gonna kick your team's ass, man! Yeah! Whoo! 'Cos we're the land of the free, man! My sister asked my grandmother (who's lived through WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War) if this uglier sort of patriotism seemed like a precusor to war. She said, "Oh, yes, definitely." Just to show that kindness and generosity isn't solely an American attribute (as if anyone here needed persuading), while wrangling with my travel agent yesterday, she told me that one of her other clients is stranded in Istanbul (!), and the people who owned a restaurant where he was eating, offered to take him in, and also offered sympathy and condolences. Complete strangers, mind you. My faith in human nature (what little remains) is being restored, just a little. Speaking of restaurants, I've been wanting to try the Moroccan restaurant down the street from where I work, and I guess this is my perfect opportunity. (As soon as I escape from Buffalo, that is - on Monday, hopefully.) n. p.s. Seen on a movie marquee today: GOD BLESS AMERICA RAT RACE _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: stars, bars, etc. On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Natalie Jane wrote: > Speaking of restaurants, I've been wanting to try the Moroccan > restaurant down the street from where I work, and I guess this is my > perfect opportunity. (As soon as I escape from Buffalo, that is - on > Monday, hopefully.) Marrakesh is fantastic. Viv and I might go with you. The more the better. Hell, how about we get the whole feg contingent to show and we'll order the Feast! I hear they roast a whole goat. OK, I guess many of you are vegetarians. So forget that. > p.s. Seen on a movie marquee today: > GOD BLESS AMERICA > RAT RACE That's really great. This isn't in the same spirit, but I have photos of two marquees here: ERIN BROKOVICH SCREWED MY DOG SKIP and SPY KIDS BLOW POKEMON J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:34:31 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: marquee moon (was Re: stars, bars, etc.) At 07:58 PM 09/15/2001 -0700, Capuchin wrote: >On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Natalie Jane wrote: >> p.s. Seen on a movie marquee today: >> GOD BLESS AMERICA >> RAT RACE > >That's really great. > >This isn't in the same spirit, but I have photos of two marquees here: >ERIN BROKOVICH >SCREWED >MY DOG SKIP > >and > >SPY KIDS >BLOW >POKEMON I really, really miss the time earlier this year when SNATCH was a theatrical release. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:06:46 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: stars, bars, etc. On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:58:53 Capuchin wrote: >OK, I guess many of you are vegetarians. So forget that. If you're only talking about Portlandfeg, ISTR I'm actually the only veg, unless obviously there are others I haven't met. I guess if you're really into the goat thing I could try to cope. When we lived in Logan Square our Mexican neighbors used to roast whole pigs on a spit on holidays, so I'm sorta used to seeing/smelling similar things. Say, am I the only person who has spent much of today cleaning and doing laundry? I have this weird but -undeniable- compulsion to "prepare" for something, tho I don't know what good scrubbing my kitchen sink does anyone really, particularly if we all get nuked tomorrow. Gives a sense of control, I guess, and also maybe this idea that who the hell knows what happens now, maybe tomorrow there will be complete chaos and I'll be glad I got the cleaning done today. It sounds strange when I write it out, it feels strange when I stop to think about why, but it's still with me. There are worse things than a clean house *shrug*. loveonya all, susan P.S. Peter Cook and Dudley Moore in "Raquel Welch" Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:13:44 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: May and the march of time. For all those sick of my rantings, this is my last post on politics or military history. I'm going to go edit my Lucinda Williams audience recording and delete anything that reeks of political discussion. I enjoy this group's freewheeling nature and even debating these things (to a degree...not enough of one though)but I joined this to discuss music. I thank god that we live in a world in which people can bitch at each other and value the right. >J. >I have no idea what you're refering to, here. The above reads like a >total non-sequitor. Let me know what I'm missing. Actually this is directed to your continuing habit of trying to rationalize eastern and middle eastern culture and terrorism to western values. You think it is our policys that caused this, and that is wrong. It is a hatered of our culture and the theory that it is poisoning the globe. But I digress, you are looking at WWII through a liberal political correct looking glass. Talk to some veterens of the Pacific campaign and ask them if they think about it. In my humble opinion I would trust them before some book you may have read on the subject. > >I never ever said that it was right(and it you would bother to learn > > your history you would find that it was an agonizing decision for > > Truman) and I'm sorry that so many people lost their lives. > >You said it was the ONLY option... which is the pragmatist's "right". bullshit, here is what I said cut and pasted: . But, under the circumstances it may have been the only option at the time. May - you "may" want to use your dictionary on that one. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 01:42:57 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: stars, bars, etc. On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 11:06 PM, victorian squid wrote: > When we lived in Logan Square our Mexican neighbors used to roast whole > pigs on a spit on holidays, so I'm sorta used to seeing/smelling > similar things. I hope they turned out better than the possum some of my old dorm mates tried to cook in a toaster oven. - - Steve __________ A New York Times investigation into overseas ballots that helped George W. Bush win the presidency found that Florida election officials, facing intense GOP pressure to accept military votes, counted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:03:14 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: stars, bars, etc. On Sat, Sep 15, 2001, Capuchin wrote: > Hell, how about we get the whole feg contingent to show and we'll order > the Feast! I hear they roast a whole goat. > > OK, I guess many of you are vegetarians. So forget that. If you mean Gnat being in Buffalo, amazingly enough, though I am not sure why it should be, I am the only NY Feg that is anything close to veg. Though, LJ seems to insist that I am. - -Ken NP: the news on TV. Can't seem to avoid it since Tues. As for the cheesy slogans, I simply ignore them just to get the poop, shed tears and all.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 01:56:37 -0700 From: "NO WAR!" Subject: some background is, i think, a very good essay. the author even gives his phone number! quite a bit of stuff on the z site. . includes (i almost hesitate to add) another fine piece by john pilger. i've been feeling nauseous for basically two whole days now. every time the war machine starts gearing up anew, i always think to myself, "i can't believe we're going to do it AGAIN." you'd think one of these days i'd get over my naivete, huh? more specific responses at a later date, if i'm up to it. but can we PLEASE not have any more comments about needing to "stop terrorism at its root" (or the like)? the *united states* is the one raining bombs and depleted uranium all over iraq and yugoslavia, and TO THIS DAY bombing iraq multiple times weekly. the *united states* is the one sending $1.3 billion worth of military equipment to colombia, and $5 billion per year to israel. the *united states* is the one arming the crazed destruction of kurdistan. the *united states* is the one shipping off more weaponry than the rest of the world combined. the *united states* is the one that has been arming death squads in every nook and cranny of the world for fifty years. the *united states* was the one bombing dikes in korea. the *united states* was the one facilitating the genocide in east timor. the *united states* is the one "harboring" war criminals (i.e., clinton, bush, reagan, kissinger) up the ying-yang. and this is without even mentioning economic warfare. i realise that i'm probably guilty of blurring the lines between repression, terrorism, and agression here. but we all know they're three sides of the same coin. the point being, if you want to stop terrorism, then get your ass down to the fucking lockheed-martin plant, okay? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:32:02 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: conspiracies'r'us Sorry to inflict this on ya folks, but I just heard a doozy of a conspiracy theory today - and worryingly enough it's believable. Hopefully someone on this list will be able to break the logic for me... 1) Bin Laden has now twice denied responsibility for the WTC, and the Taliban don't think he has the capability of carrying it out. So who does? Well, Saddam Hussein for one. Only - as much as he would love to hit the US - - he wouldn't want it to be known it was him. He'd want someone he could pin the blame on. So, when it is clear that a terrorist leader has a grudge against the US (and has attacked the WTC in the past), he has the perfect patsy to set up. ObL gets the blame, maybe even becomes a martyr to the cause. Hussein gets to strike the US where it hurts and lives to fight another day. 2) so... what if the CIA or US military see through this. What would be their best strategy? Claim they know for a fact it is Bin Laden, that they have evidence (but keep quiet about what this non-existent evidence is). Then get their troops into positions where they can easily make a strike on anywhere in the middle east. Only it isn't Afghanistan they hit... an intriguing theory and, as I say, one that I haven't been able to punch any holes in (which I leave up to you). I suppose the second part will become clear soon enough, but the first part? Hmm. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #355 ********************************