From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #350 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 10 : Number 350 Today's Subjects: ----------------- IRA ["Walker, Charles" ] RE: hey rube ["Thomas, Ferris" ] RE: militarization takes coordination ["Kenneth Johnson" ] Re: Escapism [Tom Clark ] what do you think? ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] RE: hey rube ["Kenneth Johnson" ] RE: hey rube ["Thomas, Ferris" ] RE: hey rube [Christopher Gross ] Re: IRA [The Great Quail ] RE: hey rube ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: hmm... [strange little woj ] RE: hey rube [Aaron Mandel ] RE: hmm... ["Poole, R. Edward" ] Re: hey rube [steve ] RE: militarization takes coordination [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:16:13 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: IRA chas in LA writes: hey, is this war on terrorism going to include what goes on in Ireland? i mean terrorism is terrorism. brings up the old idea from WWII that said that the US would never nuke a white nation. food for thought, dig in before it gets cold. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:57:53 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: hey rube Thompson's an an ass. Any argument with the Middle East and fanatical Islamic factions wasn't started with the Gulf War, but long before that. We're dealing here with not just anti-American sentiment, but one that is anti-Semitic and anti-Western. America finds itself at the top of the target list now not only because we're considered to be world leaders (of many things) but we've not been targeted on this scale on our home soil before. Our media, press and way of life permeate around the globe and it's just those things that Islamic fundamentalists oppose. We're a threat to their way of life and because we stand the chance of degrading their way of life we're to be opposed. We are the Devil Incarnate. I, for one, would willing to forgo some civil liberties in exchange for heightened national and local security against any such attacks. It's unfortunate that we may be faced with that decision, however we haven't reached to this point at any fault to George H. Bush or even George W. Bush (no matter how much a minority of people out there might like to believe.) The eighty some-odd percent of the world that is non-Islamic has been traveling down that road for quite some time. We've only now hit the crossroads. Now's really not the time to cast doubt on the competancy of the current administration. Anyone who's afraid of losing a touch of their civil liberties as a result of post-attack measures taken by the Government perhaps should take a step back. Last Tuesday proved we're all in danger of losing far more than that. I'll say it again: Thompson's an ass. > -----Original Message----- > From: HAL [mailto:hbrandt@milehigh.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:12 PM > To: ghoul world > Subject: hey rube > > > >"This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is > not guaranteed -- > >for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as > George W. Bush. All > >he knows is that his father started the war a long time ago, > and that he, > >the goofy child-President, has been chosen by Fate and the global Oil > >industry to finish it Now. He will declare a National > Security Emergency > and > >clamp down Hard on Everybody, no matter where they live or > why. If the > >guilty won't hold up their hands and confess, he and the > Generals will > >ferret them out by force."-- Hunter S. Thompson > >http://espn.go.com/page2/s/thompson/010912.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:04:04 -0700 From: "Kenneth Johnson" Subject: RE: militarization takes coordination Ken Ostrander writes:> >i had this thought immediately when i first heard about the crashes tuesday >morning. i even had a little debate with someone about it while i was >trying >to get signatures from voters (there weren't many, by the way) to get a >question on the ballot. pearl harbor worked like a charm; and it seems >that >the world trade center incident will have similar potential. already the >flags >are everywhere and there are numerous vigils for solidarity. *sniP* although I would never suggest any complicity on our government's part for the terrorist attacks, I cannot help but imagine G'Dub and his cronies sporting big happy hard-ons now. Welcome to America's Police State. The flag waving and nationalist fervor makes me ill and worried and compounds any terrorism further. >protests planned for clean elections this weekend in boston and against the >imf >and world bank later this month in d.c. have been postponed or cancelled, >along >with a lot of other things. when does it become alright to resume >criticisms >of our government? i'm sorry; but all of the flak that jeme received on >this >list was uncalled for. unfortunately, it's a microcosm example of what is >going on all over this country. people should be upset about this tragedy; >but >they should also be able to think critically. i am an american, living in >america, recognizing that we have more freedoms than many; but that we also >have a great responsibility to the rest of the people in the world that are >oppressed. i really hope that this incident will end the decadence and >start a >new era of activism. there are a lot of problems that are more likely >going to >be swept under the carpet. this incident will undoubtedly usher in even >more >money for the military industrial complex for useless stealth bombers and >missle defense at the expense of a host of other needs. this is simply >wrong. *>snip snip* HERE HERE! the whole bag of shit plays directly into the war-mongering, ultra-right wing fascists in our government and this, second only to the loss of innocent life, is the greatest tragedy to befall this country in recent times. Suppression of evidence, crack down on all dissidents, zero tolerance law enforcement, fear, loathing, bigotry, you name it, now run rampant thanks to those four jet liners Tuesday. As a critical thinker and intelligent ape-beast with a discerning mind and a lover of peace, freedom and diversity, I weep for the fate of this paradigm of democracy. I hoped, too, that the incident would be a wake up call to activists and the righteous causes, but I fear it has only served to wake the beast of intolerance and war. If anything, I think criticism of the government is more important in the days to come than it has ever been. If not open criticism, at least a critical mind opened. ~Kenneth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:13:27 +0000 From: Subject: hi... o gawd it's a rant Just to let you know, I'm incredibly happy that fegs are surviving AFAIK. I'm still a little bit zombiefied by the whole thing. One thing that amazes me is how polarized this list gets at times. It seems hard for me to feel venemously angry at people onlist for stating their views or for exploring possibilities that aren't the blessed popular ones. I feel thousands of feelings right now. Many of them don't seem right next to one another. I think it is true what that now dead Canadian said of the US, that we do a lot of good for the world in terms of relief. I think that some very bad and dangerous effects come as a result of some Americans and parts of our gubmint. Is it possible for me to oppose our foreign policy and be opposed to terrorism? Of course, but I feel frustrated that there is so little gray area in the discourse. If I say "here's why I think these guys did this," it is too easy to bring the wrath of all flag-totin' 'murika on me. As I felt during the Gulf War, when I was opposed to the actions of my government, I feel that I can't wear the flag or ribbons or red, white and blue because the people who think it means ONE THING have taken it from me. It requires too much explanation, so I have to feel as an outsider in my country. I was also profoundly opposed to the actions of the Iraqi gubmint, but I believed- perhaps naively- that there had been some other possibility besides all the killing. There are few things I would put past my government, but am not yet jaded enough to believe that it would orchestrate such a devilish action as the WTC attack. Yet it is not right for me to close my eyes to other possibilities than the very first one that presents itself. I fear my government and their cognitive difficulties. The last thing I would want to do is to go nuts and treat one of my friends on the list as though he or she were the rightful recipient of all the hate in the world. About half of my closest friends are on this list. There isn't a one of you for whom I feel any hatred. I really think we are all in this together. Polyana me- I think I'll spend a little more time feeling grateful for what is left and what is still dear to me before I launch list scuds. And, I think it would be swell for others to cool off a little. I don't feel less a patriot for trying to postpone personal judgement on the cause or the answer. My biggest fear is that the actions of our leaders will be swifter than just and without the requisite understanding of "RESTRAINT" and "PRECISION." Their words. The last thing is that one of my favorite people in the world is of Arab descent. Though he has lived through war in his homeland, he is one of the most sweet and gentle people on earth. In every moment I fear that his physical features will cause him pain. There are hundreds of thousands like him in this country alone. Thanks for still being alive. I've heard that Sharqboy Flambe is a really popular end-of-summer barbeque treat. Have at it. - -Markg, a.k.a. "Sharkboy" or "Sharqboy" or "the dude with the cheese noodle for a brain" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:13:46 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Escapism on 9/14/01 7:24 AM, Viola Rockiss at theyarenotlong@hotmail.com wrote: > In a quest for escapism I purchased 2 mags yesterday, Vanity Fair for stuff > on "Harry Potter" and Wired for the same on "LOTR." Then you would bbe interested in this bit from the current Onion: Sci-Fi Fans Argue The Better Of Two As-Yet-Unreleased Films TULSA, OK Science-fiction fans Pete Carver and Matthew Wynne disagreed sharply Monday on the relative merits of Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone and The Fellowship Of The Ring, neither of which hits theaters for months. "The storyboards for the Quidditch tournament I saw on this one web site look terrible," said the pro-Tolkien Carver. "There's no way that scene can be better than I've heard the Balrog one is." Wynne countered that the set design for the Great Hall of Hogwarts set "will completely blow away" that of the Mines of Moria. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:20:26 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: what do you think? >From: Christopher Gross > >Well, if you don't know what to think, don't start thinking the worst. I appreciate your efforts to counter what was, as I think I said, pretty much just a speculative conversation between a few friends. It spooked me and it's nice to feel a little less spooked. >From: Ken Ostrander >i really hope that this incident will end the decadence "Decadence"? >From: "Mike Wells" > >And Andrew, I think you were reaching a bit there. "Reaching" would imply I actually wanted to obtain something. I think I'm going to try to stop discussing this with people on this list. I get much more out of reading the conversation without participating, and it starts to look as though sharing any thoughts at all causes someone to file me on one "side" or another. That there are "sides" at all in a situation like this is somewhat appalling. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:25:40 -0700 From: "Kenneth Johnson" Subject: RE: hey rube >Thompson's an an ass. disagree > >Any argument with the Middle East and fanatical Islamic factions wasn't >started with the Gulf War, but long before that. We're dealing here with >not just anti-American sentiment, but one that is anti-Semitic and >anti-Western. however, I do find this to be true....I will agree the his pinpointing the source of these attacks to recent Republican administrations is stretching it. It does go back a lot farther than us. Anyone ever heard of the crusades? >Now's really not the time to cast doubt on the competancy of the current >administration. BULLSHIT!!! ON THE CONTRARY, Now is the TIME. WE need to keep them in check. The competancy of any world leader should be scrutinized, especially in times of crisis. Don't worry though, they have a office stocked with people who know how to make war. Of that there is no doubt. My doubts lie in their ability to do the right thing and you will never convince me there is an inapproprite time to keep that in check. Read my lips: whatever military action our goverment and its allies take will only serve to worsen this situation. It could very well get us all killed. So you go on with your complacency and I'll continue to be critical. We may all end up in the same heap anyway. Now is also the time for healing right? to be sensitive and compassionate? ABSOLUTELY. that doesnt mean we lose all critical faculties and just accept what our leaders want us to do. That is a very dangerous line to walk. I am capable of both. > >I'll say it again: Thompson's an ass. I found his piece well reasoned and for the most part accurate. I enjoy his writing. ~Kenneth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:38:55 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: hey rube In regards to supporting the Bush administration: > WE need to keep them in check. > The competancy of any world leader should be scrutinized, > especially in times of crisis. I don't doubt that for a minute, actually. We do need to police the police. > whatever military > action our goverment and its allies take will only serve to > worsen this situation. I doubt this. > Now is also the time for healing right? to be sensitive and > compassionate? Sensitive and compassionate to the victims and their families in this time of loss, yes. To the perpitrators of these actions? Absolutely NOT. Loose the dogs. The below is from Jewish World Review Sept. 12, 2001 / 23 Elul, 5761, writeen by Greg Crosby - --- Plan of action (excerpt) . . . What Should We Do? 1. Right Away: Once we are sure who committed these hateful attacks, we need to take them out. Period. If indeed it is bin Laden, then we should bomb the living hell out of Afghanistan, the country which has been harboring this bum. We need to wipe out not only bin Laden, but his followers, his friends, his arsenal, his cow, his home, his sandals, his comic book collection -- everything. It's time to send a message, folks. And the message better be loud. What was done to America today is unacceptable. 2. Long term: Over the past ten years or so, along with many other aspects of our national defense, funding for international intelligence gathering has been drastically cut. Perhaps the atrocities perpetrated on our nation today might have been averted or lessened had our intelligence systems been stronger and had greater resources at their disposal. We need to strengthen our national security in every way we can, in order to properly protect the citizens of this country against future terrorist attacks. This should be a nation's first responsibility to its people. What Should We Not Do? 1. Stand in a circle in the surf holding hands. 2. Release hundreds of white doves into the sky. 3. Try to "understand" why people do these things. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:59:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: RE: hey rube On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Kenneth Johnson wrote: > >Thompson's an an ass. > > disagree Well, _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ is a great book. But how about his glorification of rape and thuggery as noble rebellion in the Hells Angels book? Maybe he IS an ass. I haven't read the recent article though... Personally, I'm not going to run around trying to undermine Bush until we find out what he's actually going to do; but if he does something stupid, then I might. I'm not sure about bombing the shit out of anyone. On the other hand, I doubt we can rely on a wholly non-military response. Assuming all the evidence points to bin Laden, would Afghanistan really hand him over? And what do we do about the remaining bin-Laden-linked groups, and their backers? I doubt we'll ever see them in court. So I'm willing to support military action ... but only IF we have good evidence who our enemies are, IF all legal means have failed, IF military action is limited as strictly as possible to the guilty parties themselves, IF we actually have a chance to eliminate and IF it doesn't involve us getting into an extended ground war in Afghanistan. But my thinking on the subject is still fluid. Some argue that killing bin Laden would just make him a martyr. Unfortunately, it's too late to hope he'll just fade into obscurity. The only possibilities now may be that he'll be a live hero/inspiration/bankroller, or a dead martyr. The kind of people who would be infuriated by his death are the kind of people who would already have been inspired by his living actions. On the other hand, killing a bunch of Afghan civilians *would* create a lot more enemies, as well as being wrong in itself. I'll shut up now. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:13:26 -0700 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: IRA Stewart writes, >terrorists are good as long as they have nifty ideology? Steweart, I really think that your judgment has been impaired by perhaps being a part of the island the IRA like to bomb. (And I must add, I understand that better than ever.) You continue to misread my statements, as if you *want* to find some impunity; and your sarcasm confuses me. If you could point out just one instance where I said the IRA, or any terrorists, were "good," please let me know. I merely remarked that the IRA has a different ideology and self-image than most Islamic fundamentalists, one that would probably not "support" them hijacking a plane of civilians and crashing it into Harrod's. I am *reporting* on the IRA's *doctrine.* I am not denying at all that they violate that doctrine. I am certainly not excusing them. >> What I stated *is* official IRA doctrine. I have already said >> they do not always follow it, and there are numerous rogue and >> splinter groups. > >The acts I mentioned were all claimed by the Provisional IRA. The pIRA >have been around for as long as I've been remembering, and as the main >direct-action group, are synonymous with the IRA. That is not completely true. >Splinter groups, like >the ones responsible for the Omagh bomb, still operate under the IRA(tm) >brand. Again, not true -- the INLA does not consider themselves to be part of the pIRA. >Their image to whom? One is defined by one's actions. Noble doctrine >means nothing alongside ignoble deeds. Yes, I assume in an ideal world where everyone thought the same about things. But the fact is, an organization's self-image, and the image it has with other various organizations, can all vary widely with interpretations of events and ideology. I for one am done with this thread, if I have not made myself clear by now, I don't think I possess the means. For a really lucid account of the IRA politics, I suggest reading anything by J. Bowyer Bell. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:17:13 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: hey rube - -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Johnson [mailto:madderken13@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:26 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: RE: hey rube >Thompson's an an ass. disagree > >Any argument with the Middle East and fanatical Islamic factions wasn't >started with the Gulf War, but long before that. We're dealing here with >not just anti-American sentiment, but one that is anti-Semitic and >anti-Western. however, I do find this to be true....I will agree the his pinpointing the source of these attacks to recent Republican administrations is stretching it. It does go back a lot farther than us. Anyone ever heard of the crusades? >Now's really not the time to cast doubt on the competancy of the current >administration. >BULLSHIT!!! >ON THE CONTRARY, Now is the TIME. WE need to keep them in check. >The competancy of any world leader should be scrutinized, especially in >times of crisis. Don't worry though, they have a office stocked with people >who know how to make war. Of that there is no doubt. My doubts lie in >their ability to do the right thing and you will never convince me there is >an inapproprite time to keep that in check. Read my lips: whatever military >action our goverment and its allies take will only serve to worsen this >situation. It could very well get us all killed. So you go on with your >complacency and I'll continue to be critical. We may all end up in the same >heap anyway. Chamberlain, came crawling from Munich, with one piece of paper, he held for the camera. "Peace in our time, oh thank you Herr Hitler". Tell that to the Polish, tell that to the Jews. Should we start calling you Mr. Chamberlain? The terrorists have an agenda against us just as the Nazi's had plans for Europe. They must be stopped by military means. We must be prepared to go at this full force, not half assed. The better prepared we are, the less costly it will be for us. We are not talking about some distant war here. They are a threat to us hear and now, and we must act as a coalition of free nations to stamp them out. Don't you get it? Michael _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:25:39 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: Re: hmm... when we last left our heroes, Michael R Godwin (hssmrg@bath.ac.uk) exclaimed: >With reference to recent discussions: could we have a listmeister's ruling >here, please, woj? well, there hasn't been an upswing in unsubs from feg lately (i'm sure the last heated political discussion drove everyone off!), so i don't think there's, at least not obviously, a worry about scaring off people (except for jim davies, of course... ;) ). as far as a moratorium on discussing the attack, i hate to be wishy-washy but i think that's really up to the list's membership. i may manage the list, but i don't set its parameters. fegs are and always have been free to discuss whatever moves them and the attack has surely moved them a lot. i don't think time is going to temper opinions on this matter anytime soon so a moratorium would have to be effectively permanent to be effective and i don't want to ban topics from feg. personally, i think the discussion here, while heated, hasn't really risen to a temperature that we haven't attained before (fucking fuckity fuck, aside). more importantly, the discussion has been significantly more informed and eloquent than some of the other lists i am on. so...i guess i have no direct answer to your question, mike. if people feel they can't take part in the debate without flying off the handle, i hope they'd refrain from participating, but i'd rather not just cut off the debate that is progressing. woj p.s. if it's any comfort, i can be mean and arbitrary. yesterday, i posted to the tori amos mailing list i moderate saying that it was okay to discuss this stuff, but reneged on that decision this morning since the thread there quickly devolved into flames and name-calling and the level of the discussion was remarkably ill-informed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:40:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: hey rube On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Thomas, Ferris wrote: > Now's really not the time to cast doubt on the competancy of the > current administration. I have bad news for you: the rest of the world already knows Bush is a goober. I don't think we're going to fool them by pretending everything he does now is clever. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:26:28 -0400 From: "Poole, R. Edward" Subject: RE: hmm... Someone (not sure who) said: > >Go ahead and unsubscribe then! Mike Godwin: >With reference to recent discussions: could we have a listmeister's ruling >here, please, woj? I know this is a wide-ranging group and I have been >known to drift off-topic myself, but another list that I am on (London and >North Eastern Railway e-group) has banned all off-topic 'political' posts >until the heat dies down. I would hate to see Hitchcock fans leaving the >list - or being urged to leave the list - for non-Hitchcock reasons. I said that, but I agree that the list should not splinter for political reasons. However, I'd hate to see a "ban" on political discussions because you people -- even those with whom I have the strongest of disagreements -- have generated more intelligent discussions of political topics than I have been exposed to at work, among "real world" friends, and, certainly, from the media. I'll agree to ratchet down the "unsubscribe" comments (if Jim agrees not to use unsubscribing as a response to messages I post). ============================================================================This e-mail message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering this confidential communication to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error, and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this e-mail message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this confidential communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail message and permanently delete the original message. To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to postmaster@dsmo.com Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP http://www.legalinnovators.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:43:12 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: hey rube On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 12:57 PM, Thomas, Ferris wrote: > I, for one, would willing to forgo some civil liberties in exchange for > heightened national and local security against any such attacks. OK Thomas, make us a list of civil liberties you'd like to give up. Free speech? The right to vote? The right of association? Let's hear it. Make no mistake, the people on the wrong side of the culture war will try to use this incident to enhance their power. The drumbeat has already started. It's such a joke to hear George W. Bush talking about freedom and democracy, as he doesn't really believe in either. And where's the liberal media? I see that the Clinton News Network is running a waving American flag and a banner proclaiming "America's New War". - - Steve __________ The Bush administration, facing opposition in Congress over proposals to open more of Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico to oil drilling, is exploring ways to speed oil development on federal lands in the West without congressional approval. - Mark Jaffe, Bloomberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:47:14 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: militarization takes coordination >from Jewish World Review Sept. 12, 2001 > We need to wipe out not only > bin Laden, but his...comic book collection I suspect quite a few people on the list will strenuously object to such an extreme, historically irresponsible act of terrorism. >What Should We Not Do? > > 1. Stand in a circle in the surf holding hands. > 2. Release hundreds of white doves into the sky. Mm-hmm. I've always been quizzical at people's overwhelming need to mourn through empty symbolism. "Candlelight vigils" have long been a pet peeve of mine. Really, do candles serve *any* useful purpose in our culture, at this point? ;) Mike: >I pulled into the driveway Tuesday night after watching the shit go down on TV >and listening to the radio at work. My son Matt ran out our screen door >yelling "Daddy! Daddy! Daddy! Pway goff? Pway golf?" with this >million-megawatt smile on his face...and his sister Annie wanted "come play >sand with me, Daddy?". I just sat there stupified in my car looking at them >while the earlier images of the day drained away, replaced by the bittersweet >and CRYSTAL-CLEAR realization that these beautiful children had a Daddy coming >home to see them...and how many would not. I spent the evening tickling them >on the couch, trying to burn their smiles and laughs even deeper into my >psyche. I wonder how many similar versions played out in living rooms across >the country that night. Whew. Someone get me a hankie! Otherwise, I'll just lurk and read the current debate, thanks. Eb, gritting his teeth as he watches Dubya's chances for a second term circumstantially rising ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #350 ********************************