From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #145 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, April 24 2001 Volume 10 : Number 145 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Worst joke of the week [JH3 ] Re: peaceful & violent ["Motherfucking Asshole" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #144 [Traveling Riverside Blues ] Re: Worst joke of the week ["J. Brown" ] A dark night in Ebland...or Eb vs. Rufus, Phase II [Eb ] Bristol Comments ["marcus slade" ] look at the massacres on cable... [grutness@surf4nix.com] clockwork spinster ["Brian Hoare" ] Nottingham Setlist 23/4/2001 [dr john halewood ] Re: Feel free to ignore [scary mary ] Re: What I do when I should be asleep [steve ] Re: I read the news today, oh boy ["noe shalev" ] recent digests ["ross taylor" ] RE: peaceful & violent ["Thomas, Ferris" ] wasting my sunny day ["Natalie Jacobs" ] Re: Worst joke of the week Re: Worst joke of the week [HAL ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:02:34 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: Worst joke of the week >> Worst joke of the week: >> >> "Joey Ramone Passes Away A-Hey A-Hey" > >No - that's the Worst Joke of *last* week... Has anyone come up with "the surviving Beatles should get together with the surviving Ramones to form a supergroup called 'The Bemoans'" yet? If not, y'all can have it, I guess. (Like it'll do you any good!) John H. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:33:28 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: peaceful & violent if by this you mean that in the united states, dissent is met with silence (or perhaps a tear-gassing); while in argentina (for example), it's met with being dropped out of an airplane into the ocean you're quite correct. but the next logical presumption is that the u.s. should have the highest per capita incidence of "radical"s. turns out not to be the case. yes, opec is allowed a few drops. but this goes straight into the pockets of the dictators (who are propped up by u.s.-made weaponry), and *not* the populations. make no mistake, though: the united states calls the shots. remember what happened when iran tried to nationalise its oil, or when iraq invaded kuwait in response to its slant-drilling. here's the thing, though. the reason you need to keep your job is to pay for your damned car! monthly payments, insurance, petrol, licence, maintenance, parking tickets/moving violations, and so on and so forth. it adds up frightfully quickly! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:53:27 -0700 From: Traveling Riverside Blues Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V10 #144 That's interesting - I was curious about that Maxwell's recording myself. Also wondering about that first song, "Dental Origin" (I think), which is not complete - Anyone know what that was? Was that an improv? Is there a complete take of it somewhere? What a great show. What a amazing tour. I think somewhere between the SF show, which I saw, and the recordings on the ftp servers, that tour presented some of the best concerts I've ever heard. From anyone. What total chemistry. Also, it's so funny, over the course of several shows it seems Grant Lee Phillips has an amazing talent for vocal mimicry. It's highly amusing. I've been practicing that "It's Jason Keene, Man Of Action!" announcer's-type voice for days. Mike At 3:01 AM -0400 4/24/01, fegmaniax-digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:25:36 -0400 >From: enzo >Subject: Re: Mr. Kennedy's older than I thought... > >when we last left our heroes, Disinformant exclaimed: > >>Don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I was just surfing through (and >>downloading like a rabid wombat) the UK FTP site posted a few days ago. >>What did I stumbe across but a version Mr. Kennedy from the RH/Grant Lee >>Phillips show at Maxwell's back in October of 2000. [snip] > >yep. the mp3s at unidec came from a soundboard recording. well, except for >the first few songs which were free air recordings since there was some >confusion about whether or not board access was available. > >woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:03:40 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: Worst joke of the week > Billy Idol is not Punk nostalgia. Punk Nostalgia is > the Pistols tour in 97. "Billy Idol" or "Johnny Rotten" or The Buffoon That Was "Sid Vicious". Why is one more "authentic" than another? What's the "Punk" difference? Chart hits + self- destruction = Timeworn Rock Cliche. Besides, it's all in the eye of the beholder, despite what "critics" ordain. I'll wager that tons of young 80's music consumers thought of Idol as being "punk", just like hordes of 60's music consumers thought of "Green Tambourine" by the Lemon Pipers as "psychedelic". If the Sacred Pistols would've carried on making more LP's, they may have eventually written an "Eyes Without A Face" or something else as hideously chart-ready (Sigue Sigue Sputnik, anyone?) C'mon, it's showbiz and they were showbiz kids, all of 'em. Besides, the main (and cosmically humorous, to me) point was that aging, accompanied by a predictable nostalgia for The Music We Loved In Our Youth, happens to the "best" of us. Next: Was Pearl Jam more "grunge" than Soundgarden? /hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:24:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Worst joke of the week On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, HAL wrote: > > Billy Idol is not Punk nostalgia. Punk Nostalgia is > > the Pistols tour in 97. > > "Billy Idol" or "Johnny Rotten" or The Buffoon That Was "Sid Vicious". > Why is one more "authentic" than another? What's the "Punk" difference? > Chart hits + self- destruction = Timeworn Rock Cliche. Besides, it's > all in the eye of the beholder, despite what "critics" ordain. I'll > wager that tons of young 80's music consumers thought of Idol as being > "punk", just like hordes of 60's music consumers thought of "Green > Tambourine" by the Lemon Pipers as "psychedelic". If the Sacred Pistols > would've carried on making more LP's, they may have eventually written > an "Eyes Without A Face" or something else as hideously chart-ready > (Sigue Sigue Sputnik, anyone?) C'mon, it's showbiz and they were showbiz > kids, all of 'em. Besides, the main (and cosmically humorous, to me) > point was that aging, accompanied by a predictable nostalgia for The > Music We Loved In Our Youth, happens to the "best" of us. Hey thanks for taking the main point out of my post in your quote! Jesus hal, you love to bitch! Come on admit that your recent jag against old punks stems from from that cross post from alt.music.ramones in which your beloved Dead were slagged. im just saying if you are gonna continue slagging on old punks (which is your perogative) than at least slag a real old punk to slag rather than old 80's trash. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Put your faith in death because it's free" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:37:44 -0700 From: Eb Subject: A dark night in Ebland...or Eb vs. Rufus, Phase II Any veteran of this list probably knows that besides Mule Variations and possibly Apple Venus Vol. 1, I've been anticipating the upcoming Rufus Wainwright album more than any other release of recent years. Well, I received an advance copy of Poses today, and played it tonight. Verdict: It's...not that great. :( Now, these comments are obviously based on one listen, and I reserve the right to warm up to it -- after all, I wasn't even 100% sure I'd *keep* the debut album, the first time I heard it. However...I'm just not crazy about these songs. I can't figure out what he's after, here. It's like he's embarrassed by the debut now, and thinks it was far too frilly and elaborate. These songs seem uncomfortably simple, in comparison. Whereas with the first album, it took me three listens to feel like I was anywhere *near* processing those unusual melodies and chords (I still have barely even *begun* to work through them on my own keyboard), I feel like I grasped most of this album, right away. I have a feeling he wrote this album mainly on guitar -- it's very much based in traditional chord progressions, rather than rippling dancehall piano and all that. The piano-playing rarely jumps out and grabs you -- mostly, he's just hitting serviceable rhythm chords. You won't think of Randy Newman and Van Dyke Parks much, with *this* disc. He also has become far too infatuated with sustained vocal notes. The melodies are so drawn out...all these lonnnnnng vowels and notes sustained across measures, over and over again (worst case: "Shadows"). The new songs sound more like a showcase of his lovely voice than his lovely *melodies*. I think my favorite two tracks will probably be "Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk" and "California," and those are the two songs which I had already heard on previous DreamWorks promotional samplers. Damn, damn, damn. Also...when the first album came out, there was all this publicity about him having recorded a remarkable *58* songs in preparation. So three years later, the second album comes out with only 13 tracks, and one's a cover of his father's tune and another is a needless second mix of "Cigarettes..."? Color me dejected. Ebscale rating: 13/20, maybe 14/20 if it grows on me. First album: 16/20. I hope it gets better. I really do. Track listing, for those interested: 1. Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk 2. Greek Song 3. Poses 4. Shadows 5. California 6. The Tower of Learning 7. Grey Gardens (this song knocked me out at the infamous "oppressive-udder show"...on disc, not so much) 8. Rebel Prince 9. The Consort 10. One Man Guy 11. Evil Angel 12. In a Graveyard 13. Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk (Reprise) [this version's rhythm tracks have a bit more of an electronic, beaty feel...it's also about 30 seconds shorter] I believe I heard almost all of these songs at Largo, last year (I'm not quite sure about #4, #6, #8 and #12). Somehow they seemed to have more spark, onstage. Hrm. Eb PS I'm considering starting a betting pool to guess how many months Hal will be fixated on his new "hippie/punk nostalgia" riff...if interested, just email me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:43:39 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: Robyn played baritone? Ben: >http://www.underwatermoonlight.com/large_images/africa.html Looks like a Danelectro bass to me... possibly used for Insanely Jealous (I reckon the album version has 2 bass)... any ideas? Cheers Matt "still 2 days till Thursday" Sewell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:21:35 From: "marcus slade" Subject: Bristol Comments >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:47:29 +0100 (BST) >From: Michael R Godwin >Subject: Re: Bristol > > > I think I saw Mike G in the distance but never got to actually greet >him. > >That was me - you should have demanded a pint! I was right next to Jim and >Tony up the front. [Er ... Tony, um ... did that recording come out?] I was done the front too. Just left of centre wearing the black Star Wars t-shirt. If there is a recording of this show I'd love a copy. Also if anyone taped Robyn's last show at the fleece on Jan 31st last year I'd love a copy of that too. Contact me off list if you have either. No one else has mentioned this, but there were two of Robyn's cones for sale at the beginning of the night. I couldn't afford the #10 asking price and have been regretting it ever since. Someone must have bought them as they weren't there after the show. > >Bristol Set > >I don't think anyone has posted a full setlist from Bristol, so here's >what I remember, not in order. A lot of new numbers, but regrettably no >Astonomy Domine. Maybe I'll have to go to Oxford after all! I got a look at one of the setlists off the stage after the show and they were due to play Astonomy Domine but obviously changed their minds. We weren't due to get R&R Toilet either. I'm guessing a lot of the changes were due to the excess of broken strings. Marcus PS Robyn also told a great story about slicing tomatos with a sharpened length of tram rail! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:21:55 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com Subject: look at the massacres on cable... >>>Whereas one of the most important >>>reasons the Columbine killers did what they did was just that - >>>to become famous. And in that respect, they succeeded. 'scuse me from putting in a slightly dissing voice here, but the extent to which they succeeded is probably measurable by the extent to which people on mailing lists discuss them rather than discussing the fact that sickfuck kids can take guns to school and shoot up their classmates. Discussing the killers is just adding to their exposure. Ignore them. Refuse to discuss them. If you must talk about anything, discuss how society got to the state where it was ever allowed to happen in the first place. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:35:30 -0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: clockwork spinster It is my irrational belief that the clockwork spinster mutated into the female character in strawberry mind. Brian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:40:35 +0100 From: dr john halewood Subject: Nottingham Setlist 23/4/2001 You'll have to go sideways (with Sonic Boom) Queen of eyes Human music (dedicated to Peter Buck) Old Pervert ("skin it back") Mind is connected Insanely Jealous Kingdom of Love I Wanna Destroy You ("a folk song, like something Richard Thompson would do") Leppo & the Jooves Pulse of my Heart Only the Stones Remain Sudden Town Underwater Moonlight (with Sonic Boom) Encore 1: Train round the Bend Rock'n'Roll Toilet Mr Kennedy Encore 2: Sleeping with your Devil Mask The Face of Death (for Arthur: "he is gone but he shall return!" - see Cambridge) Excellent gig. The place (part of the ground floor of Rock City) was small, dark and packed. Sonic Boom's synth twiddles worked really well, particularly on the extended middle section of UM, which featured a long rant about rodents, which seemed to be the theme of the night. Highlights for me included the extended jamming at the end of Mr Kennedy, UM and Kingdom of Love, where Matthew's bass sound was quite amazing. john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:28:35 -0400 From: scary mary Subject: Re: Feel free to ignore According to an article in the April 23 New York Times: The name of the venture - which he says is an place holder while his company is in ``stealth'' mode - is an allusion to Hank Rearden, the protagonist in the 1957 Ayn Rand novel ``Atlas Shrugged.'' Rearden was an embattled industry executive, trying to defend his steel empire from government taxes and regulation. (Although Mr. Perlman said he disagreed with some of the author's philosophy of corporate supremacy, he said he was taken with the Rearden character.) Sounds like you're doing some intriguing work Tom. Can I come work for your company? mary n.p. Sigur Ros >On Monday, April 23, 2001, at 12:44 PM, Tom Clark wrote: > >>Assorted feg-bretheren have expressed an interest in my life post-Apple. > >What I want to know is how "Rearden Steel Technologies" = hardware and >software products for the consumer marketplace. Is this some obscure >reference? > >Does sound better than Genuity - > > >Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:57:54 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: What I do when I should be asleep On Tuesday, April 24, 2001, at 01:59 AM, JH3 wrote: > And what exactly are people supposed to "do" to prevent recurrences? > Spy on their neighbors like it's some sort of George Orwell novel? Offer > to teach parents how to "raise their children correctly"? Throw people > in prison for "making threats" when 99.99% of them are just blowing > off steam? Boycott "violent" movies and video games? John, please be sure that your comments do not reach the current AG. - - Steve __________ Is this thing on? Sent via OS X Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:34:51 -0000 From: "noe shalev" Subject: Re: I read the news today, oh boy > Look, I'm all for being against genocide, but can we skip the > history-related plattitudes about it? Adolf Hitler had known about ethnic > cleansing, genocide, and pogroms. It's not like he thought the whole > "kill-the-Jews" thing was so novel it just _had_ to be tried once. To a certain extent u r probably right. but (there always a but isn't it?) Things that you see today from distance people didn't see there. I know this is not a popular example especialy not among jews, but as an Israeli Jew I believe we here in Israel commit serious war and human rights denial crimes against the palestinians. Some of them we'll be tried if not legaly, at least historically, yet among the public most Israelis are deeply convinced that Israel is being persecuted, and that none of it's deeds is in anyway un legal or even not moral. you need hustoric and geographic distance somtimes to judge objectivly a situation. lots of germans didn't and couldn't have this prespective during WW2. I just saw a film edited from the Aichman trial that was held in Israel in the early 60's. Aichman was the only person ever to be excuted in Israel. he new what jenocide was, he even agreed that the nazi deeds were indeed crime, but he realy belived he was inocent. the impression he gave me wasn't of a man who's sickness and cruelty make him smile secreatly and enjoy evil. he believed he was a good idealistic person who fulfilled his duty to his nation. this sort of things could happan again - and that's why remembering it and studying it , could diminish the risk of this hapaning again. and if you read all the way down here - wow I appreiciate it. I wouldn't have the patince :-) all the best (and so is music) NOE ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:40:02 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: recent digests My .02 even later-- If "bzzub bzzub" isn't a Beefheart echo, I don't know what is. Abba Zabba! "Kenneth Johnson" -- >There is a purveying sense of the exploitive in the song, diamonds from >Africa going to old (hair that falls out)rich (tennis is traditionally a >sport of the wealthy or royalty) people in Florida delivered by butlers on a >tray. as well as the origins of R&R being the African slaves. I take that as a pretty good summation of the song, & it takes most of the wind out of an argument I guess I'll sort of make anyway. Which is that I agree w/ the feeling of wanting to prove he does make sense to people who say he's impenetrable nonsense, but sometimes I also want to take up arms for impenetrable nonsense. I really admire songs like "The End of the World As We Know It" or "Jewels for Sophia." Strings of disconnected stuff, yes, but those strings can still stir me up. I like surrealism that has a human side & lets you in, lets you find emotion (death or sex in recent mails), but it's also fun to push the fragmentation, see how finely you can chop things up and still recognize the world in them. That's what I like about Stipe, or in a different way, "l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e poets" like Lynn Hejinian or Clark Coolidge. I don't think Robyn does this often, but there is "Jewels"... A few more things on the interpretation side--the Horn is the cape at the bottom of Africa, right? ...the Greeks thought false dreams came thru a gate of ivory and true dreams came thru a gate of horn... Africa looks like a side view of a skull, Florida looks rather phallic on the *underside* of America ... what're they doing w/ each other? ============================ violence and non-- Christopher Gross-- >they will no doubt cherish memories of the Battle of >Quebec in twenty years when they're all stockbrokers and lawyers and >college professors. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" is an important quote for me, I just wish I didn't see Daltry's poofy blond hair and a fringy jacket every time I think it. I'm too cynical, too close to thinking it's all a mad parade, I should just stay out of this. But I think saying violence, particularly this kind, is "self-defeating" is more than a notion. I agree w/ what is being protested, my issues are with the methods, or what will surely be perceived as the methods. Isn't there some way for the nonviolent part of the movement to visibly distance itself from the violent sub- group, even if this movement wants to have very distributed, low-visibility leadership? The main, clear progress I've seen in my lifetime has been the Civil Rights movement. My take on M. L. King is that in addition to staying true to his high moral ground and having a shitload of courage, he was also an eminently practical man. There's a lot about Malcom X that really appeals to my white ass--justified rage has more poetry than Realpolitik does. But I think it was King who, as much as humanly possible, got the job done. Ross Taylor "If a falling leaf won't help me ..." Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:13:31 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: peaceful & violent - -----Original Message----- From: Capuchin Public transportation and human powered transportation are the way to go. Public transportation divides the energy of moving the vehicle by the number of passengers it moves and protects. Human powered transportation is inherently limited in energy consumption. - -----Original Message----- I can't argue with the mathematics but the major problem: this country's too large. Public transport won't work. Sorry. Not on a massive scale. I've been to countries with decent public transport (European, with the UK comes to mind.) While the service sometimes (all right, a good amount of the time) may seem like crap (delays, cancellations, etc) it's really not that bad. The fact that those countries are densly populated (and roughly the size of New England) has almost everything to do with it. Brit Rail used to be entirely government run. When Branson bought a chunk of it he inherited a broken-down and ill-maintained system. Only in the past, what, year and a half or so have the Virgin lines gotten up to speed. Is he turning a profit? I have no idea. Should public transportion be something that's run on a for-profit basis? It's the only way to get at least a chance at decent service. Should the government absorb all the costs to keep it cheap? In a small country it's a possibility. In one the size of the US, no. I live in western CT. I work in central CT. Housing costs are too expensive in the center of the state. Yes, there are areas where I could afford a place but, frankly, they're crap. Is that snobbery? Perhaps. If I can afford to live in a decent area with low/no crime and a good standard of living why the Hell wouldn't I? I'm just not that altruistic. (*Definition: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species*) If I could work from home, believe me, I would. If I could afford a place near work and save myself a seventy minute round trip commute every day, I would. Fact is: I've got a decent job and a decent rent. Am I going to ditch a programming gig to bag groceries just to save a commute? Think about it for a second. You can't be serious. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:55:07 -0700 From: "Natalie Jacobs" Subject: wasting my sunny day Half-assed Detroit headline-o-rama: >The Observer & Eccentric/ THURSDAY, March 29, 2001 >Together again. Soft Boys reunite, ready to rock Boy, I really miss Orbit. Any Detroiters out there remember Orbit? For Portlanders - imagine if the Portland Mercury was cool and funny, and didn't have Dan Savage. Every week, they featured a different bizarre, outsized monument (they would've loved the giant revolving milk carton on NE 21st). They also ran Dr. Science's column! >Public transportation and human powered transportation are the way to >go. May I just write a brief love letter to the 17 bus? Oh 17 bus, how I love thee, oh thou of colorful seats, where once I saw Sean Croghan (local rock star guy, formerly of Crackerbash), wearing a smart red and black sweater. There is always a seat available on the 17 bus, and its route through the Pearl District is scenic in a seedy sort of way. It goes to Sauvie Island, which is a cool name. Oh 17, how I love thee. Wish I could say the same about the 12... >(Btw, what's "superstitious" about it? Is there something mystical or >supernatural about simple cause and effect? Names always convey power. Why do you think Mr. YHWH doesn't like having his name thrown around? I've noticed that when I get really pissed at someone, I don't like to say their name. (I've been referring to my boss as "Mrs. Thatcher" for a few weeks now.) Ursula Le Guin played effectively on this whole idea in the Earthsea trilogy, where knowledge of a person's true name gives you power over them. I suspect that people feel that by simply uttering the syllables of M. Chapman's name, they are magically giving him power. >And jeez, next you'll be telling us the Beatles were better than >*Robyn >Hitchcock*! AS IF! Oh no, I would never say that! YHWH forbid!! >Ignoring the killers (and note that I'm not suggesting we *ignore* >them, >merely refrain from psychoanalyzing them endlessly in the media) That sounds a lot more sensible than forgetting they ever existed. >Try looking at it from the opposite perspective. Why would you even >*want* to know intimate details about the perpetrators of a mass >murder? Just so you can "understand" their "motives"? Well, call me a sicko, but I'm kind of interested in the motives. In fact, I'm always slightly disappointed when these people blow themselves away at the end of their rampage, because I want to know why they did it. But on the other hand, I'm also hoping to attend a cadaver dissection in the anatomy class downstairs... >And what exactly are people supposed to "do" to prevent recurrences? I think your heroes from Swindon had a few ideas... :P n. p.s. Speaking of the Wondrous Partridge, last night - three years after receiving it at the Quail fest - I FINALLY put Steve Schiavo's XTC sticker on my car. It looks dandy. Thank you again, Steve. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:07:45 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: Worst joke of the week Re: Worst joke of the week > Come on admit that your recent jag against > old punks stems from from that cross post from alt.music.ramones in which > your beloved Dead were slagged. My "beloved Dead"? You've been one of "Eb's Fgz" wa-a-a-a-y too long. I could've sworn that I said that hippie nostalgia is almost as pathetic as punk nostalgia. Clear? And, like a lover scorned, Eb has to chime in: > I'm considering starting a betting pool to guess how many months Hal > will be fixated on his new "hippie/punk nostalgia" riff...if interested, > just email me. Well, as admittedly fascinating as it is watching Punks Growing Old, this thread's duration *certainly* won't be as ongoing as your fey Rupert Wainwright harangues. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:17:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: RE: peaceful & violent On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Thomas, Ferris wrote: > I can't argue with the mathematics but the major problem: this country's too > large. Public transport won't work. Sorry. Not on a massive scale. Well, this country's too big for a lot of things. And frankly, I'm beginning to think it should be broken up. Secession! Create Cascadia! I've > been to countries with decent public transport (European, with the UK comes > to mind.) While the service sometimes (all right, a good amount of the > time) may seem like crap (delays, cancellations, etc) it's really not that > bad. The fact that those countries are densly populated (and roughly the > size of New England) has almost everything to do with it. Ever read Ecotopia? We should be constructing necklaces of cities connected by high-speed rail, leaving large swathes of the countryside alone entirely. > Am I going to ditch a programming gig to bag groceries just to save a > commute? If the commute started to bother you enough, you would. I remember, as a kid, I would look out from my parents' car at all the other cars on the road, see the clouds of exhaust billowing up to the sky. I would then think about how large the world is, and try to imagine how many other cars there were, doing just the same thing at that very moment. It would really bother me ("how can the sky accept all this smelly crap?" my little child-mind fretted), but then I would realize, with great relief, that if it were really any kind of threat, then we wouldn't be doing it. Right? Mommy and Daddy and the grown-ups of the world wouldn't do something so stupid, right? Ah, the lost innocence of youth. Vivien ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #145 ********************************