From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #339 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, September 12 2001 Volume 10 : Number 339 Today's Subjects: ----------------- shalom [Michael Wolfe ] Re: shalom [Capuchin ] pictures of WTC [lj lindhurst ] telnet is slow in the old folks' home... ["Natalie Jane" ] ny & dc [melissa ] thanks, plus parochial aside [Jim Davies ] WTO [minister of misinformation ] Re: robynspeak some more [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: just a note from NYC ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Fwd: [Mike's Message] Death, Downtown [Jeff Dwarf ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: shalom I don't know if this is shouting in a hurricane, but. I'm going to try to mediate a little bit. Let me start with a couple of premises. One, no one wants to see anything like this happen again, and discussion of this tragedy should be centered on preventing future tragedies. Two, this was a willed act, not some kind of million-to-one fluke of airline navigation. Three, either the people who willed the act had a reason, or they didn't. Let me just explicitly note that a 'reason' and a 'justification' are two very, VERY seperate things. Though the former is a necessary condition for the latter, a reason for an act alone does not imply that that act is justified. Now, on my three premises, I think we can all agree. Heck, premise three is a tautology. If not, well, I tried. I'll start with premise three. If the people who did this did so for no reason at all, they are clearly madmen. Now, with respect to premise one, how do we protect ourselves from madmen? Literally, anyone could be a madman. If there's no reason, no causal circumstances, there's no possibility of predicting the event and therefore no possibility of averting it short of general paranoia. Or, if you're feeling particularly atavistic, you could direct that paranoia at certain populations based on their skin color. To me, paranoia, general or directed, is unacceptable. You may disagree, and I will respect that. But to me, the trade-offs... the cost is simply too high. To 'protect' yourself against the *possibility* of this horror by implementing the *certainty* of either Big Brother or a race war is no protection. The surgery may be a success, but the patient dies on the table. But again, if you disagree, you're welcome to stop reading here -- I don't think I have anything further to offer you. So, to assume that this horror was simply a random act is a dead end. It may or may not have been, but there's no point in thinking about trying to prevent unpredictable acts. Therefore, in a discussion where we can agree on my three premises, we can conclude that not only were these willed acts, but for purposes of discussion they were committed by people who were acting for a reason. A reason that, in their heads justified these terrible murders. Now. If we're looking for reasons, the US hasn't exactly been a pious choirboy on the world scene in the last 20 years. Without even leaving our hemisphere, in Central America alone, I think only Belize and Costa Rica have *not* been the 'beneficiary' of US foreign policy in the form of death squads (Guatemala, El Salvador), insurgencies (Nicaragua), counter-insurgencies (El Salvador), juntas (Panama), jack-booted union-busting (Coca Cola, Mexico), and environmental depradations (Chiquita, Honduras). Thousands dead in these countries due to our direct and/or indirect influence, easily surpassing the toll in New York today - -- although, granted, over the course of years in their cases. All the same, I'm amazed that Houston, San Diego, and L.A. are still standing, quite frankly. If you want to go back 30 years, there's always millions of dead Vietnamese to account for. Same policies, orders of magnitude more horrifying. The point is not to lay some kind of useless guilt trip on all us Americans here. It is also not, *not*, I repeat NOT to justify or in any way excuse this wretched, inhuman act. The point is that, as a nation, we've given plenty of people plenty of reasons to expend the energy to plot destruction of this enormity. So, now -- aside from it simply being a moral, ethical, and just downright good thing to do from a world citizenship standpoint -- we have another reason to try to be a more positive force in the world. In the interest of premise one, of wanting to stop anything like this from ever happening again, let's stop giving people reasons to do this, shall we? Let's stop lobbing Tomohawk missiles indiscriminately whenever our elected officials deem it expedient to do so because of sagging polls. Let's stop sharking money through the World Bank for ill-conceived development projects and then sending in the IMF (aka "Vinnie") when the inevitable default occurs to implement "structural adjustment" (aka "indentured servitude"). Let's let democratically elected governments rule, instead of sending in the "advisors" when US transnats get skittish about rhetoric involving economic justice in those countries. And let's stop sitting silently while our government does these things in our name. Please? Can anyone else think of any other way that we could take even a glimmer of something positive away from this terribly tragedy? 'cause vengeance just doesn't do it for me. - -Michael Wolfe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: shalom On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Michael Wolfe wrote: > I don't know if this is shouting in a hurricane, but. I'm > going to try to mediate a little bit. [snip] > So, now -- aside from it simply being a moral, ethical, and just > downright good thing to do from a world citizenship standpoint -- > we have another reason to try to be a more positive force in the > world. In the interest of premise one, of wanting to stop > anything like this from ever happening again, let's stop giving > people reasons to do this, shall we? Let's stop lobbing Tomohawk > missiles indiscriminately whenever our elected officials deem it > expedient to do so because of sagging polls. Let's stop sharking > money through the World Bank for ill-conceived development > projects and then sending in the IMF (aka "Vinnie") when the > inevitable default occurs to implement "structural adjustment" > (aka "indentured servitude"). Let's let democratically elected > governments rule, instead of sending in the "advisors" when US > transnats get skittish about rhetoric involving economic justice > in those countries. And let's stop sitting silently while our > government does these things in our name. Please? Can anyone > else think of any other way that we could take even a glimmer of > something positive away from this terribly tragedy? 'cause > vengeance just doesn't do it for me. HEAR HEAR! I would say this is more than mediation, it is a full endorsement of all of my sentiments, but more tactfully stated... or, rather, perhaps it is better if I say that I fully endorse these statements and regardless of how I came across, this is what I meant. Thank you, Michael. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:47:12 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: pictures of WTC It's bare bones, but it *is* timely--these are the pictures I took today: http://www.w-rabbit.com/wtc - -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * LJ Lindhurst White Rabbit Graphic Design http://www.w-rabbit.com NYC ljl@w-rabbit.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:05:25 -0700 From: "Natalie Jane" Subject: telnet is slow in the old folks' home... ... which is where I am now, at my grandmother's place in Buffalo. My sister and I were in the airport when we saw a great number of people gathered around a TV in the bar. I assumed it was some sort of sporting event. It was not a sporting event. When I saw the first tower collapse, I turned to the guy next to me and said, "Did I just see that??" I ran to try and call LJ - my hands were shaking as I counted out the coins and I was starting to cry. All circuits were busy, and I couldn't get through till much later, after I had finally chased down my luggage (note: do not take Jet Blue airlines, especially during a national disaster) and gotten back to my grandmother's place. I still haven't gotten through to my friend Eleanor in the Village. All flights are cancelled so I may be here for a few days. Allen and LJ seem confident that things in NYC will have returned to a semblance of normality by the time I can leave, but I think I might return to nice, safe Portland instead, where all I have to worry about is being beaten by cops. I'm glad to hear that NYC fegs are all right. Take care, everyone. n. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:13:15 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: NY >> Do I understand why someone would be motivated to perpetrate a mass >> killing of US civilians in furtherance of their "cause?" No, I >> certainly do not. > >Well, how do you feel about the US military's mass killings of foreign >civilians in furtherance of their "cause"? ISTR that tthe A bombs dropped on Japan were as much as anything to show that it could be done anywhere, anytime. It had to be taken seriously after that. Surrender followed quickly. Terrorists have frequently said 'we will attack somewhere', but never been really taken seriously. The US - and other governments - now *have* to change their views. That's the reason it was probably done - the 'cause' would have been to wake people up to the fact that (as things stand at the moment) terrorism CAN cause major mayhem. having said that: On today of all days could we have a halt to the ideological bickering? For fuck's sake this is too big to start arguing with each other. I think we can all think of potential reasons this has happened, and we can all see that, to some groups, this would be a reasonable means to some end. We can all (I hope) also agree that the killing of civilians in this way is insupportable. My condolences to everyone touched by this - and that's pretty near everyone. Apologies if I'm making less sense than normal, I was up until about 3am staring at the TV with my mouth hanging open in disbelief, and I didn't sleep much after that, either. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:26:06 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: word from qyrs good news from chris donnell. anybody know what rob leas' address is these days? woj - ----- Forwarded message from Christopher Donnell ----- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Donnell To: woj@smoe.org Cc: ljl@w-rabbit.com Woj (and CCed to LJ) (feel free and post this to the list) I'm alright. I live uptown (105th St) and work down in Times Square, so I don't spend too much time that far downtown. I did notice as I was looking through my address book to send a generic 'I'm alright' message to everyone that Rob Leas, who used to be on the list, is also a New York resident and I knew he worked somewhere financial and somewhere downtown last I knew. His e-mail address I had was "Leas, Rob (leas) Subject: ny & dc i'm still in shock. but i'm happy to see that of the NYC fegs are ok. I can't imagine what it was like to be there and see the collapse and its aftermath. in two weeks i'm going home for a visit for the first time in 8 years. i'm flying united to LA and for the first time ever i'm going to be worried about flying. Melissa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:04:39 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Davies Subject: thanks, plus parochial aside Happened to be watching CNN in the hotel (not much else to watch, apart from HBO Asia) so saw events unfold. It was hard not to laugh at CNN's coverage, which was completely beyond parody; but I guess they did an okay job. Better than BBC World, who were often quite inaccurate. Coverage in Asia has been more complicated. The cruise missile into the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade hasn't been forgotten; neither have the bombardments of South East Asia, the Middle East, and Japan. There's a sense of `we are sorry, but now you see why other people are upset when people bomb their cities'. There's also a tremendous sadness for the state of the world, and a fear that the U.S. might become more xenophobic, more isolationist, and more belligerent. Of course, _quite the opposite_ might happen - we shouldn't underestimate, presume, or despair. As for me, I couldn't get to sleep after seeing the footage of people falling. x Jim Parochial (Robyn) aside: looks like we might not get back to England in time for the Dorset gig. p.s. thanks for the sane postings... particularly Viv and Jeme (hiya)... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:21:00 +0930 From: minister of misinformation Subject: WTO Glad to see that all the NY fegs are ok, even though I don't read the list much you were all on my mind as soon as I heard the news. This act is totally repulsive , as are all acts of violence committed in the name of ideology of whatever kind be they religious or political. What is sad also is that this will bring out all sorts of xenophobic acts against innocent people who are of the same supposed nationality or religion as the perpetrators. Its happening already here on talk back radio in Australia, so go know what it will be like in the states. These events have a habit of bringing out the worst and the best in humanity. Eb wrote I certainly hope this was a joke. Eb yes Eb, it was a joke- I don't REALLY believe you have caused flame wars on dozens of lists, although perhaps its something you could work on when you have some spare time - and yes , Jeme has not shown a great deal of tact in referring to the US foreign policy at this time , even though the same thoughts ran through my mind when I first heard the news , we HAVE perpetrated acts equal to this one - if anyone doubts this refer to John Pilger's documentary on the affects of the sanctions on Iraq, cancer wards with one bottle of aspirin as the only painkiller and an epidemic of cancers caused by the uranium enriched bullets allied forces used during the gulf war, this IS a major crime against humanity, even if we say that our initial intentions were good ( which is of course , in part , debatable ) . However, NOTHING justifies this act, which is as bad as I can ever envisage ( although Tom Clancy did run a similar scenario such as this in one of his drecky novels a few years ago ) its utterly , utterly disgusting and the bastards who perpetrated it should be hunted down mercilessly and rubbed out, even though I don't like the death penalty , you can't allow people like this to be around , they are a threat to our civilization, which even though its imperfect, is better then fucking anarchy such as this. The media unfortunately , are like a pack of ghouls , running the crashes into the towers over and over again from as many angles as possible. I bet the ratings of CNN have gone through the roof. Prime time death and destruction shown in surround sound and slowmo. Humbug ! Commander Lang. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: robynspeak some more ross taylor wrote: > From the Washington, DC show of the Underwater > Moonlight tour: > > [Evil Guy ends] > > That's called Evil Guy. I wouldn't dedicate > that to Mr. Bush. I would never want to destroy > him, because people only learn by example. > What the world needs is more cake, you know, this was the perfect thing to have the first e-mail i read tonight be, especially since my reaction was to go buy a frozen key lime pie when i went grocery shopping this morning..... as for the bombing, good to know everyone's okay ...and whoever did it was probably taught how by our lovely gummint, but that should probably wait a couple days.....timing > and > specifically more meringues. Next time you know > he's in town, surround him with love, but make > that love something tangible. It's no good him > just walking out in the morning wearing his tie > thinking, sshm, I smell love. Or, you know, I > feel Donna Summer in my pocket or something. You > have to manifest things. Now when we were young > we tried to levitate the Pentagon. But Morris, > Kim, Andy[?] and I were only thirteen. But we > were bussed over in a special hippie plane to > help levitate the Pentagon. And we were too > young to be allowed into the inner circle, so we > became deeply nihilistic instead. And the rest > is history! But we've learned now not to be > cynical just because we were defeated once by > things we didn't understand. So. What I say to > you now in total confidence, cause I know no one > can hear, is go out and get some meringues, > meringues of love, and surround that big ol' > White House next time Dubya's in there playing > golf, or whatever -- they do in there. Snacks > at six o'clock or whatever. And see what > happens. Use a lot of meringues, not just a > couple of meringures. Nothing low key. A very > powerful thing. Maybe even if you've got life > savings or wealthy friends tell them to sell > their condos in Virginia Beach and Rehobeth and > Bethany and turn it into meringue stock. The > market is going down all the time now, why put > it in realty, or reality, there's only one > letter's difference between the two, put it in > meringues and get it to Dubya. Thank you. > > One, two, three -- [Leppo] > > > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail > account at http://www.eudoramail.com ===== "Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." -- Mark Twain "The divinity of Jesus has been made a convenient cover for every absurdity." -- John Adams "The jury is the last line of defense against corporate misconduct." -- Craig McDonald, Texans for Public Justice Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:37:32 +0100 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: just a note from NYC lj lindhurst wrote: > > You guys would not even believe the surreal world we are in right > now... Surreal by proxy here... crowds of people outside electrical stores, gawping at the pictures on TV... web and phone connections in this office wedged... a Glasgow bus company shutting down its entire service (why?)... no-fly zone over London (which makes us in the provinces real happy)... all lines to the States jammed; dial 001+Area Code: dead line tone... And all that sticks in my mind is that, while I was buying a radio to keep up with events, the mall muzak system was playing a soft symphonic version of "What's the frequency, Kenneth?". hope you and yours are okay -- keep the heid. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:14:29 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: sadness On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Michael Wolfe wrote: > I'm so very, very glad to hear from the New York fegs. Ken, > Chris, lj, Allen, Mary -- good to hear from all of you. Hope to > hear a full accounting of anyone not in that list, if that isn't > everyone on/near Manhattan. Seconded. I've just seen Ken's disturbing video. What is that light at the end of the column of smoke? - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:29:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Fwd: [Mike's Message] Death, Downtown - --- Michael Moore wrote: > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:10:17 -0400 > To: michaelmoore-l@cloud9.net > From: Michael Moore > Subject: [Mike's Message] Death, Downtown > Reply-to: mikemail@cloud9.net > > Death, Downtown > > Dear friends, > > I was supposed to fly today on the 4:30 PM American Airlines flight > from > LAX to JFK. But tonight I find myself stuck in L.A. with an > incredible > range of emotions over what has happened on the island where I work > and > live in New York City. > > My wife and I spent the first hours of the day -- after being > awakened by > phone calls from our parents at 6:40am PT -- trying to contact our > daughter > at school in New York and our friend JoAnn who works near the World > Trade > Center. > > I called JoAnn at her office. As someone picked up, the first tower > imploded, and the person answering the phone screamed and ran out, > leaving > me no clue as to whether or not she or JoAnn would live. > > It was a sick, horrible, frightening day. > > On December 27, 1985 I found myself caught in the middle of a > terrorist > incident at the Vienna airport -- which left 30 people dead, both > there and > at the Rome airport. (The machine-gunning of passengers in each city > was > timed to occur at the same moment.) > > I do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still > brings up > too much despair and confusion as to how and why I got to live a > fluke, a > mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and I am still here, there but for > the > grace of > > Safe. Secure. Im an American, living in America. I like my > illusions. I > walk through a metal detector, I put my carry-ons through an x-ray > machine, > and I know all will be well. > > Heres a short list of my experiences lately with airport security: > > * At the Newark Airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. The > counter cant find my seat. So I am told to just go ahead and get > on -- > without a ticket! > > * At Detroit Metro Airport, I dont want to put the lunch I just > bought at > the deli through the x-ray machine so, as I pass through the metal > detector, I hand the sack to the guard through the space between the > detector and the x-ray machine. I tell him Its just a sandwich. He > > believes me and doesnt bother to check. The sack has gone through > neither > security device. > > * At LaGuardia in New York, I check a piece of luggage, but decide to > catch > a later plane. The first plane leaves without me, but with my bag -- > no one > knowing what is in it. > > * Back in Detroit, I take my time getting off the commuter plane. By > the > time I have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers > to the > terminal has left -- without me. I am alone on the tarmac, free to > wander > wherever I want. So I do. Eventually, I flag down a pick-up truck and > an > airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the > terminal. > > * I have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion > brought a > hammer and chisel. No one stopped us. > > Of course, I have gotten away with all of this because the airlines > consider my safety SO important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour > to make > sure the bad guys dont get on my plane. That is what my life is > worth -- > less than the cost of an oil change. > > Too harsh, you say? Well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on > American > Eagle (the commuter arm of American Airlines) receives around $15,000 > a > year in annual pay. > > Thats right -- $15,000 for the person who has your life in his > hands. > Until recently, Continental Express paid a little over $13,000 a > year. > There was one guy, an American Eagle pilot, who had four kids so he > went > down to the welfare office and applied for food stamps -- and he was > eligible! > > Someone on welfare is flying my plane? Is this for real? Yes, it is. > > So spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the > FAA is > taking. They, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing -- > the > bottom line and the profit margin. > > Four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security > on the > same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? > My only > response is -- thats all? > > Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the > terrorist threat and todays scariest dude on planet earth -- Osama > bin > Laden. Hey, who knows, maybe he did it. But, something just doesnt > add up. > > Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a > desert > has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo > jets > with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three > targets > without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? > > Or am I being asked to believe that there were four > religious/political > fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST > HAPPENED > to want to kill themselves today? > > Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause > -- but > FOUR? Ok, maybe you can -- I dont know. > > What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about > this bin > Laden guy except this one fact -- WE created the monster known as > Osama bin > Laden! > > Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA! > > Dont take my word for it -- I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that > laid it > all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained > him > and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the > Soviet > forces. It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful > for > what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same > techniques > against us. > > We abhor terrorism -- unless were the ones doing the terrorizing. > > We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in > the > 1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work. You and > me. > Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers! > > We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of > innocent > people, and we never let the human suffering THAT causes to interrupt > our > day one single bit. > > We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the > world, with > our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in > Salvador) > that I suppose we shouldnt be too surprised when those orphans grow > up and > are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped > cause. > > Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted > by a > guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of > ex-military > guys who hated the federal government. > > From the first minutes of todays events, I never heard that > possibility > suggested. Why is that? > > Maybe its because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient > in > getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the > all-important race card. Its much easier to get us to hate when the > object > of our hatred doesnt look like us. > > Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money for the > > military; one Senator on CNN even said he didnt want to hear any > more talk > about more money for education or health care -- we should have only > one > priority: our self-defense. > > Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure > when > the rest of the world isnt living in poverty so we can have nice > running > shoes? > > In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. > He > withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban > conference > on racism, insists on restarting the arms race -- you name it, and > Baby > Bush has blown it all. > > The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous > version of > God Bless America. Theyre not a bad group of singers! > > Yes, God, please do bless us. > > Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. > They > did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then > they > did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! > Boston, New > York, DC, and the planes destination of California -- these were > places > that voted AGAINST Bush! > > Why kill them? Why kill anyone? Such insanity > > Lets mourn, lets grieve, and when its appropriate lets examine > our > contribution to the unsafe world we live in. > > It doesnt have to be like this > > Yours, > > Michael Moore > mmflint@aol.com > ===== "Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." -- Mark Twain "The divinity of Jesus has been made a convenient cover for every absurdity." -- John Adams "The jury is the last line of defense against corporate misconduct." -- Craig McDonald, Texans for Public Justice Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #339 ********************************