From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #228 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, June 5 2001 Volume 10 : Number 228 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Go 76ers [Tom Clark ] Re: more pointless opinions from yours truly [Ken Ostrander ] the hell of clowms... [Stephen Mahoney ] is there no more NEW ["Walker, Charles" ] Re: We just *teach* the first amendment... ["Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Re: beer quote ["brian nupp" ] RE: Go 76ers ["Yudt.Matthew" ] Re: we just *teach* the first amendment, take 2 [Capuchin ] fegefffffluvia [Mark Gloster ] fegefffffluvia [Mark Gloster ] Re: we just *teach* the first amendment, take 2 [Tom Clark ] Go go 76ers ["Dimple Burrows of Tuckborough" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:25:18 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Go 76ers on 6/5/01 6:57 AM, Dimple Burrows of Tuckborough at theyarenotlong@hotmail.com wrote: > Attention The Collector-- Tom Clark(or more signs of the fall of western > civ.) > Do you mean ME, or that wanker who makes those gnome statuettes? > 2-Hogan's Hero > Bob Crane's son is realeasing porn taken by his "auteur" dad. > I guess you dont get to collect much in insurance if youre dad's been beaten > to death with a tripod--so you gotta do -something-. Gotta love that filial > piety. > Yes, this is classic stuff: http://www.bobcrane.com/ > Not so cheap-- > Im getting a new computer at home! We've had out Pentium 1 for about 5 years > and even with an extra drive it is a mess. The first time my husband tried > to order the new one online he also had Real Jukebox up and it crashed the > system. Pitiful, just pitiful. > We're getting a DVD player, lots of memory for my daughter's Sims games, > room for doing stuff with a digital camera--Windows 2000. > Any advice from youse all techies? Buy a Macintosh instead. - -tc, now 35% faster! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:40:17 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: more pointless opinions from yours truly >he looked -exactly- like this obnoxious slob that an ex of mine used >to pal around with. I was unable to comprehend the idea that this woman would >be compelled by lust for such a person. would you admit that the count was more charming than the slob? >What was with the vogue for casting Reeves in period flix, anyway? >Was everyone on the crack pipe? like it or not, that damned keanu makes money for the studios. it amazes me that all of these people cannot see that he cannot act to save his life. whether he's killing malcovich or oldman, or plotting to break up marriages, he's just so wooden. and, as far as action pictures go, he's bolegged. have you ever watched him run? he has been in many decent flicks and done some passable work; but perhaps you need the special effects and flashy period costumes to distract you. was his best work in bill & ted or the matrix? parenthood or river's edge? i suppose that he's got more depth than steven segal; but what about arnold? >>they consider "bankable" cast members. The old "NO STARS!" turning into >>Bruce Willis and Julia Roberts (to keep up the Richard E. Grant references). "we're living in a shop. the world's a magnificent fucking shop; and if it hasn't got a price tag, it isn't worth having. there is no greater freedom than freedom of choice - and that's the difference between you and me boil. i was brought up to believe in that, and so should you - but you don't want freedom do you? you don't even want roads. god, i don't want to go on another train as long as i live! roads represent a fundamental right of man to have access to the good things in life. without roads, established family favorites would become elitist delicacies. potted soup would be for the few. there'd be no more tea bags, no instant potatoes, no long life cream. there'd be no aerosols. detergents would vanish. so would tin spagetti, and baked beans with six frankfurters. the right to smoke one's chosen brand would be denied. chewing gum would probably disappear. so would pork pies. foot deodorizers would climax without hope of replacement. when the hydrolized protein and monosodium glotomate reserves ran out, food would rot in its packets. jesus christ, there wouldn't be any more packets! packaging would vanish from the face of the earth. and worst of all, there'd be no more cars. more than anything people love their cars. they have a right to them. they have to sweat all day in some stinking factory making disposable cigarette lighters or everlasting christmas trees - christ, they're entitled to them! they're entitled to any innovation technology brings. whether it's ten percent more of it or fifty percent less of it. they're entitled to our four important new ingredients. why should anyone have to clean their teeth without important new ingredients? why the hell shouldn't they have their CZT? how dare some slutty marketers deny them of it? they want their CZT. they need - they positively adore - by christ, while i've got air in my body, they're going to get it! they're going to get it bigger and brighter and better. i'll put CZT in their margarine if neccessary. shove vitamins in their toilet rolls. if happiness means a whole world standing on a double layer of foot deodorizers, i bagley will see that they get them! i'll give them anything and everything they want. by god i will. i shall not cease 'til jerusalem is builded here on england's green and pleasant land!" ken "there is no spoon" the kenster np metal box public image ltd. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:23:59 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: beer quote on 6/4/01 6:31 PM, brian nupp at bnupp@hotmail.com wrote: > Mmm...beer-pouring noises... > > What was rUss's imfamous quote? "Never waste a trip anywhere by coming home without beer." Cheers! - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: the hell of clowms... > >Was everyone on the crack pipe? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................crack! - -mahoney( a feeble attempt at being homer) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:33:10 -0700 From: "Walker, Charles" Subject: is there no more NEW Ive long envied people who were able to experience the New when it happened. I would have loved to have been in the gallery when Jackson Pollocks first splatter painting was exhibited, or one of the first to see Braques analytic cubism. I think these are innovations a lot of people take for granted, due to overexposure or whatever. I also think the chances of a similar innovation in expression occurring during my lifetime is pretty slim. If anybody thinks otherwise, Id love to hear it. Honestly, Id appreciate others opinion on this. This here email-y internet-y thing is pretty darn revolutionary in my opinion. do that dount? chas http://theweeklywalker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:34:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: We just *teach* the first amendment... > From: Tom Clark > Subject: We just *teach* the first amendment... When I was a kid, I would *fill* my notebooks to the edges with drawings of WWII fighter planes, engaged in combat, going down in flames, landing, or just in profile. All with blazing machine guns, cannons, air-to-air rockets, and bombs. I was interested in history, aviation, mechanics, engineering, and just trying to learn how to draft and draw. Damn that interest, they should have just kicked me out of school and thrown me in jail. This sickens me. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:37:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eugene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Meet me in Lidsville > From: Stephen Mahoney > Subject: Re: hello? > > am I the only one who thougght lidsville by sid and marty krofft was a > master stroke of genius or what???? Heck no. I too am one of Horatio J. Hoodoo's minions. That show freaks me out now just as much as it did when I was a kid -- sure am glad I bought all of those Krofft videotapes from Columbia a few years back. Actually, I do think "ElectraWoman and DynaGirl" was better, tho. And there's no denying the genius of "Far Out Space Nuts." Really, I'm serious. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:40:19 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: we just *teach* the first amendment, take 2 http://www.ctnow.com/scripts/editorial.dll?render=y&eetype=Article&eeid=4666 541 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:42:47 -0400 From: "brian nupp" Subject: Re: beer quote Thanx Glen! > > What was rUss's imfamous quote? > >"Never waste a trip anywhere by coming home without beer." > >Cheers! >-g- > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:07:17 -0400 From: "Yudt.Matthew" Subject: RE: Go 76ers > Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:57:36 -0000 > From: "Dimple Burrows of Tuckborough" > Subject: Go 76ers > > Yo 76ers. > You all saw the -first- Rocky movie, right? The one where the Philly > yob > goes far farther than he should on pure gumption? Dosn't matter if > he wins > the Championship(that sorta slickness comes later in the > interminable > series)--point is--he got there at all. > Workingman determination, heart and ability to play thru pain. Sound > > familiar? > Go 76ers:-). > Oh yeah! Just wanted to second this! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: we just *teach* the first amendment, take 2 On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Glen Uber wrote: What kills me most about this article is that it never once questions whether or not McDonald's should be hosting ANYTHING in a public school. No, that part seems perfectly acceptable. Sheesh. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:34:13 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: delete now >From: "victorian squid" > >It's all very well to say art's for art sake and damn the torpedoes when >we're sitting >here shooting the breeze. We're not the people that put up the money to >make it. Yeah, but we're the people that put up the money to see it (and buy the DVDs and the merchandise and whatnot). >When you're talking about something like "Interview With The Vampire", >that requires >a bit of budget for costume and effects, it's an investment. And you'd think you could save a buck or two casting some (un)dead sexy unknown instead of spending millions more on Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt. The theory is of course that the stars guarantee an audience, but do they? In the case of a film like this one, I wonder. Anyway, I know the reasons why we have to see the same damned actors over and over and over again. They are obvious. I reserve the right to rant against them. Regarding "Bram Stoker's Dracula": I didn't really mind Keanu very much, actually. He's unbearable most of the time, but somehow he worked in this film and in THE MATRIX. On the other hand, I'm gathering the courage to come out of the closet about hating Gary Oldman. > What was with the vogue for casting Reeves in period flix, anyway? Was everyone on the > crack pipe? You answered your own question above. No one is going to go see some expensive period flick unless some hottie with a thoroughly contemporary accent is in it to draw the crowds. >From: Miles Goosens > >Depressing that we all don't agree? I'm concerned with the repetition of >this theme within a single e-mail (including the subject line itself!) that >you're taking the typical banter about likes and dislikes much too >personally, That's probably true. I tend to do that. I just don't feel very articulate in explaining why I like things, and I'd like to be. It's depressing that everyone but me likes works whose quality is easily defensible but which don't appeal to me for ineffable reasons. You know that little pleased feeling you get when you find out someone shares your excitement about an underappreciated work? I'm getting the opposite of that daily now. The fact that it bothers me and that I should expect anything different is entirely my own neurosis and I mainly just didn't want to inflict it on this group anymore. So, after this apology, which I hope made some sense, I'm going to try to avoid doing that. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:54:45 -0700 From: Mark Gloster Subject: fegefffffluvia Vivian/Jeme: Thank you! I just got the package after starting this note. Bear, hat, Sharkboy are all happy to be reunited. I plan to visit briefly in the next month- really. I will feel terribly rejected if Scarfy pulls another stunt like that to be with Jeme again. The stickers were great. Boox: I always feel a little inadequate on this list when people are discussing literary works. I am one of those people who will throw down a book that doesn't do something soon enough. I usually think that I don't read at all, but that isn't true. I just don't read a lot of things that would impress y'all. Though I've always been considered smart, and even considered myself smart, I feel like the village idiot on this list. This is not to specifically insult myself, I am terribly impressed with y'all and youse all. The last good book I read was _Ender's Game_, like, last month. The last GREAT book I read was _Confederacy of Dunces_ (that was a long while ago.) I enjoyed several of Mark Twain's novels. I liked the _Brothers Karamazov_. I'm fairly sure that the best book I ever read was _The Magic Mountain_. Vonnegut is probably my favorite American author, and unlike the "washed masses," I think _Breakfast of Champions_ is his best work. I read all of Dave Barry's boox. Like RH, his humor was what brought me to his writings and, also like RH, his perspective and his more serious material are what hold me. Unlike Robyn, it is hard to find his more serious stuff. In his book about Japan, there is a chapter wherein he compares the cultures of the US and Japan. He once wrote a Sunday column about seeing his dad for the last time. These things really affected me, and made me appreciate him even more. I love Molly Ivins political work. I've had to put down her book about jr. Shrub. Unlike most books I put down, I am sure I'll pick it up again. I know she has been struggling with cancer and I hope she'll be okay and write for a looooong time. Movies: I almost never go to movies. I haven't rented one since moving to Oregon. I'm kinda out of touch. Maybe Tom will send me some of his private collection (please, no sticky ones.) Coppola's Dracula. Terrible movie. I guess I really loved the cinematography. I liked the way Dracula moved. I loved Winona in her wispy gown. I liked absolutely nothing else about it. I think the popcorn was really good. Right now I'm working on some serious literary shtuff about how to race better on skis and how to get a job. No, not in one book, but that would really save time. 1st amendment: Times are different now, but who doesn't remember doodling spaceships attacking a planet that looked like teacher's head? In Reno, where I allegedly grew up, there was a substitute teacher named "Mrs. Speed." Someone wrote on the chalkboard "SPEED KILLS," while she was out of the room. My brother edited it with "KILL SPEED." Today, he would probably spend serious time in juvy for something he did just to get laughs. I do sincerely believe that times have changed, but the pisser is that in attempting to be "proactive" and "serious," American society is getting completely out of touch with ethical behavior (yes, I know that the first step was taking the "u" out of such words.) I know that it is not respectable for me to interpret religions that I don't grok, but isn't some form of "the golden rule" central to each? It is central to secular humanism, and you don't see secular humanist mass murderers. If people act with responsibility and regard live with respect, then having a sense of humor will seem less dangerous for those of us who think we have one. TeeVee: I'm loving the Giro D'Italia coverage on OLN. It is the best televised bicycle race ever in the US. I am looking forward to Le Tour De France. Unlike in Europe, we have never seen good coverage of a Bicycle race- EVER. I think the Daily Show on Comedy Central is about the best thing on TV. I am still enjoying Dark Shadows, though it isn't quite as good with the better acting in the beginning of the series (they just started from the top again on Sci Fi channel.) Basketball: I still kinda like the Lakers. I kinda dislike Iverson. Guess I'm rooting for 4-0 Lakers. Baseball: I hope the Giants start wompin' soon. Hope Barry gets 73 homers this year, but I really want them to kick the stuffin's out of the Yankees or the Mariners in the World Series. No, I don't watch the games. Tennis: I was really hoping Sampras would finally win the French. Poor bastard. Life on the coast... It hasn't rained here much lately. I have finally figured out how to make it do that. I just either start watering the yard or get on my bicycle. The lawn is doing magnificently. It is four weeks old, and about the healthiest one on the street. It is just a small patch, but the work I put in has paid off well. Hank Hill would be proud. (I can almost hear Tom Clark's Hank Hill impression saying: "If ya weren't my son I'd hug ya.") I haven't been working very hard to get a job. I'm getting a little bit of music stuff done, and I'm starting to get into shape. I plan to take a ski race clinic in the next month. Next year I think I will make it to the National competition (yea, just so I can get blown away by the clown in my age bracket who beat Picabo Street this year on the day I raced with them. One more thing: I need to print a slight retraction. Eb and I were apparently not at the same show of King Crimson. I saw them down there on the _Beat_ tour. I saw them in Santa Cruz on the _Three of a Perfect Pair_ tour. Actually, the one I saw in LA was great. They screwed up several songs in Santa Cruz and I kinda thought at the time that they would be breaking up. They did after playing a good gig in LA. My brother was there, if that's any consolation. At the time, he made about two of me, and much easier to see over- so that makes him better, right? Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:54:01 -0700 From: Mark Gloster Subject: fegefffffluvia Vivian/Jeme: Thank you! I just got the package after starting this note. Bear, hat, Sharkboy are all happy to be reunited. I plan to visit briefly in the next month- really. I will feel terribly rejected if Scarfy pulls another stunt like that to be with Jeme again. The stickers were great. Boox: I always feel a little inadequate on this list when people are discussing literary works. I am one of those people who will throw down a book that doesn't do something soon enough. I usually think that I don't read at all, but that isn't true. I just don't read a lot of things that would impress y'all. Though I've always been considered smart, and even considered myself smart, I feel like the village idiot on this list. This is not to specifically insult myself, I am terribly impressed with y'all and youse all. The last good book I read was _Ender's Game_, like, last month. The last GREAT book I read was _Confederacy of Dunces_ (that was a long while ago.) I enjoyed several of Mark Twain's novels. I liked the _Brothers Karamazov_. I'm fairly sure that the best book I ever read was _The Magic Mountain_. Vonnegut is probably my favorite American author, and unlike the "washed masses," I think _Breakfast of Champions_ is his best work. I read all of Dave Barry's boox. Like RH, his humor was what brought me to his writings and, also like RH, his perspective and his more serious material are what hold me. Unlike Robyn, it is hard to find his more serious stuff. In his book about Japan, there is a chapter wherein he compares the cultures of the US and Japan. He once wrote a Sunday column about seeing his dad for the last time. These things really affected me, and made me appreciate him even more. I love Molly Ivins political work. I've had to put down her book about jr. Shrub. Unlike most books I put down, I am sure I'll pick it up again. I know she has been struggling with cancer and I hope she'll be okay and write for a looooong time. Movies: I almost never go to movies. I haven't rented one since moving to Oregon. I'm kinda out of touch. Maybe Tom will send me some of his private collection (please, no sticky ones.) Coppola's Dracula. Terrible movie. I guess I really loved the cinematography. I liked the way Dracula moved. I loved Winona in her wispy gown. I liked absolutely nothing else about it. I think the popcorn was really good. Right now I'm working on some serious literary shtuff about how to race better on skis and how to get a job. No, not in one book, but that would really save time. 1st amendment: Times are different now, but who doesn't remember doodling spaceships attacking a planet that looked like teacher's head? In Reno, where I allegedly grew up, there was a substitute teacher named "Mrs. Speed." Someone wrote on the chalkboard "SPEED KILLS," while she was out of the room. My brother edited it with "KILL SPEED." Today, he would probably spend serious time in juvy for something he did just to get laughs. I do sincerely believe that times have changed, but the pisser is that in attempting to be "proactive" and "serious," American society is getting completely out of touch with ethical behavior (yes, I know that the first step was taking the "u" out of such words.) I know that it is not respectable for me to interpret religions that I don't grok, but isn't some form of "the golden rule" central to each? It is central to secular humanism, and you don't see secular humanist mass murderers. If people act with responsibility and regard live with respect, then having a sense of humor will seem less dangerous for those of us who think we have one. TeeVee: I'm loving the Giro D'Italia coverage on OLN. It is the best televised bicycle race ever in the US. I am looking forward to Le Tour De France. Unlike in Europe, we have never seen good coverage of a Bicycle race- EVER. I think the Daily Show on Comedy Central is about the best thing on TV. I am still enjoying Dark Shadows, though it isn't quite as good with the better acting in the beginning of the series (they just started from the top again on Sci Fi channel.) Basketball: I still kinda like the Lakers. I kinda dislike Iverson. Guess I'm rooting for 4-0 Lakers. Baseball: I hope the Giants start wompin' soon. Hope Barry gets 73 homers this year, but I really want them to kick the stuffin's out of the Yankees or the Mariners in the World Series. No, I don't watch the games. Tennis: I was really hoping Sampras would finally win the French. Poor bastard. Life on the coast... It hasn't rained here much lately. I have finally figured out how to make it do that. I just either start watering the yard or get on my bicycle. The lawn is doing magnificently. It is four weeks old, and about the healthiest one on the street. It is just a small patch, but the work I put in has paid off well. Hank Hill would be proud. (I can almost hear Tom Clark's Hank Hill impression saying: "If ya weren't my son I'd hug ya.") I haven't been working very hard to get a job. I'm getting a little bit of music stuff done, and I'm starting to get into shape. I plan to take a ski race clinic in the next month. Next year I think I will make it to the National competition (yea, just so I can get blown away by the clown in my age bracket who beat Picabo Street this year on the day I raced with them. One more thing: I need to print a slight retraction. Eb and I were apparently not at the same show of King Crimson. I saw them down there on the _Beat_ tour. I saw them in Santa Cruz on the _Three of a Perfect Pair_ tour. Actually, the one I saw in LA was great. They screwed up several songs in Santa Cruz and I kinda thought at the time that they would be breaking up. They did after playing a good gig in LA. My brother was there, if that's any consolation. At the time, he made about two of me, and much easier to see over- so that makes him better, right? Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:06:18 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: we just *teach* the first amendment, take 2 on 6/5/01 12:52 PM, Capuchin at capuchin@bitmine.net wrote: > http://www.ctnow.com/scripts/editorial.dll?render=y&eetype=Article&eeid=4666 54> 1 >> > > What kills me most about this article is that it never once questions > whether or not McDonald's should be hosting ANYTHING in a public school. Job fairs for teens are one thing. But a *mandatory* assembly?? Christ... I wrote a letter to the Courant in response. I almost never do such things but I find I'm becoming a lot more indignant about this kind of shit. I think a lot of it has to do with this list. Kudos for opening my eyes!! Eat Mr. Tate! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:22:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: I'll get you, my pretty! On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Natalie Jane wrote: > Re. the mysterious Charles I Black Adder: > > >Was this part of BLACK ADDER V? I haven't seen it, but it gets >released > >on DVD on the 26th, same day as the box set. > > I haven't the foggiest - I saw it a long time ago (1992 or thereabouts), so > I doubt it was a new addition to the series. I think it was a one-off, like > the Christmas episode. I think this was part of Prince Charles' 50th birthday party celbration. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Put your faith in death because it's free" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:53:20 -0000 From: "Dimple Burrows of Tuckborough" Subject: Go go 76ers Susan: >Just my opinion, but it seems to me that in practice what almost >always >ends up really hobbling these sorts of "historical horror" >films is a bad >screenplay. Sad and true. And not just historical horror. Without an emotionally-moving story well shown--it dosnt matter how much money you throw at something--its not really going to work. Why is this seemingly obvious fact so often ignored(aka --why do writers get no respect;-)? >What was with the vogue for casting Reeves in period flix, anyway? Yes--like his immortal performanc in As You Like It, a movie good enough to survive his impersonation of a blue screen anytime the camera was near him. I think he did Hamlet on stage in Canada somewhere. Its kinda sad. Like he wants to act--he's just not ready to do anything radical--like stop botoxing his face so that he will actually have some facial expressions. Still wish he'd make another dude movie thou;-). Nuppie--you've inspired me to try soaking some strawberries in Ameretto and then eating them with Dulce La Leche ice-cream. Oh yeah. Dignan: >Catholic mass is so obviously a >magickal rite - I found myself correctly guessing what was going to >happen >at various points from what I knew of wiccan lore, even >without knowing >anything of the Catholic rite. Yes indeedy. As are all other sorts of Christian stuff. (The most obvious is the Easter Vigil when the priest plunges a large lighted candle into the cup-shaped, water-filled baptismal fount. (BTW, it was my Episcopalian minister(who describes himself as a Buddhist) who gleefully pointed this one out to me;-).) I gather from the magick newsgroup and some other sources that some hybrid Christian/Wicca groups have sprung up. So you have Christian Witches. Or Wiccan Christians. It makes sense to me, but them Im the contrarian who likes to point out to both Christians and Thelemites how much Crowley stole from St Augustine. Anyway--we are all dealing with similar subconsiousnesses and supraconsiousnesses--so various versions of their patterns still show a similar outline. And luckily religions do grow and change. Look how different the Neopagan movement is now from before when Margret Murray wrote. Or some of the more liberal forms of Episcopaliansim/Anglicanism from the days when Henry the 8th just wanted his damn divorce. Please dont give up trying to talk sense about this sort of stuff. Nothing may get thru to most fundamentalists, but there are lots of other humanists and secularists who know nothing of Neopaganism -but- the stuff they know must be silly (cause its coming from the fundies)but dont know what its proper corrective is. Its important not to let the crazies hog the soapbox. From Steves Salon LOTR link: >First of all, the Tolkien"legendarium" (his word, of course) is a >work of >reconstructive myth and romance, closer in many respects to >Chritien de >Troyes or Edmund Spenser than to the modern novel. Have to ask-since I love both of the above noted authors-does anyone else? Hell--has anyone else even read them? Ive been tempted to rec Spenser's "Fairy Queen" for Fegbooks, its hallucinatory and fantastical, a series of rip-roaring stories which weave in and out of each other's plots like smoke rings. But most pomos just arent about to read a thousand pages of rhyming poetry in Elizabethian pseudo-Chaucerian English. More from the Salon article: >But then, I share Shippey and Tolkien's belief >that people respond to the rightness (of wrongness) of words and >names >without knowing why they do or what they're reacting to. I >belong to the >tribe of philologists by blood. See--a Robyn/Tolkein connection! But actually I think we've got alot of that tribe on this list. The essay then goes on to compare Tolkein to Joyce, something Id love to hear Quail's opinion on. Oh , and one more Robyn/Tolkein connection: >one bizarrely sexualized scene between hobbit and arachnid. JH3 So is your jist that the only way to make absnithe taste decent is to mix it with such massive qualities of some other stongly-flavored substance ... that you have to eat 3 curried chicken sandwiches for just 1 high? Mahoney: >yeah its definately david vs. goliath >lets hope there are alot of rocks sitting by iversons side >to knock down the "unstoppable giants" of l.a. >l.a. would be nowhere without phil jackson! Yes Jackson has really done incredible stuff developing the Lakers style, and it dosnt hurt that he has such incredible players. So please folks--dont laugh too hard when Iverson falls on his bruised tailbone(but man-oh-man, if we could just win one game! That would be sweet.) Godwin: * Wasn't that a scene from 'Wayne's World II'? (: Bad Godwin. Good bad Godwin. And thanks for the background on the Shippley book. Love and Dimples Kay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #228 ********************************