From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #143 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, April 23 2001 Volume 10 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ### WANT TO BE HUNG LIKE A HORSE?? CLICK HERE!!7332 [Tom Clark ] Re: In Support of "My Mind is Connected" (Too!) ["Kenneth Johnson" ] peaceful & violent [Ken Ostrander ] Quaindy [Eb ] Re: peaceful & violent [Viv Lyon ] spielbergo [Bayard Catron ] RE: peaceful & violent ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Re: Interview stuff... ["brian nupp" ] Re: ### WANT TO BE HUNG LIKE A HORSE?? CLICK HERE!!7332 ["Motherfucking A] Re: John Quaindy ["Motherfucking Asshole" ] Re: peaceful & violent ["Motherfucking Asshole" ] RE: peaceful & violent ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Media Madness! ["JH3" ] Re: I read the news today, oh boy [Terrence Marks ] Re: Media Madness! [Eb ] peaceful demonstrators & violent idiots [Christopher Gross ] Re: peaceful & violent ["Motherfucking Asshole" ] more of my day wasted... ["brian nupp" ] Re: peaceful demonstrators & violent idiots [Capuchin Subject: Re: ### WANT TO BE HUNG LIKE A HORSE?? CLICK HERE!!7332 on 4/23/01 1:54 AM, Motherfucking Asshole at asshole@feedthefish.org wrote: > Do any man know that if you had a penis say, 11" or bigger it goes the > same distance as a penis 8"? Depends on where your putting it. >So if you have one with good length, why > change it? you'll only be hurting yourself. Ask the recipient who's the one getting hurt! Obviously not speaking from experience, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:44:10 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Feel free to ignore Assorted feg-bretheren have expressed an interest in my life post-Apple. Here's our first press release: - -t "Insert non sequitur here" c ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:44:25 -0700 From: "Kenneth Johnson" Subject: Re: In Support of "My Mind is Connected" (Too!) >well as the correct spelling of bzp! > my vote is for zzub zzub as in Buzz backwards. there is definitely a connection between the shifting of the contenental plates and the skull's plates. It would be interesting to see a picture of a skull and see if the place where dreams derive resembles the place where Florida and Africa once kissed. Perhaps the plate of the earth or skull number 11? Anyone know off the top of head? (ooo what a pun!) Isn't it so that each person's skull is unique in bone structure? The poisonous plant is the pod of rock and roll that flowers in your mind. Casting R&R as a drug or poison willingly ingested to ease the pain. (Rock and Roll suicide? anyone?) Robyn's dreams are expressed through his songs (I cite his dreaming in public quote) Could there also be a subliminal at work here? There is a purveying sense of the exploitive in the song, diamonds from Africa going to old (hair that falls out)rich (tennis is traditionally a sport of the wealthy or royalty) people in Florida delivered by butlers on a tray. as well as the origins of R&R being the African slaves. .02 little late than never Kenneth busy busy weekend zzub zzub our opening was very successful, but I am very tired and sore. Tonight I hold auditions for a show I am directing over the summer and then celebrating a friend's birthday with a rousing game of I hate my liver. No rest for the wicked.... >My mind is connected to your dreams >Bzp, bzp, bzp, bzp, bzpapa >Your dreams are connected to the underside >Where the skull of Africa >Meets the Horn of Florida >And petals (?) ring in orbit >Merry day (?), > >Give me a part of rock n roll > >The butler emerges from the hole >Bzp, bzp, bzp, bzp, bzpapa >The butler emerges from the underside >With a tray of diamonds >For (From?) the Horn of Florida >And I love your tennis court >And the hair that falls on it >Is yours, > >Give me a part of rock n roll >Give me a part of rock n roll > >And I want you >To remember everything >Everything, everything > >My mind is connected to your dreams >Bzp, bzp, bzp, bzp, bzpapa >Your dreams are connected to the underside >And your skull is (?) memory >Its eleven carriages >And your skin was beautiful >And the face that formed on it >Was yours > >Give me a part of rock n roll >Give me a part of rock n roll > >And its only a poisonous plant >And its calling you names >Yeah, its only a poisonous plant >And its calling your name >Yeah, its only a poisonous plant >And its calling your name. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:56:43 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: ### WANT TO BE HUNG LIKE A HORSE?? CLICK HERE!!7332 At 10:38 AM 4/23/01 -0700, Tom Clark wrote: > > Do any man know that if you had a penis say, 11" or bigger it goes the > > same distance as a penis 8"? > >Depends on where your putting it. If you were to drop them off the Empire State Building, for example, they would fall at the exact same rate too. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence Marks Subject: Re: Interview stuff... On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Brian nupped: > record will be quite exotic, I expect." He riffles through a tatty notebook > that lists some of his new songs. "There'll be a song about the Higsons -- > um, 'Living In A Severed Head', 'Egyptian Cream', 'Sleeping Knights Of > Jesus', 'The Clockwork Spinster', 'Messages Of Dark' -- that one's about > being in love with a spider." Sounds far out, Robyn. > > I wonder what happened to "Living in a Severed Head" (possibly "The > Abandoned Brain") and "The Clockwork Spinster." "The Clockwork Spinster" sounds a bit like it might be "Point it at Gran". Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com The Nice (an organization for comic strips) http://nice.purrsia.com normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:58:44 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: peaceful & violent i got back from quebec city last night after an inspiring weekend of demonstration in opposition to the ft double a. i am not suprised to see that most mainstream coverage has painted the entire proceedings with the brush of violence. there were more than fourty thousand people (i have seen estimates range from twenty [which is bullshit] to sixty) in the streets. the vast majority of them were marching peacefully in the city below the old fortifications. simultaneously, up on the cliff by the security perimeter, others taunted the police and military guarding the fence. of the tens of thousands of people that were there, a select group of a few hundred were actually trying to pull down the fence and throwing various objects over the fence. most often, objects thrown were tear gas canisters that were perpetually shot into the crowds. some people seem to think that the peaceful protesters share the blame for the violence. this is altogether misguided. if that were the case, then everyone who didn't protest shares the blame for the violence inherent in the system. personally, i support a diversity of tactics, though i choose not to engage in any direct action apart from taking a piece of a torn down fence. if there were no violence (such as it was, no one was killed) then there would be no coverage. simple fact. of course, most coverage attempts to spin doctor the proceedings; but at least there's something. the protesters are the ones who are depicted as violent; not the police. i have as hard a time choking that down as i did the tear gas. i took a thursday and friday off from work to go up to canada and am trying to pour over the seven hundred plus emails in my inbox; so i'll have to provide more details later. great thread on the evils of free trade by the way. ken "you wouldn't know karl marx from a candy apple" the kenster np nothing's shocking jane's addiction (which features a cowhide pattern on the back cover) http://www.indymedia.org/ftaa/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:14:37 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Quaindy >>> 1941, Empire of the Sun, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan. >> >> and Raiders Of The Lost Ark makes five. > >if you're going to count it (while there are Nazi's, it's not really a >WWII movie), then IJ& The Last Crusade makes it six.... I seem to have missed the start of this thread, but if you're talking about Spielberg's endless parade of WWII movies, "Always" counts too, right? (I haven't seen it.) >>Bob (a lurker for six months, spurred to post, I guess, by kind >Fegs who've made me some CDRs recently) > >Hi Bob! It's about TIME someone got the game underway.... Eb np: The Band/Music From Big Pink (reissue w/bonus tracks) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: peaceful & violent On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Ken Ostrander wrote: > i got back from quebec city last night after an inspiring weekend of > demonstration in opposition to the ft double a. I've been reading the IMC's coverage of the events in Quebec, and it seems pretty clear that Bush and Chretien just pushed on through, basically signed the thing without even the appearance of a genuine discussion, since many of the delegates didn't even make it to the summit. Why do they even bother to put on the dog-and-pony show, if the thing was going to be signed willy or nilly? Why didn't Bush just issue a proclamation? It would have been a lot easier, and thousands of protestors could have spent their time on something more worthwhile, like plotting the total overthrow of their respective and so-called "democracies." Vivien ps- props to Ken for actually making the trip. We attended the solidarity protest here and trotted out our old Corporate Flag, she's ever so photogenic: http://portland.indymedia.org/local/images/ftaa/corporateflag.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bayard Catron Subject: spielbergo remember, i said at LEAST three! after a bit of looking, there's also this one: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0054670 ...which he made at age 14. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:32:46 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: peaceful & violent I don't know. I've never gotten wound up enough over anything to attend an actual protest. I've written letters, made phone calls, shouted epithets, but never protested. I fully support people's rights to gather peacefully and speak their minds. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press: all for it. More so than what we've got now with media bias (and yes, it exists.) What I've got issue with is those who think it's not only necessary but their right to go beyond that. "If there were no violence (such as it was, no one was killed) then there would be no coverage. simple fact." Things like destroying or vandalizing property, burning cars, breaking shop windows and looting (thinking of the WTO demonstrations in Seattle and more recently of Cincinnati) don't cut it. Blocking abortion clinics and intimidating people going in or out doesn't cut it. Violence, the destruction of property and endangerment of lives don't equal a protest. Insurrection, maybe, but not protest. If the behavior is geared towards landing coverage then it may very well work. When the same people are locked up, fined, or discover a rubber bullet lodged in their ass they shouldn't complain, either. Sorry. I believe in protests. I believe in speaking your mind (doing so now...) and if security forces, be they police, military, or private, open fire on peaceful protest then that's one thing. However, learn a lesson the Palestinians can't seem to get through their heads: if you throw rocks at a cop-slash-soldier don't cry foul when bullets rain down on you. Free trade? C'mon, people...how bad could it be? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:35:29 -0400 From: "brian nupp" Subject: Re: Interview stuff... >>"The Clockwork Spinster" sounds a bit like it might be "Point it at Gran". > >Terrence Marks > How so? It sounds more to be like "I got a message for you." But both were recorded about 3 years after this quote from 1982. Brian Nupp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:16:19 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: ### WANT TO BE HUNG LIKE A HORSE?? CLICK HERE!!7332 <>So if you have one with good length, why > change it? you'll only be hurting yourself. Ask the recipient who's the one getting hurt!> well, i thought the really funny thing about this part was that it was posted to the coen bros. newsgroup, and the last sentence is part of a line from Raising Arizona . ("You're only hurting yourself with this rambunctious behaviour.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:14:49 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: John Quaindy it's not just that there're nazis. it's that they're running around causing havoc, collecting relics, burning down pubs, flexing their muscles, worrying about the jewish nature of rituals, et cetera. moreover, when they're killed by the bushel-full (often in quite greusome manner), it's wonderful to be alive and sitting in the cinema. saw Last Crusade on the day it opened, and once again a week later; and haven't seen it since. can't remember much about it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:22:29 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: peaceful & violent while i do consider myself a pacifist, two points. 1. it's easy to consider oneself a pacifist when one is a rich, white, american male. i find it extremely difficult to judge those that, after exhausting all other options (the zapatistas, the palestinians), resort to violence. 2. destruction of property is not violence. ESPECIALLY in the case of plowshares-type actions. but, really, in more general cases such as trashing a mcdonald's (or what have you). it's the american military that allows the mcdonald's of the world to carry out their rapacious programmes in the first place. so trashing a mcdonald's is really just an indirect form of a plowshares action. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:44:38 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: peaceful & violent - -----Original Message----- From: Motherfucking Asshole [mailto:asshole@feedthefish.org] > destruction of property is not violence You can't justify violence against people directly or indirectly, here. Should someone flip my fine piece of German engineering on it's roof and set it ablaze, I'm thinking it's violence (and that happened to my ex-wife when we were on vacation, believe it or not...) Does the fact that you're not physically hurting me justify the action? Chucking a brick through a coroporate office window, even if the shards of glass don't hurt anyone, is right? >it's the american military that allows >the mcdonald's of the world to carry out >their rapacious programmes in the first >place. Rapacious programmes? (Or pograms?) Now you've got me interested. Please enlighten me... (I'm not defending the McDonald's corporation here--but now I'm danged curious.) ______________________________________ Ferris Scott Thomas programmer McGraw-Hill Education 860.409.2612 ferris_thomas@mcgraw-hill.com (email) Friday or Saturday, what does that mean? Short space of time needs a heavy scene Monday is coming like a jail on wheels -The Clash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:04:13 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Media Madness! I guess this originally came from dmw: >>no shingle, sherlock. i think the rule ought to apply that i first heard >>used for the little worm who ended the life of John Lennon -- don't give >>them the notoriety, don't mythologize them, get their names wrong, forget >>the pertinent details, give them no place in history as people -- just as >>symptoms of a sickness. And this, from J. Brown: >What up is with this attitude? It seems rather petty and perverse. I >mean, what is this the third grade? You are putting way to much stock >in this. Do you not say the names of Charles Guiteau, Leon Czolgosz, >Gavrilo Princip, James Earl Ray, or even Guy Fawkes? And from Natalie J.: >Uh, sorry, it's too late for that. They're in the history books, and not >saying their names is not going to erase their notoriety or make people >forget what they did. I don't want to seem like I'm scolding anyone (though that's probably unavoidable), but there are several problems with these last two sentiments. The biggest is that none of the people being mentioned (and why not John Wilkes Booth? Or Brutus? Or even that gal who married Attila the Hun?) did what they did in order to get media attention. Whereas one of the most important reasons the Columbine killers did what they did was just that - to become famous. And in that respect, they succeeded. The lesson here is that if you want to become famous by killing innocent people, you will succeed! Cool, huh! Guiteau, Czolgosz, Booth, and the rest weren't so concerned about the network news, because there were no networks at the time. Their victims weren't civilians, and most of them didn't do what they did *just* to become famous. If they had, then I'd say by all means let's not mention their names. It's simple self-preservation, folks! You might still not agree, though. So if not, then at the risk of being nasty, morbid, etc., just remember the next time some total loser fires a few rounds into *your* chest just for the sake of having their own personal 15 minutes on TV, that to begrudge them their new-found fame and notoriety - bought at the expense of your life, of course - would be "petty and perverse." Okey-dokey? >...At the risk of invoking Godwin's law - if we all >decided not to say the name of that German leader who murdered >10 million people, would that somehow erase him from our minds - >including the minds of those who survived? >The Jews say, "Never forget." By forgetting these crimes, and >the sick people who committed them, we run the risk of repeating >them. This is even worse! You just can't equate what Hitler (or Stalin/ Pol Pot/Suharto/Young Turks, etc.) did with what the Columbine killers (and their ilk) are doing. There HAS to be a recognized, qualitative difference between the systematic killing of millions by the state, and sporadic acts of meaningless, random violence by ordinary asshole KIDS who just want some attention. That seems totally obvious to me. Ignoring the latter group does NOT mean "forgetting" the former group or anything they did; it's two completely different things! The United States is a totally media-dominated society, folks, like it or not. The old adage about "he who forgets history is doomed to repeat it" no longer applies. It's more like "he who remembers history is likely to try copying it just to improve their Q-rating." And what's even sadder is that there are lots of other Pol Pots and Milosevics out there (in Rwanda and Sierra Leone, for example) who never get mentioned in the media at all, either because the news anchors don't think we care about "those people" and they can't even pronounce their names, or because the goddamn murdering KIDS in our backyards are getting all the media attention instead. I'm sorry if that offends any of you. (Just don't shoot me, OK?) John "B.A. in History, 1983" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:22:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence Marks Subject: Re: I read the news today, oh boy On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:01:58 Natalie jacobsed >The Jews say, "Never forget." By forgetting these crimes, and the sick >people who committed them, we run the risk of repeating them. Look, I'm all for being against genocide, but can we skip the history-related plattitudes about it? Adolf Hitler had known about ethnic cleansing, genocide, and pogroms. It's not like he thought the whole "kill-the-Jews" thing was so novel it just _had_ to be tried once. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com The Nice (an organization for comic strips) http://nice.purrsia.com normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:26:08 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Media Madness! >The biggest is that none of the people >being mentioned (and why not John Wilkes Booth? Or Brutus? Or >even that gal who married Attila the Hun?) did what they did in >order to get media attention. >Guiteau, Czolgosz, Booth, and the rest weren't so concerned >about the network news, because there were no networks at the >time. Hey, watch what you say about Booth...I'm distantly related to him, you know. ;) >it's easy to consider oneself a pacifist when one is a rich, white, >american male. And easy to consider oneself a radical, too. Eb PS My own weenie filter prevents me from posting my playlist, but if anyone's curious what I played on my rare "alumni" radio show on Friday, email and I'll forward the list (two hours, 32 songs). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:37:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: peaceful demonstrators & violent idiots On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Ken Ostrander wrote: > demonstration in opposition to the ft double a. i am not suprised to > see that most mainstream coverage has painted the entire proceedings > with the brush of violence. I haven't seen any TV news recently, but most of the written reports I've read (mostly the Washington Post and various websites) made it clear that only a small minority of the protesters were violent. > if there were no violence (such as it was, no one was killed) then > there would be no coverage. simple fact. I doubt that's true, though of course we'll never know for sure. I think the peaceful demonstrations could have garnered plenty of coverage. And if demos don't get enough attention, there are endless possible forms of non-violent distruptiont that could be tried. There's no need at all for this tacit approval of violence. In fact, it's self-defeating. Violence only causes/justifies more restrictions on all demonstrators. And while violence may put the demonstrations at the top of the newscast, it will also alienate 99% of the people who watch that newscast. If you want to have any influence at all, you shouldn't think like an old-time movie star who says "any publicity is good publicity." The whole point, I believe, is to build public opposition to FTAA; surely anything that alienates the public hurts that goal. On the other hand, I am quite sure that all the rock-throwing testosterone-soaked 21-year-old anarchists in their black bandannas had a great time, and they will no doubt cherish memories of the Battle of Quebec in twenty years when they're all stockbrokers and lawyers and college professors. - --Chris "Karl Marx and the average candy apple provide equally useful models for political action" the Christer np: WASP, "Animal (I Fuck Like a Beast)" ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: In Defence of "Pulse of My Heart" On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Kenneth Johnson wrote: > well I have no property taxes and live within the Mult. Co. I am > experiencing no charge that I know of........ well if you live in some sort of domicile (apartment etc) somebody is paying thoise taxes for you and like its included in your rent. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Put your faith in death because it's free" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Quaindy On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Eb wrote: > >>> 1941, Empire of the Sun, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan. > >> > >> and Raiders Of The Lost Ark makes five. > > > >if you're going to count it (while there are Nazi's, it's not really a > >WWII movie), then IJ& The Last Crusade makes it six.... > > I seem to have missed the start of this thread, but if you're talking about > Spielberg's endless parade of WWII movies, "Always" counts too, right? (I > haven't seen it.) no he while the original is about WWII and the remake is about forest fire fighting pilots in the present day. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Put your faith in death because it's free" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:39:08 -0700 From: "Motherfucking Asshole" Subject: Re: peaceful & violent it makes it not violent. plenty of not violent actions are also not right. that said, while the first instinct may be to identify a qualitative difference between personal possessions and private (or state-held) "property", a second instinct may be to acknowledge that we, as americans -- especially us very privileged americans -- are hardly innocent. why is the gaza stripped the most densely populated region on earth? why is turkey systematically wiping the kurds off the face of the earth? why are thousands of iraqi children a month being killed by sanctions? so americans can drive their motor-cars wherever and whenever they want. okay...it's actually so exxon can make oodles of money stealing oil from the middle east and selling it to americans. but if we all stopped driving (or eating meat, or paying taxes, or sucking electricity from the grid, or shopping at the disney store), they'd be up shit creek. i certainly wouldn't argue that it's wrong (in a moral sense). not sure how strongly i'd *advocate* it, just as a practical matter. not particularly effective. mcd's was just an example. but . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:47:53 -0400 From: "brian nupp" Subject: more of my day wasted... RH 1978: "I started out as a folksinger, playing acoustic guitar. When you're doing solo things like that, you talk to the auidence more, which I miss a bit. I used to paint my face up and go busking. I'd sing any old song that came into my head, things like 'I really like bananas, 'cause they have no bones.' Or, 'The Queen Has A Yellow Dog'." Onstage -- his face gleaming with silver paint like a polished chrome appliance -- Robyn leads the band though twelve songs of laudable intensity, pausing midway only to remove his wide-brimmed hat and veil. Your journalist takes careful notes, scrawling phrases between beer-stains like, "Driving beat...strong lyric phrasing...vocal harmonies are almost parodies of '60s Pop...seemingly-unstructured guitar work...Overall comments: nice effort, bad mix." Did Robyn really used to paint up his face and perform? I haven't heard of this until now. Glamour folk? Nuppy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: peaceful demonstrators & violent idiots On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Christopher Gross wrote: > I think the peaceful demonstrations could have garnered plenty of > coverage. And if demos don't get enough attention, there are endless > possible forms of non-violent distruptiont that could be tried. [...] > The whole point, I believe, is to build public opposition to FTAA; > surely anything that alienates the public hurts that goal. Personally, I demonstrated (as much as it was) in Portland to raise public awareness, but realize that public opposition, even public OUTRAGE doesn't make one lick of difference here. We're talking about an illegal treaty that creates an unelected commission that overrides the sovereignty of entire nations in order to improve commerce for the property owners. It doesn't MATTER if the people of the US of A or any other country are opposed to it. Action in Quebec City should have been to stop the conference by any means necessary. Turns out that the conference didn't really take place. All of the meetings were delayed and nearly all of them were postponed. Many delegates didn't even show up and the treaty was adopted as it was written before the conference by the only first world nations in the Western Hemisphere (and therefore the only ones that matter). At no point will it matter whether or not the people of the United States are "aware of the problems" because they don't have a viable alternative to the raping and pillaging done by the multinational corporations. You can say "Oh, there are alternatives. You just have to look." And I tell you that the infrastructure just isn't there in the "alternative" community to provide for the bulk of the nation. So, most people have no choice but to patronize the large corporations. The large corporations continue to siphon resources out of communities and into the hands of the few. And control of the resources means power over the politicians. > On the other hand, I am quite sure that all the rock-throwing > testosterone-soaked 21-year-old anarchists in their black bandannas > had a great time, and they will no doubt cherish memories of the > Battle of Quebec in twenty years when they're all stockbrokers and > lawyers and college professors. The violent protestors proved several things for us: Government is no longer of or for the pople, it is armed against them and fears them. The talks were clearly a show because the treaty was adopted en toto, even though the talks didn't really take place. I, for one, thank those who took direct action. You can march in the streets and shout in opposition all you want. The priorities and composition of the power structure are fixed. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #143 ********************************