From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest)
To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org
Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #189
Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org
Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org
Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org
Precedence: bulk


fegmaniax-digest        Wednesday, May 9 2001        Volume 10 : Number 189



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: a dreaded "me too" post         [Terrence Marks <normal@grove.ufl.edu>]
  Re: a dreaded "shit rock" post                  [GSS <gshell@metronet.com>]
  hmph                          ["Natalie Jacobs" <emma_blowgun@hotmail.com>]
  hidden tracks                        ["Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>]
  Volume 5                                      [Jill Brand <jlbrand@bu.edu>]
  extra hidden email                 ["ross taylor" <protay2@eudoramail.com>]
  Re: hidden tracks                             [Glen Uber <uberg@sonic.net>]
  nostalgia                       ["Andrew D. Simchik" <drew@stormgreen.com>]
  Re: more stuff than necessary being replied to  [Stephen Mahoney <stephenm]
  Re: Non-voting Floridians mean less trouble for everyone...  [Stephen Maho]
  1984 vs. 1987                   ["Andrew D. Simchik" <drew@stormgreen.com>]
  Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests     [GSS <gshell@metronet.com>]
  memory                               ["Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>]
  voting                               ["Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>]
  RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  ["Poole, R. Edward" <Pool]
  RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  [GSS <gshell@metronet.com]
  Re: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  [Tom Clark <tclark@rearde]
  RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  [Aaron Mandel <aaron@eecs]
  RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  ["Poole, R. Edward" <Pool]
  Re: hidden tracks                         [Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>]
  Re: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests  ["victorian squid" <v.squ]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:34:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Terrence Marks <normal@grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: a dreaded "me too" post

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Natalie Jacobs wrote:

> Yes!! Yes!!  Hey, irony-hounds - Culture Club and Duran Duran sucked then, 
> and THEY STILL SUCK!!!

I gotta disagree.  Medazzaland was a good album.  I'm not too keen on
their other stuff, but I really liked that one.

Terrence Marks
Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com
The Nice (an organization for comic strips) http://nice.purrsia.com
normal@grove.ufl.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:51:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: GSS <gshell@metronet.com>
Subject: Re: a dreaded "shit rock" post

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Natalie Jacobs wrote:
> Speaking of Nostaligic Retrospective Elevation, there's a trend amongst 
> Portland hipsters (and probably elsewhere as well), wherein said hipsters 
> claim to adore the shittiest of shitty hair metal.  There's one thrift store 
> which blares this shit all the time on the store PA, so innocent shoppers 
> are subjected to a constant onslaught of Skid Row and Poison.  It's 
> "ironic," you know.

Man, talk about cruel and unusual punishment. Do they play Ratt and
Warrant and Motley Crue and Dokken and W.A.S.P. and Quiet Riot and Bon
Jovi too? I think I'm gonna puke. I can't believe I could type that much
CRAP in one sentence. A couple months ago I was somehow weaseled into
going to a club over by Richland College in North Dallas. I should have
known something wasn't right since I had never heard of the club and my
date had teased her bleached blond hair so she looked like the lead guitar
player from Poison. I mean she did have a nice butt and everything but
goddamn there is no butt worth the kinda hell I was in for. When we walked
in, I thought it was ten years previous and The Basement was at its peak
and Skid Row was on stage. Anyone on the list from Dallas remember The
Basement or Dallas City Limits? Everyone in the club looked exactly the
same and all the guys were shorter than their dates. Why is there a
relationship between that type of music and short men?  I nursed a couple
beers all night and talked about how much each song sucked and made
requests for Nick Drake and early Genesis. I guess I was lucky to get out
with all my teeth still in my mouth.

gSs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 11:27:10 -0700
From: "Natalie Jacobs" <emma_blowgun@hotmail.com>
Subject: hmph

The Soft Boys paper dolls are sheer genius.  They need shoes, though.  I 
think Robyn would look smashing in a pair of red spike heels and that pink 
tutu.

I knew someone would come to the defense of Culture Club and Duran Duran.  I 
actually retain a sneaking fondness for the latter, but I still think they 
suck, objectively speaking.  Now, if someone comes to the defense of Howard 
Jones, I think the apocalypse is nigh.

n.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:34:20 -0700 
From: "Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>
Subject: hidden tracks

So, this Jewels talk raises the following poll question: what is your
favorite "secret" or "hidden" CD track (this trick is so old, it's hard to
call it a secret, but...)

1. Nirvana -- "untitled" aka "Verse Chorus Verse," from the "No Alternative"
compilation
2. Beck -- "Untitled" from Mutations
3. Robyn -- "Gene Hackman" from JfS

I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but those are my
favorites, anyway... I think?

- ---1.2 EuroTrash Girl - Cracker
Chas
http://theweeklywalker.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:40:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jill Brand <jlbrand@bu.edu>
Subject: Volume 5

I have the 2nd Ernest Brookings CD, and it is way cool.  XTC (really
mostly Andy Partridge) and Young Fresh Fellows have tracks on it (as well
as my friend Glenn's band 7 or 8 Worm Hearts).  David G. just sent me a
stack of Duplex Planets and didn't mention a word about Robyn.  

Jill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:55:08 -0400
From: "ross taylor" <protay2@eudoramail.com>
Subject: extra hidden email

Probably everyone on this list has already
posted the same thought but I forgot:

1)"Bonnie and Clyde" Luna, Penthouse

And

Yay scary mary! New media lives yet!

Ross Taylor



Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:57:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Uber <uberg@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: hidden tracks

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Walker, Charles wrote:

>1. Nirvana -- "untitled" aka "Verse Chorus Verse," from the "No Alternative"
>compilation
>2. Beck -- "Untitled" from Mutations
>3. Robyn -- "Gene Hackman" from JfS

The Clash -- "Train In Vain" from _London Calling_
The Beatles -- "Her Majesty" from _Abbey Road_
The fade-in and fade-out closing on Paul Weller's first solo album were
not really hidden, but cool nonetheless.

Cheers!
- -g-

"To ask permission is to seek denial."
- --Steve Jobs, co-founder, Apple Computer

)+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+(
)
) Glen Uber // uberg at sonic dot net // Santa Rosa, California
)
)+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 12:22:45 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Simchik" <drew@stormgreen.com>
Subject: nostalgia

>From: HAL <hbrandt@milehigh.net>
>
> > >[Hal thinks early 80s New Wave sucked ass]
>
>No! I mostly just roll my eyes at the Nostalgic Retrospective Elevation
>of the inferior stuff that made it to the radio (with a few rare
>exceptions).

I didn't know that was what we were doing.  Most of the albums
we were discussing were by artists on your list.  It's true
that I had to wait to discover most of them (though of course
I remember "Mexican Radio" and "True"), but it doesn't really
change my feeling that (a) there was a lot of great music going
on then, and (b) the related music that made it to the radio
set me up for discovering and liking it later.

- --
Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com
http://www.stormgreen.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Mahoney <stephenm@multcolib.org>
Subject: Re: more stuff than necessary being replied to

just listened to the first four years this morning
'78-83 of black flag
16 tracks clocking in at an incredibly lengthy 26 minutes exactly.
didnt know that this was before henry rollins joined the group!
will have to add this to my angry music list!


> If it wasn't for 1978-83 new wave, I'd probably never have got involved in
> music at all. XTC, Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Echo and the Bunnymen, The
> Cure, Blondie, Talking Heads, Gary Numan, Devo, Siouxsie, The Police,
> Martha and the Muffins (who?), and even the likes of Jona Lewie and Modern
> English (anyone else remember them?). Locally, too, there were bands like
> MiSex. That and punk (which for me meant the Clash more than anything else)
> blew disco and pompous stadium-country-megalo-bland music like the Eagles
> off the map - at least briefly. It was like someone opening the curtains to
> let in some daylight.
> 
> Re: Hidden tracks, I'd vote for the title track of Dollshead's "Frozen
> Charlotte" album, and the hidden eleventh track on Superjesus's "Sumo"
> album
> 
> >The tunefulness of all vocalist seemed suspect to me last night... with
> >the exception, of course, of Martin Leper (or however that is spelled) and
> >his wife Rebecca, who absolutely nailed Art's harmonies in their cover of
> >The Only Living Boy in New York (which I'm listening to right now, well,
> >not their cover).
> 
> ooo. possibly my favourite Simon and Garfunkel song - and it has made so
> much more sense since discovering what it's about.
> 
> >in 95-96 it was completely redone and is now without doors leading to
> >old unused spaces ( anyone remember the newspaper reading room?)leaks due
> >to the train,
> 
> my vote for strange mental image of the week!
> 
> James
> 
> PS - Dewey ref. 023 = "Librarians"
> 
> np - Rock Lobster, The B52s
> 
>    James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=
>    -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-
>    .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance
>    -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time
>    =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River")
> 


Number of Floridian ex-cons denied the right to vote last November because
of felony convictions : 525,000

     Source: Brennan Center for Justice (N.Y.C.)

Number of times a Floridian can be convicted of DUI before the infraction
becomes a felony : 3

     Source: Mothers Against Drunk Driving (Irving, Tex.)


Stephen Mahoney                                   
Multnomah County Library at Rockwood branch clerk 
stephenm@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us              
503-988-5396                                      
fax 503-988-5178                                      

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Mahoney <stephenm@multcolib.org>
Subject: Re: Non-voting Floridians mean less trouble for everyone...

it was something I picked up from harpers index, which coincidently is
found in harpers magazine.
I also see no reason why inmates should not vote.
- -Mahoney

On Tue, 8 May 2001, Motherfucking Asshole wrote:
> 
> i cannot think of a single reason why inmates should not be allowed to vote.

Number of Floridian ex-cons denied the right to vote last November because
of felony convictions : 525,000

     Source: Brennan Center for Justice (N.Y.C.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 13:07:43 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Simchik" <drew@stormgreen.com>
Subject: 1984 vs. 1987

>From: Jeff Dwarf <munki1972@yahoo.com>
>
>in terms of song quality, Strangeways and Smiths are a push.

I don't agree entirely (and Strangeways was my first Smiths
album, so there's no nostalgia involved here), but I don't
disagree strongly enough to take up arms.  :)

>but the
>production on Smiths is terrible;

See, here already we are speaking different languages.  This
doesn't really register when I decide whether I like one album
over another.  I have a little 12-CD case containing representative
albums from my favorite artists (the first 8 or 9 slots are stable
but the last 3 sometimes shift around), and _The Smiths_ is the one
I carry around.  I agree it has a really flat and murky tone to it,
but I kind of like that.

>there isn't one song on it that i
>don't prefer the Hatful of Hollow version.

No argument -- but they're the same songs.  :)

>I like Reckoning a lot, but "Lightning Hopkins" or "Oddfellows
>Local 151" or "Welcome to the Occupation" or "Disturbance at the Heron
>House" kick it's ass, even if "It's the End of the World" is incredibly
>overplayed.

The first REM I ever heard was "The One I Love" and I just hated
it.  I've mellowed toward it since then but it's still not one of
my favorites.  Likewise, I really liked the first side of Document
but often fast-forwarded through the second side.  Apart from "King
of Birds" I'm still not a big fan of it, including the songs you
mention.  "Occupation" and "Heron House" are unassailable, yes, but
once again we're running up against my love of texture.  Reckoning
has the one I like; Document doesn't, as much.  I was listening to
Green in the car yesterday and today and I think it's the last album
that carried that dense, thorny REM sound the way I liked it.  After
that they became a somewhat different, looser, less exciting band for
me.  I realize this is heresy, but Automatic For the People was my
least favorite REM album for a long time (now I rate it on par with
New Adventures in Hi-Fi and Up, and well below Monster, if that gives
you any idea as to just how tasteless I am).

>From: "Natalie Jacobs" <emma_blowgun@hotmail.com>
>
>Yes!! Yes!!  Hey, irony-hounds - Culture Club and Duran Duran sucked then,
>and THEY STILL SUCK!!!

Your opinion is noted.

I don't recall attributing the appeal of their
delightful trashiness to "irony," though.  Maybe I deleted the sentence
in which I pointed out to Hal that some of us are capable of loving music
we don't respect and (to a lesser extent) vice versa.  For instance,
I love most of Duran Duran's albums.  That doesn't mean I respect them,
but it doesn't mean I think they "SUCK!!!" and enjoy them _because_ they
suck.  I truly, truly enjoy them.  On the other hand, while I respect,
say, Nirvana, or Hendrix, I don't really enjoy their music very much and so I
don't listen to it very often.  I certainly don't "love" it and feel
close to it in any way.  The two emotions often occur together for me
regarding music, but not always.

I don't actually listen to Culture Club more than once in a blue moon
(paging cliche Dobermans), and the less said about Boy George solo the
better, but I feel warmly about them and for what they were -- a lightweight,
campy pop group -- they were far less offensively awful than many.  As
for Duran Duran...they are in a category of one, and splendid in their
glammy tastelessness.  Whenever I put on _Greatest_ I am in heaven.

I generally assume that the reason I can barely sit through a single
Of Montreal song is not that "THEY SUCK!!!"  There's no accounting for
taste.

>[ironic hair metal]

>One very, very self-consciously hip guy that I know claims to like this
>stuff whole-heartedly and not because it's trendy, but I don't believe him.

I went through a brief phase where I loved to listen to Guns 'n' Roses,
Def Leppard, and Cinderella.  This probably had a lot to do with (a)
learning to play guitar from a guy who didn't realize that I didn't want
to play blazing metal lead riffs and (b) being seriously hot for long-haired
guys at the time, but if I filter out the ridiculous poses I can still
enjoy the tunes today.  I hated Skid Row and Poison then and now, but
I'm sure you'd lump the ones I liked in with them, wouldn't you?

I know there are a lot of stoopid hipsters out there.  I think they
come in tediously ironic and stridently anti-ironic flavors, and I
belong to neither camp.

Drew


- --
Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen dot com
http://www.stormgreen.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:21:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: GSS <gshell@metronet.com>
Subject: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

I thought this was kinda funny. If this is true,
then the inverse would also be true, right? Cause
all of us can remember the day we made the choice,
right? Hell I remember the day I woke-up thinking,
"Barbara or Frank,,, ok Barbara".

- -----------------------------------------------------
A psychiatric study to be released Wednesday says
some gay people can become "straight" if they want to.

Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, the professor of psychiatry at
Columbia University who led the study, said he can't
estimate what percentage of highly motivated gay people
can change their sexual orientation, but he did say that
his research "shows some people can change from gay to 
straight, and we ought to acknowledge that."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,24284,00.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:21:44 -0700 
From: "Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>
Subject: memory

A just remembered line from the Soft Boys show in LA Knitting Factory: "Back
in the 70's there were a lot more wires all over. Now there is just more
electricity." Refering to the monitors and guitar/amp set ups. I think he
also introduced one songs as, "this song comes from before the time of
monitors." or something like that. Of course today, here in California, the
quip about electricity might prove erroneous. Still, funny how the brain
just perks up occasionally and then goes right back to blissful slumber.
chas in LA
http://www.theweeklywalker.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:36:42 -0700 
From: "Walker, Charles" <CWalker@roll.com>
Subject: voting

>>> Number of Floridian ex-cons denied the right to vote last November 
>>> because of felony convictions : 525,000

>> good ol dubyas bro making it hard for ex-cons to have any voice

>I'm not really a Bush supporter in anything, but I think this is certainly
>a very sensible rule...anyway, I think this is true for most states...

I'm not sure it's true for *most* states, though it might not necessarily
be unconstitutional... but those numbers are a bit high, don't you think?
I might be living in a fantasy world, but 525,000 ex-con felons is a rather
high number in a state of what, 12 million? Even if that state is Florida!
If it were the total number of convicted felons *including* people in
prison, then yeah, sure, I guess. But 525,000 ex-con felons? Seems like
a lot to me. I could be wrong, of course...

More than 1 in 24 [525,000 out of 12million] people are already in prison at
this point alone, not all felons surely, but that is still a lot. The USA
has the highest rate of incarceration of it's population of any
industrialized country in modern history, including Stalinist era Russia. I
believe that over 1/2 of the US's black male population has been
incarcerated at some point in their lives and there are more black males in
prison today than inrolled in college. We lock em up, esp black folks, and
pretend like they ain't getting out or that they are 'cured.' Those numbers
do not surprise me at all.
But you are right, nobody was 'denied' the right to vote, this is standard
everywhere in the USA. and it existed well before the "Shrubs" got into the
game.
chas
http://www.theweeklywalker.com 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:37:33 -0400
From: "Poole, R. Edward" <PooleR@dsmo.com>
Subject: RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

I thought this was kinda funny. If this is true,
then the inverse would also be true, right? Cause
all of us can remember the day we made the choice,
right? Hell I remember the day I woke-up thinking,
"Barbara or Frank,,, ok Barbara".

Unfortunately, the "inverse" you suggest is the basis for much gay-bashing
and hate-mongering, particularly in the schools.  At the local, school board
level, the religious self-righteous is packing committees with its members,
warning officials and parents of the "gay agenda" to "recruit" new
"members," using the insidious devices of preaching tolerance and
understanding, and even telling 4th graders that *gasp* homosexuality is a
"normal" "condition" and not an abomination before the Lord.  There are even
mass-produced videos (straight from Colorado Springs, home of Americans for
Family Values, or whatever the name of that organization that sponsored the
Colorado constitutional amendment about eight years ago that would have
prevented Colorado lawmakers from passing anti-discrimination laws based on
sexual orientation), that take scenes from the most outlandish SF gay pride
parades and add a voice over "Do you want your 8 year old to be taught in
school that this is a "normal, healthy" lifestyle?"  Also included are
lovely snippets about how sex ed = promiscuity; homosexuality = AIDS;
tolerance = hellfire; etc etc.

Sorry for the rant, but the whole "lifestyle choice" thing is just
window-dressing for severe homophobia.

- -ed

============================================================================This e-mail message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering this confidential communication to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error, and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this e-mail message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this confidential communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail message and permanently delete the original message. 

To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to postmaster@dsmo.com

Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP
http://www.legalinnovators.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:43:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: GSS <gshell@metronet.com>
Subject: RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Poole, R. Edward wrote:
> Sorry for the rant, but the whole "lifestyle choice" thing is just
> window-dressing for severe homophobia.

Yep, that was my point.

gSs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 13:58:32 -0700
From: Tom Clark <tclark@reardensteel.com>
Subject: Re: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

on 5/9/01 1:21 PM, GSS at gshell@metronet.com wrote:

> Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, the professor of psychiatry at
> Columbia University who led the study, said he can't
> estimate what percentage of highly motivated gay people
> can change their sexual orientation,

I like the phrasing here.  On the surface it makes it sound like those who
don't switch are just slackers.  "Well, I could take the time to change my
sexual orientation, or just watch Wheel of Fortune.  Ah, fuck it..."

- -tc, a highly motivated heterosexual.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:09:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Mandel <aaron@eecs.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Poole, R. Edward wrote:

> Sorry for the rant, but the whole "lifestyle choice" thing is just
> window-dressing for severe homophobia.

i agree, but on the other hand, it's not like i think there'd be something
*wrong* with being gay if it turned out sexuality was 100% voluntary,
unlikely as that seems. i greatly dislike the idea of basing gay rights
initiatives on the idea that people just can't help themselves; in the US
we have at least nominal protection against religious discrimination, and
there's no WAY that religious belief is biologically determined.

a

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:29:18 -0400
From: "Poole, R. Edward" <PooleR@dsmo.com>
Subject: RE: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

On Wed, 9 May 2001, Poole, R. Edward wrote:

>> Sorry for the rant, but the whole "lifestyle choice" thing is just
>> window-dressing for severe homophobia.

And Aaron Mandel responded:

>i agree, but on the other hand, it's not like i think there'd be something
>*wrong* with being gay if it turned out sexuality was 100% voluntary,
>unlikely as that seems. i greatly dislike the idea of basing gay rights
>initiatives on the idea that people just can't help themselves; in the US
>we have at least nominal protection against religious discrimination, and
>there's no WAY that religious belief is biologically determined.

You're right, of course, but the point is that for these people,
homosexuality is perceived as per se wrong, and the "choice" issue is used
as a justification for condemning the *person*, as opposed to the
"practice."  (though it seems to contradict the "hate the sin, not the
sinner" principle that supposedly underlies their beliefs.)  If you take as
a given that there is nothing "wrong" with homosexuality, than the choice
question is irrelevant.

However, as far as the rights question goes, I don't entirely agree with
you.  I deplore the status/conduct distinction that lies at the heart of
"don't ask, don't tell," but to have meaningful antidiscrimination
protection based on sexual orientation, there has to be some grounding other
than "a person who engages in _____ sexual activities." (I myself, have
practiced, ahem, a few sexual activities that are currently illegal in
virginia (even when I lived there!), georgia, and numerous other states with
anti-sodomy legislation, though I self-identify as heterosexual (and the
other participant was female)).    If a gay man can't get a date for a
while, or chooses to be celibate, is he "straight" for that time period?
Ummm, no.  So the idea of antidiscrimination laws being targeted at
"practicing homosexuals," akin to your religious analogy (i.e., practicing
christian), strikes me as absurd and wrong-headed.  Particularly in a Bowers
v. Hardwick world, where the Supreme Court says its ok for the states to
outlaw sodomy -- not to mention their rejection of religious use of ganja by
rastafarians.  If we use "conduct" as a defining criterion, we are on very
shaky ground.  I'm sure I'm being unfair to your example -- you probably
just mean we protect against other forms or self-expression /
self-definition that are not apparent just by looking at a person, like, say
race or gender.  If so, I'm with you.  Just so long as my college friend
keith who's "not gettin' any," in the common parlance, is excluded.


============================================================================This e-mail message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering this confidential communication to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error, and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this e-mail message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this confidential communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail message and permanently delete the original message. 

To reply to our email administrator directly, send an email to postmaster@dsmo.com

Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP
http://www.legalinnovators.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 18:17:48 -0400
From: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: hidden tracks

>I don't have a favorite off the top of my head for hidden tracks, but most 
>annoying in this category has to go to track #98 on the Stone Roses "Second 
>Coming".  In fact, any cd that hides tracks beyond 30 or so are irratating 
>by nature.

like a really long joke with a bad punchline.  no one's laughing.  a fad that
seems to have met its timely demise.

there one t.a.f.k.a.prince album (_new power soul_) where the best song ("why i
waste my kisses on you baby...") on the album is one of these.  "hey, let's
hide the best song so that no one will hear it except the diehard fans who
actually listen to the whole thing."

the only other track worth wading through all that for that i can recall is the
aforementioned 'eurotrash girl'.

>> >Beck -- "Untitled" from Mutations
>> 
>> Yeah...that's a good one.
>
>i'm under the impression it's called "Diamond Bollocks."

really?  any particular reason?  i love that song.  


>>Nirvana -- "untitled" aka "Verse Chorus Verse," from the "No Alternative"
>>compilation

better yet, that hidden track at the end of _nevermind_.

>The Beatles -- "Her Majesty" from _Abbey Road_

not hidden.  what's that goofy bit at the end of _sgt pepper_ though?

>The Clash -- "Train In Vain" from _London Calling_

isn't it on the label on the actual record?  what are those thingies called
anyhow?  i think the story was that it was recorded very late in the sessions,
after the sleeve was already printed.

on the pixies _surfer rose/come on pilgrim_ disk i have, there's a hidden track
of studio banter somewhere in the middle.  "you fuckin' die!"

on his last album (_rave u2 the joy fantastic_) as t.a.f.k.a.prince had a cool
hidden track, better than the most of the actual album.  'pretty man'

g.love & special sauce have one on their last album _philadelphonic_.


ken  "under fifteen feet of pure white snow"  the kenster

np       lost somewhere between the earth and my home          geraldine
fibbers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:26:18 -0700
From: "victorian squid" <v.squid@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Some Gays Can Turn Straight, Study Suggests

In regards to silly article posted by GSS (thanks Greg!):

>estimate what percentage of highly motivated gay people
>can change their sexual orientation,

I agree with TC, the wording here is pretty funny. It kinda suggests that 
people who haven't done this yet are just slacking off and probably have 
overdue library books too. 

I'd be interested to hear what this guy thinks about bisexuals.

>his research "shows some people can change from gay to 
>straight, and we ought to acknowledge that."

He ought to acknowledge that at least a few of these folks eventually "reverted", 
including two of the FOUNDERS of Exodus (a vocal ex-gay ministry) who left 
their wives for each other and remained together until one of them died of AIDS 
some years ago. What would he say, that they just didn't try hard enough? I also 
wonder what he'd have to say about the fact that a lot of the so-called converts are celibate rather than actively hetero. Certainly people can and do choose to live 
celibate, but that doesn't mean their preference changed.

loveonya,
susan


Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

------------------------------

End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #189
********************************