From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #160 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 10 : Number 160 Today's Subjects: ----------------- public transit and cities [Viv Lyon ] Mind is Connected lyrics mkII ["Mike wells" ] Re: let's go ride a bike [Viv Lyon ] Re: let's go ride a bike/so Jeme wasn't wearing underpants either???? [lj] Re: some digests ["ross taylor" ] Coincidence? You decide! [Viv Lyon ] Re: trash or treasure? You decide! [Stephen Mahoney ] Re: Beatles? [Eb ] speaking of the onion... ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] pedestrian accidents [Melissa Higuchi ] Re: Beatles? [Glen Uber ] Re: Beatles? [JH3 ] accidents will happen [Viv Lyon ] Re: Beatles? [Terrence Marks ] Re: let's go ride a bike ["victorian squid" ] Ghost Threads 4 ["Spring Cherry" ] Re: accidents will happen [Stephen Mahoney ] Re: Ghost Threads 4 [Viv Lyon ] Re: let's go ride a bike ["brian nupp" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: public transit and cities On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > So while you might not *like* them, please spare a kind thought for our > friend the bus! All hail the bus! The bus makes it possible for me to ride my bike partway to work, and then just when the incline becomes too great for my paltry seven gears, I can put it on the bus and ride the rest of the way in comfort and style. > There was a good article in Scientific American a few years ago, > about a city in Brazil where city planning relies heavily on an extensive > bus system; it should be of interest to both the most craven moderate > reformer and the most foolish Ecotopian idealist. I'll check it out. You know, there are groups all over the world who are working on ways to improve the quality of life through urban design and public transportation. One of the things that I've been interested in recently is architecture, particularly the New Urbanists. I caught a slide show by this guy on public access once, and was glad to run across his web page: http://www.kunstler.com/index.html The Eyesore of the Month is particularly enjoyable. Basically, what the New Urbanists recommend is designing or redesigning cities with a more human-scale to them. The opposite of Mies van der Rohe, essentially. And public transportation, as well as practical use of cars, is a big part of that human-scale. At http://www.newurbannews.com/links.html, there is a list of cities that have incorporated the idea of New Urbanism or sustainability into their city planning. Some are more successful than others, some distinctly smack of Ferris' abhorred "hollow, foul" engineered cities, and others seem genuinely concerned with correcting the mistakes of suburban sprawl. Fairview Village, Longleaf, and Aldea de Santa Fe are three that I thought had approximately the right idea. I'm not wild about the idea of prefab towns, but I am wild about the idea of working on alternatives to giant box stores and mile-wide parking lots. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:50:37 -0500 From: "Mike wells" Subject: Mind is Connected lyrics mkII At the risk of shunting the discussion back to RH lyrics, after repeated listenings I might propose the following alternative reading of "Mind is Connected": "The butler emerges from the hole With a TRAIL of diamonds..." The "butler" is a "guide" reacting to a key / trigger / activator of something that is popping up from your subconcious. I think this works with the whole 'connected to your dreams' premise...the 'skull' of Africa feels to me like a metaphor for older or "original" man, an older version of yourself or even the persistance of cultural memory (I haven't got the "horn of Florida" part worked out yet ;-p). Thus the butler is bringing out of the "hole" - your dreaming subconcious - a "trail" of memories, feelings, impressions etc popping into the light (diamonds). Kind of like following the 'thread' of your dream backwards, in a way. I know the butler - "tray" imagery works, i.e. butler carrying a tray, but I hear something else in there. I've got three live shows from this tour so far, and I think it's "Trail" on at least two of them, but then again I may be completely insane. Someone else made a nice post about RH's lyrics being written in the "twilight" with room for multiple interpretations, so here's another one: "The Butler emerges from the HOLD With a TRAIL of diamonds..." I think this one less likely, but it might follow on the 'slavery' metaphor that was brought up in other posts. The "hold," or below-decks area where slaves were kept might also your own 'below-decks' or subconcious, and diamonds represent the treasure / guilt coming off the ship or out of your memory. Thoughts for a day... Michael "Sally was only a teeny-tiny little cult figure when I knew her" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:01:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: let's go ride a bike On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, lj lindhurst wrote: > Miraculously, as if the hand of God had come up behind me and given > me a little scoop, I managed to flip completely over and land STANDING > UP, with my bike tangled up in my skirt between my legs. This happened to Jeme once (without the skirt, of course). I called him the luckiest man alive. Then a couple days later he was run off the road by a guy in a truck and cracked some ribs. So much for lucky. > Oh, one more amazing fact about this story (that I probably shouldn't > mention): I WASN'T WEARING UNDERPANTS!!! One of the best days of my life occurred on the only day I ever rode my bike without underpants while wearing a skirt. Hmm. Hmmmmmm. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:04:40 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: let's go ride a bike/so Jeme wasn't wearing underpants either???? >One of the best days of my life occurred on the only day I ever rode my >bike without underpants while wearing a skirt. Hmm. Hmmmmmm. > >Vivien Surely this is a good story....huh? huh??? One of my girlfriends swears that there is a weight machine at the gym that gives her orgasms. It's that ab machine where you straddle the seat and then move your torso forward and back. I myself prefer the stationary bike. l "I get that funny feeling like when we climb the rope in gym class" j - -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ LJ Lindhurst White Rabbit Graphic Design NYC ljl@w-rabbit.com http://www.w-rabbit.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Hey Mikey, whatever happened to the fucking Duke of Earl?" --Randy Newman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:25:13 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: Re: some digests On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:02:42 Tom Clark wrote: >on 4/26/01 8:05 AM, ross taylor at protay2@eudoramail.com wrote: > >> "We've got a lot of nutters in power >> I'd give my life for a gun and an hour >> I'd shoot them all down in the streets" > >Is this an alternate version, or a paraphrasing? >I've always heard it: >"We've got a bunch of crippled loonies in power >< That wanna treat us to a nuclear shower > >I'd give my life for just a gun and an hour >I'd murder them out in the streets" Brain fart, + didn't go look it up. Since having constant access to Google my memory has deteriorated. >Btw, what is the definition of a "nutter", and Crazy person; i.e., internutter=internet addict. >why was Nick Lowe "nutted by >reality"? Because he was only "36 Inches High"? Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Coincidence? You decide! Chris Gross recommended reading an article about Curitiba, Brazil. I had every intention of doing so, but not until I'd finished perusing the site I was looking at (www.living-room.org). Surprise, surprise... here's an excerpt of the first article I choose to look at: Garbage To Live By by Art Montague Food scarcity, poverty and pollution are linked around the world. They are not always ties that bind. Here are three examples where people have responded to food scarcity with solutions that also relieve poverty and reduce pollution. In some parts of the world, one person's garbage has become another's salvation. Can we imagine countries with no welfare checks, no food banks, no food stamps? We try, but we fall short because the notions seem alien, almost uncivilized. So, we donate goods and cash to international causes which inundate us with slick infomercials featuring starving, fly-infested children and Hollywood television stars who film pleas from refugee camps and then hop into their chauffeured Land Rovers for the trip back to the local Hilton or Marriott. So be it. But, away from the spotlights, in hundreds of cities, millions of people are making their way independent of the aid culture. I list three here: in Cairo, in Bangkok, and in Curitiba, Brazil. There are many more. (skipping to Curitiba) Finally, in Brazil we have the example of Curitiba, a city of 2.1 million southeast of Rio de Janeiro. Here the rural-urban connection for food supply has been refined into a significant part of the city's overall "green" sustainability program. In Curitiba, the poor collect the city's garbage and exchange it for surplus vegetables from rural producers. This and other creative programs have resulted in Curitiba's per capita income being more than double that of the rest of the country. Hundreds of small, related projects abound. The garbage can be traded for school books and bus tokens. Value-added recycling and re-use programs finance parks construction and pollution monitoring programs--all of this springing from the impetus to eat. As Paul Hawken and others have repeatedly pointed out in recent years, one of the the root principles of sustainability is that "waste equals food." It can also become a commodity in itself, so one can say the "garbage equals money." Food scarcity, poverty and pollution are subtly intertwined, and once we recognize the connections we can devise practices that solve all three problems in solving one. *** I found this all the more, um, serendipitous because "waste equals food" is one of Jeme's favorite saying these days. Usually he says this while scavenging food off my plate, though. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:58:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: Re: trash or treasure? You decide! And in Santa Fe , new mexico, some people build homes using old tires and other "junk", it would seem that one persons garbage can also be another persons home. On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Viv Lyon wrote: > garbage and exchange it for surplus vegetables from rural producers. This > and other creative programs have resulted in Curitiba's per capita income > being more than double that of the rest of the country. Hundreds of small, > related projects abound. The garbage can be traded for school books and > bus tokens. Value-added recycling and re-use programs finance parks > construction and pollution monitoring programs--all of this springing from > the impetus to eat. > > As Paul Hawken and others have repeatedly pointed out in recent years, one > of the the root principles of sustainability is that "waste equals food." > It can also become a commodity in itself, so one can say the "garbage > equals money." Food scarcity, poverty and pollution are subtly > intertwined, and once we recognize the connections we can devise practices > that solve all three problems in solving one. > > *** > > I found this all the more, um, serendipitous because "waste equals > food" is one of Jeme's favorite saying these days. Usually he says this > while scavenging food off my plate, though. > > Vivien "THE CATS ARE HUNGRY...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Alone, only a harmless pet... One thousand strong, They become a man-eating machine!" - -ad for THE NIGHT OF A THOUSAND CATS, 1972. Stephen Mahoney Multnomah County Library at Rockwood branch clerk stephenm@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us 503-988-5396 fax 503-988-5178 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:02:08 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: for Eddie and Eb http://www.gothic.net/~imperia/disney.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:25:04 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Beatles? Ross: >"The Pedestrian" by Ray Bradbury was the 1st >sci-fi story I ever read, and I just read it >to my daughter. Teach your children ... And appropriately enough, isn't Bradbury notorious for refusing to learn to drive all his life? Tom: >I think Robyn does Dylan better than Dylan does. I beg to differ...at least if you're talking about pre-'80s Dylan. ;) Eb, still wondering what's up with "Brown Paper Bag" (?) being called a Beatles song now ehhing, but giving them a friendly pat on the back for still putting out decent records after all these years: Bee Gees/This is Where I Came In ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:28:48 -0700 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: speaking of the onion... ...here's Dave Sim minus a healthy chunk of IQ. http://www.theonion.com/onion3715/women_dont_know.html - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen.com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:00:53 -0000 From: Melissa Higuchi Subject: pedestrian accidents Ok I can't find the original post that I was responding to but it makes lots of sense to me to that DC would have so many fatalities. The commuters here are nuts, the traffic is horrible and we also have lots of tourists and those pesky circles. I've seen people run through traffic to make buses or get to metro a second earlier. When drivers get lost on the circles here they decide that it means that they get to go where ever they want to go and they get to do it now regardless of what the lights, signs or lane markers say and regardless of whether or not there are pedestrians or cars in their way. I'm waiting for the first pedestrian rage incident. A couple of my friends in the area have tangled with cars and lived to tell the tale. One was mowed down by a taxi in Old Town and the other one took on a bus in Silver Spring. Melissa (who tangled with a car in October) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:05:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: Beatles? On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Mike Swedene wrote: >Any word on the song Robyn did for the McCartney (or >Beatles) tribute album thingie? I remember reading >something about it a while back... The McCartney tribute mentioned about a year ago turned out to be just a rumor. Recently however, there was an announcement of the release of a legitimate McCartney tribute with the Soft Boys doing "Let Me Roll It". There may be something about it in the fegmania.org archives. Cheers! - -g- )+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+( ) ) Glen Uber // uberg at sonic dot net // Santa Rosa, California ) )+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+()+( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:06:26 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: Beatles? >Eb, still wondering what's up with "Brown Paper Bag" (?) being called a >Beatles song Hey, I'd LOVE to know why "Brown Paper Bag" got listed as a Beatles number! I just publish (okay, "web-publish") this stuff; I don't necessarily make it up... It's probably a mistake, but there *are* some possibilities here. I don't have a copy myself (anybody?), and unfortunately, J.B. Jones isn't subscribed to feg these days... But tapes are known to exist of at least one of the two known/listed gigs in which it was supposed to have been played: Sam's Jams (Ferndale, Michigan US), 6/28/1989 (In-Store) Henry's Hideaway (Denver, Colorado US), 7/17/1990 It might be somehow related to Yoko Ono's quote after Lennon's death: "John -- who had everything a man could ever want -- came back to me in a brown paper bag in the end." The bag itself is supposed to still be in Yoko's possession, unopened - though for a while it was on display at the R&R Hall of Fame, in a temporary exhibit. Also, back when Sgt. Pepper was about to be released, Brian Epstein was supposed to have suggested that copies of the album be distributed in brown paper bags -- sort of like XTC's "Black Sea," only that was a green paper bag. (And at the risk of offending Natalie, I won't say which I think was the better album...tee-hee.) Anyway, this is all speculation. OTOH, most of what I send into this list is a pack of blatant lies, so hey, whatever. TC writes: >Hey, does that you-know-what have a list of Dylan covers? I think Robyn >does Dylan better than Dylan does. I'd love to see a whole show of devoted >to his Bawb-ness. In Dylan's case, you could go to http://www.jh3.com/robyn/base/ and just type "Dylan" in as the song-search term and check "Author," and I think you'd get pretty much all of them. I only sent in the Beatles list because some of them are listed as "George Harrison," and I also wanted to include the Lennon solo tunes. Also because I'm basically a wanker. The song Robyn was supposedly going to record for the McCartney hoax-tribute was called "Goodbye," a "previously unreleased" track. I wouldn't hold my breath, but you just never know! John "foul thee, drat" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: accidents will happen n Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Melissa Higuchi wrote: > Ok I can't find the original post that I was responding to but it makes lots > of sense to me to that DC would have so many fatalities. My friend Laura was killed by a car while riding her bike in DC. The person had parked and, failing to check for bikes, flung their car door open in her path. It knocked her into traffic. She died on the way to the hospital. I myself have nearly been hit like this a dozen times. Whenever I pass parked cars, I try to check to see if there's anyone inside. It's not always possible to tell, and certainly not possible to check every car. Drivers (and passengers) need to get into the habit of checking for bikes... it would be extremely unpleasant to be the cause of someone else's early demise. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:48:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence Marks Subject: Re: Beatles? On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, JH3 wrote: > >Eb, still wondering what's up with "Brown Paper Bag" (?) being called a > >Beatles song > > It's probably a mistake, but there *are* some possibilities here. I don't > have a copy myself (anybody?), and unfortunately, J.B. Jones isn't subscribed > to feg these days... But tapes are known to exist of at least one of the two > known/listed gigs in which it was supposed to have been played: I believe it was on either Uncarved Pumpkins or one of the first two Unhatched Crablings tapes. There was his horribly dull "novelty" song that Robyn claimed was written by someone else, called "He's in love with a brown paper bag", or something like that. I don't believe it's anything to do with the Beatles. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com The Nice (an organization for comic strips) http://nice.purrsia.com normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:53:21 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: let's go ride a bike lj lindhurst wrote: >neighborhood. No offense to any Puerto Rican fegs (???)(as if!), but >as any woman who walks the streets in New York can attest, they are >the most likely men to hoot, stare, whistle, or make crude sexual >remarks as you go by. It's just the way it is. Any woman who has ever walked the streets of Chicago can also attest to the veracity of this observation. I think the worst incident was the time some yelling guys in a car turned around and followed me several blocks. Altho the time this one guy got tired of my ignoring him and started getting hostile and "hey, you're not all that, bitch" is a real close second. This was a bit scarier than it might normally be because it didn't happen on the street, but in the alley behind my apartment. To really tie this all together, I'd just ridden home on my bike. Susan lived in two heavily puerto rican neighborhoods, has some tales Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:59:39 -0000 From: "Spring Cherry" Subject: Ghost Threads 4 Digests 149-159 Just want to say I like all the pro car-pool, bike, mass transit posts. And the general idea that we must stop destroying the very grounds of our existance if we want to keep existing. As for a livable urban-village enviroment Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" is an excellent guide to what works for many human beings. He looks at what works in indigenous cultures to make humans comfortable, and extrapolates from there. The part of Philly I live in has trains, buses, parks, festivals, community associations, all sorts of things which increase the common good by sharing resources and concerns. They also do something else. They increase the bonds between people, making this place a community not a society. And for me, that makes all the difference. Kenneth: >Habits can be changed without harming the organism, this is one of >the >evolutionary strengths of the human animal. One thing I like about discussions here, as long as they dont get rude, is that all these intelligent people saying interesting things causes you to think more critically, to really ask yourself what you really think. So ..... I agree we need to change before we destroy what allows us to be. Its seems to me that we in western culture(not -just- Americans, thou we are pretty egregious)are addicts. We have traded in our future for what appears to be a cheap high, only it aint. One of the main things we are addicted to is ego-gratification thru material objects. By identifying with and obtaining some product which is seen as luxerious, efficient,classy, sexy we ... I hope this dosnt sound too stupid ... we fool ourselves into feeling loved. We let our car make us feel beautiful instead of a real live other person. Well--another person takes work, give and take, not to mention the possiblility of loss. But an object is easy and safe. From this of course we can then move on to using other people as objects for even more of a cheap high. And the enviroment which produces and substains us is also -just- another object to use for a quick, never truely satisfying buzz. I dont think its chance that in the western world now addiction is such a problem. Its because its our way of life. To break this addiction or habit means finding a better way to feed our needs. Im not sure how to do this. Im much more of a questioner than someone with answers here. When induviduals are able to break addictions its often because they feel they have no choice but to change or find something deeper to get them thru. If people can break addictions so can cultures. But induviduals usually need to get pretty messed up before they are willing to change. One of the first steps is just plain realizing how addicted we are. I think working for that awareness is a postive step. It has nothing to do with violence but all with understanding. for Gillette: And it ends... "Have mercy on our uniform Man of peace, man of war The peacock spreads its fan" I was just thinking of the Judy Collins cover of it the other day. Its on "Who Knows Where the Time Goes" where Steven Stills runs the band and its great. Walker: >Rew acted like Sterling >Morrison to Lou Reed's Lou Reed-iness, Good one. Hedges- Robyn has covered Prudence, Bulldog and Twist and Shout! Suddenly the world feels like a better place. Ross on the 3rd Bob: >I think it would be clearer, but who knows what >he would do. Supposedly he prefered Vaudeville >& Broadway show tunes, just did blues because >the Man thought there was a market for Race >Records. Long live pop! you have got to be kidding! That is so funny. And -sooo- Amercian. Also, didnt know WCW did short stories....hmmm BTW--signed up for the member thing on UM, not just for the downloads(my home computers shot at the moment so that might not work out)but as they say, to show support. Maybe theyll throw us a free T-shirt someday;-) LJ of I WASN'T WEARING UNDERPANTS!!! If I can get up to NY for the Blake and see you and Quail, have a I got a story for you;-) KAy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:03:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: Re: accidents will happen I know of two cases of peds: one a friend of mine was walking his girlfriend down a road in rural maine and was struck from behind, died before making contact with the ground 15 feet away. the girl was in hysterics as her boyfriend was literally pulled and flew into the air from her hand in the other situation someone was walking down a not so busy street at 7 in the morning when a car swerved around the corner flying her through the air...since she was a physical therapist she was aware enough to tuck her head in and luckily fall flat on her back, suffering only multiple muscle tears, no concussion or broken bones... she has since recovered! On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Viv Lyon wrote: > n Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Melissa Higuchi wrote: > > > Ok I can't find the original post that I was responding to but it makes lots > > of sense to me to that DC would have so many fatalities. > > My friend Laura was killed by a car while riding her bike in DC. The > person had parked and, failing to check for bikes, flung their car door > open in her path. It knocked her into traffic. She died on the way to the > hospital. I myself have nearly been hit like this a dozen times. Whenever > I pass parked cars, I try to check to see if there's anyone inside. It's > not always possible to tell, and certainly not possible to check every > car. Drivers (and passengers) need to get into the habit of checking for > bikes... it would be extremely unpleasant to be the cause of someone > else's early demise. > > Vivien > "THE CATS ARE HUNGRY...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Alone, only a harmless pet... One thousand strong, They become a man-eating machine!" - -ad for THE NIGHT OF A THOUSAND CATS, 1972. Stephen Mahoney Multnomah County Library at Rockwood branch clerk stephenm@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us 503-988-5396 fax 503-988-5178 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: Ghost Threads 4 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Spring Cherry wrote: > Digests 149-159 > > Just want to say I like all the pro car-pool, bike, mass transit posts. And > the general idea that we must stop destroying the very grounds of our > existance if we want to keep existing. Well, the point is we're going to have to move to these methods of transportation sooner or later. Right now, the world's oil resources will last us (at current usage, I believe) about 50 years, give or take a decade or so. That's not long. And when we get to the end of it, if we have not made preparations, it's going to be very painful indeed. The website I mentioned earlier in the day (www.living-room.org) has a story on it, titled The Last Drive. In many ways, I feel it sums up the discussion we've been having regarding cars, public transport, and human behavior. I highly recommend that anyone involved in or interested by that discussion read this story. It's a little cheesy in its framing device, but I think it makes some interesting prognostications. > As for a livable urban-village enviroment Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern > Language" is an excellent guide to what works for many human beings. He > looks at what works in indigenous cultures to make humans comfortable, and > extrapolates from there. Yes, I'm reading it right now. Well, not _right_ now. But it's at home, and I am reading it. There. I think it's too general, and I'm already damned sick of the word "pattern", but I like the way they delineate the different structures which appeal to the human animal. What I really don't like is that way in which they (when I say they, I refer to the book's several authors) advocate turning all wilderness into "countryside" which is "maintained" by humans. Wilderness doesn't need maintainence. Wilderness should be wild, and left to its own devices. There are places where humans just don't belong. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:24:55 -0400 From: "brian nupp" Subject: Re: let's go ride a bike My girlfriend lives in Chicago 1 block away from the big Puerto Rican Flag on Division Street near Western. That neighborhood is VERY scary. I'm helping her move out of there next weekend for some of the very reasons you mention. Also the ice cream stands on the corners don't really sell ice cream! Ice Cream Nuppy >From: "victorian squid" > > >neighborhood. No offense to any Puerto Rican fegs (???)(as if!), but > >as any woman who walks the streets in New York can attest, they are > >the most likely men to hoot, stare, whistle, or make crude sexual > >remarks as you go by. It's just the way it is. > >Any woman who has ever walked the streets of Chicago can also attest >to the veracity of this observation. > >I think the worst incident was the time some yelling guys in a car turned >around and followed me several blocks. Altho the time this one guy got >tired >of my ignoring him and started getting hostile and "hey, you're not all >that, >bitch" is a real close second. This was a bit scarier than it might >normally be >because it didn't happen on the street, but in the alley behind my >apartment. >To really tie this all together, I'd just ridden home on my bike. > >Susan >lived in two heavily puerto rican neighborhoods, has some tales > > > > >Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail >account at http://www.eudoramail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #160 ********************************