From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #353 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 10 : Number 353 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: hey rube ["Maximilian Lang" ] tree hugging can get you killed these days ["Walker, Charles" ] the happy hour war ["Walker, Charles" ] heads we win, tails you lose ["Walker, Charles" ] RE: hey rube [Christopher Gross ] Re: hey rube [steve ] an architectural gesture ["Walker, Charles" ] Re: hmm... [strange little woj ] Re: militarization takes coordination [strange little woj ] My opinion ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: militarization takes coordination ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: militarization takes coordination [Eb ] RE: hey rube ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: hey rube ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: My opinion [steve ] Re: hey rube [steve ] Re: hey rube [steve ] Re: hey rube ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: Long Rant [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: My opinion [Eleanore Adams ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:26:54 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: hey rube Ferris_Thomas > We're paired right now >with probably the most competant Vice President and Secretary of State the >country's had in the past fifty years. VP probably,a bit of a hawk(too much so for my tastes) but under the circumstances thats a plus. I would have to go with Kissinger as Sec. though. It is a bit early in the term to discuss Powell's competancy one way or the other. Max _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:30:00 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: tree hugging can get you killed these days > So if I go over to my friend Jeff's house, and Rex > happens to be there > (he is a long-time tree-sitter and forest activist), and Rex > I chat for > awhile, then guess what? I'm associating with someone the government > suspects of being allied with a terrorist organization. He doesn't, of > course, but the FBI assume that all forest activists are > involved with the > Earth Liberation Front. Does that therefore make me a suspicious > character, worthy of investigation? chas in LA replies: like it or not, we are judged by the company we keep. i am southern, so i had to add my 2cents on that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Charles Gillett Subject: Re: that "yay america" piece On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:56:11 -0400 (EDT), Aaron Mandel wrote: > I'd written it off as another "everybody's got to wear sunscreen". I smell another smash hit for Baz Luhrmann. My least favorite editorial so far: "We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Wait, who are the homicidal maniacs? Do you like to dance, Ann Coulter? My second least favorite editorial is also available at that site--William F. Buckley, Jr., saying that we should bomb the hell out of Osama bin Laden right now, because even if he wasn't responsible for Tuesday's attacks, he's done all sorts of other bad things. Even though it doesn't quite fit, I've had NMH's "Ghost" going through my head since Tuesday. - -- Charles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:33:32 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: the happy hour war i do not have a tv so if i want to watch a ballgame or catch up on the news i generally hang out at a bar during happy hour - baseball and football start early on the west coast - one advantage of life out here. so to watch the newsand the pending gloom of 9/11 i have to be in the bar. i have been drunk/hungover every day this week, and not in a pleasant way.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:40:28 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: heads we win, tails you lose We're not talking about a nation with borders and an infrastructure and symbolic targets. We're talking about people who share a belief system. chas replies: hence bush's words that we will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them or give them safe passage - essentially an end around, if the terrorists have nowhere to go in the middle east then they can be rooted out. if they hide, then we go to war with that country. it forces these nations, FINALLY, to pick a side - are they with us or not, simple as that. the execution of such an endeavor ain't quite as simple. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: RE: hey rube Ferris: > Take a second to look at the supporting cabinet. We're paired right now > with probably the most competant Vice President and Secretary of State > the > country's had in the past fifty years. Here's where we differ: they may be competent, but they're competent at pushing policies I oppose. Still, if they manage to find a way to cripple terrorist networks without killing large numbers of innocent civilians, they'll have my eternal gratitude. (My gratitude will probably not translate into Republican votes, though.) Capuchin: > > > Violence begets the like until someone says enough and STOPS. > > > > This is true. However I don't think you would soon see religious > > fanatics throw up their arms and say, "all right, you've got us. > > We'll stop." > > Right. > > Which leaves whom responsible for doing so? > > Us. The problem is, someone stopping and saying "enough" will not necessarily end the violence. It may just as easily make the other party push even harder. In this case, I believe that's what would happen. > There are no "floodgates" to be opened. If we back off on our oppressive > foreign policies, cease are irrational support of Israeli racism, and > generally pull our occupational forces out of the Middle East (making sure > the Israeli's are disarmed, like the Iraqis were), we're not MORE > succeptible to attack from outside. Of course it would make us more succesptible to attack! What would this tell the world? "Kill five or six thousand Americans and they'll do whatever you want." Don't you think that would encourage people who want us to do something to try a little more terrorism? As for Israel ... I'm sorry to be put into the position of defending Israel, which is guilty of serious human rights violations in the occupied territories. However, I do at least support Israel's right to exist, minus those occupied territories. And I blame the Palestinians as much as the Israelis for the conflict. In fact I blame the Palestinians MORE than the Israelis for the *current* round of violence. The Palestinian leadership had a peace deal that offered them nine-tenths of what they wanted, and they rejected it. The will to make peace may be in short supply in Israel, but it's almost nonexistent among Palestinians (and their supporters). To say that the problem would be solved if we stopped our support and disarmed Israel is to say that the Israelis are solely to blame. And to actually disarm Israel in the current world would lead very quickly to the destruction of Israel. Do you disagree? Do you think Israel *should* be destroyed? If the US is far too uncritical in its support of Israel, the Arab world is even more uncritical in its support of the Palestinians. Our support for Israel may be one of the things that "provoked" the terrorists, but I'd rather keep it than join the drive-the-Jews-into-the-sea camp. > THEY DON'T FEAR REPRISAL. Don't you understand that? We're talking about > SUICIDE BOMBERS. These people believe that dying while fighting the enemy > of God is WONDERFUL. Well, telling them that they won't suffer reprisals certainly won't help! But our goal shouldn't be to inflict reprisals and get revenge; it should be to knock out as much as possible of the material base terrorists need to function: financial backing, base camps, transit points, and yes, the terrorists themselves. > And you do not kill an IDEA by killing all the people that believe in it. True, but then the idea alone doesn't kill. The money, supplies and fighting men kill. And those CAN be hit. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:48:14 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: hey rube On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 02:48 PM, Thomas, Ferris wrote: > Free speech: I don't think anyone's looking to impune free speech here. > > Voting rights: Who the fuck's threatening voting rights? > > The right to association: You bet. Associating with known terrorist > faction > members or their allies should cast you into suspicion. The Brits have > been > doing it for years with the Antiterrrorism act and I don't have much > of a > problem with it. The Brits don't have a Constitution. But come on, other than consorting with known terrorists what civil liberties are you willing to give up? Spell it out! None of the conservative blowhards (Bill Bennett, etc.) that have been on the media are willing to say just what they want us to give up. Of course, we know that they want us to be *just like them*, so I guess it's just the civil liberties that they don't like. > The obvious problems with Leftists (and Steve, you're screaming > leftist) is > that as a group you've got an incredibly poor grasp of time concepts. If I'm such a big leftist, how come I don't get on better with our upper left coast contingent? I'm just a namby pamby neoliberal. It's not that the Democratic Party is so great, it's just that most Republicans suck so bad. > Earlier in the year the Left displayed this failing in economics (e.g. > blaming Bush for a downtrend that was well established before he took > office, blaming the tax cut for surplus reductions before any of it had > actually gone into effect). You're mistaking political positioning with the inability to tell time. > Now a terrorist plot that experts estimate took > 5+ years to plan is Bush's fault? It could have happened under Al > Gore's > watch or (and if it had to have happened I wish it would have) under > Clinton's. What a ever-loving JOKE it would be to see Clinton try and > cope > with this situation by any other means than weaping before a flag. When did I say this was Bush's fault? However, his *humble* foreign policy lasted only until he took the oath of office. Perhaps all that power caused him to mutate into The Ultimate Ugly American. Do you think that Bush is doing anything other than sprouting the homilies put into his mouth by Rove and Hughes? It's Vice President Dick and the other hired help that actually do the work. I caught the last half of a Frontline that was rebroadcast last night. Seems the Clinton administration had at least 2 near goes at getting bin Laden but pulled back because they couldn't justify the American losses possible in a limited operation. Can't you just see the late Barbara Olson speeding to the Fox studio to savage the Clintons once again? Now that most Americans are doing the War Dance, a few dead soldiers won't matter so much, as long as we get our guy. I'm not opposed to a long term action against terrorists, but this War War War thing is unnecessary. Don't the Bushies think they can rally public support without whipping up a national frenzy? Forget the patriotic blather, let's hear the plan. > For fuck's sake. > > The military and intelligence communities were eviscerated under > Clinton's > watch with his blessing, and he kowtowed to every dictatorial piece of > shit > on the planet; if anyone is to blame for this crap it's him. Just another right-wing canard. Conservatives just feel lost when they don't have their death squad buddies to pal around with. As for blame - http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/09/12/bush/index.html And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Bush administration was giving anti-drug money to the Taliban. I guess they're not useful anymore. - - Steve __________ Calling George W. Bush and Jesse Helms "public servants" is like calling Iran-contra criminal Elliott Abrams an "outstanding diplomat"--which is precisely what White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer did when he announced Abrams' appointment as senior director of the National Security Council's Office for Democracy, Human Rights and International Operations. - Terry J. Allen, In These Times ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:49:47 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: an architectural gesture chas writes: i sent an idea out to some of my friends: "when all of this is >done, they ought to re-built the towers exactly like they were - another >fuck you, you cant win type of a thing." my friend doug responded: "I passed on this comment to some folks, and I liked Anand's response. Instead, they should replace the towers with three towers, with the one in the middle being taller than the others. d" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:06:25 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: hmm... >>p.s. if it's any comfort, i can be mean and arbitrary. yesterday, i >>posted to the tori amos mailing list i moderate saying that it was >>okay to discuss this stuff, but reneged on that decision this morning >>since the thread there quickly devolved into flames and name-calling >>and the level of the discussion was remarkably ill-informed. >that would never happen on...say...the kate bush list. no, since i don't moderate it! ;) +w ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:08:13 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: militarization takes coordination when we last left our heroes, Eb (ElBroome@earthlink.net) exclaimed: >Mm-hmm. I've always been quizzical at people's overwhelming need to mourn >through empty symbolism. excuse me. ;) >"Candlelight vigils" have long been a pet peeve of >mine. Really, do candles serve *any* useful purpose in our culture, at this >point? ;) the military-industrial candleplex thinks so. +w ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:16:08 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: My opinion I have stumbled onto a valuable fact today. Upon my arrival home I found myself with 80 e-mails. The arguments were varied, most people were well spoken and open minded, some were not. The valuable lesson I got today was that you people really need to get some work done! These were 80 of the longest emails I have ever had to slog through. I think the reality is that we live in a very complicated world. Everybody wants America's help, and everyone who does not get it resents us. From the beginning of so called civilized man peoples hands have been getting dirty in politics and government, today is no different. Sorry I can't worry about every policy the U.S.A. has and I don't expect our foreign policies to be pure as driven snow, that is ignorant and naive to ever expect. I do think that under the circumstances military action is warranted and should be carried out without regret. Is it me or are the posts on this subject varied by region? People in a close proximity to NYC and D.C. seem much more outraged. While people in the mid west and on the west coast babble about conspiracy and policies of previous administrations, people on the east coast plea for action. I really don't think a lot of people have a grasp on the fact that this is not a TV movie or Independence day,I hope I'm wrong. I was an angry young man until I realized it would only lead to my becoming a bitter old man, Max P.S. It may sound corny but I love this country and I am deeply wounded by this event. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:19:45 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: militarization takes coordination >Eb (ElBroome@earthlink.net) exclaimed: > >Really, do candles serve *any* useful purpose in our culture, at this > >point? ;) As someone who has had three somewhat lengthy power outages this year, yes they do. MAX _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:34:10 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: hey rube On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 05:26 PM, Maximilian Lang wrote: > I would have to go with Kissinger as Sec. though. Is that Henry "Peace With Honor" Kissinger you're talking about? The guy who worked for Richard "We Have A Secret Plan To End The War" Nixon? He certainly has no peer when it comes to *telling* people how competent he is. - - Steve __________ Warning: This check is not a "rebate" of taxes you already paid. It's an advance on the refund you'll get when you file next April. If it's an advance, you ask, does that mean my refund in April will be $300 smaller than it would have been? And if I'm unlucky enough to owe taxes, does that mean my tax bill will be $300 higher? The answer to both questions is yes. - David Milstead, RMN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:45:56 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: militarization takes coordination >>Really, do candles serve *any* useful purpose in our culture, at this >>point? ;) > >As someone who has had three somewhat lengthy power outages this year, yes >they do. You could drop by the camping-supplies department, and grab a battery lamp. ;) But yes, the blackout situation was the one legitimate use which popped into my head earlier. I had been looking forward to seeing a rare live appearance by To Rococo Rot on the 23rd -- now, the tour is cancelled. I guess that's the first (of many) instances of my own activities being directly altered by the calamity. Reap math: (4763 + 184 + 126 + 266 + ...) + Dorothy McGuire - 19 Eb PS Actually, I wonder if the news coverage should sound a little bit more "relieved" about the death toll. Considering the initial talk was about *50,000* people working in those two towers (plus, what, 100,000 daily visitors?), the 5,000ish figure almost sounds fortunately *low* to me. No? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:45:15 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: hey rube >From: "Thomas, Ferris" >Reply-To: "Thomas, Ferris" >The obvious >problems with Leftists (and Steve, you're screaming leftist) is >that as a group you've got an incredibly poor grasp of time concepts. >Earlier in the year the Left displayed this failing in economics (e.g. >blaming Bush for a downtrend that was well established before he took >office, blaming the tax cut for surplus reductions before any of it had >actually gone into effect. Actually I think the point is that it was shown to be a bit of a reckless act. While the left was saying lets wait and see Bush steamrolled it through telling us all this surplus existed. Then after it was a done deal it comes out that the surplus is nonexistent. I am not going to knock Georgie Porgie to much given this weeks events(although I find his speeches in the aftermath weak and frightened sounding). MAX _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:48:12 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: hey rube >On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 05:26 PM, Maximilian Lang wrote: > >>I would have to go with Kissinger as Sec. though. > > >Is that Henry "Peace With Honor" Kissinger you're talking about? The >guy who worked for Richard "We Have A Secret Plan To End The War" >Nixon? He certainly has no peer when it comes to *telling* people how >competent he is. > > >- Steve And what stellar modern day Sec. do you pick? God knows all other political appointees are totally in line with the people who appoint them. Didn't I see Maddy Albright necking with Monica Lewinsky last week...PLEASE!!! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:06:07 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: My opinion On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 06:16 PM, Maximilian Lang wrote: > I really don't think a lot of people have a grasp on the fact that this > is not a TV movie or Independence day, I hope I'm wrong. They could have crashed into a full-up crowd at The Ballpark In Arlington, which is not far away, and I would be saying the same things. - - Steve __________ Which wild child daughter of a politico was smoking pot at an L.A. party? The hard-partying lass puffed right under the nose of the minders who try to keep her out of trouble. Answer: Jenna Bush - New York Post, 7/25/01 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:52:19 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: hey rube On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 03:57 PM, Thomas, Ferris wrote: > Does a former govenor from Texas with a background in > oil have a firm grasp on international terrorists? Not in the first > nine > months of his term in office. Or ever. If he was competent the people in his administration wouldn't have to talk day after day about how engaged he is. Even the "liberal press" makes excuses for him. Bush is a zero. Rich friends saved him from a failing oil business and used a nothing position with a professional baseball team to give him millions of dollars and the platform from which to run for Govenor of Texas and then for President. If his administration is a "success", it will be because of the hired hands, not him. - - Steve __________ The Bush/Nixon bond is a most peculiar union, given the immense class gap between the Man from Whittier and the would-be dynasty in Kennebunkport. And yet there's an important similarity between them after all. Despite the Bush clan's vast advantage, that crew is, oddly, just as thin-skinned and resentful as the Trickster. Like him, they never forget a slight, and always feel themselves impaired; and so-like Nixon-they tend to favor The Attack. - Mark Crispin Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:13:59 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: hey rube On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 06:48 PM, Maximilian Lang wrote: > And what stellar modern day Sec. do you pick? God knows all other > political appointees are totally in line with the people who appoint > them. Didn't I see Maddy Albright necking with Monica Lewinsky last > week...PLEASE!!! Monica may have cum on her dress, but Kissinger has blood on his hands. - - Steve __________ If anyone has ever benefited from what Bush has called "the bigotry of soft expectations," it's George W. Bush himself. - Mark Crispin Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:29:04 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: hey rube Kissinger has blood on his >hands. > > >- Steve And what administration does not? Eisenhower(scratch that, he sent the first advisors over)? Coolidge? Welcome to the Later half of the 20th and the early 21st century. Max,who hates(and thats not too strong a word)Nixon. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 13:59:47 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Long Rant >> and I'm no flag-burning anti-American. America is a great country. And this >> last week it has suffered terribly. I support a lot of the things your >> country does, and far more that it says it stands for. But to claim that it >> is somehow unique and is only ever a force for good in the world is a >> mountainous pile of crap that not only not worthy of a leading world >> nation, but is also insulting to many other countries. > >This was not claimed. By my reading Ed's theme was that while there are plenty >of things to be upset, angry and paranoid about that our government does, >"warts-and-all" it's still the best place by miles. And I agree with him >100%. I didn't mean that Ed was claiming this - I meant that he original Sinclair article was claiming this. It was repeatedly saying that ONLY the US was doing these things. ONLY the US was helping the poor nations. And that NO country ever helped America. All three statements are patently false, and insulting to nations that do help. >The last thing is that one of my favorite >people in the world is of Arab descent. >Though he has lived through war in his >homeland, he is one of the most sweet and >gentle people on earth. In every moment I >fear that his physical features will cause >him pain. There are hundreds of thousands >like him in this country alone. agreed. I was for a while enamoured of a beautiful young woman whose hair I never saw due to her headwear. To claim that all Moslems are responsible for this is as stupid as saying that all Christians are responsible for what happened in Srebrenica. As to Mike's suggestion of the invocation of the rule of woj to stop this arguing, I'd suggest holding off for a while. It may be that this is all boring venting to many of you, but it is, I think, very psychologically important that people who need to get the opportunity to vent. I think the list will ease back to normal fairly soon (news events permitting) >Chamberlain, came crawling from Munich, with one piece of paper, he held >for the camera. "Peace in our time, oh thank you Herr Hitler". Tell that >to the Polish, tell that to the Jews. Chamberlain made one silly mistake. He was brought up in a world where Germany was ruled by people whose word WAS worth something. With both the Britain and Germany of 20 years earlier, their word was their bond to a large extent - they regarded each oither as 'gentlemen'. If Chamberlain had got an agreement with Hindenberg on such a thing, it would have been worth something. But Hindenberg's generation had gone, and Hitler was no Prussian Officer. (Hmmm. what was Godwin's law again?) >>Generosity, I'll grant you. And compassion, to a limited extent (how much >>compassion is being shown to Middle Eastern nationals living in the US at >>the moment? Do they feel it's safe for them to venture onto the streets?). > >A very good question. > >I live near Atlantic Avenue, which has a very high concentration of >Middle Eastern immigrants. needless to say, they are a bit anxious >right now -- and certainly, a few assholes have been sending them >hate vibes. But my feeling is that far more people are supporting >them, and trying to spread words of peace and understanding. (hell, >even Colin Powell has something to say about that!) even here in Dunedin, ten thousand miles from the action, the large number of Malaysian Moslem students at the University went into hiding for two days after the attack. George Street's north end is usually filled with asian students from as far afield as Iran and Yemen, but on Tuesday and Wednesday it was pure 100% white-bread. >Eddie, Drew, and Ken -- *really.* The very fact that you even >entertain the notion that the attack was US sponsored speaks far more >from your loathing of the US than it does from any sense of logical >reasoning. Eddie, you especially know the US is a capitalist state -- >why take out her own financial district? Jesus, any number of other >civilian targets could have enraged Americans and yet not harmed us >financially! or with as much loss of life. What would Americans have thought if terrorists had crashed planes into the Statue of Liberty, the Golden Gate Bridge, and the Lincoln Memorial? It would have been as much proof that it could be done, as big a symbol of thumbing a nose at the US, and wouldn't have harmed the US financially. >>they have a office stocked with people >>who know how to make war. Of that there is no doubt. > >chas in LA replies: this is true, but my question is, do they have an ofice >stocked with people who know how to END a war?? a big distinction. It takes one person to start a war. It takes everyone to stop one. Sad, but true. >> In a quest for escapism I purchased 2 mags yesterday, Vanity Fair for stuff >> on "Harry Potter" and Wired for the same on "LOTR." silly question, but has anyone ever seen Harry Potter and the young Sean Lennon in the same room? Suspicious, huh? James now avoiding playing: Billy Bragg - Don't try this at home (especially the tracks "Tank Park Salute" to "Rumours of War"). James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:10:14 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: My opinion Well, I think most of all, no matter if we all want to admit it or not, are all in need of outreach to our fellow peoples. All of us want to feel in touch with our common commuinty - we all value each other, and this event, no matter who or where we are, has made us, even if subconsious, long for our human connections. We take them for granted. And we write and talk, about everything and anything, because that is what makes us even more human. And all of us fear death, and this event reminds us that death is always very close. eleanore Maximilian Lang wrote: > I have stumbled onto a valuable fact today. Upon my arrival home I found > myself with 80 e-mails. The arguments were varied, most people were well > spoken and open minded, some were not. The valuable lesson I got today was > that you people really need to get some work done! These were 80 of the > longest emails I have ever had to slog through. > > I think the reality is that we live in a very complicated world. Everybody > wants America's help, and everyone who does not get it resents us. From the > beginning of so called civilized man peoples hands have been getting dirty > in politics and government, today is no different. Sorry I can't worry about > every policy the U.S.A. has and I don't expect our foreign policies to be > pure as driven snow, that is ignorant and naive to ever expect. I do think > that under the circumstances military action is warranted and should be > carried out without regret. > > Is it me or are the posts on this subject varied by region? People in a > close proximity to NYC and D.C. seem much more outraged. While people in the > mid west and on the west coast babble about conspiracy and policies of > previous administrations, people on the east coast plea for action. I really > don't think a lot of people have a grasp on the fact that this is not a TV > movie or Independence day,I hope I'm wrong. > > I was an angry young man until I realized it would only lead to my > becoming a bitter old man, > Max > > P.S. It may sound corny but I love this country and I am deeply wounded by > this event. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #353 ********************************