From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #193 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, May 11 2001 Volume 10 : Number 193 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: 80s music [Miles Goosens ] David Byrne (No RH content) [Mike Swedene ] featured links right now at excite dot com! [Bayard ] Re: sigh [Stephen Mahoney ] Re: featured links right now at excite dot com! ["Mike wells" ] Re: rate the 80s [Ken Ostrander ] binky the doormat? ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: sigh [Ken Ostrander ] Re: 80s music [Eb ] Re: 80s music [Christopher Gross ] idealization of the 80s [Jill Brand ] Re: 80s music [Tom Clark ] The Facts, Jack. [Miles Goosens ] Re: 80s music ["victorian squid" ] Re: sigh ["victorian squid" ] Boom Boom... [Tom Clark ] RE: Holy voting felons, Batman! [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] RE: Holy voting felons, Batman! ["Jason R. Thornton" ] reap [Eb ] Re: reap [Capuchin ] Re: reap [Glen Uber ] Re: hidden tracks [Jeff Dwarf ] RE: Some Christians Can Turn Buddhist, Study Suggests [Jeff Dwarf ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:47:50 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: 80s music Chris, great personal narrative! You said: >really got into. So from late 1983 to late 1990, I listened to almost >NONE of what we now call 80s bands -- no Depeche Mode, no INXS, no Prince, Prince tagged as an "'80s artist?" I guess that shouldn't surprise me, given that he had his greatest commercial *and* artistic success then, but I associate the "'80s artist" tag with bands that seem *of* that era soundwise -- the synth presets, gated drums, you know. I always thought of Prince as having much more of a timeless quality, and possessed of a distinctive sound that set him apart from his peers. >many others. It's not an indiscriminate love for the 80s though. Of all >the bands Eb listed above, The Cult and SOM are the only ones I really >care for at all. I still can't figure out *anyone's* love for the Cult. When Melissa and I moved to Nashville in '88 to go to grad school at Vandy, we also had regular access to college radio for the first time. This was A Good Thing, but we were shocked and dismayed at how often WRVU DJs played the Cult. To us, with the exception of "She Sells Sanctuary," they were and are ridiculous dunderheaded sludgemeisters who can't even write a decent riff. It's one thing to write self-consciously stupid material a la the Ramones and AC/DC, it's quite another to be genuinely stupid. (See also: David Lee Roth vs. Sammy Hagar.) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Swedene Subject: David Byrne (No RH content) I got the new David Byrne album yesterday and have listened to it a few times already. It is really good. A bit on the short side, under 39 minutes. It reminds me a bit of the Elvis Costello album he did with the Brodsky Quartet (in parts). The album has the usual infusion of latin and African rhythms. If you like his other solo stuff, this is a logical progression for him. Now I just need to pick up the Nick Cave album, and I think all will be right in the universe. Herbie np - Paul mccartney WINGSPAN "No More Lonely Nights" Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Bayard Subject: featured links right now at excite dot com! - --survivor tina collapses - --new video of britney - --chat room about britney - --10 hot photos of britney - --travel guide to brittany ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: Re: sigh On Thu, 10 May 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > Oh, and Corey Hart! Embarrassingly, the first rock show I ever saw was > Corey Hart. My mom wouldn't let me go to shows when I was a juvenile > non-delenquent, so I didn't have a shot to see any live rock music until I > was 18 and a college freshman. And there wasn't much to do concert-wise in > Athens, WV, in October '85 (still can't believe Robyn has now played > there!), so when Corey Hart was announced as the college's fall concert, I > let my friends talk me into going. my first concert: sister sledge and cher at the universal amplitheatre! ugh!!!!!I will never live that down!!!!!!! I was 13 and had no clue what good current music was- but soon rock lobster and whip it! would come out and change all of that! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:38:22 -0500 From: "Mike wells" Subject: Re: featured links right now at excite dot com! Now if it was a travel guide to Britney, that I could understand. Michael "shale we ignore this gneiss new topic, or take it for granite?" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bayard" To: Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: featured links right now at excite dot com! > --survivor tina collapses > --new video of britney > --chat room about britney > --10 hot photos of britney > --travel guide to brittany ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:44:39 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Reunion of the Snake For those who admire early Duran Duran: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ws/20010507/en/duran_duran_trio_out_reunion_in__1.html First concert: either Power Station (with Michael Des Barres rather than Robert Palmer on vocals) or Spandau Ballet. I can't remember which came first. I wonder if I wore my white jacket with the big shoulder pads. Odds are I did. Gads! - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:20:12 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: rate the 80s >_Girl You Know It's True_ smacks of the state of music >today, to my ears, which is a landscape that seems very similar >to the state of music at that time. > >The eighties just didn't seem like a very ugly decade to me. >This was probably due in large part to being young and isolated >from the evils of the time, well...i wasn't saying that the eighties were ugly; but that milli vanilli encapsulated what was ugly about the decade. the whole idea of prepackaged music with the glossy lipsynching prettyboys seems to go hand in hand with the excesses of wallstreet and the arms race. every decade (a concept that is useful as a way of breaking up time into dismissable compartments) has its ugly side. by the way, being ahead of their time isn't necessarily a good thing. >>>> but I must say that even though bob dylan sings off key and is not >>>> technically the most impressive singer, he does sing with more soul >>>> than *any* '80's performer pop or otherwise that I can think of! zimmerman's emotive performance is very immpressive. here are some others that i can think of: tom waits, prince, chaka khan, bob mould, stevie nicks, david bowie, pat benetar, bruce springsteen, annie lennox, paul westerberg, elvis costello, peter gabriel, chuck d, morrissey, peter garrett, kristin hersh, jim kerr, michael stipe, billy bragg, bjork, ian curtis, and that bono guy... >> As for *sustained* worst '80s acts, I don't have a firm choice. However, I >> can certainly rattle off some artists who really drove me nuts at the time: >> INXS, Billy Idol, the Cult, the Alarm, Falco, the Fixx, Missing Persons, >> Spandau Ballet, the Thompson Twins, Wang Chung, Robert Palmer.... I'll >> resist saying the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Sisters of Mercy, just so I >> won't ruffle any feathers. Oops, too late. ;) you could rattle off a whole bunch of other artists that actually sucked. every one of the acts listed above had something (i've often found that the big radio hits can be the nadir of a band's output) worth a listen. maybe it's because this is the music that was going on as i was discovering music and i'm nostalgic about it; but i think i can tell a good song from a bad one. i do have a broader pallet than most people. we keep talking about the lousy eighties; but don't seem to be coming up with the real stinkers: tiffany, new kids on the block, the jets, gino vanelli, cliff richard, rod stewart...i never got into the big hair metal thing either. i must say that i don't really go in for this listing off of bands we love to hate thing. i'd rather dwell on the good stuff... ken "dancin' on the jetty" the kenster np look into the eyeball david byrne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:25:55 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: binky the doormat? It's an REM week. Just finished _New Adventures In Hi-Fi_ and I like it a lot better now that I've had time away from it. It's really much more satisfying than I remember. >From: "Natalie Jacobs" > >Oh, I'm sure you do too. In fact, I know you have a copy of "The Gay >Parade" stashed away in your glove compartment... :P Ha! We had that at the station, of course. I played a couple tracks but they never grew on me. I guess I'm just not an Elephant 6 kinda guy. >So jeez, can't a gal blurt out a few mindless, ranting opinions without >having to defend them left and right? Hell no! >All I'm saying - in a less mindless sort of way - is that I'm tired of >ironic kitschsters and nostalgia-lovers elevating '80's froth to the level >of high art. I don't really think Culture Club and Duran Duran are all that >bad (I probably should have said Corey Hart instead), but I still think that >anyone who praises them to the skies must be at least partially in the grip >of nostalgia or a love of ironic kitsch. Well, I can't find anything to disagree with in this paragraph, so I'm going to go sulk now. >From: Christopher Gross >(Unlike Drew, I'd rate U2 *far* above INXS, whom I've >never liked in any of my phases.) I don't know why I don't like U2. I appreciate them enough to rate them above INXS on some mysterious, "objective" scale but my listening habits and emotions regarding both bands are pretty much on par. Maybe the problem _is_ Bono. I dunno. >From: Michael Wolfe > >There he goes again. If you can't put a number on it, he doesn't >want to know about it. Look, if I'm hearing someone sing about >poverty and alcohol and his woman leavin' him, I *don't* want him >to sound like (or even sing well as) Luciano Pavarotti. It just >doesn't work. I want him to sound like Tom Waits or Bob Dylan. >It lends an air of authenticity to the music that really needs to >be there for it to be convincing. Just as a recent example, Big >Rock Candy Mountain on the OH BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU? soundtrack >works because Harry McClintock *sounds* like a hobo. His voice >has *soul*. I think the main problem is the word "soul." The implication is that Pavarotti's voice does not have "soul," is perhaps "soulless," which comes off as kind of a harsh criticism of anyone who can carry a tune and clears their throat once in a while. You pretty much have to think of this thing "soul" as a very specific kind of passionate realism that is appropriate for certain kinds of music but not others. It's a singing style, or a set of them, and not much more. I don't really want to get into this, but I'm wondering if sounding like Donald Duck is enough to qualify Macy Gray as having "soul" or whether she would have to have some songs that don't sound like Sheryl Crow in order to qualify. - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:29:28 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: sigh >> the first rock show I ever saw was Corey Hart. > >my first concert: sister sledge and cher at the universal amplitheatre! >ugh!!!!!I will never live that down!!!!!!! both have great kitch value. my first show was tears for fears at the worcester centrum. my fundamentalist mom wouldn't let me go to concerts (or dances or movies...i had to live a double life); but i went and bought the tickets anyhow and she let me go. this was around the time that she tried (with the inducement of one of her fellow church goers) to get rid of my record collection. ken "welcome to your life" the kenster ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:37:25 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: 80s music Chris: >And then in >college, while continuing to listen to some punk and metal, I fell in with >a classic rock crowd and saturated myself in Led Zeppelin, The Who, etc., >plus some blues-rock like Clapton. In retrospect this is my most >embarrassing period. Led Zeppelin and the Who constitute your most embarrassing period? I wonder. I notice you were too embarrassed to even TELL your story about becoming a Skinny Puppy devotee. ;) >Am I the only one who now loves 80s music he once scorned? Maybe, but I used to really *despise* the Go-Go's and New Order, and now I have a mild "professional respect" for them. Just don't make me listen to "Blue Monday." EVER. Miles: >Prince tagged as an "'80s artist?" I always thought of >Prince as having much more of a timeless quality Try renting the "Purple Rain" film today, and see if it still seems "timeless" to you. ;) >I still can't figure out *anyone's* love for the Cult. Word. Ken: >>> As for *sustained* worst '80s acts, I don't have a firm choice. However, I >>> can certainly rattle off some artists who really drove me nuts at the time: >>> INXS, Billy Idol, the Cult, the Alarm, Falco, the Fixx, Missing Persons, >>> Spandau Ballet, the Thompson Twins, Wang Chung, Robert Palmer.... > >you could rattle off a whole bunch of other artists that actually sucked. >every one of the acts listed above had something worth a listen. Difference of opinion. ;) Eb, blaming this thread for a dream he had last night with a horrifying "Facts of Life" component ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:18:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: 80s music On Thu, 10 May 2001, Eb wrote: > >college, while continuing to listen to some punk and metal, I fell in with > >a classic rock crowd and saturated myself in Led Zeppelin, The Who, etc., > >plus some blues-rock like Clapton. In retrospect this is my most > >embarrassing period. > > Led Zeppelin and the Who constitute your most embarrassing period? Well, I'm not embarrassed about liking Zep or the Who or even Clapton. What IS embarrassing is that I was *so* deeply, exclusively obsessed with 60s and 70s guitar rock while blithely ignoring a lot of other genres that, had I been a little more open-minded, would have given me a lot more enjoyment. It could have been worse, of course -- a girl I liked was a big Billy Joel fan, but I retained enough independence of mind to avoid that trap. > I > wonder. I notice you were too embarrassed to even TELL your story about > becoming a Skinny Puppy devotee. ;) You don't understand -- the *only* stories I tell about myself are the embarrassing ones, and in this case it's not embarrassing at all.... Seriously, there IS no story there. I just heard Skinny Puppy mentioned a few times in favorable contexts, so I finally got off my lazy butt and listened to Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse. At first I was disappointed - -- I was expecting something faster and more techno-y -- but after a couple of listens it grew on me. And the rest, as they say -- just kidding! I won't say it. The only semblance of a story comes in the fact that I borrowed M:TPI from the Quail, who doesn't like Skinny Puppy at all. Come to think of it, Skinny Puppy is really an 80s group too. While they didn't quite start off as a synth-pop band (the way Ministry did), you can definitely hear a synth-pop influence in their early work. And I always smile when I watch the concert film Ain't It Dead Yet and see cEvin and Dwayne's Flock of Seagulls hairdos. > Maybe, but I used to really *despise* the Go-Go's and New Order, and now I > have a mild "professional respect" for them. Just don't make me listen to > "Blue Monday." EVER. How about the Orgy cover? - --Chris, who doesn't "love" the Cult, just likes some of their stuff ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:45:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: idealization of the 80s Gnat wrote (I believe): "All I'm saying - in a less mindless sort of way - is that I'm tired of ironic kitschsters and nostalgia-lovers elevating '80's froth to the level of high art. I don't really think Culture Club and Duran Duran are all that bad (I probably should have said Corey Hart instead), but I still think that anyone who praises them to the skies must be at least partially in the grip of nostalgia or a love of ironic kitsch." Isn't most of this nostalgia really the hyping of MTV kitsch? When MTV roll out their "best of", I'm embarrassed if I own anything that those groups recorded. It's self-congratulatory nostalgia. "Look, we invented this band. Aren't they unusual!? Aren't their videos interesting and quirky!? Don't they have a beat you can dance to!?" I find it interesting, however, when a non-MTV band attains this beatified status. Let's take the Smiths, for instance (it doesn't matter if you like them or not). In Boston, which had a pretty good selection (not great) of radio stations (not talking about college stations) in the 80s, the Smiths didn't get much airplay until the Queen is Dead (1986). There was some, but they weren't lauded for being God's gift to mankind. I went to four Smiths shows (a lot, considering they only toured the States twice), and not all of them were sold out. Now, however, when the Smiths are mentioned on these same stations, there is always a hushed reverence from the DJ. Where did that come from? God, I wish they'd gotten the recognition they deserved when they were actually a band, not when Morrissey was dragging the "I'm so depressed that I could behead my gladiolus" schtick to a Las Vegas level. I think that MTV is the worst thing that has ever happened to some bands. It's like heroin. People whose early work was very interesting (Billy Idol with Generation X, early Police, etc.) found themselves in the pretty boy limelight and forgot about, about, about, uh, yeah, about music. I think that is true of U2 as well. Jill, being grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:57:11 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: 80s music on 5/10/01 12:37 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > Eb, blaming this thread for a dream he had last night with a horrifying > "Facts of Life" component You have that Tootie & Jo dream too, huh? I *knew* we had something in common. Alan Thicke is underrated, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:18:36 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: The Facts, Jack. At 01:57 PM 5/10/2001 -0700, Tom Clark wrote: >on 5/10/01 12:37 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > >> Eb, blaming this thread for a dream he had last night with a horrifying >> "Facts of Life" component > >You have that Tootie & Jo dream too, huh? I *knew* we had something in >common. I think it's time to retry my "When I read about THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT, I was hoping it was Lisa Welchel in a skimpy witch costume flying around on her broom, trying to swoop down on Natalie and Jo and turn them into toads... then turn Tootie into a fly..." joke. Or maybe not. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:45:59 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: 80s music On Thu, 10 May 2001 12:43:40 Christopher Gross wrote: >I don't have an actual point -- I just felt like talking about myself -- >but it would be interesting to know if anyone else had a similar >experience. Am I the only one who now loves 80s music he once scorned? No. I now really like a lot of music I hated at the time. As a young new-waver euro-pop chick, I was most emphatically NOT into Prince and related stuffs, electro-funk, &c. and scorned/scoffed it all away as "dance music". Yes, I know, 1. and Haircut 100 isn't? 2. there's something wrong with that? I didn't say it made any sense. It was something to do with an adolescent peergroup boundary drawing sort of thing. The kids who liked that music (black music, in other words) were a different tribe. If you told me that at 30 I'd be loving Cameo and Afrika Bambaataa I'd have laughed in your face, shyah right. 2. I went through a long period of distancing myself from my early adolescence. During this time I hated everything I had liked then. ALL of it. And the more synthy it was, the more it reminded me of being 13, the more I wanted to smash it. Anyone else who went through the rediscovery process also notice that some things really actually were as bad as you thought? Bananarama really -is- annoying. And Berlin? I don't -think- so. loveonya, susan Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:00:32 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: sigh On Thu, 10 May 2001 12:34:25 Miles Goosens wrote: >froth to the level of high art. I think the '70s have lasted longer this >time than they did the first time around. Amen to that! >I'll second and third Susan and whoever else endorsed ABC; the first three >albums are the best, but any of them, including '90s comeback SKYSCRAPING, >are, at worst, tasty ear candy, and at best -- well, not up to Martin Fry's It was just me and it was because Drew said something about Duran's "greatest" being the apotheosis of trashy glam (not exact wording but 's what he meant I think). And I was thinking no way did Duran do anything that topped "Poison Arrow" for sheer camp wonderfulness. That whole "I care enough to know, I can never love you" *ba da dum dum dum dum CRASH!* moment fills me with glee. The thing is, I think part of what Drew really liked about the Durans is that they have no shame. ABC was camp on purpose so they wouldn't hit the same kind of sweet spot that say, the "Girls on Film" video does. >As I've said before, some albums are stupendously great but I've got to be >in a certain mood to hear them, while there are other things I can put on >any time and enjoy *because* they don't require the same level of >engagement. Know what you mean exactly. I've heard "Kings of The Wild Frontier" a lot more than "Plastic Ono Band" or "Blood on The Tracks", and it's not because I like it more, or think it's more worthwhile. It's immediately enjoyable and it doesn't ask near as much from me. I actually kinda feel that it's......hrm......I don't know, almost sacrilegious to put on a serious record if you're not going to give it your full attention. Gotta have something for those times when you're not in the mood for that. loveonya, susan np- Intaferon Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:04:59 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Boom Boom... http://www.pattravers.com/ - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:27:54 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: RE: Holy voting felons, Batman! >> unless the US is very different to NZ, you must be on the >> electoral roll to >> run for office > >What about Marion Barry? He got re-elected immediately (I think it was) >following getting busted for smoking crack with a prostitute. > >That slayed me, personally. "He reflects everything D.C. wants to >project...let's put him in office." Ugh. heh! He was... what? Mayor of Washington? The case sounds vaguely familiar. AFAIK the only ex-con to have won office in NZ is a very unusual case - unique worldwide as far as elected officials is concerned. Georgina Beyer, MP for Wairarapa (in the southeast of the North Island) had spent time inside for being a prostitute. A MALE prostitute, back when she was called George. Oh, there are also a couple of Green Party MPs who have been arrested for civil disobedience type things, but they don't count as felonies. One of those MPs (Sue Bradford) proudly claims that before becoming an MP, the previous time she'd been in Parliament Buildings she was arrested for trespass. IIRC, the other (Nandor Tanczos) got done for, erm, owning some non-tobacco produce, again not a felony. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:39:39 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: RE: Holy voting felons, Batman! Who said that American politicians don't believe in buying votes? >``Actions have consequences. Our U.N. friends have an option -- if > they would like to get the payment, they will vote the United States back > on the commission,'' said Rep. Tom Lantos (news - bio - voting record) > of California, the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations > Committee and co-sponsor of the proposal with the committee's > chairman, Republican Rep. Henry Hyde (news - bio - voting record) of > Illinois. from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010510/ts/un_usa_congress_dc_3.html Embarrassing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:53:42 -0700 From: Eb Subject: reap The XFL. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:39:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: reap On Thu, 10 May 2001, Eb wrote: > The XFL. This is so pathetic. I mean, it says their total after tax losses on the thing is $35M. That's paltry chicken feed to someone like Vince McMahon and NBC. They have DEEP pockets. They could have stuck this out for five years and made something of it... five years at $35M per is only $175M... Even if they paid that out all at once, it wouldn't amount to more than a fifth of their annual operating budget... and that's if WWFE DIDN'T have NBC as a partner. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 20:29:12 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: reap on 5/10/01 5:53 PM, Eb wrote: > The XFL. ;) You *ARE* the weakest league...Goodbye! Cheers! - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: hidden tracks Ken Ostrander wrote: > >> >Beck -- "Untitled" from Mutations > >> > >> Yeah...that's a good one. > > > >i'm under the impression it's called "Diamond Bollocks." > > really? any particular reason? i love that song. cuz when i found the lyrics on a couple different Beck websites, they all listed it as "Diamond Bollocks." ===== "Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." Mark Twain Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:26:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: RE: Some Christians Can Turn Buddhist, Study Suggests Aaron Mandel wrote: > Poole, R. Edward wrote: > > Sorry for the rant, but the whole "lifestyle choice" thing is just > > window-dressing for severe homophobia. > i agree, but on the other hand, it's not like i think there'd be > something *wrong* with being gay if it turned out sexuality was 100% > voluntary, unlikely as that seems. i greatly dislike the idea of > basing gay rights initiatives on the idea that people just can't help > themselves; in the US we have at least nominal protection against > religious discrimination, and there's no WAY that religious belief is > biologically determined. and it's not like the argument that sexual orientation is biologically determined matters much to a lot of these pseudo-christian sociopaths anyways, since i've heard many of them say that that just means that when we find the "gene" (nevermind the other possible biological factors), we can just genetically engineer it out of existance. these scum don't really care whether or not gay people can "help it;" they just want to "cleanse" society of them by any means necessary. ===== "Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." Mark Twain Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:27:15 -0500 From: steve Subject: More on "getting strait" Virginia Postrel, of Reason Magazine: > SEX, RELIGION, AND STATISTICS: A new study has once again put the "can > gays change" debate in the news (New York Times here and Washington Post > here). In a phone survey of 200 people who had formerly lived as > homosexuals and now live as heterosexuals, Robert Spitzer, a Columbia > University psychiatrist, found that two-thirds of the men and 44 percent > of the women had achieved "good heterosexual functioning" for at least a > year. I don't particularly trust phone surveys, especially about sex and > intimate thoughts, and those don't sound like overwhelming results to me > (a year? not even half the women?), but the hysterical reaction from gay > political groups is silly. It's not exactly surprising that, in a country > of well over a quarter billion people, it's possible to find 94 men and > 24 women who fit the "ex-gay" story. I examined this issue in some depth > in a 1998 Reason editorial. The details have changed, but the arguments > haven't. Neither has their importance for issues that have nothing to do > with sexuality. I disagree that it is silly for gay political groups to raise a stink. In a country where the media consuming public has next to zero attention span, it's important to get your soundbites out just as quickly as possible. Just look at how well the Big Lie has served the Republicans over the last few months. http://www.reason.com/9810/ed.vp.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/09/health/09GAY.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010509/aponline013921_000. htm - - Steve __________ Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown! - Darph Bobo http://www.trippingtherift.com/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #193 ********************************