From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #267 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, July 9 2001 Volume 10 : Number 267 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Any Game Theory fans? [steve ] ablumz [bayard ] Re: ablumz ["Bret" ] Re: ablumz ["J. Brown" ] Re: Any Game Theory fans? ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Re: Any Game Theory fans? [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Any Game Theory fans? [steve ] Re: ablumz [Capuchin ] Re: ablumz [bayard ] MP3 Question [Mike Swedene ] (Part of) An Evening With Wild Man Fischer [Eb ] RE: Any Game Theory fans? ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: ablumz [Eb ] Reap whooossshhhh! [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 19:11:25 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Any Game Theory fans? On Saturday, July 7, 2001, at 06:31 PM, Eb wrote: > Eb, who still thinks The Big Shot Chronicles is the most essential Scott > Miller release, and isn't jumping on the "Lolita Nation is the longest and > most pretentious, so it must be the best" bandwagon It must be my proggie inclination, but I don't find Lolita Nation to be pretentious (or difficult). Basically, it rocks. - - Steve __________ [The Court searched] mightily for a way, any way at all, to aid their choice for president, Bush, in the suppression of the truth, finally settling, in their judicial coup d'Itat, on the untenable argument that there was a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause... - Vincent Buglioso, on Bush v. Gore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: ablumz > Every so often, I see a comment like this. It always puzzles me, because I > *never* thought "album" necessarily indicated 12" vinyl rather than CD or > cassette. I mean, is there really anyone who would say he/she owned XXX > "albums," meaning exclusively vinyl? "Record" and "LP" correspond closely > to vinyl, but not "album." At least, from my perspective. "album" comes originally from the cardboard jacket used to house the vinyl. that's why the term is more commonly associated with records. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:13:47 -0700 From: "Bret" Subject: Re: ablumz Hmm I always wondered why "record" is so closely tied to vinyl, ("LP" I understand) and not tied to "recording" I thought it was always a record regardless to the format (media). > > Every so often, I see a comment like this. It always puzzles me, because I > > *never* thought "album" necessarily indicated 12" vinyl rather than CD or > > cassette. I mean, is there really anyone who would say he/she owned XXX > > "albums," meaning exclusively vinyl? "Record" and "LP" correspond closely > > to vinyl, but not "album." At least, from my perspective. > > "album" comes originally from the cardboard jacket used to house the > vinyl. that's why the term is more commonly associated with records. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:12:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: ablumz On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, bayard wrote: > > Every so often, I see a comment like this. It always puzzles me, because I > > *never* thought "album" necessarily indicated 12" vinyl rather than CD or > > cassette. I mean, is there really anyone who would say he/she owned XXX > > "albums," meaning exclusively vinyl? "Record" and "LP" correspond closely > > to vinyl, but not "album." At least, from my perspective. > > "album" comes originally from the cardboard jacket used to house the > vinyl. that's why the term is more commonly associated with records. No it doesnt. It comes from shellac 78s. You could buy a set of usually five but sometimes more 10 inch 78 RPM shellac records with one song on each side that would come in a binder type book that resembles a photo album. So it was an album of records. I have once such album in my collection it's the original cast recording of Brigadoon. the concept of an album existed before vinyl and exists today. Its an artistically constructed collection of songs not a format. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Life boring when you no can die" -Solomon Grundy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:49:13 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Any Game Theory fans? >From: steve > >Eh.....It's certainly worth listening to. But keep looking for Lolita >Nation. Actually, the The Loud Family site says the Game Theory albums >are fetching pretty good bucks on eBay. Actually, I do own that Lolita Nation CD. It's actually my second copy -- the first I had was stolen, so a week later I went to a used CD store around the corner and picked up another one. And they are fetching about $30 on eBay. >From: Eb > >Here we go with the "album" thing, again. I assume you mean a vinyl LP? I'm >guessing $10 or so. I'm not sure whether Alias still has the reissue CD in >print or not...that would be the key variable. Well, to *me* "album" means vinyl LP, and CD means CD. But yes, I did mean vinyl LP. >Myself, I still have a vinyl copy of the original "Alternate Learning" >album from the pre-Game Theory band. One of these days, I'll do my best to >rake in a pile of cash for this online. ;) Honestly, I've never really latched on to Scott Miller, so I bought the vinyl LP on a lark, hoping it was worth something. But then again, all of his work I've really heard is Lolita Nation, so maybe I ought to just play the vinyl LP I just bought and see if I like it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:14:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Any Game Theory fans? On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eb wrote: > Here we go with the "album" thing, again. I assume you mean a vinyl > LP? I'm guessing $10 or so. I'm not sure whether Alias still has the > reissue CD in print or not...that would be the key variable. No, the reissues are out of print. I don't know what either LP or CD goes for these days, but demand is definitely still higher than supply. You might not profit enough to make the whole thing worth it, though; better to just find a good home for it if you don't like it. > Myself, I still have a vinyl copy of the original "Alternate Learning" > album from the pre-Game Theory band. One of these days, I'll do my > best to rake in a pile of cash for this online. ;) I don't think you'll get *too* much for it; I got mine for $20 last year, and the guy selling it had the ALRN EP and the Dead Center LP going for serious collector prices, while he alluded to there being more of the LP I was buying where it had come from. (If you just want to hear the out-of-print Scott stuff, mp3s are pretty easily available when one asks in the right place. I don't think there's anything essential on Dead Center that hasn't been reissued, and the ALRN EP... well, "Green Card" is sort of cool, but not $75 of cool.) > Eb, who still thinks The Big Shot Chronicles is the most essential > Scott Miller release, and isn't jumping on the "Lolita Nation is the > longest and most pretentious, so it must be the best" bandwagon I think it depends how much you hold bad songs against a record. Take out side 3 entirely and Lolita Nation is very strong (certainly better than The Big Shot Chronicles, whose weak second half hobbles it). Even then, though, it's still not as good as Real Nighttime or Interbabe Concern. a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:03:12 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Any Game Theory fans? On Sunday, July 8, 2001, at 08:49 AM, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > Honestly, I've never really latched on to Scott Miller, so I bought the > vinyl LP on a lark, hoping it was worth something. > > But then again, all of his work I've really heard is Lolita Nation, so > maybe I ought to just play the vinyl LP I just bought and see if I like > it. I'd strongly recommend picking up Plants & Birds & Rocks & Things by The Loud Family. - - Steve __________ The election of 2000 was not stolen. It was expropriated. - Hendrick Hertzberg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: ablumz On Mon, 11 Aug 2008, Bret wrote: > Hmm I always wondered why "record" is so closely tied to vinyl, ("LP" > I understand) and not tied to "recording" > > I thought it was always a record regardless to the format (media). Well, you and me, Bret, we got it right and everyone else is wrong. A record is just a recording. An album is a particular collection of songs in a particular order. Sometimes you have to know the person and interpret the context, but that doesn't mean there isn't a right and wrong. When someone like Godwin says "I always liked that record", I interpret him to mean he liked that particular track, not necessarily the whole album whence it came. (After all, Godwin comes from the day when unincorporated singles were quite common... sadly unlike today.) So he's completely correct in saying "record" when he could very well be listening to an MP3. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: Re: ablumz > > "album" comes originally from the cardboard jacket used to house the > > vinyl. that's why the term is more commonly associated with records. > > No it doesnt. It comes from shellac 78s. You could buy a set of usually > five but sometimes more 10 inch 78 RPM shellac records with one song on > each side that would come in a binder type book that resembles a photo > album. So it was an album of records. well, that was a little bit before my time, but the concept still holds - i was explaining why "Album" is more commonly associated with vinyl (and, i suppose, shellac)-- CD's aren't stored in albums like the previous formats. it's still technically correct to call a cd an album, but the definition is farther down on the list. look it up if you don't believe me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:47:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Swedene Subject: MP3 Question Hi All! Hope you are having (or had) a great FEG weekend. My Mac is down for a bit, and I am stuck on a PC :( I was wondering what the best program for the PC is to convert WAV files into mp3's since I have some shows I want to upload. Thanks! Herbie np - Soft Boys "Baltimore gig" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:17:03 -0700 From: Eb Subject: (Part of) An Evening With Wild Man Fischer Arrrgh, what a frustrating waste of a night. If $5 for Brian Wilson at the Hollywood Bowl was the *best* deal I ever got on a concert, last night's debacle has to rank among the very worst. I was eagerly anticipating seeing both Daniel Johnston and Wild Man Fischer for the first time...particularly Fischer, which seemed to be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. The show was at the Key Club, a distastefully glitzy joint (garish "Jumbotron" above the main entrance, etc.) on the Sunset Strip which I've only visited once before, for an Imperial Drag show four or five years ago. Back then, it was called Billboard Live instead. Before that, a totally different club stood on the same spot: the infamous Gazarri's. The thing I remember most about Gazarri's was the club's hilarious motto in their radio ads: "All my bands have foxy guys. If the band don't have foxy guys, THEY DON'T GET ON MY STAGE!!" An inspiring manifesto from Gazarri himself, a 60ish gentleman who dressed like a mafia boss. If you didn't figure it out already, the club was almost exclusively devoted to the old hair-metal scene which used to dominate the Sunset Strip. Gazarri is dead now, and his club essentially died with him. The Roxy, Whisky A Go-Go and Viper Room are all a short walk away, by the way. Since I'm not as experienced with the Key Club's procedures, I called beforehand to find out the set times. I caught a live person instead of a recording, and he told me the club opened its doors at 7 pm. Then he received another call and said "Hold on a minute," but I figured he had given me the most vital info so I hung up. A little bit later, I kinda wished I had waited until he told me the specific set times. A few hours later, I *really* wished I had waited until he told me the specific set times. OK, so if the doors opened at 7, it would be awhile afterwards before the music actually started. I arrived at the club about, oh, 7:30 or 7:35. I bought a $15 ticket, gritting my teeth at paying that much to see two hapless "sick turn-ons" with minimal legitimate talent. The area outside the club was deserted -- it felt as if scarcely anyone else was there. I had wondered if the rarity of a Fischer performance might bring out a huge line of Frank Zappa fanatics...I guess not. I asked the door guy (from now on, known as Goddamn Bastard) what the set times were. He said Johnston would go on about 9:30 pm, and Fischer would go on about 8:30 pm. Hmmm, a long wait for me, and here I am without either a concertmate or a magazine to read. So, I thought I'd briefly walk down the street and visit the aforementioned Lawndart at the Viper Room. We hung out in the office there for a bit, chatting and watching a Rage Against the Machine concert on MTV2. When the clock neared 8:15 pm, I took off and went back to the club. I walked in the door between 8:20 and 8:25 pm. When I entered, Melrose Larry Green was spieling onstage. Speaking of hapless misfits.... If you've ever heard Green on the Howard Stern show, you'll know what I mean. Green (obviously a personal friend) was talking about Fischer, and I assumed he was giving him an introduction. Aha, perfect timing. But hmmm...the introduction seemed to say something about bringing Fischer BACK, as if he had already been onstage. Hmmmm.... After four or five minutes of coaxing 'n' cajoling, Fischer finally came onstage. He was wearing a Pendleton shirt and a baseball cap which said "New Year's 2000" (appropriately out of sync with the times). A roadie sidled onstage, and placed an acoustic guitar at Fischer's feet. It was never touched. For the next five or 10 minutes, Fischer shuffled around onstage and babbled. The exasperated roadie screamed at him in frustration a few times, telling him to JUST SING, DAMMIT. Fischer managed to sing about two lines of three different songs (one was "I Left My Heart in San Francisco," another was something about a "Big Popper," and the other was a new "song" called "Coroner of Faith"). He didn't finish any of these tunes. He was more interested in dialogue with the fans (really, only about 40 people) about whether he should record a comeback album with a collaborator. Eric Clapton? He said he heard Clapton had been searching around for a copy of the "An Evening With Wild Man Fischer" album. He also mentioned Johnston, Madonna, Dweezil Zappa...um, whatever. He just good-naturedly scoffed at all suggestions, futilely shaking his head amidst the lingering shards of his self-esteem. Then, he left the stage again. Green returned, and tried to coax him back. Nope, it wasn't going to happen. Green offered the old joke about how "Larry has left the building," and that was that. I was horrified, naturally. $15 for six lines of music? It *was* a bit exciting, even hearing those few lines. Fischer still has the same exaggerated, guttural yelp -- his voice really didn't sound much different, even though he's now entirely gray-haired (but with the same general hairstyle and scruffy beard). But...I heard SIX LINES. Afterwards, I approached a couple of other fans upfront, and asked them if Fischer had been onstage prior to the minutes I witnessed. I explained the point at which I arrived, wondering internally if Fischer could be such an unpredictable performer that I actually *did* see the whole set. But, no. "Oh yeah, he sang for awhile before that...he did a bunch of songs. 'Go to Rhino Records"...[a few more song titles which I don't recall]." ARRRRRRRRRRGH. How much am I hating that misleading Goddamn Bastard now? An once-in-a-lifetime opportunity missed. Which was overpriced to start with. I wandered around the club, feeling utterly dejected and violated. I was leaning over a railing, looking down at a stairway to the bottom floor when some pudgy, bearded guy asked me if Wild Man Fischer had performed yet. I guess this guy arrived too late, as well. I told him yes, Wild Man already appeared, and he gave a similar exasperated curse and continued down to the first level. I only include this trivial exchange for one reason: Seconds after he walked away, I realized the man was none other than Matt Groening (who's a well-documented Zappa fan). Ha...figures. Well, I'm 90-95% sure it was him, anyway. There was a table in front with several different Daniel Johnston tapes for sale (plus a few drawings), but $8 seemed rather pricey for self-dubbed tapes in cheapie plastic packages with almost no artwork. If the price had been $5, I might've bought one. Or even two. But otherwise, I'm just not enough of a fan to bother. Especially when I was already grumbling over the wasted admission. After a half-hour wait, Daniel Johnston came onstage a minute or two after 9 pm. He didn't make me regret this night any less. He had a music stand for reference, and an undersized acoustic guitar. No band. He looks something like the fatter, gray-haired, black-sheep brother of Monty Python's Terry Jones. Well, there's nothing to say about Johnston's performance beyond that he SUCKED. I only have two of his albums, but it seems like his vocal performances on album have a certain "strident" quality which he never even *approached* on this night. It was just this meek little introvert mumbling his vocals, while clumsily strumming elementary chords on his guitar. No entertainment value to it, whatsoever. What's more, *his* set was very short, too -- he was finished by 9:30 pm. So, great. I've paid $15, and seen about 30 minutes of awful music for the price. Yay. But, there was one significant silver lining: uh, starfucking. After Johnston had sung a few songs, Fischer emerged from backstage and went out into the crowd to say hi to a friend or two. He was standing at the back of the dance floor, watching Johnston and talking to Green and another man I can't identify (possibly a Rhino Records employee). I was kinda wishing I had one of my Fischer LPs to get signed -- I hadn't bothered to bring one, because it's such a hassle carrying a 12" LP around a club for a whole night. CDs are much easier. But if I had known I'd only be in the club for an HOUR or so.... Anyway, I went over and asked Larry if he would be performing again, or if this was a one-time opportunity. He said it was a one-time thing, much to my dismay. I told him what happened, and he was genuinely (crazily?) concerned and disappointed. Boy, is this guy looking for reassurance! I told him I had only seen the "encore," but he still wanted to know how I liked it. He wants a review of a six-line performance?? Um, I liked it, Larry. Yes, you were good. Yes. Yes. For the *first* time, he asked something like "It's a hard business though, isn't it? Isn't it?" Yes Larry, it's a hard business. Just say yes to whatever he says. ;) On and on. We parted ways a little bit after that, but then he shortly came *back* to me, again apologizing and feeling bad that I missed his set. We had essentially the same conversation for the second time. Then two or other three younger folk came up, and explained that they were college-radio DJs who regularly played Fischer's music, and that they had driven *10 hours* from Utah just for this show. My gawd!! They were awestruck to be in his presence. Fischer asked them basically the same questions. Did you like the show? Was I good? Did you like my guitar playing? Do you have "The Fisher King" [the recent, limited-edition Rhino Handmade box set]? Did you hear the song with Rosemary Clooney? Have you seen my websites? It's a hard business, isn't it? Can you blame me for leaving show business, when it's full of sharks who rip you off? Wouldn't you do the same? Do you think I'm better than him [pointing onstage at Johnston]? He seemed genuinely thrilled when we said yes to the latter. He added he doesn't get along very well with Johnston, anymore. He gave the same riffs about the record business, over and over. One of these DJs ("Weebar College"??) had a Z-quality handheld tape recorder, and tried to conduct a spontaneous interview of sorts. But instead, Fischer was asking all the questions. Did you like the show? Did you like my guitar-playing? Do you think I made some people happy, tonight? I did? Wouldn't you leave show business, if everyone was just trying to rip you off? Really? Am I popular in Utah? Do people remember my songs in Utah? Should I do a show in Utah? So, you liked my guitar-playing? Just like me, the DJ smiled and gamely said yes to everything. He actually gave his *phone number* to Fischer, thinking a Utah show was actually a possibility -- ouch, I'm sure *that* was a mistake. Either he won't hear from Fischer at all, or he'll hear from him every night for weeks. ;) The conversation went around and around like that, for a good 20-25 minutes. This was easily worth more than the night's onstage entertainment. Fischer kept saying how he hated the record business, and left the public eye rather than be ripped off. Can you blame me? Wouldn't you do the same? Wouldn't you leave show business, if it was full of sharks trying to steal from you? I (still trying to barter for another appearance) suggested that he try small, casual gigs at coffeehouses like Highland Grounds, thus avoiding big-business transactions. Keep things simple. Surprisingly, he said that Highland Grounds had actually made him such an offer, but nothing came of it. Drat! I told him he needed to do another show, just so *I* could see it -- we'll see if that resonates with him later. ;) The female DJ wanted a picture with him, but Fischer got all neurotic about his appearance: "Oh, I don't know. I look awful. I don't look as good as I used to." But, they talked him into it, and he smiled and posed. Despite his obvious instability, it was kinda sweet how badly he wanted just to please people. He wasn't "scary" at all, though he's obviously an emotional wreck. And he sure was happy to hear about all the fans he has in Utah. Oh yeah, there are lots of Mormons in Utah, aren't there? Do the Mormons like my music? Do they know my songs? Do I get played on the radio there? Should I play a show in Utah? It turns out the DJs actually *were* Mormons. Ha. So, I guess even Mormons like Wild Man Fischer. (One of them told me he bought An Evening With Wild Man Fischer off Ebay for $30....) There were some other little tidbits, but I can't remember everything. He said Zappa was talented, but a bit of an "egomaniac." He seemed to shrug this off with a smile though, as if this is an inevitable trait of artistic types. He also said Zappa had told him something like "You're a star, Larry. I could search the entire world, and never find another one like you. You're one of a kind." Larry seemed proud about this. After the show, I walked down to Tower Records to browse for a bit. Just to give the evening a bit more feeling of "value." I had another weird star sighting, in Tower: none other than tanmaster George Hamilton. Ha. I tried to see what he was buying, but couldn't tell. Some arcane, Native American-looking import, seemingly. Is there an artist named "Ravin"? He was parading around the store for quite awhile -- probably hoping he'd find a fan to feed his ego. ;) Insecurity everywhere, tonight. I felt a bit sheepish myself because I went into Tower, forgetting that I was wearing a T-shirt from new rival Amoeba Records. So, a few employee dudes catcalled at me for being a "spy." Phooey. After a bit, Groening came into Tower too. Nearby, I saw him examining Fugs and Miles Davis CDs. I almost bought that new Pixies B-side import, because they had it for just $14.99. But...I just wasn't in the mood to toss around any more money, that night. I keep hoping to find the Claudine Longet compilation stocked here (the best-stocked record store in the area), but it hasn't happened -- I have yet to see the disc on any record-store shelf, even once. After that, I walked down to the Troubadour, still searching for more entertainment "substance." Rilo Kiley, Smile and John Vanderslice were playing...I'm not quite a fan of these groups, but a publicist I know is in town from Seattle and I knew she'd be there. The doorman nicely let me in because the show was almost over anyway, so I went inside, found the publicist and saw yet *another* isolated encore: Rilo Kiley's. Nice tone from that trumpet player, if nothing else. I talked in the bar with folks for awhile after that, and met Vanderslice, most of Rilo Kiley and a nice guy named Matthew who's apparently a member of the band Nada Surf. Vanderslice gave me one of his CDs -- I wish I liked his songwriting as well as I like his production/arranging (a bit of a quirky TMBG feel). The gang invited me to meet them across town at Cantor's Deli for late-night munchies, but I was worn out by then. Homeward bound. Congratulations if you read this far. Eb (has so much ever been written about so little? ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:21:59 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: Any Game Theory fans? - -----Original Message----- From: steve Sent: Sun 7/8/2001 12:03 PM To: Fegmaniax Cc: Subject: Re: Any Game Theory fans? On Sunday, July 8, 2001, at 08:49 AM, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > Honestly, I've never really latched on to Scott Miller, so I bought the > vinyl LP on a lark, hoping it was worth something. > > But then again, all of his work I've really heard is Lolita Nation, so > maybe I ought to just play the vinyl LP I just bought and see if I like > it. | | I'd strongly recommend picking up Plants & Birds & Rocks & Things by The | Loud Family. I agree with Steve this would be my first pick as well. A great album. - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:19:06 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: ablumz >everyone else is wrong. Hark, I hear Jeme's theme song. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:54:21 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Reap whooossshhhh! Delia Derbyshire Who? Who! See: James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #267 ********************************