From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #272 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 10 : Number 272 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: diphthongs and ITA-? thought you might find interesting [Ken Weingold] Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! [Christopher Gross ] Re: ae [Ken Weingold ] yawn [gnat@shaft.bitmine.net] Re: ae [Capuchin ] tell me sweet little lyes ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: ae [Ken Weingold ] Fun with Shaw [Glen Uber ] Re: ae [Capuchin ] Re: ae ["da9ve stovall" ] Re: ae [Capuchin ] Organic Stupidity (mine, that is) [Michael Wolfe ] Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! ["Motherfucking Asshole" ] Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! ["Sweet & Tender Hooligan" ] Re: cho cho cho ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Daly [Brett Cooper ] Re: My Dream Concert Festival. [Eb ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #271 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Quasi [Eb ] Re: ae [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:13:26 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: diphthongs and ITA-? thought you might find interesting On Wed, Jul 11, 2001, lj lindhurst wrote: > Was anyone else subjected to this system? Brits, maybe? I have > never met anyone who's even HEARD of ITA, muchless forced to learn it > in Kindergarten... Never heard of something like that being taught to someone at this level. Personally, it sounds like it would be more trouble than good. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! Eddie, if you watch Fight Club to the end, you might not like it any better, but at least the main characters' actions will make more sense. A little spoiler space: ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ) _ + On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, JH3 wrote: > I shouldn't speak on Eddie's behalf, but why should any self- > respecting political dissident enjoy a movie that suggests that > wanting to dismantle or demolish the trappings of modern > corporatized "culture" must somehow require you to be a > totally fucked-up schizophrenic? Or, in the case of Brad Pitt's > army of followers, an unquestioning skinhead thug? I don't think it suggested that at all. When Thelma and Louise showed two women fleeing to Mexico after killing a rapist, did this suggest that you somehow must be a woman who's killed a rapist in order to drive to Mexico? ... Fight Club showed *a* schizophrenic rebelling against corporate culture, but didn't suggest he rebelled *because* he was crazy. Rather, the movie says that modern corporate culture (among other things) is what drove him crazy in the first place, so his rebellion is shown as justified, if a tad overdone. I have even less right than you to speak on Eddie's behalf, but I'd guess his reaction would be, sure, corporate life can drive white male office workers crazy, but that's the least of its problems. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:42:21 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: diphthongs and ITA-? thought you might find interesting On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, lj lindhurst wrote: > Was anyone else subjected to this system? Brits, maybe? I have > never met anyone who's even HEARD of ITA, muchless forced to learn it > in Kindergarten... Yes, there was a huge fuss about it a long long time ago - the 60s, probably. The theory was that English spelling was confusing (ridiculous really, anyone can cope with rough tough bough sough lough cough and all those other easy-to-pronounce words). > "They become proficient readers and writers without struggling with > complex spelling patterns in the beginning stages of literacy > development". Oh yeah? The idea was that kids would learn this "consistent" ITA spelling to get them started, and then they would readily transfer to real spelling after 2 or 3 years. The trouble was - as any fule can see - that it was just an extra hurdle for people who had trouble spelling, and it was larffably easy and pointless for everbode else. Eventually the crazed reformers were hung, drawn and quartered or burned at the stake and we went back to standard spelling. I blame Bernard Shaw for starting people thinking along these lines. Wasn't there a "spelling reform" e-mail doing the rounds a year or so ago which illustrated the pitfalls of these schemes? - - Mike Godwin PS Next time you're in Bath, check out the spelling of Kingston Buildings behind the Abbey. You'll find that it's in Pitman's reformed orthography (or some such name) and all the NGs look like funny looking Ns with a dropped tail like on a small G. O tempora, O mores! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:54:33 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: ae On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > I don't think I've ever seen that spelling [esthetics] used by *anyone*. I've definitely seen it, but I averted my eyes quickly. > "Aegis" is always spelled that way, so far as I know. Why? Either you're going to abolish diphthongs or you ain't! > What I want to know is, when British newspapers write about the US > Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Labor, do they use the spellings > "Defence" and "Labour"? Yes, but the only one we've heard of is Robert Reich, so it doesn't come up very often :) - - Mike Godwin PS to Ken: AFAIK, encyclopaedia and encyclopedia are pronounced the same. PPS I read a book the other day published by Cape in London, written by a member of the British School of Archaeology in Athens, and all the spelling was American (except supercede, which was just plain wrong). It even referred to 'Scotch whiskey'! Aaaargh!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:03:07 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: ae On Wed, Jul 11, 2001, Michael R Godwin wrote: > PS to Ken: AFAIK, encyclopaedia and encyclopedia are pronounced the same. Ah, ok. Then I would think that 'ae' in this case is not a diphthong. Diphthongs would be phonology, not orthography. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:26 -0700 (PDT) From: gnat@shaft.bitmine.net Subject: yawn > But still -- wow! Eddie, how can you not like Fight Club? Crazy > insomniacs? Therapy-group junkies? Unfocused white male rage? You just answered your own question, Quail. n. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: ae On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Michael R Godwin wrote: > > "Aegis" is always spelled that way, so far as I know. > > Why? Either you're going to abolish diphthongs or you ain't! Unfortunately we're stuck with monstrosities like the short i sound. My friend Nathan and I worked out a phonetic alphabet once where there was a vowel for every single vowel sound and the consonants were accented to show whether they are vocalized or merely fricative. So the "sh" sound and j were the same letter, but one is vocalized and the other is just air. So we removed the letter c entirely, used a single for s and z, k and g, p and b, etc. It was fun, anyway. If you pronounced everything strictly by the rules and spelled everything as it's spoken here in Portland, Oregon (by us speakers of uninflected english), then it sounded pretty good most of the time. And there were something like seventeen letters. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:19:22 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: tell me sweet little lyes >From: steve >Subject: Final Fantasy spoiler? > >http://www.killermovies.com/articles/newsid_98782089517799.shtm That _is_ a spoiler! I didn't realize the main character was an animate skeleton! You could snap her arms just by looking at them! Is this really what he-men find sexy these days? >From: Jeff Dwarf >Brian was also once told by Boy George that he was "gorgeous." GIF! >From: Capuchin > >By the way, is your "home town" where you live, where you spent more of >your formative years, or where you were born? If the answers to those three questions are different -- it is for me -- it probably means the whole concept is outdated. For the record: San Bruno, CA; either Oneida, NY or W. Columbia, SC; Huntsville, AL. >From: "Sirloin Stockade" > >what happened, just out of curiosity? i quit watching at the scene where >brad pitt put the acid on edward norton, and edward norton kept whining >about how much it hurt instead of leaping over the table and beating the >shit out of him (which he OBVIOUSLY would have done had it hurt as much as >he we're supposed to believe it did). i mean, the movie sucked up to that >point anyway. but the was the final straw. Maybe if you had kept watching that scene would have made more sense to you. >From: Marshall Needleman Armintor >[Supertoys Last All Summer Long] > Recently, after reading the Aldiss story on which it's based (it's >somewhere online), I felt this sense of dread going in...that there was no >way Spielberg could live up to that little seven-page parable. I wasn't all that blown away by the Aldiss story, to be honest. I think my problem is that I get too hung up on how lousy the prose is to be impressed by the ideas. >Ebert spent most of his print review of A.I. >openly mocking the logic of some of David's behavior in the light of the >fact that he's a programmable machine. Ebert's review sucked ass. >From: The Great Quail > >PS: I am really looking forward to Jurassic Park III. It looks like >they have finally jettisoned all plot and just gone straight for the >DINOSAURS! Big, scary, man-eating dinosaurs on land, air and sea! >DINOSAURS, Eddie! I love this paragraph. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:33:55 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: ae On Wed, Jul 11, 2001, Capuchin wrote: > My friend Nathan and I worked out a phonetic alphabet once where there was > a vowel for every single vowel sound and the consonants were accented to > show whether they are vocalized or merely fricative. It would be 'voiced' and 'non-voiced'. You can have a voiced fricative. 'v' or 'z', for example. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:33:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Uber Subject: Fun with Shaw On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Michael R Godwin wrote: >I blame Bernard Shaw for starting people thinking along these lines. >Wasn't there a "spelling reform" e-mail doing the rounds a year or so ago >which illustrated the pitfalls of these schemes? Shaw pointed out that not only could fish be spelled 'ghoti,' but potato could be rendered as 'ghoughbteighpteau' the logic being thus: The 'gh' in 'hiccough' The 'ough' in 'though' The 'bt' in 'doubt' The 'eigh' in 'sleigh' The 'pt' in 'ptomaine' The 'eau' in 'bureau' - -- Cheers! - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: ae On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Ken Weingold wrote: > It would be 'voiced' and 'non-voiced'. You can have a voiced > fricative. 'v' or 'z', for example. Well, v and f were the same character, differently accented. And, as I said, s and z. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:01:14 -0700 From: "da9ve stovall" Subject: Re: ae >From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) >Subject: Re: ae > >>What is the proper term for that half-a, half-e character you see in Latin? >>You know, like in "Aeneid" and "Caesar"? Does it start with "elig..."? > >they're called diphthongs or ligatures. Still used (but dying out) in >British English in places where Americans have dropped to just using an 'e' >(like encyclopaedia, haemophilia, amoeba, anaesthetic, etc). > >Technically ligatures are any combination of two letters written as one - >diphthongs are only the ae and oe combinations. > >James (who writes an occasional fanzine called Amoeba, using the oe diphthong) > My impression was that a diphthong was any vowel sound that is pronounced as two "pure" vowel sounds blending together, and whether they were written with one character or the two conjoined characters comprising a ligature was another matter. Thus, the long "i" sound, though spelled with only the letter 'i' is a diphthong since it's pronounced with the a (like in 'father') and the long 'e' sound blending together. The online Britannica agrees: " diphthong Encyclopfdia Britannica Article in phonetics, a gliding vowel in the articulation of which there is a continuous transition from one position to another. Diphthongs are to be contrasted in this respect with so-called pure vowelsi.e., unchanging, or steady state, vowels. Though they are single speech sounds, diphthongs are usually represented, in a phonetic transcription of speech, by means of a pair of characters indicating the initial and final configurations of the vocal tract. Many of the vowel sounds in most dialects of English are diphthongs: e.g., the vowels of out and ice, represented as [au] and [ai], respectively. " A ligature seems to be more commonly used to refer to a bit of musical notation, though also to the conjoined pairs of letters we're talking about. Also, since I'm a geek, ASCII 0198 gives me F (upper case AE, in case it doesn't get displayed right), while ASCII 0230 gives me f (lower case ae). NOT having a busy day at work, da9ve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: ae On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, da9ve stovall wrote: > Also, since I'm a geek, > ASCII 0198 gives me F (upper case AE, in case it doesn't get > displayed right), while > ASCII 0230 gives me f (lower case ae). Well, as a geek, you might recall that mail was originally specced for 7 bit ascii, so anything above 127 isn't going to display the way you expect. Mail agents today largely respect character set identification in the headers, however, and can pass on 8 bit characters... anything wider than that, and you're probably sending some VERY odd control characters in your data stream. > NOT having a busy day at work, That makes two of us. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Organic Stupidity (mine, that is) Quail handed down from on high the following: >While there were some plot holes, and I think the ending was >marred by too much clunky exposition and redundancies, overall >it's one of my favorite movies this year. (Momento and Moulin >Rouge are the other two.) MEMENTO, goddamnit, MEMENTO, man! Thank you. >(Johnny Williams critique) Um, whoops. Sorry about that Quail. I knew you had strong feelings about this joker, but for some indiscernable reason I was under the impression that you were an apologist for Williams, rather than a detractor. Didn't mean to indirectly besmirch your critical faculties there, Quail old bean. And, Williams ripped off our boy Igor for JAWS? In the immortal words of Walter Sobchak, I did not know that. Actually, bits of the JAWS score that stay with me the most are the bits where the boat with Robert Shaw, Roy Scheider, and Richard Dreyfuss are all going out to sea to hunt the shark. That was pretty cool, I thought. - -Michael Wolfe "And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man." "You mean... beyond pacifism?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:23:10 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! perhaps i will. one of my favourite activities these days is checking out movies from the library, watching them, then returning them. i can't even recall the last movie i saw in the cinema. O Brother, Where Art Thou?, maybe. oh, yeah. i did see The Luzhin Defence (which sucked, save for emily watson). hmmm...i'll almost certainly see Ghost World, The Man Who Wasn't There, and Lord Of The Rings (though i don't have high hopes for this last). other than that, nothing really turns my head. why, within just the last few weeks, i've screened three classics which i'd somehow theretofore avoided seeing. here's a brief report: - --Rebel Without A Cause. perhaps the most overrated piece of crap i have EVER seen. DAMN, that movie stanks! - --Nashville. good, but not nearly so good as i'd been expecting. - --A Passage To India. superior. possibly cracks my all-time top-thirty. if i may be permitted to side with the glenster, i can't stand movies wherein the characters' actions don't make any sense. so, who's ever heard of an apartment spontaneously exploding? (okay, the apartment wasn't a "character", strictly speaking.) who can believe for HALF A SECOND that he'd have gone out to a bar after, or that he'd have returned to brad pitt's lair? who can believe that the fight club would become such a huge phenomenon? and the whole focus group "addiction" to cure insomnia thing? give me a FUCKING break? to quote mr. johnnie cochran: "chewbacca lives on endor. that does not make sense!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Motherfucking Asshole wrote: > if i may be permitted to side with the glenster, i can't stand movies > wherein the characters' actions don't make any sense. so, who's ever > heard of an apartment spontaneously exploding? (okay, the apartment > wasn't a "character", strictly speaking.) who can believe for HALF A > SECOND that he'd have gone out to a bar after, or that he'd have > returned to brad pitt's lair? For the answers to the above, watch the rest of the movie. > who can believe that the fight club would become such a huge > phenomenon? I bought that part easiest of all. I think there are a whole lot of men out there who would love to join a "fight club"... I also think that involvement in a "fringe group" is one of the best ways to get a person thinking critically about their culture. > and the whole focus group "addiction" to cure insomnia thing? It wasn't to cure insomnia... the insomnia and the focus groups were symptom of the same illness (i.e. being disenfranchised and disconnected from humanity). Oh, and watch the rest of the movie. > give me a FUCKING break? to quote mr. johnnie cochran: "chewbacca > lives on endor. that does not make sense!" See, eddie, I had the exact same reservations and I guess I had a bit of inspiration or something that allowed me to piece it together and make sense of it. In the end, though, it's pretty much all handed to you with a little bow. Now, as for the ending, people rave about it. I thought it was crap. Sure, it was well-shot and the song is a good one and all that, but I MUCH prefered the ending in the book (which I read after). J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:36:17 -0500 From: "Sweet & Tender Hooligan" Subject: Re: A.I. Fight Club, now with dinosaurs! > if i may be permitted to side with the glenster, i > can't stand movies wherein the characters' actions > don't make any sense. so, who's ever heard of an > apartment spontaneously exploding? (okay, the apartment > wasn't a "character", strictly speaking.) who can > believe for HALF A SECOND that he'd have gone out to > a bar after, or that he'd have returned to brad pitt's > lair? All of these questions, believe it or not, are answered if you watch the rest of the film. I liked the film very much - but only after I'd watched it 3 times. paul christian glenn | pcg@runbox.com "And then I lost it. I kinda lost it all, you know? Faith, dignity, about fifteen pounds..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:37:24 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: cho cho cho on 7/10/01 11:29 PM, Andrew D. Simchik at drew@stormgreen.com wrote: >> (Sorry Margaret...I couldn't think of a better adjective which started >> with "b.") > > "boss" > "bodacious" > "babelicious" "overrated" "unfunny" "non-celebrity" nfs: server 172.17.140.21 not responding, still trying, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:49:39 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: cho cho cho At 01:37 PM 7/11/2001 -0700, Tom Clark wrote: >on 7/10/01 11:29 PM, Andrew D. Simchik at drew@stormgreen.com wrote: > > >> (Sorry Margaret...I couldn't think of a better adjective which started > >> with "b.") > > > > "boss" > > "bodacious" > > "babelicious" > >"overrated" >"unfunny" >"non-celebrity" Those are also matters of opinion, but not as good as mine because they don't start with B. Sucka. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:14:59 -0800 From: Brett Cooper Subject: Daly Looks like MTV put Carson Daly on a diet. He seems to have lost some weight. Brett ******************************************** Cooper Collections http://home.gci.net/~coopercollections ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:27:27 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: My Dream Concert Festival. >In my dreams I would want this as a touring concert festival, like the >Palooza tour and that sort. All post 77 bands. Anybody else ever think of >this crap? Aside from the headliner and opening act these are in no real >order. > > The Feelies (Opening act) > The Chameleons > Thin White Rope > The Chills > The Soft Boys(with Andy, sorry Matthew) > The Pixies > The Clash (headliners) Mmm...based on whom I've never seen, as opposed to who is necessarily the *best*.... Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band Talking Heads (reunited) XTC Kate Bush Brian Eno (pop/rock material) Robert Wyatt The 3Ds (reunited) Suuuure....this will happen, any day now. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:32:32 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #271 >PS Bad news about Fred Neil: 'The other side of this life' was always a >favourite song of mine. Apparently he spent the last 20 years playing >music to dolphins rather than people. including, presumably, his wonderful song "Dolphins", sung notably by Beth Orton and Billy Bragg (though not together sadly - now that would be something to hear!) James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:41:00 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Quasi Excellent show, last night...in fact, all three bands were enjoyable. First up was Stella Maris. The name didn't ring a bell with me, but the group seems to be personally endorsed by Janet Weiss (who even sang back-up on the set's final song). Strong female vocals intertwined with moody, understated rock. More concerned with rhythmic pace than melody. Not bad at all. The keyboardist had an amusing "facade" for his keyboard stand -- black felt with a tacky, swirling pattern of tiny pink lights. No. 2 was number two. No. 2 is descended from Heatmiser, the band which once included both Elliott Smith and Quasi's Sam Coomes. The sound was basically standard indie-rock by a standard guitar/bass/drums trio, but the melodies were put together much better than the norm. Not bad at all. Wouldn't mind checking out their album. The house was quite full by the time Quasi started its set. A pleasant surprise. Hopefully, these fans enjoy Quasi as an independent entity, and aren't just fans of Sleater-Kinney and/or Elliott Smith. I remain leery about Quasi being so closely associated with those two bigger names -- they have too much talent to be perceived as a side project. (And please don't make me choose between Quasi and Sleater-Kinney...too close to call.) Quasi performed a great set. Weiss is now playing occasional keyboard as well as drums, and she had a small keyboard sitting adjacent to her drum kit. On one song, she played keyboard with her right hand while playing drums with her feet and left hand. Giddy flashbacks of the Lonesome Organist! Oh my, is she fun to watch. I do have two mild criticisms. I like the character of her singing voice a lot, but I wish her pitch wasn't so frequently off-center. Also, she's an admirably powerful drummer, but she seems stumped for a way to tone it down during quieter songs. Not real soulful, in those situations. Coomes stuck to his one gritty-toned keyboard, but also played guitar for a five-song stretch in the middle. My attention never wandered -- I enjoyed pretty much every song they chose to play. I had forgot how much I love "It's Hard to Turn Me On"...Coomes is great when he's in that majestic Lennon-ballad mode. Everyone comments on the novelty of Quasi's two-instrument attack, but the group also breaks the rules in other subtler ways. First, there are Coomes' tricky, baroque-style chords, which are rarely found in underground rock. Coomes likes diminished chords *almost* as much as the Verlaines' Graeme Downes. ;) He also structures songs in unusual ways, with extended introductions and codas that casually defy the typical pop-song format. Count me in! It's a shame the merchandise table couldn't offer the new album (arriving in stores on the 17th?), because I think a slew of copies would have sold. Quasi's set wasn't especially long (about a hour), but Spaceland gigs always run late because the first band rarely begins before 9:30. I believe the music ended about 12:45 am, tonight. In da house: Ric Menck (drummer for the Velvet Crush, Liz Phair, Matthew Sweet, etc.) and Lou Barlow (Sebadoh, the Folk Implosion). Actually, I ended up having an unexpected, lengthy chat with Barlow after the show, when hardly anyone else was left in the place. It was mostly about Nuggets II, Gram Parsons and related cult-'60s music. He's really into this stuff, and had all sorts of friendly quibbles about which hopelessly obscure bands were left off Nuggets II's tracklist. :) I know plenty of people think he's a primadonna/dick/whatever, but hey, I have no complaints. I hadn't talked to him in awhile, but had hedged on approaching him at several recent shows (like last month's Foetus gig at the same venue). Based on last night's conversation, it sounds like he has noticed *me* at plenty of shows too, but was similarly insecure about saying hello. Heh. I arrived in the area a bit late, but made a speedy trip to nearby Rockaway Records before the show. In the brief 20 minutes left of the store's operating hours, I managed to spend more money in one music-shopping trip than I've spent in quite awhile (just under $40). I grabbed hard-to-find discounted promos of Lyle Lovett's I Love Everybody, the Band's self-titled album (the remastered reissue with bonus tracks), the two-disc Flying Burrito Brothers compilation which came out last year and (FINALLY!) the Flaming Lips' The Soft Bulletin. Jeeeesus, it's nice to finally cross that one off my mental shopping list. I'm also eager to check out the Burritos compilation -- I'm mildly underexposed to that band, and in fact, never owned a full Burritos album before now (I did have a homemade compilation tape). Adverb, Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:45:06 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: ae >Are something like 'encyclopaedia' and 'encyclopedia' actually >pronounced differently? yes. The second one gets an American accent ;) seriously, I've never heard the accent difference, but seeing words without the 'a' does grate on my eyes a bit. > The Brits stopped using the oe diphthong in a lot of words like > oecumenical and oeconomical quite a long time ago (19th C? 18th?) > although oenology (study of wine) is still in current UK use. well, I mentioned amoeba - another example is oesophagus - do Americans use this spelling, or does the 'o' drop? At least they don't fly in Eroplanes (although they do talk of Eons, IIRC). >I don't think I've ever seen that spelling used by *anyone*. Maybe I'm >just blocking out the memory, since it's so aesthetically unappealing.... >The ae ligature *usually* becomes a simple e in American English, but >there are exceptions. I've read text books on 'esthetics', so yes it is used, sadly. One interesting case is Aether/Ether, where the two words now have subtly different meanings. One ligature that is still used throughout the English speaking world (though few realise it is one) is the ampersand &, which is a stylised 'et'. >What I want to know is, when British newspapers write about the US >Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Labor, do they use the spellings >"Defence" and "Labour"? I think they use the American spellings, because it's part of their title, same as we here talk about the Australian Labor Party, whereas the NZ Labour Party is just that. One thing that is slowly creeping in here (to my slight disgust) is the American pronunciation of defence (DEEE-fence), as opposed to the former, British, standards (duh-FENCE). James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #272 ********************************